PDA

View Full Version : Team of the Year Idea - What do you think?


ThomEmery
01-31-2009, 09:13 AM
I was going to use this idea as part of my campaign for the BoD this coming Winter.
But I am told that change in the ToY system maybe happening soon.

The KCBS ToY in place now works, really works well for the top 50 teams or so
It should be left alone as a KCBS National ToY

Now there are the other teams that are not for
whatever reason apart of that top 50 group.
They just cant cook 20 contests.
What can we do that would give them a ToY race
that they realistically have a chance of winning?

What if there was a Regional Series where teams are cooking against Folks they know and see through out the year? If we had 4 or 5 Regional Races The East, The West, The South
The Midwest maybe one more For the Great Lakes area. Cooks could declare for these Regional Races based on a Best 5 results.

Now we need to make the Regions large so we don't step on the toes of the State and Regional Associations that are in place now and such a important part of BBQ

The first year Top Ten Teams would at the very least be featured in the Bull-sheet and on the website. This would seem a possible program to sell "The Kingsford KCBS Regional Championships" sounds nice... But with the economy dragging that may not happen this year
If we did have a sponsor Nice Trophies at the Annual Meeting would be great.
__________________

Pig Headed
01-31-2009, 09:17 AM
Doesn't sound like a bad idea, though I don't think the good ol' boy network would care for it.

U2CANQUE
01-31-2009, 09:45 AM
If KCBS is moving to regional representation, why not team regional.....always appreciate your input......

MilitantSquatter
01-31-2009, 10:00 AM
Would your idea be based on where a team/head cook lives or where the contests are held ?

Ex. A team in NY may choose to compete in six contests in a year... Two in NY, two in New England area and then two down in Mid-Atlantic... Would they now be excluded becuase they would potentially not meet the min requirements for contests in one geographic region ?

ThomEmery
01-31-2009, 10:10 AM
Would your idea be based on where a team/head cook lives or where the contests are held ?

Ex. A team in NY may choose to compete in six contests in a year... Two in NY, two in New England area and then two down in Mid-Atlantic... Would they now be excluded becuase they would potentially not meet the min requirements for contests in one geographic region ?

It could be done many ways
I would be in favor of address of record for the Head Cook being his region
All the contest locations you mentioned would probably be in the Eastern Region

ThomEmery
01-31-2009, 10:13 AM
If KCBS is moving to regional representation, why not team regional.....always appreciate your input......


The BoD did not seem inclined to return to the Regional Seats discussion for its own make up. With the Election of Gene G it has been proven the organization open to those outside the South and Midwest

ThomEmery
01-31-2009, 10:15 AM
Doesn't sound like a bad idea, though I don't think the good ol' boy network would care for it.

Those Good Ol Boys outside the 50 Teams would be some of the primary beneficiaries

ov1
01-31-2009, 05:32 PM
Could they do TOY for 10 and fewer, 11-20, 21 or more contests?

ThomEmery
01-31-2009, 07:15 PM
I was thinking this Regional ToY would be back to the Best 5 contests

ThomEmery
09-12-2010, 08:42 PM
I was going to use this idea as part of my campaign for the BoD this coming Winter.
But I am told that change in the ToY system maybe happening soon.

The KCBS ToY in place now works, really works well for the top 50 teams or so
It should be left alone as a KCBS National ToY

Now there are the other teams that are not for
whatever reason apart of that top 50 group.
They just cant cook 20 contests.
What can we do that would give them a ToY race
that they realistically have a chance of winning?

What if there was a Regional Series where teams are cooking against Folks they know and see through out the year? If we had 4 or 5 Regional Races The East, The West, The South
The Midwest maybe one more For the Great Lakes area. Cooks could declare for these Regional Races based on a Best 5 results.

Now we need to make the Regions large so we don't step on the toes of the State and Regional Associations that are in place now and such a important part of BBQ

The first year Top Ten Teams would at the very least be featured in the Bull-sheet and on the website. This would seem a possible program to sell "The Kingsford KCBS Regional Championships" sounds nice... But with the economy dragging that may not happen this year
If we did have a sponsor Nice Trophies at the Annual Meeting would be great.
__________________

This Regional Race concept was a subject of discussion at the Mesquite Organizers Roundtable.
There was strong support for this being funded by host events that choose to participate.
Costs would be based on number of teams attending. To create a prize and award fund.

