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View Full Version : ICBA comp in KCBS territory...


Jeff Hughes
02-07-2009, 06:27 PM
In March, I am competing in my first ICBA contest here in Tulsa. This is big time KCBS territory around here.

I am wondering what I can and should do to remain within the rules, but still appeal to the local palate.

For example, I typically glaze my brisket slices after slicing. Can or would you glaze and then pop back in the cooker for a minute or two in a pan to "cook" some more?

No pork, but I'd love any tips that you have on brisket, chicken, and ribs...

thillin
02-07-2009, 06:55 PM
KCBS is having one in the Ft Worth area this year. So we're even.:biggrin:

Jeff Hughes
02-07-2009, 07:07 PM
KCBS is having one in the Ft Worth area this year. So we're even.:biggrin:

So, are you gonna cook candied thighs?

Butcher BBQ
02-07-2009, 08:30 PM
Hey Jeff were in that also. It will be good to see everyone again. Maybe we can get a good crowd and they will host more of these around here.

Jeff Hughes
02-07-2009, 08:41 PM
It sounds like there is going to be a good crowd. It's always cool to have a comp 3 miles from the house...

Plenty of room for your rig, it's a decent venue...

Best of luck in Great Bend, see you soon...

ThomEmery
02-07-2009, 09:36 PM
"Cooked on" is no longer the measure in IBCA comps
As the boxes are turned in they are opened and inspected for
"Pooling of Sauce" in the box
The sauce can not run off the meat onto the "Texas Lettuce"
Thats what the West Coasters call the Foil square

Jeff Hughes
02-07-2009, 09:45 PM
Thanks, that helps a lot...

Dustaway
02-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Meats may be cooked with sauces and/or other liquids, but once the cooking is complete, sauces and/or liquids cannot be added. NO PUDDLING IN BOTTOM OF TRAY.

Jeff you add your own interpretation as to when cooking is complete?

thillin
02-08-2009, 02:17 PM
So, are you gonna cook candied thighs?

I'm use to cutting a chicken in half and being done. Don't know if I can handle trimming thighs. Then do I cook BB instead of spares, etc.. Oh, and the greens that have to be in the box.

But it's on my calendar as a maybe, it's close to the house and my sponsor will cover it.

Jorge
02-08-2009, 02:53 PM
I'm use to cutting a chicken in half and being done. Don't know if I can handle trimming thighs. Then do I cook BB instead of spares, etc.. Oh, and the greens that have to be in the box.

But it's on my calendar as a maybe, it's close to the house and my sponsor will cover it.

Give me a call next week:wink:

Jeff Hughes
02-08-2009, 04:46 PM
Meats may be cooked with sauces and/or other liquids, but once the cooking is complete, sauces and/or liquids cannot be added. NO PUDDLING IN BOTTOM OF TRAY.

Jeff you add your own interpretation as to when cooking is complete?


No need for the vibe...

This is my first ICBA comp, I know how to read the rules(and I get the no puddling aspect), but I have no idea how they are to be interpreted. I don't care. I just want to practice, cook, and compete in a way that will not get me DQ'd. I'm looking for some guidance, not attitude.

Tom's post indicates that cooked on sauce is not longer the standard. Your post indicates it is.

Help a bro out, don't yell at me with a copy and paste of the rules...

Jeff Hughes
02-08-2009, 04:48 PM
I'm use to cutting a chicken in half and being done. Don't know if I can handle trimming thighs. Then do I cook BB instead of spares, etc.. Oh, and the greens that have to be in the box.

But it's on my calendar as a maybe, it's close to the house and my sponsor will cover it.

Actually, greens are not a requirement...

And spares will be fine...

ThomEmery
02-08-2009, 05:11 PM
A conversation with the Head Judge
would be very helpful

Alexa RnQ
02-08-2009, 05:16 PM
That's terribly interesting. Is it a rule, or isn't it? Is it up to the interpretation of the head judge at that event?

With an IBCA contest upcoming, I'd like to know how creative the prevailing interpretation is, before we show up as "dead money".

