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View Full Version : KCBS to Hide Team Bios Soon


Jeff_in_KC
03-02-2009, 06:45 PM
Got my March Bullsheet today and I'm reading where the KCBS will soon hide the team bios section to make it viewable to only members. While I don't feel real strongly about this, I do think it's significantly self-defeating. What if you went to your favorite football team's Web site and they hid the rosters and player bios from you? What if you went to the NASCAR site and couldn't read the driver bios unless you were a driver yourself? What fun would that be? Not saying many of our teams are as popular as a NASCAR driver but some are well-known through books and the Food Network. Why not let the public see their team bios? If the public goes to find out more about Ray because they've seen his books in Barnes & Noble, they're going to see just how wide-spread and popular this sport is. If potential sponsors take a look, they'll see just how popular this sport has become and maybe be more likely to support a team or a contest. ESPECIALLY when they see us teams putting our own sponsor names up there in our bios. It legitimizes claims they might be hearing from people wanting them to become a sponsor. Maybe someone from the general public is visiting a contest and meets some nice people when visiting with the teams... they go to find out more about them on the KCBS site and damn it, they can't get to the info! I just think it's wrong to hide team bios from the public. We've all put time and effort into promoting the sport. Why hide the sheer numbers that speak of our successes? Thoughts?

Plowboy
03-02-2009, 06:48 PM
I think posting bios should be for members in good standing only, but not access to view bios. I also think that you should be a KCBS member if you compete in a KCBS contest.

MilitantSquatter
03-02-2009, 06:55 PM
Jeff/Todd - you both make valid points and I agree fully..

I think the biggest loss is for the avg. team that is proud of their involvement and wants to share their enthusiam and team accomplishments with a co-worker, friend or family member etc.

I'll continue to hold my $35 membership fee renewal until I see KCBS consistently demonstrate they have the best interests of the general membership at the forefront.

KC_Bobby
03-02-2009, 06:55 PM
I agree with Todd - on both points.

Jeff_in_KC
03-02-2009, 06:59 PM
Absolutely, Todd! You don't get to post a bio unless you're a member, I agree with you and with KCBS on that. Makes total sense. But the public should still get to view those bios, regardless.... for all the reasons I stated AND what Vinny said... so their friends, family and neighbors can see them.

BruceB
03-02-2009, 07:13 PM
KCBS is a non-profit organization and as such if they are a tax exempt organization through the IRS either a 501(c)3 or a 501(c)7 there are potential issues relating to web sites and who has access to which parts of your web site, i.e. members only, general public, etc.

Having just finished dealing with the IRS over the past 11 months getting our Barbecue Association a tax exempt status, some of the issues that the IRS can raise is that the web site is more of a for profit venture as opposed to something set up purely for the benefit of associations members.

Don't know if this is the case in this particular instance with KCBS but it was something I encountered in our dealings with the government (try to remember their here to help LOL).

Merl
03-02-2009, 07:15 PM
I have not read the article and the BOD did discuss removing non members. An e-mail is being sent to all who are not members advising them in advance. I do not think the BOD considered where the Bios would be posted.

I have sent your comments to the BOD. I think they are valid and should be considered at the next BOD meeting. I will keep you advised.
Thank you for the thoughts.
Merl

Jacked UP BBQ
03-02-2009, 07:24 PM
I agree with Todd, only members should be allowed to have a team bio, but they should be available to the public to view.

Mike - CSBBBQ
03-02-2009, 07:28 PM
Thanks Merl. I agree the bios should only be for members in good standing and for the reasons mentioned also agree they should be viewable by the public. My .02.

I have not read the article and the BOD did discuss removing non members. An e-mail is being sent to all who are not members advising them in advance. I do not think the BOD considered where the Bios would be posted.

I have sent your comments to the BOD. I think they are valid and should be considered at the next BOD meeting. I will keep you advised.
Thank you for the thoughts.
Merl

Alexa RnQ
03-02-2009, 07:46 PM
I'm somewhat puzzled by this completely counterintuitive idea.

Of course the posting of team bios should be limited to members in good standing, but what on earth is the point of restricting their view? How does it promote the face of barbeque to the public to hide team profiles from them?

Of course it's easy enough for any team to maintain their own website, myspace page, etc., but those who proudly promote their affiliation to KCBS in those venues should have the courtesy returned, don't you think?

Just Pulin' Pork
03-02-2009, 07:51 PM
Make it simple, allow teams in good standing to post bios but keep it open to view to the public!

Buster Dog BBQ
03-02-2009, 08:37 PM
It would be cool if it also pulled in your KCBS Rankings on your bio page for members only. Of course, that would take years to do.

Plowboy
03-02-2009, 08:58 PM
It would be cool if it also pulled in your KCBS Rankings on your bio page for members only. Of course, that would take years to do.

Or link from rankings to the team bio. There's a lot of cool interactive stuff that would be easy to do with a good base of data and architecture.

U2CANQUE
03-02-2009, 09:11 PM
I think that the teams in "good standing" should be able to have their profile, and viewable by the public. It is something that I have used when approaching a company for sponsorship, verifying that I actually exist. I have used the pickled pig site as well, but, when I send out the proposal letter, I clearly state in the letter, "KCBS member in good standing" in the request letter...adding to the validity of my request. I may not support everything that happens in the board, or comes from the board, but, as long as I spend my time going to contests that are sanctioned by KCBS I will continue to support that by being a member, just as I am joining Mid-Atlantic for the same reason....wanting to support those who put on the contests....

ammoore
03-02-2009, 09:22 PM
I think posting bios should be for members in good standing only, but not access to view bios. I also think that you should be a KCBS member if you compete in a KCBS contest.


Being a member in good standing to maintain a bio on their web site is reasonable but I would disagree with having to be a KCBS member to compete. We already pay an average of $200 to enter + meat + expenses now you are saying...wait now you have to be a member in good standing. Where does it end?

Diva
03-02-2009, 09:36 PM
Being a member (in good standing) I was surprised that they put our team bio up without our having submitted it in the first place. We had one of the first bios up when they changed the website two years ago.