ZILLA
09-12-2010, 09:33 PM
What happened to that "best ten cooks of the year" idea that was being kicked around.

ThomEmery
09-12-2010, 09:48 PM
That is still in place Best Ten ToY
I am talking about a additional race that teams could opt for rather than
the National ToY

Jeff_in_KC
09-12-2010, 09:49 PM
Something I've learned this year in making whatever run on this that we have - it is farking HARD to accomplish! And I don't mean just that you have to be good... you have to have the cash, stamina, time off, a ton of luck and so forth to really stand a chance. It's coming down to being basically two months left in the season (outside of a handful in November and December) and we are physically spent! We're still OK on the cash side of things but the enjoyment is fading as we get more tired of the work it takes, not just Friday and Saturday but all week. We got home last night from a comp and spent a lot of today already prepping for next weekend. I'll have a lot of work and running around to do just to be ready for another 36 hour event next weekend. It's been that way all summer. We've had about three weekends off from competitions since mid-May. I'm not complaining at all! We've gotten ourselves into this and we've done it just well enough that we can't stop now. We made all the choices and we've enjoyed the experience and wouldn't trade it for the world. I doubt, though, that we'll be doing anything like this again any year soon!

My point in all of this is basically that my belief is Team of the Year SHOULD go to a team that can show that they can consistently do well over the brutal nine month season cooking all those contests. Remember, it won't be us trying next year and I'm fine with that. My hat is off to Rod, Mike, John, Rob and all the others who are able to consistently do what it takes to have a shot at team of the Year! We now have a much greater appreciation for what it actually takes to accomplish that goal. I would be in favor of recognition in some way for all the thousands of teams out there who can cook only 10 or 12 contests a year (I'm one of those in that level too in any normal season) and who do well in those contests but I would like to see the main Team of the Year race stay the same as it is right now with the exception of us being on the sideline watching again! LOL!

ThomEmery
09-12-2010, 09:54 PM
Yes I agree the National KCBS ToY should remain as is
It is working very well for the professional level teams
All teams would "declare" for either the National or Regional ToYs
in Jan or upon joining

Bentley
09-12-2010, 10:01 PM
...but the enjoyment is fading as we get more tired of the work it takes...


Wow, that sounds a lot like a job...

Jeff_in_KC
09-12-2010, 10:29 PM
Wow, that sounds a lot like a job...

That's a perfect way to put it. It absolutely is a second job. Counting time actually at the contest, I would estimate about 38 hours all week. I bet some folks put in even more.

Thom, the only problem I see with declaring one or the other is that at the beginning of the year, you might not know. As an example, when this season started, I was unemployed and money was tight. The plan was to cook about seven contests this year. We started doing fairly well and winning a little money and one thing led to another. All of a sudden, it's September and we're getting ready for contest #19 with four more to go after that and maybe five. I would say it wouldn't be fair to teams in that situation if things went well and suddenly they had the cash and time to do more and weren't allowed to accomplish whatever they could.

ThomEmery
09-12-2010, 11:34 PM
Good point Jeff
Hummmm I wonder if moving up to the National but not down should be allowed

Ford
09-13-2010, 07:54 AM
I agree with Jeff on how much work it is. I plan to cook aroung 45 weekends next year although most will be vending. It's hard work there but the prep and cleanup work adds so much each week. And it's harder work than the actual contest. Those that cook 25+ a year deserve some recognition but I'm not real happy about the KCBS giving away money to them other than a small stipend. As stated earlier there are less than 50 teams in this race and 13000+ members.

ThomEmery
09-13-2010, 08:09 AM
Ford The National ToY Top Ten Teams should be awarded something special in the way of awards both in trophy and in $ I am sure you would agree.
Someone is going to form a "team" with 3 or 4 head cooks that live in separate parts of the country, compete every available date and win ToY without breaking a sweat

DawgPhan
09-13-2010, 09:17 AM
meh. It doesnt really inspire me or anything. Unless the contests are separate for the regional teams and the national teams, I dont think that splitting up the points makes any sense. It creates an even bigger mess for calculating the TOY points, which they dont do satisfactorily yet. I would say they should actually just stick with the current format until they can actually do it right, then they should talk about changes. Until they can put out every point and every team from day one through an entire year with it updated every week, they dont need to worry about making more TOY races, or changes the formula.

