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JTsBBQ
12-28-2008, 08:38 AM
I will be new to KCBS in 2009. I have been competing ont he SCBA circuit for several years. I have a question about using gas in the KCBS.

1. Can I use a propane weed burner to start the charcoal/wood fire in the fire box as long as there is no meat on the cooker?

2. Can I use a propane stove to heat a fininshing sauce?

I read the rules one way. However, in this month's KCBS Bullsheet it talks about a team being DQ for using a propane torch to finish off some type of entry(probably rubbery skin chicken). I understand that part but they went on to ay propane/gas must not be used in anyway at all.

Any info. would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tim Handy
JT's BBQ

Jorge
12-28-2008, 08:42 AM
I've never heard of anyone having any issues using propane as you plan to.

Spydermike72
12-28-2008, 08:45 AM
Tim, I agree with Jorge, as you describe above you should have no issues.

CajunSmoker
12-28-2008, 09:51 AM
I light all my coals in a chimney on a turkey fryer. Never had anyone question it.

The team that was DQ'd I believe was putting a bark on their brisket with a propane torch.:icon_blush:

JTsBBQ
12-28-2008, 11:27 AM
Thanks guys. I am looking forward to cooking with some of you. I'm sure this is one of many questions to folllow.

I appreciate the help.



Tim
JTs BBQ
www.myspace.com/jtsbbq22 (http://www.myspace.com/jtsbbq22)

HoDeDo
12-28-2008, 01:56 PM
Your uses of propane are fine.


If your pit went out... and you used propane to fire it back up with food in it... that would be a DQ...

If you used a propane or butane torch to finish your skin, that would also be a DQ...

Everything you describe is A-OK.

TexEx
12-28-2008, 03:17 PM
Actually, to me it looks like you cannot use propane (or electric) to heat/cook/hold your sauce. Anything in the hand-in box going to the judges must not have been heated/cooked/held by propane or electric generated heat.

From the KCBS Rules:

"5. Fires shall be of wood, wood pellets or charcoal. Gas and electric
heat sources shall not be permitted for cooking or

holding. Propane or electric is permitted as fire starters,
provided that the competition meat is not in/on the cooking
device. Electrical accessories such as spits, augers, or forced
draft are permitted. No open pits or holes are permitted,
except at the election of the contest organizer. Fires shall not
be built on the ground."




Just my opinion based on the written rules.



Ray

jminion
12-28-2008, 03:23 PM
Tex Ex
When talking about cooking and holding it refers to meat not sauce as long there is no meat in the sauce.

Merl
12-28-2008, 05:13 PM
JT it was a propane used to sear and finish the meat. The flame was applied to the meats, which would be cooking it.

Merl Whitebook
KCBS Board of Directors

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
12-28-2008, 06:57 PM
Actually, to me it looks like you cannot use propane (or electric) to heat/cook/hold your sauce. Anything in the hand-in box going to the judges must not have been heated/cooked/held by propane or electric generated heat.

From the KCBS Rules:

"5. Fires shall be of wood, wood pellets or charcoal. Gas and electric
heat sources shall not be permitted for cooking or

holding. Propane or electric is permitted as fire starters,

provided that the competition meat is not in/on the cooking
device. Electrical accessories such as spits, augers, or forced
draft are permitted. No open pits or holes are permitted,
except at the election of the contest organizer. Fires shall not
be built on the ground."






Just my opinion based on the written rules.




Ray


I do agree with you interpertation (spelling) of the rules. but many teams use other means to heat their sauces etc..it comes down to the reps discretion and interpetion of the rules. I dont think there are any (cough) wrong answers here.
Sal

jminion
12-28-2008, 10:38 PM
I do agree with you interpertation (spelling) of the rules. but many teams use other means to heat their sauces etc..it comes down to the reps discretion and interpetion of the rules. I dont think there are any (cough) wrong answers here.
Sal

As a Rep we take the interpertation from the BOD and it is passed on to all the Reps. If you were heating sauce on propane or electric heat source and were DQ'd because of it, the Rep would be out of line. It is the Rep's job to stay current with interpertation of the rules.

TexEx
12-29-2008, 01:52 PM
As a Rep we take the interpertation from the BOD and it is passed on to all the Reps. If you were heating sauce on propane or electric heat source and were DQ'd because of it, the Rep would be out of line. It is the Rep's job to stay current with interpertation of the rules.

Jim,
I would agree that if the BOD is doing interpretations of the published rules and mandating the Reps to follow their interpretation then by all means yes, that is the way it is, right or wrong.

Two things: Why not publish these interpretations for ALL to see and know, or better yet incorporate them into the rules...
Secondly I thought the Reps were the ones to interpret and enforce the Written Rules.... Sounds like intimidation...

