PDA

View Full Version : The Money (Long)


jbrink01
12-10-2008, 12:45 PM
OK, maybe I'm just slow on the uptake, but I've got 1 nagging question. Reading another thread a comment was made about not going to the Jack, because the payday was light. I agree it's light, but if you do contests, it ain't for the money. I'd cook the Jack no matter the cost if invited.

Then Scottie (CSC) made a comment that it was about the money and his foundation. Agreed, great cause, but - nagging question is back!

How much money can be made as a function of the contest circuit from prize money and associated ancilliary sources? I know that if I cater 2 days any given week for 200 people each time, that I can generate somewhere in the neighborhood of $4000 - $6000 in revenue.

How can contests, with all the variables taken into consideration, be a viable revenue stream?

jbrink01
12-10-2008, 03:58 PM
Guess I'm the only one that can't figure it out. Hmph.

backporchbbq
12-10-2008, 04:08 PM
We don't expect to break even at contests. If we did we would be highly disappointed. Doing comps is not for the money, it is for the fun and friendship.

Jeff_in_KC
12-10-2008, 04:09 PM
I think contests can be "about the money" without being a viable revenue stream. Mainly because cooks are looking to recoup expenses. Most hobbies don't allow for recouping expenses unless you do them competitively. To me, being about the money just means that I get to make back some of the cash I've put out to enter, not that I'm earning a living at it (God forbid I ever had to rely on my Qing abilities). This allows me to enter more contests to continue to do the thing that I enjoy.
Problem is, there are so many expenses for numerous contests and I can't make it all up on one or two so it isn't a viable revenue stream.

jbrink01
12-10-2008, 04:23 PM
Jeff,
Makes perfect sense, sort of our philosiphy. I was just intrigued by Scotties comment that it was about the money. I see some teams pouring what appear to be huge amounts of money into contests (it costs us $500 - $1000 each) so if you go do 10 or 20, it's getting really expensive.

scottyd
12-10-2008, 04:26 PM
Well I darn sure know the contests are not about the money for us as I would go broke. We go for the friends. Piss of the people who don't like us so what.hahahaha I do however like the cash cash cash I think that is why my middle name is Grant or Cash. Yep it is Cash anyway I like cash so it is for the cash.

I guess I lied I am in it for the money. grin smiley face guy should be here now. but I can't find him.

Brew-B-Q
12-10-2008, 04:44 PM
I did 4 contests this past year, which was my first. I broke even or made a tiny amount in two of them. I agree that it's about the experience more than anything, but it is definitely nice to come home with a check.

As for a viable revenue stream, I can't imagine that. If I won 10 GC in a year, I couldn't replace close to my normal job. Now there's something to be said for Q-ing competively for a living, no boss, etc. I guess it comes down to how much sponsors will pay, but I doubt it's that much. Especially in the upcoming year with everyone cutting back on expenses.

I don't think it's wrong to approach this like a business, to some degree. But I agree, if I was just looking to make money I would unfortunately be dissapointed more often than not.

Scottie
12-10-2008, 05:47 PM
It's about the money for me, because that is what my foundation is all about. I chose to tie my hobby into something that I believe strongly with. Raising money to find a cure for cancer. So if I am able to make money at a bbq contest, in the end, it's a victory for a cause. Granted, I get to keep the hardware....

Buster Dog BBQ
12-10-2008, 06:16 PM
I read in the paper a guy who made over $40,000 one year in prize money. If you do enough contest and your consistently good you will make some good money. Then sponsors come in and soon you aren't paying for a whole lot out of your pocket.

Dale P
12-10-2008, 06:31 PM
Breaking even is a bonus for us. All of the fun for free!

Jorge
12-10-2008, 06:41 PM
I read in the paper a guy who made over $40,000 one year in prize money. If you do enough contest and your consistently good you will make some good money. Then sponsors come in and soon you aren't paying for a whole lot out of your pocket.

If you cook enough, and you are good enough it could be done I guess. That's a hard way to earn 40K though.

backporchbbq
12-10-2008, 08:36 PM
Well I darn sure know the contests are not about the money for us as I would go broke. We go for the friends. Piss of the people who don't like us so what.hahahaha I do however like the cash cash cash I think that is why my middle name is Grant or Cash. Yep it is Cash anyway I like cash so it is for the cash.

I guess I lied I am in it for the money. grin smiley face guy should be here now. but I can't find him.


I agree that it is not all about money. We all like winning and getting some cash back. I know the very very few times we have gotten a call our team does not split the money. We put it back in the pool for our next comp. But regardless it is a lot of fun and get to meet really nice people.

Pickin' Porkers
12-10-2008, 09:10 PM
That was my post originally referenced and as I said...I was gonna get pounded for my view...which is OK. I knew I would be stepping on the pride of those that may have done well at the Jack and my sincere congrats to them for their excellence! It apparently means a lot. To us however, I would take as much pride in a win we had in non-sanctioned South Carolina event as the Jack. J.D.'s make darn good booze but DO NOT take care of the winners with accepatable cash prizes considering the prestige their marketing department has been successful in creating for this brand. MANY other contest pay out a WHOLE lot more and unfortunately do not carry the recognition because they use their earned income for nonprofit purposes. AND worse, the KCBS plays right into this nonsanctioned (I believe) cook. Why other contest organizers are not up in arms with it is a suprise to me!