KC_Bobby
03-02-2009, 09:49 PM
I would disagree with having to be a KCBS member to compete. We already pay an average of $200 to enter + meat + expenses now you are saying...wait now you have to be a member in good standing. Where does it end?

It's $35 a year - less than $3 a month. Without the BBQ organizations, what kinds of BBQ comps would we be doing? The ones that have different rules and entries from comp to comp? No thanks, $35 is nothing for a constant set of standards and rules.

EarlyBird
03-02-2009, 10:11 PM
Being a member in good standing to maintain a bio on their web site is reasonable but I would disagree with having to be a KCBS member to compete. We already pay an average of $200 to enter + meat + expenses now you are saying...wait now you have to be a member in good standing. Where does it end?

I'm going to have disagree with you. I thing EVERY chief cook should be a member in good standing. KCBS is the sanctioning body. They make the rules and we follow them. They provide the reps at every contests to make sure the rules are followed. They provide the scoring system.
My family owned a bowling center. If you bowl in a league, EVERY bowler must join the ABC or WIBC before they can bowl. They are the the mens and womens sanctioning bodies. They make sure the rules are followed. I don't think KCBS would be out of line to make each chief cook be a member. For less than $3 a month you know what the rules are getting into a contest, you know the contest will be run fair, and you get the Bullsheet.

Chris Early
Early Bird BBQ

Plowboy
03-02-2009, 10:55 PM
Being a member (in good standing) I was surprised that they put our team bio up without our having submitted it in the first place. We had one of the first bios up when they changed the website two years ago.

Choice of responses...

1) Your reputation precedes you.

2) Everyone wants to be on the theSlabs.com bandwagon... <Cookshack Mod>

motoeric
03-02-2009, 11:10 PM
I disagree strenuously with the idea that you should have to be a member of the KCBS to compete in a KCBS event.

We should be LOWERING the barriers to compete, not raising them.

The KCBS is being compensated for their rules, regulations, reps and listing. That expense is borne by the organizer and is often passed along to the competitors in reduced payouts.

As an organizer if I was told that I had to turn away a team who was not a member of the KCBS, I would seriously reconsider having the event sanctioned in the first place.

Eric

thenewguy
03-02-2009, 11:27 PM
I would agree with that as well Eric.
KCBS gets their money. By making everyone be members it seems almost dictatorship-like.
I am a member, but I don't think that it should be shoved down my throat.

Plowboy
03-02-2009, 11:32 PM
I disagree strenuously with the idea that you should have to be a member of the KCBS to compete in a KCBS event.

We should be LOWERING the barriers to compete, not raising them.

The KCBS is being compensated for their rules, regulations, reps and listing. That expense is borne by the organizer and is often passed along to the competitors in reduced payouts.

As an organizer if I was told that I had to turn away a team who was not a member of the KCBS, I would seriously reconsider having the event sanctioned in the first place.

Eric

I would agree with that as well Eric.
KCBS gets their money. By making everyone be members it seems almost dictatorship-like.
I am a member, but I don't think that it should be shoved down my throat.

Maybe it should be shifted from a membership based organization then.

Nitrofly
03-02-2009, 11:33 PM
I disagree strenuously with the idea that you should have to be a member of the KCBS to compete in a KCBS event.

We should be LOWERING the barriers to compete, not raising them.

The KCBS is being compensated for their rules, regulations, reps and listing. That expense is borne by the organizer and is often passed along to the competitors in reduced payouts.

As an organizer if I was told that I had to turn away a team who was not a member of the KCBS, I would seriously reconsider having the event sanctioned in the first place.

Eric


Yes Yes Yes.... KCBS charter is to promote BBQ..
If they were to limit KCBS contest's to KCBS that
would not be promoting BAAAHHHBEQUE..
KCBS contests should not be a closed club.
If we want BBQ, BAAAHHHBEQUE to grow
we need to keep it open to everyone.

Sorry :icon_blush:

Plowboy
03-02-2009, 11:44 PM
KCBS does not run the contest does it? No, the promoter runs the contest. Does KCBS put up any money for the contest? No they take money from the promoter of the contest to have their services used.

I know the contest will be run fair because it is KCBS scantioned? Why do I know this?

KCBS runs the contest. The Promotor runs the event. KCBS provides reps who oversee and RUN the actual contest: entries, judging, scoring, providing results. These KCBS Reps use a common system across sanctioned contests and are trained in how to execute the process. Because of the process, rules, and reps, I feel more comfortable about the fairness of the contest than a non-sanctioned contest.

Bentley
03-02-2009, 11:53 PM
KCBS runs the contest. The Promotor runs the event. KCBS provides reps who oversee and RUN the actual contest: entries, judging, scoring, providing results. These KCBS Reps use a common system across sanctioned contests and are trained in who to execute the process. Because of the process, rules, and reps, I feel more comfortable about the fairness of the contest than a non-sanctioned contest.


I had a bad experience at a KCBS contest where the reps judged the contest. It was not fair, the contest was manipulated by the reps and it has left a bad tasted in my mouth since. I dont buy into the fact that just because it is run by KCBS it will be legitimized.

I pulled my original post because I have tried not to stir the pot, but you had already got to it. But I had to speak up on this.

Alexa RnQ
03-02-2009, 11:59 PM
The KCBS is being compensated for their rules, regulations, reps and listing. That expense is borne by the organizer and is often passed along to the competitors in reduced payouts.
This is a tired old non-argument. From http://www.kcbs.us/about_sanctioning.php : The base sanctioning fee -- let's say for a smallish contest, which presumably would be most affected -- is: 1-49 teams = $300 plus $12 per team. For a modest field of 35 teams, that's $720, or $20.57 per team. If it's costing me $1000 to pull out of the driveway, do we really think the prospect of $21 less in prize money is a serious deterrent?

We should be LOWERING the barriers to compete, not raising them.
The bar's not set terribly high.
$35 (which is an ANNUAL fee) = two contests' worth of lettuce and parsley.
A well-elucidated set of rules and scoring, fairly and consistently administered by unbiased reps = priceless.

