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View Full Version : 2008 KCBS TOY Results announced


MilitantSquatter
01-01-2009, 06:16 PM
http://www.kcbs.us/team-of-the-year.php


Anyone know the final team count of teams that competed at the full 10 contests ?

Congrats to all the Brethren who placed well !!! For those who didn't go get 'em in 2009 !!!

SmokeInDaEye
01-01-2009, 06:21 PM
http://www.kcbs.us/team-of-the-year.php


Anyone know the final team count of teams that competed at the full 10 contests ?

Congrats to all the Brethren who placed well !!! For those who didn't go get 'em in 2009 !!!

I don't understand the point system. A team only does well if they compete in at least 10 contests? I could only compete in 4 and placed in the top 5 in three with one GC but finished 300 something. Whatever.

MilitantSquatter
01-01-2009, 06:25 PM
This was the original KCBS release on the changes

http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=26

I would assume it is techincally possible for a team to compete in slightly under 10 and still place well assuming they dominate at the events they compete at and those events also have high team count.

That was my whole arguement at the begininning of the season when the annouced the new scoring system and doubled the # of contests to be counted from 5 to 10. There certainly needs to be a mininum contest count criteria (kind of line at-bats in baseball for the batting avg. crown) but 10 seems high when only a small % hit that minimum count.

Out of 4000+ teams if only 50-100 teams (assumption on my part) are competing 10-30 times a year, I don't see how this puts the majority of teams in the running. I guess TOY in KCBS eyes is also based on who is out on the road the most.

The TOY, Munch Hogs won 6 GC's out of 26 events competed.. Pretty Good, right ?? Sure is.. but the reserve TOY, Cool Smoke won 7 GC's in only 15 events competed... Pellet Envy won 8 GC's in 21 events....

Not taking anything away from Munch Hogs but as a % of wins to contests completed, Cool Smoke is pretty damn impressive and even Pellet Envy has a higher win %.

So many ways to look at this but in my mind 10 contests is still too high to cater to the majority of teams/KCBS members.

Merl
01-01-2009, 06:25 PM
http://www.kcbs.us/team-of-the-year.php


Anyone know the final team count of teams that competed at the full 10 contests ?

Congrats to all the Brethren who placed well !!! For those who didn't go get 'em in 2009 !!!

I am not certain of the exact number but it appears to be more than 40 teams and less than 50 teams that competed in at least 10 contest.

Yours in Que
Merl Whitebook

nthole
01-01-2009, 06:30 PM
Hey...we only made one contest this year (had to cancel everything else due to work trips) and we were still 1000 from the bottom! Sweet!

Double D's BBQ
01-01-2009, 06:36 PM
We competed in 9 contests and finished 51. The scoring system does favor those that cook more than ten contests and also in large contest as bonus points are added based on the number of teams in the contest. Example 50 teams 50 points added to the score for each competitor in the contest. I like the new system but 10 contests is out of reach for most people. We'll try and fit in a 10th contest if possible this year. Congratulations to all Brethren who competed this year! It would be nice to see some sort of Division added for those who compete in over 5 but under 10 but the system would still favor under the current method those teams that cook in 9 contests.

MilitantSquatter
01-01-2009, 06:46 PM
We competed in 9 contests and finished 51. The scoring system does favor those that cook more than ten contests and also in large contest as bonus points are added based on the number of teams in the contest. Example 50 teams 50 points added to the score for each competitor in the contest. I like the new system. We'll try and fit in a 10th contest if possible this year. Congratulations to all Brethren who competed this year!

51... That's pretty good !!! Congrats !!!

Now assuming you did a 10th contest and came in dead ass last place in a 100 team event, you would have gained an additional 125 pts and would have moved up almost 15 spots to about 35th place...

That's what I don't like about the scoring system.

Muzzlebrake
01-01-2009, 06:48 PM
I am not certain of the exact number but it appears to be more than 40 teams and less than 50 teams that competed in at least 10 contest.

Yours in Que
Merl Whitebook

how many of them are in the top 50? are all of them in the top 75? 100?

Double D's BBQ
01-01-2009, 07:00 PM
51... That's pretty good !!! Congrats !!!