I would be more in favor of limited national spots and having to earn your tour card.

afreemaniii
09-13-2010, 03:24 PM
Why couldn't the TOY race be done using average performance and not a tally of points collected over the year? Yes, teams that compete 20-30 times a year will undoubtedly do well in a race where points are accumulated. And yes, those same teams may do fine under this idea, but it gives the smaller teams a chance.

Let's say I compete in 5 contests in a year and my finishes were GC, GC, RGC, 3rd, and 6th. That's a pretty damn impressive year and my average finishing spot 2.5.

Let's Team X competes 28 times and finishes 7, 4, 3, 1, 6, 3, 10, 4, 3, 13, 1, 10, 4, 1, 1, 6, 6, 1, 5, 6, 7, 1, 3, 1, 82, 5, 2, 4. Their average finishing spot is 7.14.

Yes, there could be other factors taken into play such as weighting the field so that a Smoke on the Water contest is worth more than a 15 year first year contest, but in the end you open the overall TOY contest to more teams that are still REALLY good, but don't have the time or money to compete every weekend.

Just a thought. Fire away at the idea and point out the flaws in my plan that I overlooked. There's bound to be one or ten.

Scottie
09-13-2010, 04:00 PM
I don't think a team that only cooks 5 contests should be considered for team of the year... Let's face it. KCBS wants teams that cook contests. Not just 5, but as many as they can get teams to cook. I can see it as being 10 as the minumum, but 5 isn't going to fly.

As a cook, I wouldn't want a team that cooks 5 contests be considered team of the year. I want a team that is out there and competing. I guarantee you.. The system that they have in place, rewards the top team in KCBS. You can't tell me that Rod, Rob or Tuffy were not the best teams the last 3 years...

Smokedelic
09-13-2010, 04:22 PM
Why couldn't the TOY race be done using average performance and not a tally of points collected over the year? Yes, teams that compete 20-30 times a year will undoubtedly do well in a race where points are accumulated. And yes, those same teams may do fine under this idea, but it gives the smaller teams a chance.

Let's say I compete in 5 contests in a year and my finishes were GC, GC, RGC, 3rd, and 6th. That's a pretty damn impressive year and my average finishing spot 2.5.

Let's Team X competes 28 times and finishes 7, 4, 3, 1, 6, 3, 10, 4, 3, 13, 1, 10, 4, 1, 1, 6, 6, 1, 5, 6, 7, 1, 3, 1, 82, 5, 2, 4. Their average finishing spot is 7.14.

Yes, there could be other factors taken into play such as weighting the field so that a Smoke on the Water contest is worth more than a 15 year first year contest, but in the end you open the overall TOY contest to more teams that are still REALLY good, but don't have the time or money to compete every weekend.

Just a thought. Fire away at the idea and point out the flaws in my plan that I overlooked. There's bound to be one or ten.

Using your example, and with all due respect, while you might feel that the 5 contest finishes you list is a damn impressive year, it doesn't hold a candle to the accomplishments of team X.

The thing that makes team X's accomplishments damn impressive is they've shown they can go out and be competitive almost every week of the contest season. It probably also means they've done well in different regions of the country.

Being consistently good, over that long of a stretch is, IMO, what makes a Team of the Year candidate. No slight to "the smaller teams", but to be considered a Team of the Year, you should be out cooking all year, or at least the vast majority of it.

ThomEmery
09-13-2010, 04:23 PM
Yes best 10 maybe even more counting for the National is a given

Jeff_in_KC
09-13-2010, 04:35 PM
Using your example, and with all due respect, while you might feel that the 5 contest finishes you list is a damn impressive year, it doesn't hold a candle to the accomplishments of team X.

The thing that makes team X's accomplishments damn impressive is they've shown they can go out and be competitive almost every week of the contest season. It probably also means they've done well in different regions of the country.

Being consistently good, over that long of a stretch is, IMO, what makes a Team of the Year candidate. No slight to "the smaller teams", but to be considered a Team of the Year, you should be out cooking all year, or at least the vast majority of it.


Mike, I think you nailed it with that post.

JayAre
09-13-2010, 05:01 PM
I agree with most here on this one, the big guys are out there week in and week out...and should be the TOY, But it would be nice to give the smaller teams some sort of recognition for their accomplishments. So why not have an overall TOY as is now, then some sort of award for the 1-5 comps per yr team, 6-10 comps per yr etc. Best small team, or whatever you want to call it. If a small team gets best kcbs small team of the year award, wouldnt that inspire them to do more, which is promoting bbq and bbq contest?? I know it would.