Plowboy
03-03-2009, 12:15 AM
I had a bad experience at a KCBS contest where the reps judged the contest. It was not fair, the contest was manipulated by the reps and it has left a bad tasted in my mouth since. I dont buy into the fact that just because it is run by KCBS it will be legitimized.

I pulled my original post because I have tried not to stir the pot, but you had already got to it. But I had to speak up on this.

First, I think this is a fine and healthy discussion. No one is getting out of line and everyone is just voicing their opinion. One thing about a nationwide organization (I just wrote organization, but some aren't members.)... er... passion like KCBS Competition BBQ is that there are going to be differing opinions. Healthy dialog is a good thing. Eric's post definitely made me think about my position.

If there's been any pot stirring... I'm just too naive to see it.

With thousands and maybe tens of thousands of BBQ contests overseen by KCBS in close to three decades, I really think that what you experienced was at least isolated and maybe just perceived. (I'm not judging your or them, but I believe it has to be one of the two.)

I know too many reps to know how seriously they take their responsiblities. I've seen mistakes made at two contests out of the almost 100 contests I've competed at over the years. Not saying that there weren't more mistakes, but only two that I was aware of and the reps felt horrible.

EDIT: I'll also add that non-sanctioned contests are like a box of chocolates. I've seen rules created or changed once you arrive or even during the contest. I've seen organizers so focused on their public guests, because the contest was a big promotion for a business, that the actual entry times were shifted as we were turning in. I've seen awards given to the top 3 in each category and no additional results given because it was "too much of a burden".

Diva Q
03-03-2009, 05:55 AM
The bios should remain open to the general public. It is my understanding that the KCBS is required to remain not-for profit. Not sure why this exemption would be extended to the members. That would be an individual teams decision based on their business practices.



The bar's not set terribly high.
$35 (which is an ANNUAL fee) = two contests' worth of lettuce and parsley.
A well-elucidated set of rules and scoring, fairly and consistently administered by unbiased reps = priceless.

Absolutely. 100% agree with this.

YankeeBBQ
03-03-2009, 07:17 AM
All I know is there's too many damn Diva's in this thread. And no Bentley I'm not talking about you :twisted:

Jeff_in_KC
03-03-2009, 07:21 AM
I disagree strenuously with the idea that you should have to be a member of the KCBS to compete in a KCBS event.

We should be LOWERING the barriers to compete, not raising them.

The KCBS is being compensated for their rules, regulations, reps and listing. That expense is borne by the organizer and is often passed along to the competitors in reduced payouts.

As an organizer if I was told that I had to turn away a team who was not a member of the KCBS, I would seriously reconsider having the event sanctioned in the first place.

Eric

The KCBS is being compensated by paying members. Why the hell should non-paying members get the benefit of cooking with the same rules and systems I've paid for? Now you got me off-topic in my own thread. :mad:

Jeff_in_KC
03-03-2009, 07:22 AM
All I know is there's too many damn Diva's in this thread. And no Bentley I'm not talking about you :twisted:

Yeah but they all agree with me so I'm good with that! :wink:

YankeeBBQ
03-03-2009, 07:31 AM
The KCBS is being compensated by paying members. Why the hell should non-paying members get the benefit of cooking with the same rules and systems I've paid for? Now you got me off-topic in my own thread. :mad:

The organizer pays KCBS. The cooks pay the organizer. Now if KCBS offered the organizer a reduction in price for KCBS members on the $12 per team thing then the organizer could offer the KCBS teams a little discount instead of asking organizer's to artificially raise prices on non member teams like they tried last year.

DawgPhan
03-03-2009, 08:09 AM
Or link from rankings to the team bio. There's a lot of cool interactive stuff that would be easy to do with a good base of data and architecture.

You can currently create a profile @ nationalbbqrankings.com and link it to a team in the rankings. Then you can change the team name and edit the profile of that team.

We also have a lot of other features coming up that are only available to teams with an account. The account is free and we dont have any plans to hide them from anyone.

ique
03-03-2009, 08:26 AM
I disagree strenuously with the idea that you should have to be a member of the KCBS to compete in a KCBS event.

We should be LOWERING the barriers to compete, not raising them.

Eric

I can't believe a $35 membership fee is going to keep anyone from competing

Jeff_in_KC
03-03-2009, 09:28 AM
I can't believe a $35 membership fee is going to keep anyone from competing

No kidding! I would think people would WANT to help support the organization that promotes our opportunities to do what we enjoy. I might not like everything the KCBS does but I'm still proud to be involved and have a voice. If I ever quit being a member, I'd quit competing as well.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-03-2009, 09:45 AM
I just received the email and I am a paying member. I called and they told me that they sen the email to everyone.

BigBarry
03-03-2009, 09:49 AM
I have not read the article and the BOD did discuss removing non members. An e-mail is being sent to all who are not members advising them in advance. I do not think the BOD considered where the Bios would be posted.

I have sent your comments to the BOD. I think they are valid and should be considered at the next BOD meeting. I will keep you advised.
Thank you for the thoughts.
Merl

I just got the email and I am a paying member. MMA at it again. Quality marketing and promotion - you gotta love it.

I called the office and Ms. Hawkins is going to forward my email to the board and to MMA.

I am a paid member - why did I receive this? Duh.

Jeff_in_KC
03-03-2009, 09:52 AM
Read the email a little more closely. It does not say you received it because you are not a member! It says if you ARE a member, nothing will change and if you're NOT a member, your team bio will be removed within 45 days. They're just using that to announce their plans.

Bentley
03-03-2009, 10:05 AM
All I know is there's too many damn Diva's in this thread. And no Bentley I'm not talking about you :twisted:


I dont care who you are, thats funny!