Now assuming you did a 10th contest and came in dead ass last place in a 100 team event, you would have gained an additional 125 pts and would have moved up almost 15 spots to about 35th place...

That's what I don't like about the scoring system.

Thank you, we were very excited. This is only our third year competing and we learned a lot this year and credit most of it to the classes we took and the information we got from forums such as this one.

I do agree that the system has its flaws and a team that just squeezes out the ten minimum contests in order to max out the number of potential points is still at a competitive disadvantage to teams that compete at the next level, say 20 contests or more because as I understand it, they only count the top 10 highest scores. Short of head to head elimination contests though I'm not sure how they could come up with an overall champion or system that is fair to everyone. It's kind of like College Football. We need a playoff system or at least a Divisional System like College Football. Maybe that is the answer.

jbrink01
01-01-2009, 07:01 PM
1 contest, and we placed 1787. Woo Hoo!

Jeff_in_KC
01-01-2009, 07:03 PM
Big Creek finished 249th overall. Not bad for six contests. Ribs was our best category this year (chicken a close second) when it was ALWAYS our worst every year before. And pork, what carried us in many contests in the past, kicked our butts (no pun intended) in '08.

G$
01-01-2009, 07:03 PM
Just a quick glance at some names. Rhythym N Que at 24, Plowboys at 26. WOW. Smoke on wheels 70. Otis & the Bird 73. Nice!






Totally Que-less at 825. :icon_blush: May be we should do more than 2 contests per year.

SmokeInDaEye
01-01-2009, 07:13 PM
Thank you, we were very excited. This is only our third year competing and we learned a lot this year and credit most of it to the classes we took and the information we got from forums such as this one.

I do agree that the system has its flaws and a team that just squeezes out the ten minimum contests in order to max out the number of potential points is still at a competitive disadvantage to teams that compete at the next level, say 20 contests or more because as I understand it, they only count the top 10 highest scores. Short of head to head elimination contests though I'm not sure how they could come up with an overall champion or system that is fair to everyone. It's kind of like College Football. We need a playoff system or at least a Divisional System like College Football. Maybe that is the answer.

I agree. I'd do 20 contests a year if I had the time or resources but can only squeak out 4-5 and make the most of them.

Buster Dog BBQ
01-01-2009, 07:29 PM
I wish they would have their listings like the Pickled Pig where you can click the team and see where the points came from.

Also agree that 10 is too many. Some teams due to geographic location, crappy contests, and schedules just can't fit in 10. Like here in Iowa, we have a contest every weekend in June and July with the exception of the 4th. That's 8 weeks of continued contest and 9 if you could the next one in August.

MilitantSquatter
01-01-2009, 07:30 PM
This one is probably way off base but here it goes...

I don't believe KCBS counts teams for TOY that are not members of KCBS, however those non-member team placings go into the mix and change the total points awarded for a contest..

Ex. If a non KCBS team takes a GC, that automatically deducts 250 pts from the total pts to be awarded at a contest... The RGC gets 250+ pts but from a KCBS membership perspective they were the highest placing team... Should they be granted additional points ?

I think this is another reason KCBS should require all teams who compete under their judging system to be KCBS members.

Double D's BBQ
01-01-2009, 07:31 PM
Competition BBQ is a very expensive sport and unfortunately favors those with the resources (i.e. time and money) over those doing it primarily as a hobby. For a select few, this is their livelihood and they are very good and consistent at it. Fortunately for us these are generally the same people that give so much back to the sport in the way of classes or just helping out new teams. I've been around for a long time (more years than I'd like to admit) and I can honestly say that I have never been associated with a competitive sport like BBQ where the competition chooses to help others like BBQ does. And thats what make BBQ competitiors special in my opinion.

And the other nice thing is that despite all the flaws in the system, complaints about scoring or judging on any given Friday, Saturday, or even Sunday a little known team can suit up against the big guys and have a chance to walk, win,or do well at a contest. In my opinion there is nothing like competition BBQ and I'd like to thank everyone on this forum for all the help that has been so unselfishfly given over the past years.

Happy New Years to everyone and keep the tradition of giving back to others strong in 2009.

Dallas

Double D's BBQ
01-01-2009, 07:35 PM
This one is probably way off base but here it goes...