DawgPhan
09-13-2010, 05:05 PM
I agree with most here on this one, the big guys are out there week in and week out...and should be the TOY, But it would be nice to give the smaller teams some sort of recognition for their accomplishments. So why not have an overall TOY as is now, then some sort of award for the 1-5 comps per yr team, 6-10 comps per yr etc. Best small team, or whatever you want to call it. If a small team gets best kcbs small team of the year award, wouldnt that inspire them to do more, which is promoting bbq and bbq contest?? I know it would.


But that TOY doesnt just happen. Tracking all of that and having it be something that KCBS can promote requires effort, cash, people and time...is that something that KCBS is willing to take away from something else so that a few teams who cooked 4 or 5 contests in a single year can get a trophy a banquet they probably wont even attend?

There simply isnt any good reason to try and recognize a team that isn't cooking more than a dozen times a year.

JayAre
09-13-2010, 05:11 PM
But that TOY doesnt just happen. Tracking all of that and having it be something that KCBS can promote requires effort, cash, people and time...is that something that KCBS is willing to take away from something else so that a few teams who cooked 4 or 5 contests in a single year can get a trophy a banquet they probably wont even attend?

There simply isnt any good reason to try and recognize a team that isn't cooking more than a dozen times a year.

I see and understand your point, but, without those 10 and under cooks, contest entries wouldnt be what they are...field fillers?? I dont think that term sets well with me, I work just as hard and spend just as much. I suppose the recognition at the comp is enough, assuming you do well, but I pay my kcbs dues like everyone else...:-D

ThomEmery
09-13-2010, 05:34 PM
But that TOY doesnt just happen. Tracking all of that and having it be something that KCBS can promote requires effort, cash, people and time...is that something that KCBS is willing to take away from something else so that a few teams who cooked 4 or 5 contests in a single year can get a trophy a banquet they probably wont even attend?

There simply isnt any good reason to try and recognize a team that isn't cooking more than a dozen times a year.


I already have a funding source
for this idea
Clarification it is Best 5 scores not 5 contests
Anyone who could cook 5 contests and GC 5 times would most likely be cookin the National Pro ToY
Regional teams would probably end up cooking 12ish to get a very good best 5 scores. agreed?
Just as the National Pro ToY is best 10.... You know it takes way more than 10 cooks to win it

DawgPhan
09-13-2010, 05:45 PM
I already have a funding source
for this idea
Clarification it is Best 5 scores not 5 contests
Anyone who could cook 5 contests and GC 5 times would most likely be cookin the National Pro ToY
Regional teams would probably end up cooking 12ish to get a very good best 5 scores. agreed?
Just as the National Pro ToY is best 10.... You know it takes way more than 10 cooks to win it


So if you are talking teams that are cooking 12+ contests each season you arent really talking about the lower end of the scale anyway. And I still think that it would be better to put any resources to use on the current system and just make that one work the way it should. Until the first system works correctly I have a heard time understanding why we would need a second system that does the same thing...you dont happen to work in the government do you? I kid I kid...

ThomEmery
09-13-2010, 05:49 PM
No I own a trash company It is always in season :)
The system does work we just have to trust guys like the pickled pig to make it better
I am talkin best 5 scores It is up to them to make it happen as fast as that can be done
reality is it will take more than 5 cooks to score 5 great wins

The Pickled Pig
09-13-2010, 05:50 PM
I think that anytime we find ways to recognize accomplishments we should do so. A piece of silk, a plaque, a public announcement are all cheap ways to give out recognition.

However, don't most regional associations already have points contests?

ThomEmery
09-13-2010, 05:53 PM
Yes many do
The regions I am talking about are much larger than the present system
your right do not want to step on those long established association ToYs
This would be 5 or 6 across the whole country

The Pickled Pig
09-13-2010, 05:57 PM
No I own a trash company It is always in season :)
The system does work we just have to trust guys like the pickled pig to make it better
I am talkin best 5 scores It is up to them to make it happen as fast as that can be done
reality is it will take more than 5 cooks to score 5 great wins


Thanks for the plug. :becky:

It might take all of 20 minutes to have a page up that ranks teams based on a max of 5 contests. But keep in mind there are a lot of teams that have 5 GCs. You could filter out any teams that compete in 10 or more contests.