Vince RnQ
03-03-2009, 10:25 AM
If you read the e-mail, you'll see that it says that the bios of teams that are not members will be taken down. It says nothing about whether or not you need to be a member to view the bios. The OP in this thread said that he read in the Bullsheet that you have to be a member to view them but I can't confirm this as we typically recieve our copies of the Bullsheet 10-14 days after most people. (Damn Pony Express)


Here are a few of my opinions on what is being discussed in this thread so far:

I am just fine with the concept of needing to be a KCBS member in good standing in order to post a team bio on the KCBS web site.
I think those bios should be visible to all who visit the KCBS web site regardless of membership status.
I would have no problem if KCBS, IBCA, MMA or any other sanctioning body required the head cook of a team to be a member of the organization in order to compete in a contest sanctioned by that body.
Organizers often raise the evil spector of "the cost of sanctioning" but rarely address the potential downside of not paying for sanctioning, an example of which might be not having teams enter the event because they can't be certain that any particular set of rules will be established and distributed to the teams, let alone enforced.
I know for a fact that DivaHerself, DivaQ and Diva are not the same person.
The jury is still out regarding Bentley's "diva" status.

Plowboy
03-03-2009, 11:15 AM
All I know is there's too many damn Diva's in this thread. And no Bentley I'm not talking about you :twisted:

Story of your life? :icon_shy

Roo-B-Q'N
03-03-2009, 11:17 AM
I believe those that got the letter and are members in good standing are a bit unimpressed with they way KCBS went out of their way to ensure members in good standing did not get tthe email.
I got the email, I feel all warm and fuzzy that I pay my dues and the organization doesn't have the courtesy of treating me like a valued member.
Hiding the bios or forcing membership on people is another "percieved" value from a membership in KCBS. I just wish MMA would actualy do something for KCBS and it's membership and not just give false benefits.
Off my soap box now I am going to use my 50 cent coupon for tabasco.

Roo-B-Q'N
03-03-2009, 11:19 AM
The KCBS is being compensated by paying members. Why the hell should non-paying members get the benefit of cooking with the same rules and systems I've paid for? Now you got me off-topic in my own thread. :mad:

KCBS is getting their money from non members at every contest. They are just double dipping in their membership. That is what you should be mad at.

Plowboy
03-03-2009, 11:22 AM
You can currently create a profile @ nationalbbqrankings.com and link it to a team in the rankings. Then you can change the team name and edit the profile of that team.

We also have a lot of other features coming up that are only available to teams with an account. The account is free and we dont have any plans to hide them from anyone.

But I often find errors. You are missing one of our contests: GC @ Burlington, KS.

EDIT: Should I follow Pork Pullin Plowboys #97 or Pork Pullin Plow Boys #128?

Plowboy
03-03-2009, 11:26 AM
I believe those that got the letter and are members in good standing are a bit unimpressed with they way KCBS went out of their way to ensure members in good standing did not get tthe email.
I got the email, I feel all warm and fuzzy that I pay my dues and the organization doesn't have the courtesy of treating me like a valued member.
Hiding the bios or forcing membership on people is another "percieved" value from a membership in KCBS. I just wish MMA would actualy do something for KCBS and it's membership and not just give false benefits.
Off my soap box now I am going to use my 50 cent coupon for tabasco.

My first question when I opened my email was, "How will they know who to turn off?" They couldn't even sort the email into members and non-members. There could have been two notices: your account will be shut down and your account will be fine.

Neal
03-03-2009, 12:01 PM
The KCBS is being compensated by paying members. Why the hell should non-paying members get the benefit of cooking with the same rules and systems I've paid for? Now you got me off-topic in my own thread. :mad:

Agree 100%, Jeff.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-03-2009, 12:08 PM
Limit who can enter KCBS events, and limit the success of comps. I do agree though we are fighting over $35, kind of silly.

KC_Bobby
03-03-2009, 12:17 PM
It is nearly 9.6 cents a day.

Lakeside Smoker
03-03-2009, 12:18 PM
Is this really what KCBS is worried about? Who's looking at the team bios. Really?

KC_Bobby
03-03-2009, 12:23 PM
I'm guessing it's a bandwith cost issue and they were looking for for a way to reduce that cost or even server issues without upsetting current membership. Plus, I do think that some teams with pages will join so the page stays up. It's really not much different then the cable company giving you extra channels for a while for free to get you hooked.

Plowboy
03-03-2009, 12:26 PM
I'm guessing it's a bandwith cost issue and they were looking for for a way to reduce that cost or even server issues without upsetting current membership. Plus, I do think that some teams with pages will join so the page stays up. It's really not much different then the cable company giving you extra channels for a while for free to get you hooked.

I think it is more about differentiating value for members. There's not enough data there for this to be an IT cost issue.

Just Pulin' Pork
03-03-2009, 12:47 PM
With the risk of stirring the pot where does the $35 go? I have no problem spending it and to be honest don't mind paying to be a memeber, just curious to where all this money goes.

gordo
03-03-2009, 12:48 PM
Yep..gota email to that effect today..

I was a member, at one time, but didnt renew...
Now I just watch and laugh at the going ons from the sideline...

Bet they change the secret hand shake also..:mrgreen:

Jacked UP BBQ
03-03-2009, 12:52 PM
With the risk of stirring the pot where does the $35 go? I have no problem spending it and to be honest don't mind paying to be a memeber, just curious to where all this money goes.

I would assume it goes to the expenses of running the business end of things.

LindaM
03-03-2009, 01:15 PM
I had a bad experience at a KCBS contest where the reps judged the contest. It was not fair, the contest was manipulated by the reps and it has left a bad tasted in my mouth since. I dont buy into the fact that just because it is run by KCBS it will be legitimized.

I pulled my original post because I have tried not to stir the pot, but you had already got to it. But I had to speak up on this.

Was this a recent contest? If so you need to contact KCBS and let them know. As a board member I want to know if contests are being mishandled.

Thanks

Jorge
03-03-2009, 01:19 PM
Brrrrrrr, looks like six more weeks of winter:shock::wink:

Scottie
03-03-2009, 01:22 PM
Heck no. Some of our winters will be over next weekend!!! Can't get here soon enough!!!!