1. The decision and interpretations of the KCBS Rules and Regulations are at the discretion of the KCBS Contest Representatives at the contest. Their decisions and interpretations are final.

Ray

Merl
12-29-2008, 02:14 PM
Ray,
If you notice in the bullsheet the expanded minutes contain the discussion when ever the board makes an advisory or interpretation. It is also e-mailed to every Rep.

If you read the bullsheet minutes, then you are up to date.

I work as a Judge in criminal courts. There the legislature makes the laws, the courts interpret the rules and the police apply them. This is very similar. When the board receives a complaint, it is reviewed. Often time the Board issues an advisory to prevent a problem or multiple interpretations in the future.

Our goal is to have consistency in the process. If you go to one contest and are allowed to bend a rule in the descretion of the rep and go to the next and are dq'ed. I imagine you would be entitled to complain.

Our goal is to have a system where all reps are well trained and we apply the rules in a consistent manner. And yes the board has in the past advised Rep's (privately) they were not correct in a call.

Yours in Que
Merl Whitebook
KCBS Board of Directors

HoDeDo
12-29-2008, 09:00 PM
Jim,
I would agree that if the BOD is doing interpretations of the published rules and mandating the Reps to follow their interpretation then by all means yes, that is the way it is, right or wrong.

Two things: Why not publish these interpretations for ALL to see and know, or better yet incorporate them into the rules...
Secondly I thought the Reps were the ones to interpret and enforce the Written Rules.... Sounds like intimidation...

1. The decision and interpretations of the KCBS Rules and Regulations are at the discretion of the KCBS Contest Representatives at the contest. Their decisions and interpretations are final.


Ray

Ray, As a competitor that travels all over, I like to know that the Reps do have standard interpretations and guidance on the rules. It ensures a modicum of fairness.

As far as the sauce warming goes.... I have never seen the method of sauce warming come up as an issue. All the rules are around cooking of the meat for turnin. Application of sauce does not cook the meat. It is also not required. many folks turn in meat without sauce. If you do turn it in with sauce... Applying the sauce warm or cool would be at the discretion of the cook, as well as how to warm it, as it does not impact how you cook your meat.

JTsBBQ
12-30-2008, 08:32 AM
Great Info.! I really appreciate it.

Tim
JTs BBQ

TexEx
12-30-2008, 10:07 AM
Ray,
If you notice in the bullsheet the expanded minutes contain the discussion when ever the board makes an advisory or interpretation. It is also e-mailed to every Rep.
If you read the bullsheet minutes, then you are up to date.
.................

Our goal is to have consistency in the process. If you go to one contest and are allowed to bend a rule in the descretion of the rep and go to the next and are dq'ed. I imagine you would be entitled to complain.

Our goal is to have a system where all reps are well trained and we apply the rules in a consistent manner. And yes the board has in the past advised Rep's (privately) they were not correct in a call.
KCBS Board of Directors

Merl, (or should I say "Your Honor" :wink: ).
Thanks for the info about the minutes and discussions in the Bullsheet. Unfortunately for me I was not aware of the availabilty of the data to the general membership. I have learned something and that is good.



Ray, As a competitor that travels all over, I like to know that the Reps do have standard interpretations and guidance on the rules. It ensures a modicum of fairness.

As far as the sauce warming goes.... I have never seen the method of sauce warming come up as an issue. All the rules are around cooking of the meat for turnin. Application of sauce does not cook the meat. It is also not required. many folks turn in meat without sauce. If you do turn it in with sauce... Applying the sauce warm or cool would be at the discretion of the cook, as well as how to warm it, as it does not impact how you cook your meat.

Andy I agree, standards and fairness are necessary.
And I also must honor the interpretations of the BOD.

Having said that I personally think if sauce is going into the turn-in box to be tasted/eaten/evaluated by judges and the sauce is cooked (heating = cooking) at the contest site then the sauce should be cooked on a wood fuel source of heat. I am not trying to be argumentive or stubborn, just my opinion.
Thanks for letting me express my thoughts.

Ray

Jacked UP BBQ
12-30-2008, 11:26 AM
What about the spices I toast before I grind them for my rub, on my stove top:mrgreen:

TexEx
12-30-2008, 12:56 PM
Having said that I personally think if sauce is going into the turn-in box to be tasted/eaten/evaluated by judges and the sauce is cooked (heating = cooking) at the contest site then the sauce should be cooked on a wood fuel source of heat.

At The Contest Site is the operative phrase here.



What about the spices I toast before I grind them for my rub, on my stove top:mrgreen:

If you toast the spices at the contest site then I think it should be treated the same as sauce... I would think that toasting and grinding spices for your rub would be something you do before the contest. Just my opinion and don't take me too seriously :!:

Ray :smile: