PDA

View Full Version : KCBS membership demographics by state


Merl
12-25-2008, 10:46 AM
This was in the bullsheet. I think it is interesting.

KCBS membershp demographics by state

2008 Demographics
State # Members # CBJs # Contests State # Members # CBJs # Contests
Alabama 377 313 9 Washington 62 45 0
Alaska 5 0 0 West Virginia 54 48 1
Arizona 80 54 2 Wisconsin 218 176 6
Arkansas 130 90 5 Wyoming 29 27 2
California 291 199 6 Australia 2 1 0
Colorado 272 213 8 Canada 50 31 0
Connecticut 33 20 1 England 4 4 0
Delaware 38 34 1 Estonia 2 2 0
DC 8 7 1 Germany 1 1 0
Florida 359 303 5 Ireland 2 2 0
Georgia 391 298 8 Liechenstein 1 0 0
Hawaii 1 0 0 Mexico 1 1 0
Idaho 25 16 1 Netherlands 1 0 0
Illinois 448 334 14 Norway 1 0 0
Indiana 161 105 4 Switzerland 7 1 0
Iowa 367 316 12
Kansas 1,049 729 34 TOTALS 9,811 7,370 261
Kentucky 107 77 4 80% men
Louisiana 66 38 2 Other interesting facts
Maine 7 4 0 # Master Judges 288
Maryland 188 154 4 # Cert Table Captains 215
Massachusetts 131 116 1 Team names on file 3,689
Michigan 138 92 4 # Different Teams
Minnesota 186 137 5 entered in KCBS
Mississippi 113 88 7 sanctioned contests 4,495
Missouri 1,262 911 42
Montana 6 3 0
Nebraska 212 167 6
Nevada 37 25 1
New Hampshire 44 40 1
New Jersey 138 90 4
New Mexico 76 63 1
New York 331 269 5
North Carolina 245 168 8
North Dakota 38 29 1
Ohio 161 121 3
Oklahoma 312 251 9
Oregon 53 34 1
Pennsylvania 202 156 4
Rhode Island 17 15 0
South Carolina 190 134 5
South Dakota 53 42 2
Tennessee 580 454 16
Texas 107 50 0
Utah 92 86 2
Vermont 18 13 1
Virginia 231 173 2

ThomEmery
12-25-2008, 11:41 AM
Yea I was a lil surprised by some of the totals
Them North Easters are doing a good job in the numbers

Double D's BBQ
12-25-2008, 11:44 AM
Let's have a round of applause for the one member in Hawaii! Is he/she a Brethren?:-D

NotleyQue
12-25-2008, 12:19 PM
Wow, I would never of thought California would have had that many members.
Good for us! We do know good BBQ out here, must be the 365 days of great weather.

Alexa RnQ
12-25-2008, 01:27 PM
And now, in the witless number-crunching events:
I'll be interested to figure out each state's ratio of contests/members, and the average for the six-state area where we range as compared to other parts of the country.

BBQchef33
12-25-2008, 01:58 PM
NY number 10!!


heres the numbers in Excel. Easier to read.

LindaM
12-25-2008, 02:55 PM
Phil,

Small correction to the spreadsheet. NY has 7 contests next year not including Grilling only.

Rochester, Lake Placid, Boston, Troy, New Paltz, Buffalo and Sayville. and yes I mean Boston NY
These are the ones sanctioned already now that is not to say a few more might not pop up

Bbq Bubba
12-25-2008, 02:55 PM
42 farken contests in Missouri.......

Never a dull moment! :twisted:

Mike - CSBBBQ
12-25-2008, 04:20 PM
Didn't see Puerto Rico...they were at the Jack

River City Smokehouse
12-26-2008, 04:14 AM
I knew God put me here right in the middle for a reason.