U2CANQUE
03-03-2009, 01:28 PM
yeah, those darn folks heading to Little Rock....ugh, still waiting for April for Kings Mtn.,......but, love the conversations.....discussions......
Some of our winters will be over next weekend!!!

Bentley
03-03-2009, 01:38 PM
Was this a recent contest? If so you need to contact KCBS and let them know. As a board member I want to know if contests are being mishandled.

Thanks

Should it matter if it was recent or not? Do improprieties have an experation date?

It was not. It was October of 2003. I contacted KCBS at the time, they choose not to respond to my inquries.

At the risk of runinning my Diva status, I will leave it at that. You are the 1st person in 6 years to even care, or ask about it.

LindaM
03-03-2009, 01:39 PM
I just got the email and I am a paying member. MMA at it again. Quality marketing and promotion - you gotta love it.

I called the office and Ms. Hawkins is going to forward my email to the board and to MMA.

I am a paid member - why did I receive this? Duh.

I believe the email went to all Team BIO posters. If you are a member your bio will remain.
Not sure what they are referring to as the members only. WE did not approve that

willkat98
03-03-2009, 01:54 PM
Brrrrrrr, looks like six more weeks of winter:shock::wink:

Jorge

If you put your street address in your KCBS bio, I'm sure paid memberships will skyrocket!

Just saying...

Just Pulin' Pork
03-03-2009, 02:41 PM
I would assume it goes to the expenses of running the business end of things.

I can see that part of it but if lets do the math, lets say there are 10,000 members at $35 per member that is $350,000. 20,000 members is $700 G. I find it very hard to believe it costs that much to run this organanization. I may be wrong. This is simply out of curiosity why I am asking. I never really thought about until I saw this post.

DawgPhan
03-03-2009, 02:58 PM
But I often find errors. You are missing one of our contests: GC @ Burlington, KS.

EDIT: Should I follow Pork Pullin Plowboys #97 or Pork Pullin Plow Boys #128?

Sorry about that. I am running the rankings right now and it should be done in a probably 20 minutes or so. I combined all the results to pork Pullin Plowboys with no space and added the new contest.

If you create a login and link it to pork pullin plowboys you can change the name in the database whenever you like to whatever you like.

To link your login to a team click on your login in the upper right hand corner of the page. Then you can enter a team that you would like to be linked to. That sends me an email, I approve the link and then you become the creator of that team. You can have more than one person on a team, but only 1 creator. We are also allowing people to be members without being connected to a team, hence the team link being on the profile page after you create your account instead of forcing it at the start.

Just thought that I would post since there seems to be some confusion. Let me know if you have any questions.

DawgPhan
03-03-2009, 03:00 PM
I can see that part of it but if lets do the math, lets say there are 10,000 members at $35 per member that is $350,000. 20,000 members is $700 G. I find it very hard to believe it costs that much to run this organanization. I may be wrong. This is simply out of curiosity why I am asking. I never really thought about until I saw this post.


I think that you would be surprised as too what it really costs to run a large organization. Seems to me that I also remember that sanctioning fees are a large part of their budget with dues making up just 30% or so. But I could be wrong on that number.

Jacked UP BBQ
03-03-2009, 03:05 PM
I would assume just the labor would take a third of that. The rent, utilities, insurance, there is a hell of a lot expenses. My employees think I'm rich, in fact that is not the case. I am dead broke!!!!!

Jeff_in_KC
03-03-2009, 03:23 PM
The OP in this thread said that he read in the Bullsheet that you have to be a member to view them but I can't confirm this as we typically recieve our copies of the Bullsheet 10-14 days after most people. (Damn Pony Express)

I am the OP and I can confirm this. :wink:

butt head
03-03-2009, 03:36 PM
I just received the email and I am a paying member. I called and they told me that they sen the email to everyone.
no they did'nt

Jeff_in_KC
03-03-2009, 03:41 PM
The OP in this thread said that he read in the Bullsheet that you have to be a member to view them but I can't confirm this as we typically recieve our copies of the Bullsheet 10-14 days after most people. (Damn Pony Express)

I am the OP and I can confirm this. :wink:


I can see that part of it but if lets do the math, lets say there are 10,000 members at $35 per member that is $350,000. 20,000 members is $700 G. I find it very hard to believe it costs that much to run this organanization. I may be wrong. This is simply out of curiosity why I am asking. I never really thought about until I saw this post.

Jon, according to the KCBS Web site, there are a little over 8,000 KCBS members worldwide.

Should it matter if it was recent or not? Do improprieties have an experation date?

At the risk of runinning my Diva status, I will leave it at that. You are the 1st person in 6 years to even care, or ask about it.

I agree that improprieties should not have a "stature of limitations" but come on man, in fairness to Linda, she was not on the board six years ago for her to be able to show an interest to you. The KCBS is an evolving organization. What happened back in those days might be taken very seriously these days.

In regards to all these emails you guys are melting down over, why would you not just be happy they're letting you know the situation? They saved a little time by sending ONE email to everyone. Basically it tells us all that if you are not a member, your bio goes bye-bye. If you are a member, it does not. Why does it matter that you, as a member got one? I am one of the first in line to raise a stink if I think something is wrong but this email doesn't bother me! No one ever suggested in the first place that as a member, you would receive no notification email. I think the fact we as members were kept in the loop is a good thing. Someone mentioned the technology of being able to divide the email list between members and non-members. Well, the technology sits with MMA and this email came from KCBS. IMO, KCBS just saved a little bit on labor costs by only sending one email. Miniscule, I know but every little bit helps these days. I guess I look at it as though they're trying to be good stewards with my membership fees.

no they did'nt

Check your spam folder...

Jacked UP BBQ
03-03-2009, 03:41 PM
no they did'nt

They told me that Norristown, PA is no longer welcome to the KCBS:lol:

butt head
03-03-2009, 03:43 PM
They told me that Norristown, PA is no longer welcome to the KCBS:lol:
works for me- i'm gona miss my $3 a copy bullsheet

Just Pulin' Pork
03-03-2009, 03:51 PM
Jon, according to the KCBS Web site, there are a little over 8,000 KCBS members worldwide.