CajunSmoker
02-08-2009, 05:29 PM
Down here it means don't sauce after you remove the meat from the cooker for the last time. That doesn't mean you can't cook, pull the meat, slice it and put it back on the smoker and add sauce. It just means the last step before closing the box can't be adding sauce to the meat. At least that is what the last IBCA rep told me.

I have more problem with making sure my ribs are facing the right direction and that my brisket slices are uniform enough for the judges than I do with the sauce issue.

IBCA's are fun to cook though and I plan on doing a few this year:-D

Jeff Hughes
02-08-2009, 06:26 PM
Down here it means don't sauce after you remove the meat from the cooker for the last time. That doesn't mean you can't cook, pull the meat, slice it and put it back on the smoker and add sauce. It just means the last step before closing the box can't be adding sauce to the meat. At least that is what the last IBCA rep told me.



That's how I read it, but like I said, I really don't know...

Jeff Hughes
02-08-2009, 06:27 PM
A conversation with the Head Judge
would be very helpful

I'll call him tomorrow...

Dustaway
02-08-2009, 09:03 PM
No need for the vibe...

This is my first ICBA comp, I know how to read the rules(and I get the no puddling aspect), but I have no idea how they are to be interpreted. I don't care. I just want to practice, cook, and compete in a way that will not get me DQ'd. I'm looking for some guidance, not attitude.

Tom's post indicates that cooked on sauce is not longer the standard. Your post indicates it is.

Help a bro out, don't yell at me with a copy and paste of the rules...

Was not trying to give an attitude sorry if I upset you I simply cut and pasted the rules straight from the IBCA site?

and what cajunsmoker said is true about the the sauce the whole darn thing is left up to the head judge and it stinks because of the simple phrase of "but once the cooking is complete" like Tom sugested call the head judge also not to start trouble but you might want to ask the same question at the head cook's meeting that day just to make sure everybody is on the same page.

Jeff Hughes
02-09-2009, 08:16 AM
Was not trying to give an attitude sorry if I upset you I simply cut and pasted the rules straight from the IBCA site?

and what cajunsmoker said is true about the the sauce the whole darn thing is left up to the head judge and it stinks because of the simple phrase of "but once the cooking is complete" like Tom sugested call the head judge also not to start trouble but you might want to ask the same question at the head cook's meeting that day just to make sure everybody is on the same page.

I am certainly not upset, we're are talking about BBQ, not world peace...

When you put something in all caps it is yelling. You also displayed a condescending attitude with your implication that I was trying to interpret the rules in my own way.

It seems clear that the rules are not clear, and I'll be contacting the head judge later today...

Brian in So Cal
02-09-2009, 09:28 PM
I cook the chicken and ribs for our team in IBCA. One thing I found with the chicken (also been told) When you cut the chicken in half use the one side with the backbone still on it. It stands up a little better. My butcher can split the backbone so sometimes I have him do it.

Hope that helps some.

Brian in So Cal
02-09-2009, 09:30 PM
Thom sets up several of these IBCA comps each year in Cali, and these are a lot of fun to do.

Bentley
02-09-2009, 09:37 PM
When you put something in all caps it is yelling.

I was looking at the IBCA rules last week for last weekends event.

Dustaway just cut and paste, that is the way it is on the IBCA webs site...LOL

Countryhb
02-09-2009, 09:41 PM
This is one of the few times you will ever hear this come out of my mouth..."Listen to Thom on this". We Left Coasters compete in quite a few IBCAs put together by Thom and he does a great job...except for explaining in full thoughts...:)

ThomEmery
02-09-2009, 09:56 PM
HUH what you say?

C Rocke
02-09-2009, 10:00 PM
HUH what you say?


That's about as full a thought as you'll get...

ThomEmery
02-09-2009, 10:22 PM
Always got to go one more dont ya sweetie?

Jeff Hughes
02-09-2009, 10:24 PM
I cook the chicken and ribs for our team in IBCA. One thing I found with the chicken (also been told) When you cut the chicken in half use the one side with the backbone still on it. It stands up a little better. My butcher can split the backbone so sometimes I have him do it.