I don't believe KCBS counts teams for TOY that are not members of KCBS, however those non-member team placings go into the mix and change the total points awarded for a contest..

Ex. If a non KCBS team takes a GC, that automatically deducts 250 pts from the total pts to be awarded at a contest... The RGC gets 250+ pts but from a KCBS membership perspective they were the highest placing team... Should they be granted additional points ?

I think this is another reason KCBS should require all teams who compete under their judging system to be KCBS members.


I agree, I don't think a $35 membership is too much to ask for those that choose to compete in KCBS sanctioned contests. When you consider how much it costs to compete at a single contest, $35 is insignificant especially if we are only asking one member on a team to be a member. And without KCBS sanctioning and uniformity in rules, judging etc. competition BBQ would not be what it is today.

Jacked UP BBQ
01-01-2009, 07:43 PM
747 - I'm a loser!

HoDeDo
01-01-2009, 07:45 PM
Yep, 70th for smoke on wheels this year.... I had a couple contests as the HoDeDos as well, and a few others that would have helped our TOY placement - but I'm cool with it!

Honestly TOY doesnt hold a candle to my 2008. Getting to cook (and win) with Todd last year, and the success Kim and I got to share.... Winning Pork @ Hot Springs with #1 meathead, winning Pork with Todd at the AMR Invitational... AMR Open... Getting to share in The Brethren JACK trip. I'd have taken any of those experiences alone....

Let's get 2009 rolling!!!!!

Double D's BBQ
01-01-2009, 07:45 PM
No, you're a jumbo jet!

Ron_L
01-01-2009, 07:45 PM
I wish there was a way to see the details for at least my team. One of our best competitions had out name listed wrong and based on our totals I suspect that it may not be included. It really doesn't matter since we're not at the top, but it would be nice to verify that things were right.

Alexa RnQ
01-01-2009, 08:03 PM
We cooked in 13 or 14 KCBS contests, and pulled in at #24.

We had a few obstacles to overcome:
-- the distances we had to drive (averaging 6.5 hours one way, over a six-state range);
-- we cooked only a couple of contests that had over 50 teams (not counting the Jack);
-- neither of us is a food-service pro, we both have fulltime jobs;
-- and this was our first full year on the competition circuit.

Geographically disadvantaged as we are, we may never show up in the top 10, but
I'm proud of our season-end numbers. If we can do that under those conditions, I'd think that anybody with the same desire could do it too.

Plowboy
01-01-2009, 08:09 PM
Plowboys had 14 contests that counted towards TOY overall.

KC_Bobby
01-01-2009, 08:14 PM
I'm courious to know who Boondoggle's BBQ is. They didn't knock anyone's socks off but cooking only 6 comps, they finished a respectable 328th overall.

SmokeInDaEye
01-01-2009, 08:27 PM
Plowboys had 14 contests that counted towards TOY overall.

And how'd you do? Or do I have to look it up?

HoDeDo
01-01-2009, 08:30 PM
I'm courious to know who Boondoggle's BBQ is. They didn't knock anyone's socks off but cooking only 6 comps, they finished a respectable 328th overall.

I could tell you some things I've heard about them. I'm sure none of them are true.... :twisted::twisted:

KC_Bobby
01-01-2009, 08:31 PM
The TOY, Munch Hogs won 6 GC's out of 26 events competed.. Pretty Good, right ??

Is 26 right? Were all 26 KCBS santioned events? I'm thinking the numbers must be off here because if that's right, we averaged more points a comp then Munchin Hog - which I doubt is the case since Rob seems to always finish in the top 10.

MilitantSquatter
01-01-2009, 08:37 PM
Is 26 right? Were all 26 KCBS santioned events? I'm thinking the numbers must be off here because if that's right, we averaged more points a comp then Munchin Hog - which I doubt is the case since Rob seems to always finish in the top 10.


26 per Pickled Pig's data.. I'd assume only sanctioned KCBS events are being tracked.

http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/powerrankingsteamhist.cfm?team=MUNCHIN%20HOGS%20AT %20THE%20HILTON&StartDate={d%20'2008-01-01'}&EndDate={d%20'2008-12-31'}


You may have averaged more pts per contest, but if you only cooked 6 and they get their best 10, then avg pts per contest does not affect final standings since it's total points of the best 10.