JayAre
09-13-2010, 05:58 PM
I already have a funding source
for this idea
Clarification it is Best 5 scores not 5 contests
Anyone who could cook 5 contests and GC 5 times would most likely be cookin the National Pro ToY
Regional teams would probably end up cooking 12ish to get a very good best 5 scores. agreed?
Just as the National Pro ToY is best 10.... You know it takes way more than 10 cooks to win it

Interesting for sure...

I was looking at the stats on pickled pig...there are only a hand full of teams doing 15 or more contests (39) the majority of teams are doing 5 and less contests...
1-5 contests = 4206 teams (2699 of those only doing one)
5-10 = 416
10-15 = 106
15+= 39

So if the teams that do the majority of the contests are not represented come end of year recognition, how much of the TOY is accurate?? (think Able Acres here, they have done 6 contests, and got 4 GC's, 2 RG's)

again, not saying the guys that do the high number of contests dont deserve TOY, just that teams that dont compete as much probably deserve something too. and for the record, I dont think I would be in any of those groups, Ive done 8 so far and have one more planned, still wouldnt be in the upper class of my "catagory" :wink:

ThomEmery
09-13-2010, 06:03 PM
I am considering a run for the KCBS BoD
This is one idea to work to create a better KCBS for all teams
The top teams are doing well and rightfully so.... heck they can do even better in the future
The middle and the new teams be needin love also :)

DawgPhan
09-13-2010, 06:11 PM
I can agree that KCBS could do a better job of spreading the love.

indianagriller
09-13-2010, 06:16 PM
So no body thinks a team the cooks 6 contests and GC 4 RGC 2, could be considered TOY. That seems like a team that is pretty dominant. Are they TOY worthy?

ThomEmery
09-13-2010, 06:22 PM
If they are the right wins
could be Brother
It is all in the numbers correct

2Fat
09-13-2010, 06:29 PM
So no body thinks a team the cooks 6 contests and GC 4 RGC 2, could be considered TOY. That seems like a team that is pretty dominant. Are they TOY worthy?

Have never cooked with(or know of) the team you mentioned but imo the TOY is for those that prove themselves in different areas of the country cooking often--against the best most every weekend....can't be considered the best without singing in Carnegie Hall if you get my drift

JayAre
09-13-2010, 06:33 PM
Have never cooked with(or know of) the team you mentioned but imo the TOY is for those that prove themselves in different areas of the country cooking often--against the best most every weekend....can't be considered the best without singing in Carnegie Hall if you get my drift


So, karaoke in the local pub or singing in the shower dont count???lol great point, I was just looking at Pellet Envy's stats, pretty inpressive!

Smokedelic
09-13-2010, 06:45 PM
So no body thinks a team the cooks 6 contests and GC 4 RGC 2, could be considered TOY. That seems like a team that is pretty dominant. Are they TOY worthy?

Is a team that cooks 6 contests and has 4 GC's and 2 RGC's worthy of a
Team of the Year award over a team that cooks 30 contests and has 8 GC's and 5 RGC's?

IMO, no. While a team like Able Acres has had a great year, and a lot of success, I wouldn't consider their accomplishments ToY worthy. Now, with that said, if they could cook 20+ contests a year and keep that same winning percentage, they'd be a strong candidate for ToY, IMO...and the current system would reflect that.

DawgPhan
09-13-2010, 07:01 PM
nothing you can do in 5-6 contests compares to what Pellet Envy, Bub-Ba-Q, Quau, or any of the other top teams have done.

2Fat
09-13-2010, 07:07 PM
So, karaoke in the local pub or singing in the shower dont count???lol great point, I was just looking at Pellet Envy's stats, pretty inpressive!

Think Harry Chapin said that in a song(Mr.Tanner)long time ago
http://harrychapin.com/music/tanner.shtml

crd26a
09-13-2010, 07:42 PM
Thom - I'd stay away from the focus on trying to get the 5-15 tournament teams in the chanse and look at how the big sponsors can be leveraged in a different manner. Sam's can stay ToY, but redesign the August contest and present when measurement date is at. This can get more teams involved early on in the year.

Kingsford should be completely redone into a format that you decide. Not taking anything away from Quau, but it was designed to be taken by a team that can travel that much. It would benefit from being regional based, allowing for top teams that compete in the 2-4 events in their region to earn points, then have the top teams in a seperate Kingsford Team of the Year tournament, either being conducted at the same time as the Royal (could make some sense) or in another cookout towards the end of the year. Each region could have a recognized winner w/ $ purse, plus an overall winner as well.