Hope that helps some.

Yes, that helps...

Thank You...

ThomEmery
02-09-2009, 10:31 PM
You can remove the Backbone if the Bird will be difficult to fit in the box
The smallest Chicken you can find is a best bet
Cornish Game Hens are not legal in these contests

tony76248
02-10-2009, 08:39 AM
Oh Brudder.......

ya'll are making it tough here.....

Cook two half chickens, turn in the best half (the joke here is that we always turn in the wrong half) unless it is a large event and then you need to turn in both halves. I suggest that you completely remove the backbone (it sits lower in the tray), cook the chicken, add sauce at the end if you use sauce. Most folks will try to cook it on, but it has a tendency to pool up in the valley under the wing. Don't use too much sauce or it will pool into the tray. If it does pool, use a paper towel to sop it up prior to turn in. It isn't rocket science......

In reality, the rules governing judging allow the judges to taste one bite of the chicken (actually all meats) and to be fair, you should taste the same type meat on all chickens, therefore if you start with dark meat, stick to it for all the entries.

I have done pretty well with chickens over the last few years in IBCA. Feel free to email me or you can call me if you have any questions about any of the categories.

Also remember that you do not need to sauce brisket for it to be good. Do not sauce the back side of your brisket or you will be DQ'd. If your brisket isn't that good and you feel the need to sauce it, then wait until you get home to do it......

Also, Spares only, no BB's. They look better anyway, so there isn't a need to debate here.....

BTW we don't use garnish because it is a meat contest. While that statement may elude some of you, it is definitely true. :icon_shy

thillin
02-10-2009, 12:22 PM
Ditto on removing the backbone all together. Tony has some good advice. It goes along way.

And yep, take a paper towel when you walk it to turn in.

And at the Keller comp, No trimming brisket end after cooking to fit in the box. They would DQ as marking. They said make it curve to fit.

Jeff Hughes
02-10-2009, 12:49 PM
I trim brisket to box size before cooking already...

No sauce works for me, but will it work for KCBS acclimated judges?

Thanks the helps guys...

tony76248
02-11-2009, 07:34 AM
I trim brisket to box size before cooking already...

No sauce works for me, but will it work for KCBS acclimated judges?

Thanks the helps guys...

As far as KCBS acclimated judges go.... my thoughts are that they should read the rules and abide by them. I have seen where folks at a IBCA event last year in California (the pictures were posted here) did sauce the brisket. They were not DQ'd but should have been.

The rules in IBCA are very plain and simple and the head judge should be able to keep things straight. Plus you get the added bonus of not having to garnish.

I think that folks will find that if you abide by the IBCA rules, they will find that with one overall score that it will be all about taste and texture and appearance will have very little weight. I have seen some of the best melt in your mouth ribs win 1st place and they looked like they were black. Now that isn't the way I do mine, but at least everyone has a chance if the food tastes good. That's the best part about IBCA if the meat is good, they will score well regardless of what an individual judge's idea of appearance is.

Jeff Hughes
02-11-2009, 08:26 AM
As far as KCBS acclimated judges go.... my thoughts are that they should read the rules and abide by them.

If only...

Thanks again...

CivilWarBBQ
02-11-2009, 10:37 AM
Very helpful thread. My team will be trying our first IBCA event this year. Thanks to all the experienced cooks who have chimed in to help orient us newbies!

Vince RnQ
02-17-2009, 01:20 PM
The whole IBCA "cooked on" thing with sauce can be confusing but in reality those of us who do KCBS more often than IBCA tend to over think it. Most people in KCBS cook on their sauce on chicken and ribs so it really isn't any different. It's the brisket that often causes problems. (Pork also if that meat is being used in the IBCA event.)

The rules on the IBCA website, http://www.ibcabbq.org/topbar/rul.html , clearly state that the sauce is to be cooked on so the only way to know for sure what the expectation for that day's event will be is to consult directly with the Head Judge and then hope that that standard is what is actually enforced at the event.