U2CANQUE
12-26-2008, 08:04 AM
Man, lots of members in OH, now we just have to work on MORE contests.....

bigabyte
12-27-2008, 11:02 PM
So this is proof that KCBS has grown beyond Kansas City? Not trying to stir anything up. Seems to me a lot of talk has been about how KCBS is not just about Kansas City, yet the KS and MO numbers seem to indicate otherwise. I'm personally good with it being more nationally focused. Do we have a change from previous year to measure against to show this growth? If not, then I guess this is the benchmark to set for measuring next years numbers against.

ihbobry
12-28-2008, 07:00 AM
Here's some numbers crunched, (thanks for the spreadsheet Phil) It seems the North East in general and New England specifically are way ahead in Certification and woefully underserved in contest oppertunities.


On the surface of these stats NE BBQ is far more difficult to win or place. And the KCBS needs to attend to cultivating organizers and contests.


Members/CBJ's/contest#'s

New England 250 208 4
New York 331 269 5
KCBS 9,811 7,370 261

% CBJ's
KCBS 75.1
NY 81.3
New England 83.2

# Members per contest

NY/NE 64.6
KCBS 37.6

timzcardz
12-28-2008, 07:32 AM
NY number 10!!


heres the numbers in Excel. Easier to read.


Actually NY is Number 9!

But who's counting?

MilitantSquatter
12-28-2008, 08:06 AM
Here's some numbers crunched, (thanks for the spreadsheet Phil) It seems the North East in general and New England specifically are way ahead in Certification and woefully underserved in contest oppertunities.


On the surface of these stats NE BBQ is far more difficult to win or place. And the KCBS needs to attend to cultivating organizers and contests.


Members/CBJ's/contest#'s

New England 250 208 4
New York 331 269 5
KCBS 9,811 7,370 261

% CBJ's
KCBS 75.1
NY 81.3
New England 83.2

# Members per contest

NY/NE 64.6
KCBS 37.6

I don't think you can use # of members/contest to assess how hard/easy it is to win in a given area... Applying the total # of CBJ's into a % of total is not fair since it is very possibly that CBJ's are not the one's competing.

What KCBS doesn't show in these #'s is the breakdown of registered competition teams per state which is part of what would be needed to determine where the ideal concentration of contest locations should be. I would like to think demand would ultimately determine this.


As for regionalization - At first I thought it made sense, but the more i think about it I feel it just adds a level of unneeded bureacracy. There could be some small benefits but I don't see how it helps that much more. (Ex. if there are a member in 44 members in New Hampsire, if the nearest BOD member is in NY/NJ/CT as an example, how does that make any difference on the day to day or long term issues ?

I think it should ultimately go to who the most qualified candidates are, not a waterded down field based on zip code. Giving members more access to BOD meetings and also providing better forums for communication (like this BOD forum) will allow the members to get a better feel as to who has the best interests at heart regardless of home state.

Double D's BBQ
12-28-2008, 08:10 AM
I find the stats interesting as well but it seems that the whole purpose for releasing this info was to have the numbers crunched in case KCBS moves toward regional representatives.

Personally I don't see the need for it. Others have strong opinions for it. The way I see it is that KCBS is a national organization that promotes a regional style of BBQ that we all enjoy. Personally I could care less if I have someone from Ohio or Michigan or Indiana as my representative. All I care about is being able to vote for the most qualified candidate (in my opinion at least) on the ballet no more where he resides. I'm not sure what regional representation gets you because under the current system all members are considered equal. Under a regional system we would be divided up much like congress and our opinion would be worth less. That's why the founding fathers implemented the Senate so that they could override the decisions of the dominate states and give every state an equal voice. For now I'm all in favor of one man, one vote for KCBS. It's really kind of simple. If you want more representation in your state, recruit new members and/or run for office. This will help both the organization, your region, and the sport of competition BBQ.

ThomEmery
12-28-2008, 09:01 AM
If it were that simple :)
There are problems nationally that some folks wouldnt see
Example many on the current BoD did not know that the
Pacific North West was for the most part gone doing it own thing
in BBQ. Another, Ohio has far too few contests If a activist BoD member
were working that issue change would happen
Stay with what we have and reelect nice guys who "no report"
for three years Sorry thats not a good idea

MilitantSquatter
12-28-2008, 09:33 AM
If it were that simple :)
There are problems nationally that some folks wouldnt see
Example many on the current BoD did not know that the
Pacific North West was for the most part gone doing it own thing
in BBQ. Another, Ohio has far too few contests If a activist BoD member
were working that issue change would happen
Stay with what we have and reelect nice guys who "no report"
for three years Sorry thats not a good idea


Tom - Please explain how you believe a potential regional rep from Lexington, KY or Pittsburgh, PA (border states of OH) could have a direct positive influence on creation of contests in OH ? Also curious as to why you believe OH has too few contests (3) Seems to be proportionate to many of the other states.