To me this makes more sense and has been something the BoD should really look at, at least when they're not compiling their reports, or lack there of

ThomEmery
09-13-2010, 08:02 PM
Well lets see what happens
We have a few ideas cookin if we get a chance

indianagriller
09-13-2010, 09:30 PM
Im not saying that they should be considered, well i guess in a way i am, but what makes a team an elite team, i would have to say that 4 GC would surely put you in the top tier of competitive bbq. Some cooks cant cook 25 weekends a year, does that make them any less of a team? I dont have a dog in the fight, i can only cook 5-7 comps a year, but what is the criteria for being an TOY worthy team?

ThomEmery
09-13-2010, 10:19 PM
National ToY is both a great cook and a Ironman contest
Regionals count give us some flexibility

Jeff_in_KC
09-13-2010, 10:21 PM
Im not saying that they should be considered, well i guess in a way i am, but what makes a team an elite team, i would have to say that 4 GC would surely put you in the top tier of competitive bbq. Some cooks cant cook 25 weekends a year, does that make them any less of a team? I dont have a dog in the fight, i can only cook 5-7 comps a year, but what is the criteria for being an TOY worthy team?

Being a ten contest a year kind of team up until this year (and planning on going back next year), I can say I've seen it now from both sides of the fence. We're getting ready to compete in number 19 this year. My wife and I are 5th this week. We are almost 100 points behind Pellet Envy and Quau... and we thought we were doing really well. I can say from this experience that compared to what we are doing, what Rod and Mike are doing is absolutely amazing! As much as we have accomplished, these guys have done way more! My level of respect for anyone in the chase in any year has increased by leaps and bounds. So... what makes a team TOY worthy? No disrespect meant to anyone but catch Rod and/or Mike and win it! Then you're worthy. I wouldn't say the number of contests you cook per year has anything to do with how worthy you are. Do it in ten events or do it in 30 - doesn't matter. But you'd best bring your A game every week because these guys do.

Smokin' Joe
09-13-2010, 10:32 PM
Well said Jeff, its a incredible grind...we GC'd this weekend (granted in a small event) and moved up exactly ZERO spots in the TOY overall rankings this week...

HoDeDo
09-13-2010, 11:46 PM
It could be done many ways
I would be in favor of address of record for the Head Cook being his region
All the contest locations you mentioned would probably be in the Eastern Region I would want to ensure it leaves open the shot for me to come out to a region and try to compete for it. We work our family vacations around BBQ... NY, AR, OK, TN, KS/MO/etc. If I want to compete in a region, I'd like a shot. I may not know that until I am out in the mix cooking it.

Yes I agree the National KCBS ToY should remain as is
It is working very well for the professional level teams
All teams would "declare" for either the National or Regional ToYs
in Jan or upon joining I dont know about "declairing"... couldnt the fact that you cooked in the region put you in the pot? Then I can choose where I compete... plus contests come, and go, get cancelled, etc... which could effect if I had "declared". I'm all for regional champions... but I think forcing someone to declare, reduces travel and intermingling of teams... If I win two in CO, I might just cook 3 more out there I wasnt going to, in order to try to get a regional cup.. but if I have to declare, and didnt, I probably dont go cook those others. I say keep it open,and it will drive more/better competition. :wink:

Thom - I'd stay away from the focus on trying to get the 5-15 tournament teams in the chanse and look at how the big sponsors can be leveraged in a different manner. Sam's can stay ToY, but redesign the August contest and present when measurement date is at. This can get more teams involved early on in the year.

Kingsford should be completely redone into a format that you decide. Not taking anything away from Quau, but it was designed to be taken by a team that can travel that much. It would benefit from being regional based, allowing for top teams that compete in the 2-4 events in their region to earn points, then have the top teams in a seperate Kingsford Team of the Year tournament, either being conducted at the same time as the Royal (could make some sense) or in another cookout towards the end of the year. Each region could have a recognized winner w/ $ purse, plus an overall winner as well.

To me this makes more sense and has been something the BoD should really look at, at least when they're not compiling their reports, or lack there of Actually Kingsford, with the points now doubling and tripling... mean someone could come in right now and beat mike... with far less contests under his belt... The exponential points make it far more exciting at the end... and even it up for people that cook great, but dont have the vacation.