SmokeInDaEye
01-01-2009, 08:43 PM
26 per Pickled Pig's data.. I'd assume only sanctioned KCBS events are being tracked.

http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/powerrankingsteamhist.cfm?team=MUNCHIN%20HOGS%20AT %20THE%20HILTON&StartDate={d%20'2008-01-01'}&EndDate={d%20'2008-12-31' (http://www.thepickledpig.com/PPapps/rankings/powerrankingsteamhist.cfm?team=MUNCHIN%20HOGS%20AT %20THE%20HILTON&StartDate=%7Bd%20%272008-01-01%27%7D&EndDate=%7Bd%20%272008-12-31%27)}


You may have averaged more pts per contest, but if you only cooked 6 and they get their best 10, then avg pts per contest does not affect final standings since it's total points of the best 10.

I hate math.

Plowboy
01-01-2009, 08:47 PM
And how'd you do? Or do I have to look it up?

26th

11 Top 10 Finishes

11th of 76 at Blue Springs
11th of 61 at Shannon, IL
16th of 459 at the American Royal

I'll take that!

Some of the results on KCBS aren't correct. There should be some changes coming next week, I think. I know that they are missing one of our big Pork contests. We should have 2530 pork points which puts us in 5th or 6th, I think.

SmokeInDaEye
01-01-2009, 08:53 PM
26th

11 Top 10 Finishes

11th of 76 at Blue Springs
11th of 61 at Shannon, IL
16th of 459 at the American Royal

I'll take that!

Some of the results on KCBS aren't correct. There should be some changes coming next week, I think. I know that they are missing one of our big Pork contests. We should have 2530 pork points which puts us in 5th or 6th, I think.

Nice! You had a year to remember, Todd, and many more to come.

watertowerbbq
01-01-2009, 09:32 PM
man we rocked!! :-D:-D

overall 3958 out of 4305 teams
chicken 3445 out of 4203 teams
ribs 3978 out of 4243 teams
pork 2048 out of 4183 teams
brisket 3027 out of 4148 teams

:eek::eek::eek: Guess we should have entered more than 1 contest :-D

looks like the only thing we can cook is pork

Exe-que-tioner
01-01-2009, 09:52 PM
3 competitions this year and only one in the top ten over-all finish. (6th out of 80 teams @ BlueSprings)

9th in chicken @ Laurie Hillbilly Cook-off. (77 teams)

3rd in pork @ BlueSprings

10th in ribs @ BlueSprings

Blues & BBQ - Sedaila, Mo. (13th overall out of 38 teams with no top 10
placing)

Team year end result.........600!.......(We'll take it. I think we may be on to
something?)

Just need to work on our briskets for '09. Good luck to everyone in the upcoming season.

NotleyQue
01-01-2009, 09:53 PM
I think I got left out. I have searched and searched the list for Notley Que till my contact lens almost fell out, and I cant find my ranking.

Dale P
01-01-2009, 11:39 PM
Our team had a blast but cooking only 4 just isnt enough. I love comp BBQing and the people are fantastic.

Overall-532
Brisket- 684
Chicken- 361
Ribs- 472
Pork- 561
And I am happy with these numbers.
Our team will never be able to do more then 7-8 comps at best a year unless we win the lotto.

Mike - CSBBBQ
01-02-2009, 07:12 AM
Our first year of more than a couple contests and we are very happy:-D We cooked 14 counting the invitational (tied for 10th lost tie breaker) and the open at the Royal, and Jack. Our GC was in a MABBQ (non-KCBS) contest and didn't count toward the points. In the other 11 we made top 10 in 8. We met soooooo many great folks and are looking forward to 09. Not sure we will be able to compete in as many contests but are fortunate to have several within a few hours.

Overall: 99
Chicken: 121
Ribs: 31
Pork: 129
Brisket: 129

CajunSmoker
01-02-2009, 08:01 AM
We only cooked 3 contests this year and came in at #800 overall, but like Andy said there was some great moments this year that go beyond numbers:cool:

Muzzlebrake
01-02-2009, 08:52 AM
I dont think I even made the list.....lol

is there a search function?