I agree with you on the No Reports, but that can happen in the current state or regional... No guarantees either way.

ThomEmery
12-28-2008, 09:51 AM
Well maybe I am projecting a bit on this
When I started out in BBQ 3 and a half years ago
there where no contests within 100 miles of my home
Now there are 8 with 4 more as proposed
(not all KCBS)
Some of that is because I am nuts
and some is because I worked it.
My BoD time at CBBQA has helped in this
My thoughts were if a KCBS BoD member was working a issue
like more contests for certain area of the country he or she
could grow the thing Again maybe its projection on my part

Bottom line is you can make things happen if ya work em
And a group of "no reports" aint workin it

ThomEmery
12-28-2008, 09:55 AM
This isnt really the central issue here
The unrepresented areas of the country
need a couple of seats out of the 12
The strong areas will still dominate
as they should they have the numbers
We are just asking for a couple of seats
thats all

ihbobry
12-28-2008, 10:46 AM
I don't think you can use # of members/contest to assess how hard/easy it is to win in a given area... Applying the total # of CBJ's into a % of total is not fair since it is very possibly that CBJ's are not the one's competing.

What KCBS doesn't show in these #'s is the breakdown of registered competition teams per state which is part of what would be needed to determine where the ideal concentration of contest locations should be. I would like to think demand would ultimately determine this.



Yes, I am cherry picking numbers, but I tried to keep them simple and honest.

I would have to believe % of CBJ's a simple (not perfect) way to get a feel for active interest/participation in the sport. Also it's reflective of perhaps better organization in the NE when it comes to finding, recruiting, retention and training.

I think contest to membership ratio would be a reasonable way to gauge competition level. (# of teams = a percentage of membership) I really doubt the NE has twice as many members per team than the national average. But I think it is reasonable to say for every x members there are y+/- teams.

Then if we have a feel for the number of teams, and the appearant fact that these teams regionally have half the number of contests to enter per member, and are judged by a higher percentage of CBJ's I'd say it's not unreasonable to conclude it's tougher to win here, and that those that do...:rolleyes: I'ts like playing in the AL East.

JD McGee
12-28-2008, 11:29 AM
Washington state isn't even listed...:eek::eek::eek: How sad is that!

MilitantSquatter
12-28-2008, 12:02 PM
Washington state isn't even listed...:eek::eek::eek: How sad is that!

They are at the top next to Alabama... list format is off.

The Excel attachment is easier to read

Bentley
12-28-2008, 12:43 PM
Thom,

So you would be infavor of KCBS BoD's promoting & running BBQ contests?

Double D's BBQ
12-28-2008, 01:12 PM
Thom, I'm still confused at the rational for this. I've been competing for over three years now and we still don't have a contest within a 100 miles of where I live despite haveing the largest metro area in the state (Cleveland). I don't see regional reps solving this problems as it is more entreprenuerial minded people that usually start these contests and then seek KCBS sanctioning. I wasn't aware that KCBS was involved at the grass roots level starting contests in geographic areas outside of KC. Correct me on this if I'm wrong, I may well be. We now have added an additional contest next year but its in the same area, SW Ohio where all the other contests are which leads me more to believe that these contest tend to spread out more from the center of the first contest and blossom from there. If KCBS is involved with starting contests, then they are missing a golden opportunity for expanding into Cleveland and Columbus or even Toledo for that matter. But I don't believe that is their function.

I still like to believe that KCBS reps represent all the members not just those where they reside. The representation issue reminds me more of Congress and if there has ever been a larger group of people assembled on this earth that can't get anything done or just plain old screw things up, I'm not aware of it. Let's try and stay away from that model.