Being a ten contest a year kind of team up until this year (and planning on going back next year), I can say I've seen it now from both sides of the fence. We're getting ready to compete in number 19 this year. My wife and I are 5th this week. We are almost 100 points behind Pellet Envy and Quau... and we thought we were doing really well. I can say from this experience that compared to what we are doing, what Rod and Mike are doing is absolutely amazing! As much as we have accomplished, these guys have done way more! My level of respect for anyone in the chase in any year has increased by leaps and bounds. So... what makes a team TOY worthy? No disrespect meant to anyone but catch Rod and/or Mike and win it! Then you're worthy. I wouldn't say the number of contests you cook per year has anything to do with how worthy you are. Do it in ten events or do it in 30 - doesn't matter. But you'd best bring your A game every week because these guys do.
Running around AR, and FL last year, trying to catch Rod, and ISS, etc.was alot of fun, but it is a daunting task to g:mod:et to the top spot. I am with you Jeff, it is a huge undertaking. I used every ounce of vacation I had, to eek into the top 5. Sure was fun trying though :) Tough to bring A game every week. :) Rod, Mike, and crew are machines. Someday...:mod:

Jeff_in_KC
09-13-2010, 11:52 PM
Tough to bring A game every week. :) Rod, Mike, and crew are machines. Someday...:mod:

I know that's right. I brought my L game this past weekend! :becky:

Finney
09-14-2010, 07:15 AM
What Andy said ^^^^

Except for the part about being in the running last year. (I wasn't in the running, won't ever be in the running.... etc)

ique
09-14-2010, 08:17 AM
Regionals count give us some flexibility

We already have regionals. Regional BBQ societies like NEBS, Mid Atlantic, FBA etc. sanction regional ToY contests right now. The NEBS cup goes back to the mid 90's. Why exactly do we need a KCBS version of these as well?

The National ToY system is pretty good - the right team has won the last few years. However, there are some teams that seem to get into the mix mostly based on cooking a lot of contests. So it is not a contest against 4000 teams (or whatever) but a contest among the 20-30 teams that cook contests almost full time. I don't know how to fix that, but that is the weakness of the current system in my opinion.

One nice add may be some novelty type ToY awards like most Grands cooking less than 10 contests, greatest point margin of victory, highest score etc. Make the individual categories scoring system more friendly to the teams not cooking 30 contests a year.

ThomEmery
09-14-2010, 08:42 AM
Yes Chris in some parts of the country we do have regionals,
Not everywhere and the regions would be much larger than
present associations We do not want to cause harm to the
associations, we want to add cooks to the cook offs :)
Andy some good points the exact make up of this is developmental
to say the least :) Declaring is a early concept that may not be needed
When I first worked on this last year it was pay to play
But at Mesquite the organizers heard it out and wanted in enough to foot the bill
for the regionals That maybe the best model

Brew-B-Q
09-14-2010, 02:47 PM
However, there are some teams that seem to get into the mix mostly based on cooking a lot of contests. So it is not a contest against 4000 teams (or whatever) but a contest among the 20-30 teams that cook contests almost full time. I don't know how to fix that, but that is the weakness of the current system in my opinion.


Would averaging a team's scores, rather than only taking their top 10, help? After you cook 10 contests, there is no risk...only upside. While I know that's good for KCBS and contest organizers, I think if you have a span of bad contests it should bring your team of year rankings down.

Scottie
09-14-2010, 03:13 PM
One nice add may be some novelty type ToY awards like most Grands cooking less than 10 contests, greatest point margin of victory, highest score etc. Make the individual categories scoring system more friendly to the teams not cooking 30 contests a year.


I like the current system. I don't want a team that only cooks 7 contests and wins 4 to be considered for the TOY. Do it in the long run over the course of a season... Does it limit the teams eligible? Sure does. But let's face it. to compete that many times in a year, you can't suck and you are more than liklely one of the top teams going... Like I've said in the past. The last few TOY has been awarded to the best team of KCBS.

They also do a few of these awards Chris. I remember highest score for the year and another one. It sure beats the old days, when awards went out to local KC area teams that made a great breakfast. While I understand the process of those local teams for wanting to do that. When you weren't a local team and they were giving these awards, it seemed too sterile. then again, they got rid of the Fireman award that was a national award.