KC_Bobby
01-02-2009, 09:21 AM
control f

MoKanMeathead
01-02-2009, 09:40 AM
This string will go a long way...still looks like some problems with team names (The Pickled Pig and That Pickled Pig look suspisious) and point calculations. Of the 5 categories they got 1 right for us...the others were not off by much and for us it doesnt matter but for some it could make a big difference.

The Pickled Pig
01-02-2009, 09:47 AM
(The Pickled Pig and That Pickled Pig look suspisious)

The frustrating part is the KCBS office called me about that in November. I'm not sure what the purpose of the call was since they didn't follow through with the correction.

Plowboy
01-02-2009, 10:03 AM
This string will go a long way...still looks like some problems with team names (The Pickled Pig and That Pickled Pig look suspisious) and point calculations. Of the 5 categories they got 1 right for us...the others were not off by much and for us it doesnt matter but for some it could make a big difference.

They have us at 12th in Pork, but what I come up with is 4th. Hopefully, it will get figured out. I have faith that it will.

swamprb
01-02-2009, 10:34 AM
Only cooked in one KCBS comp in 2008 as "Midnight Butts" and came in 1224 Overall, my eyeballs are bleeding from scouring the results!

Congrats to all the Brethren!

There sure are some hilarious team names!

KC_Bobby
01-02-2009, 11:10 AM
This string will go a long way...still looks like some problems with team names (The Pickled Pig and That Pickled Pig look suspisious) and point calculations. Of the 5 categories they got 1 right for us...the others were not off by much and for us it doesnt matter but for some it could make a big difference.

For us, the point totals were correct on chicken, ribs and pork. Overall and brisket both gave us 5 mystery points each - so it was very close

Is 26 right? Were all 26 KCBS santioned events? I'm thinking the numbers must be off here because if that's right, we averaged more points a comp then Munchin Hog - which I doubt is the case since Rob seems to always finish in the top 10.

OK, I figured this out after reading the point system process. Only the top 10 scores are used (per catagory). Thus Munchin Hog killed us in average points as I would have expected. I thinks I should have looked for rules before posting that. My bad.

KC_Bobby
01-02-2009, 11:21 AM
One thing I noticed while adding up my points is the benefit (???) of bonus points for cooking in large contests. But I ask, what should have been worth more points?

A) a top 10 in a small comp (25 teams)
B) finishing in the bottom 25% of a catagory in a large comp (over 100 teams)

I'd say A, but B provided more points. In fact, finishing 10th in a 25 team comp would equal the same number of points as finishing dead last in a 100+ team comp - 125 points. I'm not saying finishing 10th out of 25 is a great feat ... but the team who finished 24th overall/per catagoy at the Royal (insert any large comp here) got the same number of points as the team who finished dead last. Finishing 24th at these large comps is still a damn good finish. A super bonus catagory would be something to consider in these mega comps.

Vince RnQ
01-02-2009, 11:40 AM
They have us at 12th in Pork, but what I come up with is 4th. Hopefully, it will get figured out. I have faith that it will.


Are you only counting your top 10 results? I initially made that mistake when I was running some rough calculations then felt kinda dumb when I realized I was using data from all 14 events that qualified.

Plowboy
01-02-2009, 11:47 AM
Are you only counting your top 10 results? I initially made that mistake when I was running some rough calculations then felt kinda dumb when I realized I was using data from all 14 events that qualified.

Yes. I believe that our 2nd place pork finish at the Pork Expo isn't being counted... and it should.

There are other teams who have more bonus points than they should using the numbers from the results section of the KCBS site.

Harbormaster
01-02-2009, 12:41 PM
Hey...we only made one contest this year (had to cancel everything else due to work trips) and we were still 1000 from the bottom! Sweet!
I only competed in one, and was in the top 50%!

SWEET!!! I'M A STAR!!!:biggrin:

Ford
01-02-2009, 12:52 PM
Yes. I believe that our 2nd place pork finish at the Pork Expo isn't being counted... and it should.

There are other teams who have more bonus points than they should using the numbers from the results section of the KCBS site.

Not sure the Pork Expo should count. Did you cook all 4 KCBS entries? Also Invitationals don't count as my 3rd in Brisket doesn't show up in my totals.