Dallas

ThomEmery
12-28-2008, 01:44 PM
Guys I know I am nuts and not a good example
But If you make something a priority you can work it
Board Membes can raise a priority

I am now seeing contests that I dont run at all coming in
They just need someone to hold their hand when they get going
Someone has to do that

Bentley
12-28-2008, 02:33 PM
Guys I know I am nuts and not a good example
But If you make something a priority you can work it
Board Membes can raise a priority

I am now seeing contests that I dont run at all coming in
They just need someone to hold their hand when they get going
Someone has to do that

I agree with you. I am not sure the KCBS BoD does.

SaucyWench
12-28-2008, 03:20 PM
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there are too many CBJs in proportion to the member numbers. Kinda like people are only joining because they must, not because they really want to be members of KCBS. I can always figure out where a class was held by looking at the new members list in the Bullsheet.

I feel like the membership is being inflated by the membership requirement of CBJ classes. These numbers say that almost 3/4 of all members are CBJs, which seems like a lot. I'd like to see more people joining KCBS because they want to, not because they have to.

MilitantSquatter
12-28-2008, 03:48 PM
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there are too many CBJs in proportion to the member numbers. Kinda like people are only joining because they must, not because they really want to be members of KCBS. I can always figure out where a class was held by looking at the new members list in the Bullsheet.

I feel like the membership is being inflated by the membership requirement of CBJ classes. These numbers say that almost 3/4 of all members are CBJs, which seems like a lot. I'd like to see more people joining KCBS because they want to, not because they have to.

KCBS does a good job of selling the CBJ aspect to those who find out about the class and have some initial interest. At the time I first took the class in 2005, I did not think twice about spending $35 to become a "Certified Barbeque Judge". It seemed so official and important and a fun thing to do to get started in competition BBQ and the society as a whole. On the flip side, it does not require teams to be paid members but the believe is that most teams are or will eventually join.

At present time, IMO KCBS does not do a good job of drawing interest and providing benefits from those who do not care to judge or compete so I think there would a relatively low % of backyard enthusiasts.

I wonder what % of the CBJ's actually judge at least one contest per year or what the turnover rate is for non-renewed memberships...

Double D's BBQ
12-28-2008, 03:56 PM
The number of CBJ's are probably somewhat inflated to as a percentage of the overall membership. I joined KCBS first because I was really into learning about BBQ, then decided to compete. Towards the end of our first year of competition, I thought it might help to take a CBJ class to at least know what the judges are taught to look for. I have not judge or really have any intention of judging for the time being, at least not while I'm still competing. I think that there are many cooks in the same situation, they are listed as CBJ's but have never judged a contest.

Bentley
12-28-2008, 04:16 PM
Maybe it's just me...Kinda like people are only joining because they must, not because they really want to be members of KCBS.


It aint just you!

You just describe why I re-joined KCBS.

Would I be a member if I did not have to be? Take a farken wild guess at the answer! But does KCBS care, hell no, they have my $35 thats all they care about!

SaucyWench
12-28-2008, 04:19 PM
I wonder what % of the CBJ's actually judge at least one contest per year or what the turnover rate is for non-renewed memberships...

The number posted for total (active, I assume) CBJs is 7,370. I'm number 3465, I've met judges whose numbers are in the upper 20,000's, so obviously there are a carpload who were certified, but didn't stay at it or keep up their dues. That's one of the reasons I'm not super impressed when comps say they have 100% CBJs, you may have a bunch of newbies who will never judge again.

LindaM
12-28-2008, 04:59 PM
Just an FYI when we went to online voting Spouses needed to have their own numbers so shortly after Judge #10,000 was issued they jumped to 20,000 for the convenience of the database entries. Now both the membership number and CBJ number is the same.

KC_Bobby
12-28-2008, 06:55 PM
It aint just you!

You just describe why I re-joined KCBS.

Would I be a member if I did not have to be? Take a farken wild guess at the answer! But does KCBS care, hell no, they have my $35 thats all they care about!

So why did you renew your membership?