The cynic in me can see folks complaining about these awards too though. That Rod Gray and Mike Wozniak had more opportunities to get a higher score because they cooked more. Not because they are that farking good... :doh:

rocksbarbque
09-14-2010, 03:45 PM
I would rather be the 100th team in the major leagues then the 1st team in the minor leagues. Making the stick shorter I am measured by does not make me any better.

ique
09-14-2010, 03:46 PM
I like the current system. I don't want a team that only cooks 7 contests and wins 4 to be considered for the TOY. Do it in the long run over the course of a season... Does it limit the teams eligible? Sure does. But let's face it. to compete that many times in a year, you can't suck and you are more than liklely one of the top teams going... Like I've said in the past. The last few TOY has been awarded to the best team of KCBS.


The current system is pretty good. I wasnt suggesting that a team that cooks 7 contests should be able to win (although winning 4 out of 7 should place you at lot higher than the current system does). I was suggesting that the "top score" type awards be expanded.


Would averaging a team's scores, rather than only taking their top 10, help? After you cook 10 contests, there is no risk...only upside.

Yes it would be nice to have winning % as an element of the scoring. The team that wins 7 out of 15 should place higher than the team that wins 7 out of 30.

Scottie
09-14-2010, 04:04 PM
Sorry, I do agree Chris. I started with one thought and placed my other thought prior to my other part of my post. Lack of concentration... That Jets game just took it all out of me last night... :becky:

ThomEmery
09-14-2010, 06:47 PM
I will hold off on the idea of making Turducken a required meat


:) JK

Red Valley BBQ
09-14-2010, 09:00 PM
What about using an average of the best 5 (or whatever number is decided on)overall scores for each team? The overall score is more of an indicator of how good a team is than is position of finish. Since the total possible overall score is a constant 720 points that would level the playing field for all teams. Using a certain number of comps to qualify for TOY would allow more teams to be eligible

For example:

Team A cooks 8 comps and the average of the best 5 scores is 654.1368
Team B cooks 18 comps and the average of the best 5 scores is 648.4724

Team A, while cooking fewer comps, should be considered for TOY because they have performed to a higher level then Team B.

Just my two cents.

Smokedelic
09-14-2010, 09:19 PM
What about using an average of the best 5 (or whatever number is decided on)overall scores for each team? The overall score is more of an indicator of how good a team is than is position of finish. Since the total possible overall score is a constant 720 points that would level the playing field for all teams. Using a certain number of comps to qualify for TOY would allow more teams to be eligible

For example:

Team A cooks 8 comps and the average of the best 5 scores is 654.1368
Team B cooks 18 comps and the average of the best 5 scores is 648.4724

Team A, while cooking fewer comps, should be considered for TOY because they have performed to a higher level then Team B.

Just my two cents.

I don't think that judging, across the country, is consistent enough to make that work. It penalizes teams that might cook in an area where scores are traditionally low, or benefit teams in areas where scores are traditionally high. If every team was judged by the same set of judges then you might be on to something.

...just my 2 cents.

HoDeDo
09-15-2010, 09:08 AM
I agree Mike, When I went out to NY to cook, many were lower than scores here. B Hills won with a 666. At Oink, We essentially had a 680... which Linda thought was the highest score they had seen in NY at a contest. Here in the midwest, a 680 can take 5th to a 702 on occasion, for example.... Going by judging scores alone, would definitely skew the ToY to places that have higher scores. The competition was every bit as good, and food was killer, just as a region the judges score lower... I think using team placement is the way to go... it normalizes the scoring -- 1st place is 1st place if it is a 640 or a 700.

tmcmaster
09-15-2010, 02:33 PM
I don't think that judging, across the country, is consistent enough to make that work. It penalizes teams that might cook in an area where scores are traditionally low, or benefit teams in areas where scores are traditionally high. If every team was judged by the same set of judges then you might be on to something.

...just my 2 cents.
I don't think you can get consistent judges across one TABLE sometimes...:doh:

JayAre
09-15-2010, 07:22 PM
The current system is pretty good. I wasnt suggesting that a team that cooks 7 contests should be able to win (although winning 4 out of 7 should place you at lot higher than the current system does). I was suggesting that the "top score" type awards be expanded.

Yes it would be nice to have winning % as an element of the scoring. The team that wins 7 out of 15 should place higher than the team that wins 7 out of 30.


I think this is kinda what Ive been saying...the current system works, I would'nt change a thing about it, but i would like to see it expanded to "sub catagories" to give the lesser teams some insentive to do more contests and compete on the same level as the high end teams.