Jeff thanks for the info.

Bentley
03-03-2009, 04:00 PM
in fairness to Linda, she was not on the board six years ago for her to be able to show an interest to you.

If you thought I was slamming Linda, I was not. She is the 1st person from KCBS, and this as many of you know, is not my 1st post on this subject, to ever have the fortitude to ask...I was going to put in some choice comments here, but I said I would let it go.

WineMaster
03-03-2009, 04:08 PM
I would gladly become a member, But see absolutely no value in the membership.

Jorge
03-03-2009, 04:41 PM
I'm now convinced that some folks would debate to the death over whether the earth was round or flat.

Alexa RnQ
03-03-2009, 04:46 PM
I guess I'm one of those who sees value in membership beyond "What's in it for me?"

I've belonged to a number of nonprofit educational associations over the years, solely because I saw fit to support organizations representing my hobbies and interests. Obviously I didn't see every penny back in trade from the Pasadena Rose Society at $35 a year (back in the dark ages when a buck was worth something) or the American Rose Society at $50 a year, but I DID see the value in supporting local and national organizations that were a venue for sharing of interest and information with others, that created and administered competition structures, and that presented an informative interface with the general public.

Never once in those years did I hear people proudly announcing that they would not be members of the organizations in whose shows they were participating and taking advantage, nor did I hear relentless nickel-and-diming about whether this month's issue or entry tag was "worth it" or not. FFS.

Maybe times are different, but I was under the impression that if one had an interest in something, or wished to engage in activities with others, or wished to promote something and encourage others in similar interests, that one would step a little outside of the narrow zone of self-interest.

< /soapbox>

Bentley
03-03-2009, 05:12 PM
Never once in those years did I hear people proudly announcing that they would not be members of the organizations in whose shows they were participating and taking advantage

I am not sure how to interperate this. It sounds to me you are saying that because a contest is KCBS sanctioned they are putting it on? The same as the Rose committee running the Tournament of Roses?

I don’t see a correlation between a band being invited to participate in the Rose parade and me as a non-member team competing in a KCBS sanctioned event.

I bet you dont see to many band or float people bad mouthing the tourny, well maybe after it is over and they had a bad experience...

Finney
03-03-2009, 05:14 PM
The email I got said that non-member bios would be removed.
It said nothing about having to be a member to see the bios.

So... my assumption would be... everyone will still be able to see them. :wink:

WineMaster
03-03-2009, 05:17 PM
I guess I'm one of those who sees value in membership beyond "What's in it for me?"

I've belonged to a number of nonprofit educational associations over the years, solely because I saw fit to support organizations representing my hobbies and interests. Obviously I didn't see every penny back in trade from the Pasadena Rose Society at $35 a year (back in the dark ages when a buck was worth something) or the American Rose Society at $50 a year, but I DID see the value in supporting local and national organizations that were a venue for sharing of interest and information with others, that created and administered competition structures, and that presented an informative interface with the general public.

Never once in those years did I hear people proudly announcing that they would not be members of the organizations in whose shows they were participating and taking advantage, nor did I hear relentless nickel-and-diming about whether this month's issue or entry tag was "worth it" or not. FFS.

Maybe times are different, but I was under the impression that if one had an interest in something, or wished to engage in activities with others, or wished to promote something and encourage others in similar interests, that one would step a little outside of the narrow zone of self-interest.

< /soapbox>

Two thoughts,
I wonder what the percentage would be of time that everyone that has posted in this thread, is spent in THIS forum verses the KCBS website????????
In looking into getting a event KCBS sanctioned event in our town, do you honestly think that KCBS is less about being a Profitable business and more about Promoting the past-time we all love?

Alexa RnQ
03-03-2009, 05:19 PM
I am not sure how to interperate this. It sounds to me you are saying that because a contest is KCBS sanctioned they are putting it on? The same as the Rose committee running the Tournament of Roses?

I don’t see a correlation between a band being invited to participate in the Rose parade and me as a non-member team competing in a KCBS sanctioned event.

I bet you dont see to many band or float people bad mouthing the tourny, well maybe after it is over and they had a bad experience...

No, that is not the parallel drawn at all. The Pasadena Rose Society and American Rose Society are nonprofit educational organizations that are not in any way affiliated with the Tournament of Roses.

An individual would participate in a rose show put on by a local organization, using the ARS rose-show format and judges, in exactly the same way an individual BBQ team competes in a locally-organized contest which utilizes KCBS format and judges.

And I don't believe it's terribly difficult to understand that in both circumstances, the rose exhibitor or BBQ contestant derives immediate benefit from the contest and judging structure provided by the national organization. To take advantage of those benefits on solely an immediate play-for-pay basis without supporting the organization, and to churlishly boast of it to boot, was not characteristic of that demographic. Much the contrary -- most of those I knew retained membership in several local organizations as well as the national.

Plowboy
03-03-2009, 05:34 PM
I'm now convinced that some folks would debate to the death over whether the earth was round or flat.

Note sure if word has spread to Texas yet, Jorge. Round.

Buster Dog BBQ
03-03-2009, 06:06 PM
Are any of you a member of your state's or another BBQ organization but not KCBS? Do you get anything more out of that? I don't mind paying money to the Iowa BBQ Society because I see the effort that goes into the events we do, even if I am not directly involved. The same goes for KCBS. You may not see direct benefit you think you need, but the judging,contest, etc are a result of your dues.

Jorge
03-03-2009, 06:16 PM
Note sure if word has spread to Texas yet, Jorge. Round.

Dude, I still haven't figured out 3.2% beer in Oklahoma. You expect me to wrap my mind around that concept?

WineMaster
03-03-2009, 06:20 PM
Are any of you a member of your state's or another BBQ organization but not KCBS? Do you get anything more out of that? I don't mind paying money to the Iowa BBQ Society because I see the effort that goes into the events we do, even if I am not directly involved. The same goes for KCBS. You may not see direct benefit you think you need, but the judging,contest, etc are a result of your dues.