SaucyWench
12-28-2008, 07:21 PM
Just an FYI when we went to online voting Spouses needed to have their own numbers so shortly after Judge #10,000 was issued they jumped to 20,000 for the convenience of the database entries. Now both the membership number and CBJ number is the same.

I remember reading that the membership number and CBJ number were supposed to be the same, but even though we went to family membership a couple years ago, I still have totally different member and CBJ numbers.

Dang, I'm having a KCBS identity crisis!

JD McGee
12-28-2008, 08:13 PM
They are at the top next to Alabama... list format is off.

The Excel attachment is easier to read

Whew...thanks Vinny...for a while there I thought we didn't exist! :-P Still...the numbers speak volumes. Washington 62 45 0 Not a single KCBS event. I think the only ones we had last year were in Oregon. I may have to look more in to the reasons we're not doing any KCBS comps. I'm a member of the PNWBA (Pacific Northwest BBQ Association) and have heard bits and pieces of conversations...but I'm not one to meddle with local politics and such. I'll check with Swamprb...he may be more in touch.

Bentley
12-28-2008, 08:42 PM
So why did you renew your membership?


Because I want to judge some contests this year. Primarly StageCoach, because it has 2 KCBS events in 2 days so kills 2 birds with one stone. It is a popular contest and an even more popular concert. It is 4 months away and you cannot find a hotel room within 10 miles. I could care less about the music, country is not my cup of tea! But if you are a judge, you get into a $100 concert free. I imagine that is a farily long line! Here in CA we do not get many 100% CBJ contests, some teams out here think it should always be 100% CBJ and are getting mad when they are not, puts a little more pressure on the promoter that cares.

Could I have applied to judge as an ex-CBJ? Yes. Could I have been turned down as an ex-CBJ? Is the person who selects the judges going to have a harder time passing up a six year CBJ who has judged multipul events over the VIP or average Joe who just wants a ticket to the concert? I hope so, thats why I renewed my membership. I did not want to roll the dice! If I dont get picked and its not 100% CBJ, I can promise you I will be the 1st to let you know!

That is the only reason I renewed my membership!

ThomEmery
12-28-2008, 10:22 PM
[/QUOTE] If I dont get picked and its not 100% CBJ, I can promise you I will be the 1st to let you know!

That is the only reason I renewed my membership![/QUOTE]


Ya Just dont know when to stop do ya?

MilitantSquatter
12-29-2008, 06:13 PM
Guys - This thread is about KCBS demographics by state, not judging status at a specific contest.

Please take offline via PM.

Thanks !!

SmokeInDaEye
12-29-2008, 07:29 PM
Phil,

Small correction to the spreadsheet. NY has 7 contests next year not including Grilling only.

Rochester, Lake Placid, Boston, Troy, New Paltz, Buffalo and Sayville. and yes I mean Boston NY
These are the ones sanctioned already now that is not to say a few more might not pop up

Thanks, Linda. I wish there was a way to organize the contest calendar by state on the KCBS website so folks could easily see when a new contest is added in their area, when it is, etc.

Double D's BBQ
12-29-2008, 07:54 PM
There is just type in the state in the search screen and the dates you want included in the state. Here is the calendar for NY for 2009 using the search function on the KCBS website.

http://www.kcbs.us/events.php?str=ny&fromDate=01%2F01%2F09&toDate=12%2F31%2F09&x=0&y=0

CivilWarBBQ
12-29-2008, 09:48 PM
I'm confused by the total number of KCBS members. Is that the number of paid members for 2008? If so it would seem to indicate a huge increase from 2007, at least if you extrapolate from the tax return statement of dues revenue.

Merl
12-29-2008, 10:43 PM
There was a large increase when CBJ verification progam began last year.

SmokeInDaEye
12-30-2008, 05:13 PM
There is just type in the state in the search screen and the dates you want included in the state. Here is the calendar for NY for 2009 using the search function on the KCBS website.

http://www.kcbs.us/events.php?str=ny&fromDate=01%2F01%2F09&toDate=12%2F31%2F09&x=0&y=0

Glad to see they took my advice.:wink:

Also nice to see that Hudson Valley and New Holland are two weeks apart this year. I've been wanting to go back to that one for a while.