Double D's BBQ
01-02-2009, 01:05 PM
I'm still struggling with an idea on how to treat all teams fairly. Maybe they should come up with a standard Mulligan % for every team lets say 20%. Teams that participate in 5 contests get 1 Mulligan (drop their lowest contest). Teams that participate in 10 get 2 and so on. The other scores are then averaged by the number of contests left. There is no perfect system but a team participating in 30 contests definitely should not get 20 Mulligans which is what the current system allows and I don't think a team participating in only 5 has a right to lay claim to team of the year over those competing in 20-30 contests a year. I think if you do the divisional thing 10 contests and below, a minimum of 5 to be in the team of the year running, and then 11 and above with the Mulligan % thrown in it might be fair to everyone and stimulate interest in both large and small contests.

The intent however of the new KCBS scoring system however is not to be fair as much as it is to encourage growth in contests across the country and growth in the number of participants in these contests. It is however somewhat of a flawed system as it rewards those disproportionately with the scarce resources of time and money that most (99%) of us are in very short supply of these days. For that reason I do like the concept of a pro and semi pro division for computing KCBS Team of the Year. By making the cutoff 10 contests, teams in the semi-pro division would always have the option of moving up into the pro division by doing more contests at their discretion and the majority of the rest of those that compete would still feel that they would have some skin in the game at the semi-pro level.

Plowboy
01-02-2009, 02:01 PM
Not sure the Pork Expo should count. Did you cook all 4 KCBS entries? Also Invitationals don't count as my 3rd in Brisket doesn't show up in my totals.

It has counted historically for ribs and pork, but not overall.

Scottie
01-02-2009, 03:26 PM
Yes. I believe that our 2nd place pork finish at the Pork Expo isn't being counted... and it should.

There are other teams who have more bonus points than they should using the numbers from the results section of the KCBS site.


My points and standings are all wrong too. As I might have audited a few teams, just to see where I stood.... It's funny, but all my point totals matched Pickled Pigs totals... So good job Paul!!!

n-2-que
01-02-2009, 03:32 PM
upper 3rds in all catregories and 800 in one not bad for us LOL

Plowboy
01-02-2009, 03:37 PM
My points and standings are all wrong too. As I might have audited a few teams, just to see where I stood.... It's funny, but all my point totals matched Pickled Pigs totals... So good job Paul!!!

Shoot an email to KCBS and they'll look at it. I'm hoping for an answer to a couple of questions on Monday.

I went back and did some research and found that indeed the Qlossal Ribs and Pork have been counted for those TOY categories. From my calcs, that should move us to 5th for pork. We'll see. Just happy to be breathing that air. Getting a TOY call has been a dream for some time.

I think 4 Leg's Up pork standing is way wrong. I think his Jack finishes got counted or something like that.

Scottie
01-02-2009, 04:30 PM
Ribs and pork do count from Qlossal. The GAB, ARI and Jack (Invitationals) do not count for anything, except the instant gratifications...

Good job on the pork Todd. Been a drive for me to get a top 10 as well.

Plowboy
01-02-2009, 04:37 PM
Ribs and pork do count from Qlossal. The GAB, ARI and Jack (Invitationals) do not count for anything, except the instant gratifications...

Good job on the pork Todd. Been a drive for me to get a top 10 as well.

Good times!!!

http://www.pork.org/bbqlossal/Images/2008/P3131455Reg.jpg

HoDeDo
01-02-2009, 04:51 PM
I'm still struggling with an idea on how to treat all teams fairly. Maybe they should come up with a standard Mulligan % for every team lets say 20%. Teams that participate in 5 contests get 1 Mulligan (drop their lowest contest). Teams that participate in 10 get 2 and so on. The other scores are then averaged by the number of contests left. There is no perfect system but a team participating in 30 contests definitely should not get 20 Mulligans which is what the current system allows and I don't think a team participating in only 5 has a right to lay claim to team of the year over those competing in 20-30 contests a year. I think if you do the divisional thing 10 contests and below, a minimum of 5 to be in the team of the year running, and then 11 and above with the Mulligan % thrown in it might be fair to everyone and stimulate interest in both large and small contests.