I have to diagree.
As an organizer you PAY and Reimburse for everything the KCBS does. You put them up in hotels pay milage. Its not just a bunch of people donating there time.

Please let me know if Im wrong here.

Bentley
03-03-2009, 06:31 PM
No, that is not the parallel drawn at all. The Pasadena Rose Society and American Rose Society


Sorry for the misinterpritation, saw Pasadena and Rose and I was off to the races!

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
03-03-2009, 07:36 PM
just an FYI...I just joined, heck the whole family just did. I did it because I love bbq and I love bbq competitions. with out some one in charge the whole thing would be plunged into chaos. I didnt join because of bios or discounts. I joined because of the wonderful reps like Linda M and John B. who put so much effort into making things "fair" that I have met. I joined for my fellow Brethren so that I may add my voice and my vote.

thanks for all of you debate! I now tip one back for all of you!!!

Sal

and yes when asked I now can say I am a member :eek:

Mike - CSBBBQ
03-03-2009, 07:48 PM
just an FYI...I just joined, heck the whole family just did. I did it because I love bbq and I love bbq competitions. with out some one in charge the whole thing would be plunged into chaos. I didnt join because of bios or discounts. I joined because of the wonderful reps like Linda M and John B. who put so much effort into making things "fair" that I have met. I joined for my fellow Brethren so that I may add my voice and my vote.

thanks for all of you debate! I now tip one back for all of you!!!

Sal

and yes when asked I now can say I am a member :eek:

I hear you Sal and agree. Same reason I joined MABBQA. There are great folks in all organizations and there are those that don't like the organizations. Isn't great we live in a country where you get to choose what you want to do and are allowed to voice your opinion either way:-P There are pros and cons to almost everything and I believe it is good for all thoughts to be heard IMO.

Remember to thank a Vet:-D

Jacked UP BBQ
03-03-2009, 07:56 PM
I just got back and seen this thread still going strong.... WOW. I say join if you want, and don't if you don't. I don't get to put my golf stats on the PGA site why if not a member should I get KCBS privelages. I am a member and proud to get the BULLSHEET.

Buster Dog BBQ
03-03-2009, 09:11 PM
[/color]

I have to diagree.
As an organizer you PAY and Reimburse for everything the KCBS does. You put them up in hotels pay milage. Its not just a bunch of people donating there time.

Please let me know if Im wrong here.
I have never been involved from the organizer standpoint. But from a cooking standpoint I like knowing there is to be a consistency although I don't always agree with the judges.

willkat98
03-03-2009, 09:47 PM
I'm now convinced that some folks would debate to the death over whether the earth was round or flat.

Flat!

Proof: Ice is sold in sheets in the East

Discussion over

Jeff_in_KC
03-03-2009, 11:47 PM
I would gladly become a member, But see absolutely no value in the membership.

Do you not seek sponsors? Doesn't being a member of a professional sanctioning body and having a profile there give you legitimacy when approaching them? I know it does us.

Jeff_in_KC
03-03-2009, 11:49 PM
I guess I'm one of those who sees value in membership beyond "What's in it for me?"

I've belonged to a number of nonprofit educational associations over the years, solely because I saw fit to support organizations representing my hobbies and interests. Obviously I didn't see every penny back in trade from the Pasadena Rose Society at $35 a year (back in the dark ages when a buck was worth something) or the American Rose Society at $50 a year, but I DID see the value in supporting local and national organizations that were a venue for sharing of interest and information with others, that created and administered competition structures, and that presented an informative interface with the general public.

Never once in those years did I hear people proudly announcing that they would not be members of the organizations in whose shows they were participating and taking advantage, nor did I hear relentless nickel-and-diming about whether this month's issue or entry tag was "worth it" or not. FFS.

Maybe times are different, but I was under the impression that if one had an interest in something, or wished to engage in activities with others, or wished to promote something and encourage others in similar interests, that one would step a little outside of the narrow zone of self-interest.

< /soapbox>

I wish we had one of those little clapping smileys because I'd give you a few right here in this spot! :wink:

Jeff_in_KC
03-04-2009, 12:07 AM
In looking into getting a event KCBS sanctioned event in our town, do you honestly think that KCBS is less about being a Profitable business and more about Promoting the past-time we all love?

Honestly, aside from a few people, one of whom is THANKFULLY gone from the board, yes I do. I know a few board members. I personally know Carolyn Wells. I know, respect and am close friends with some reps. Aside from the few I mentioned, every one of these people are about promoting BBQ and the friendships that make it so special! So basically, everyone that I personally know who is part of the KCBS has promoting the BBQ past-time as goal #1.

Look, we're not always gonna agree with the governing bodies of anything we're involved with emotionally. But that doesn't mean we're gonna pack up and leave the country if it's the United States we're talking about. Why load up your BBQ toys and go home just because you don't agree with everything KCBS does. Personally, I think this is getting insane! Last year, we were all afraid KCBS was going to bow down to MMA Marketing and that hasn't happened. So now, the WORST thing that seems to be happening is that KCBS sent you out an email saying if you weren't a member, you couldn't have a team bio on the Web site. Or you got an email you feel that you shouldn't have gotten. Or maybe you just don't see the value in being a member of an organization that makes it possible for you to compete weekly if you want, in contests all across the country using the same rules, criteria and computer systems and requires contest organizers to pay you certain amounts... an organization that spends thousands each year promoting barbeque so that you'll have contests to attend in the first place. Because let's be honest here... if KCBS didn't promote the "sport" like it has, who would go? Who would sponsor them so you can get paid? Who would care? How many times do you see a list of organized NON-sanctioned events for you to attend? And if you do, go to one, you never know under what set of rules you'll be competing.

Face it, if you are even remotely interested in competition barbeque (or any BBQ for that matter), the KCBS is still a GREAT value at $35. It's just a little difficult to see that through all the complaint pollution out there.

Jeff_in_KC
03-04-2009, 12:11 AM
The email I got said that non-member bios would be removed.
It said nothing about having to be a member to see the bios.