The intent however of the new KCBS scoring system however is not to be fair as much as it is to encourage growth in contests across the country and growth in the number of participants in these contests. It is however somewhat of a flawed system as it rewards those disproportionately with the scarce resources of time and money that most (99%) of us are in very short supply of these days. For that reason I do like the concept of a pro and semi pro division for computing KCBS Team of the Year. By making the cutoff 10 contests, teams in the semi-pro division would always have the option of moving up into the pro division by doing more contests at their discretion and the majority of the rest of those that compete would still feel that they would have some skin in the game at the semi-pro level.

I'm not sure if I agree.... so lets say you have a semi pro at a contest that a pro is at.... do you now have two flights at the contests too, or weight a 5th place "semi pro" finish against a pro finish in the same event? etc, etc?

If you want to be in the running, cook more. If you are a race driver that only runs in 1/2 the races for the season, you will not be in the running for cup. I would hate to think of how complicated it would be to get things separated for a multi-tier system. simpler is better.... IMHO :rolleyes:

Plowboy
01-02-2009, 04:56 PM
I'm not sure if I agree.... so lets say you have a semi pro at a contest that a pro is at.... do you now have two flights at the contests too, or weight a 5th place "semi pro" finish against a pro finish in the same event? etc, etc?

If you want to be in the running, cook more. If you are a race driver that only runs in 1/2 the races for the season, you will not be in the running for cup. I would hate to think of how complicated it would be to get things separated for a multi-tier system. simpler is better.... IMHO :rolleyes:

I was thinking this morning about what is the financial investment into reaching TOY Overall. Munchin Rob did dozens of contests this year. I'd be exhausted and broke.

Wait, I already am.

HoDeDo
01-02-2009, 05:00 PM
I was thinking this morning about what is the financial investment into reaching TOY Overall. Munchin Rob did dozens of contests this year. I'd be exhausted and broke.

Wait, I already am.

Or, just cook 10 and win them, geesh... what an amatuer :rolleyes::twisted:

But you are right - alot of money to spend for braggin' rights.

You are not exhausted though. I know better. :twisted::twisted:

Feb Here we come!

Butcher BBQ
01-02-2009, 05:25 PM
Todd our win at the jack wasn't counted. So I don't think Kellys was.

Double D's BBQ
01-02-2009, 05:27 PM
I'm not sure if I agree.... so lets say you have a semi pro at a contest that a pro is at.... do you now have two flights at the contests too, or weight a 5th place "semi pro" finish against a pro finish in the same event? etc, etc?

If you want to be in the running, cook more. If you are a race driver that only runs in 1/2 the races for the season, you will not be in the running for cup. I would hate to think of how complicated it would be to get things separated for a multi-tier system. simpler is better.... IMHO :rolleyes:

I'm not sure I understand wheat your saying here Andy by two flights, do you mean divisions. In that case I would say no. Teams compete against each without regard to the division that they are in. Points for the two teams of the year are then added up just as they are now with the same point system in place for all teams. Most of the teams that are competing at more than 20 contests a year are doing this full time or have sponsorship backing. Maybe that's the way to separate the two divisions by who has sponsors or who doesn't. I't would be nice if KCBS figure out a system that took care of 99% of its members while still catering to those teams that are the household names for BBQ and are out there doing this full time.

Maybe your NASCAR analogy here is appropriate as NASCAR is run by big money and dominated by a few select teams which seems to be where BBQ contests are headed under this current approach. It just seems to me that those 40 teams or so that have the financial backing and resources to do 30-40 contests a year might have their own division and the rest of us, the other 99% of KCBS fight it out in another. Seems fair to me and gives everyone a chance to compete at a level they can afford. I don't like the idea of giving the top teams 10-30 Mulligans where the backyard teams get none. Does this sound fair to you. It doesn't to me. At least in NASCAR all the races count for the final tally of TOY.

watertowerbbq
01-02-2009, 07:13 PM
I'm not saying finishing 10th out of 25 is a great feat ...

I'd take 10th place :-D:-D........it sure beats DAL

Roo-B-Q'N
01-02-2009, 07:57 PM
control f


THANK YOU!!!!!! Man searching KCBS is a PIA!

We did ok considering we sucked wind at the start of the season.