So... my assumption would be... everyone will still be able to see them. :wink:

Wasn't in the email... it was in the Bullsheet. March, 2009, page 10, lower right corner of the page.

WineMaster
03-04-2009, 11:22 AM
Do you not seek sponsors? Doesn't being a member of a professional sanctioning body and having a profile there give you legitimacy when approaching them? I know it does us.

Jeff, Sponsorship with me is not an issue in the least. But aside from that.
I DO think that the KCBS is a organization that is without question is needed to oversee and govern the rules and integrity of BBQ competitions across the U.S. I am sure that I will join the Organization prior to May 15th and it has absolutely nothing to do with $ 35.00. The only point I was trying to get out there is that your $ 35.00 dues really has nothing to do with the events that run on a weekly basis. ALL of that money is put up IN ADVANCE by the person holding the competition. KCBS does not just donate their time to run events.

Dan

Jeff_in_KC
03-04-2009, 11:39 AM
Jeff, Sponsorship with me is not an issue in the least. But aside from that.
I DO think that the KCBS is a organization that is without question is needed to oversee and govern the rules and integrity of BBQ competitions across the U.S. I am sure that I will join the Organization prior to May 15th and it has absolutely nothing to do with $ 35.00. The only point I was trying to get out there is that your $ 35.00 dues really has nothing to do with the events that run on a weekly basis. ALL of that money is put up IN ADVANCE by the person holding the competition. KCBS does not just donate their time to run events.

Dan

Dan, IMO, you're underestimating the cost involved. I am guessing it costs KCBS more than the $300 and $12 per team they collect for events for everything they have into it. I do not know the entire breakdown of KCBS's cost to sanction a single event but I'm guessing if you're adding in everything, you'll surpass that small amount of cash. That means funds need to come from other places as well... such as our membership fees.

WineMaster
03-04-2009, 12:16 PM
Dan, IMO, you're underestimating the cost involved. I am guessing it costs KCBS more than the $300 and $12 per team they collect for events for everything they have into it. I do not know the entire breakdown of KCBS's cost to sanction a single event but I'm guessing if you're adding in everything, you'll surpass that small amount of cash. That means funds need to come from other places as well... such as our membership fees.
Jeff, The 300 Dollar is just the MINIMUM you can send with your Application. ALL other fees owed to the KCBS and all other money payed must be payed in full at the conclution of the event the day of the event.
If I can start an event for 300 and charge the teams 12 I would hold one every weekend.

NO FUNDS COME FROM PEOPLES DUES TO HELP IN THE COST OF RUNNING A COMP

Click the KCBS tab,go to Downloads. then sanction request form read for yourself.

Jeff_in_KC
03-04-2009, 01:20 PM
Jeff, The 300 Dollar is just the MINIMUM you can send with your Application. ALL other fees owed to the KCBS and all other money payed must be payed in full at the conclution of the event the day of the event.
If I can start an event for 300 and charge the teams 12 I would hold one every weekend.

I'm an organizer so I'm aware of that and that you pay the $12... you don't charge teams extra for it. Still, even with the $900 KCBS pulls in for a 50 team event, if you add in all business costs associated with sanctioning, it's more than $900. Computers, software, printers, reps mileage and expenses, contest promotion (Web site, Bullsheet printing, etc.)... more than $900 with all of it!

WineMaster
03-04-2009, 01:44 PM
I'm an organizer so I'm aware of that and that you pay the $12... you don't charge teams extra for it. Still, even with the $900 KCBS pulls in for a 50 team event, if you add in all business costs associated with sanctioning, it's more than $900. Computers, software, printers, reps mileage and expenses, contest promotion (Web site, Bullsheet printing, etc.)... more than $900 with all of it!
OK your right. Im sorry.
Dan

Bentley
03-04-2009, 01:54 PM
Computers, software, printers, reps mileage and expenses, contest promotion (Web site, Bullsheet printing, etc.)... more than $900 with all of it!

KCBS pays for Reps mileage and expenses at events...I did not know that!

Scottie
03-04-2009, 02:36 PM
KCBS pays?? I think the actual contest pays the reps don't they? Or at least covers their expenses and hotels.

Jorge
03-04-2009, 02:38 PM
KCBS pays?? I think the actual contest pays the reps don't they? Or at least covers their expenses and hotels.

That was my understanding.

U2CANQUE
03-04-2009, 02:42 PM
differnece between the contest paying reps, and what KCBS spends, the part of the contest application that talks about KCBS publicity....if the event has KCBS publicity, that is not part of the contest organizers responsibility.....that is out of the the $900 KCBS pulls in for a 50 team event...

Scottie
03-04-2009, 02:42 PM
While I am no organizer... From my dealings with contests, that is how I was told that the reps are taken care of...

Maybe we could ask on the organizer forum? Oh that's right... :icon_shy

BigBarry
03-04-2009, 02:43 PM
That was my understanding.


Actually, the contest organizers paid for hotels, travel, etc., computer paper, printing, all associated materials (plates, water, etc.) for judging. I think the reps use their own computers with the software for the judging. Saville 2007/2008.

Jeff_in_KC
03-04-2009, 03:33 PM
I did not write the check last year. Aimee did but from the way I was told, the check was made out to KCBS and the KCBS reimburses the reps for their expenses. If that's not the way it actually is, I will stand corrected. Still... I'd like to talk to KCBS and find out exactly what they figure it costs them to sanction one contest (all sanctioning and marketing costs for one year, divided by the number of contests). I still would guess it's going to take more than they get for most contests from sanctioning fees. Then again, it may be close because i'd be surprised if they'd intentionally set sanctioning fees much under what it costs to sanction. That wouldn't make very good business sense.

U2CANQUE
03-04-2009, 03:35 PM
Maybe we could ask on the organizer forum? Oh that's right... :icon_shy

a much needed coffee out the nose laugh there

Plowboy
03-04-2009, 03:37 PM
a much needed coffee out the nose laugh there

Nettie Pot = The nasal enema. :icon_sick

U2CANQUE
03-04-2009, 03:49 PM
nice, scary part, have one....well, ok, 2, one for the road as well....