We do in excess of 20 contests a year and we HAVE to be aware of the potential winnings or losses. because that is a HUGE cut into my personal funds. As a viable revenue stream....I would not hold my breath! To help pay for this expensive hobby is wonderul!

As Myron Mixon said once...and not an original phrase....but..."it's all about getting paid. Winning is fun to me." I agree.

Tinybud
12-10-2008, 11:56 PM
I like Scottie's view on things, with his winnings going to his foundation to raise money for a cancer cure is awesome, my wife and I both are involved in our local relay for life, and I'm also a volunteer for the ACS road to recovery program, and once we get out comps skills up to par and get into the money, we'll be donating part of it to the acs,,cause we need to find a cure,, and it takes money to do that,, ,Keep up the good work scottie,, and its all about the money, money,,,yeah,,yeah,,,, I'm always looking for more ways to raise money in our area to help.

backporchbbq
12-11-2008, 12:02 AM
I like Scottie's view on things, with his winnings going to his foundation to raise money for a cancer cure is awesome, my wife and I both are involved in our local relay for life, and I'm also a volunteer for the ACS road to recovery program, and once we get out comps skills up to par and get into the money, we'll be donating part of it to the acs,,cause we need to find a cure,, and it takes money to do that,, ,Keep up the good work scottie,, and its all about the money, money,,,yeah,,yeah,,,, I'm always looking for more ways to raise money in our area to help.


I :eusa_clap:eusa_clap:eusa_clap you and Scottie. If we had more people like this in the world it would be a much better place.

Chuckwagonbbqco
12-11-2008, 01:32 AM
The best way to make a small fortune in BBQ, is to start out with a large fortune.

Behind every BBQer there is a spouse with a job in town.

Jeff_in_KC
12-11-2008, 09:35 AM
The best way to make a small fortune in BBQ, is to start out with a large fortune.

That is the absolute best quote about BBQ competitions I've ever heard! :lol: You nailed it!

Babyboomerboy
12-11-2008, 09:50 AM
I have a question about the pay out of an event. What would be a fair pay out if the event had 20 to 25 teams cooking? How much for the GC, RGC, and 1st in each of the four meat categories?

Jacked UP BBQ
12-11-2008, 09:55 AM
1st per cat - 500
reserve 1000
grand 1500-2000

Alexa RnQ
12-11-2008, 10:45 AM
It's not about the money, but it is about the money.

"About the money" is as nebulous a term as "viable income stream", and that's why it's like trying to grab a handful of jello.

When a team is approaching contests from a purely-hobby standpoint, it's not about the money. It's a money-sucking pastime just like many others -- you pay to play.

When a team approaches a level of consistency that gives them a shot at payouts when they go, the money starts to factor in. How far did you travel to get there? With gas prices this last summer, that was a huge factor in expenses (for us at least). You start to quantify what expenses are, whether you're in the black for a contest or for the season.

Once you're in the black, then it's more about the money. You get to like not being upside-down. And a contest either has a payout for you in terms of money, or something else you want, be it points, prestige or the chance to see somebody.

A "viable income stream" depends entirely upon definition. Does "viable" underwrite the contest endeavors, or are we talking about making a living? It's entirely possible to have contest payouts keep ahead of contest expenses, even without sponsorship. I don't see a whole lot of people deriving their living from it, though. $40K in prize money is a different animal when it's accrued through thirty or more contests, and expenses are pretty close to income.

So, I guess, I fall back on what I tell VQ:
"Competing isn't expensive. Losing is expensive."

Jacked UP BBQ
12-11-2008, 12:13 PM
40k in prize money cost 25k to make.

jminion
12-11-2008, 03:23 PM
In the PNW there is a group that has had a number of contests that if you won it would not cover the cost of doing that contest, I woud not even think about entering those contests.

HBMTN
12-11-2008, 03:38 PM
What little while I have competed it is about the competition of it all to see how well we can finish, along with meeting new friend and having a good time. Sort of like NASCAR until the early 90's nascar was a bunch of somewhat known people spending a ton of money to tear cars up on Sundays. Then along comes Tom Cruise and films Days Of Thunder and NASCAR sky rockets to huge money and most popular sport. Between building a pits and everything I bought to start competing I must a spent $15,000 this year, and our team brought in a whopping $50.00 in winnings and I could'nt be happier. This year though I am going for $75.00 :wink:

BBQchef33
12-11-2008, 03:39 PM
How can contests, with all the variables taken into consideration, be a viable revenue stream?



i think that depends who u ask, but IMO, it can never be as profitable as a real job, or catering event. You would have to do multiple contests in a week


AND WIN each time

in order to generate supporting income. Not gas money and meat money, but $$ to support yourself or you family. Now unless u have sponsors paying you just to show up and hawk their products, prize money cant cover that on a regular basis. But Im sure the top teams that ocmpete every week generate a good buck.

Now.. if u ask me..... this hobby is both, a BBQ pit AND a Money pit.

Podge
12-11-2008, 03:51 PM
What little while I have competed it is about the competition of it all to see how well we can finish, along with meeting new friend and having a good time. Sort of like NASCAR until the early 90's nascar was a bunch of somewhat known people spending a ton of money to tear cars up on Sundays. Then along comes Tom Cruise and films Days Of Thunder and NASCAR sky rockets to huge money and most popular sport. Between building a pits and everything I bought to start competing I must a spent $15,000 this year, and our team brought in a whopping $50.00 in winnings and I could'nt be happier. This year though I am going for $75.00 :wink:

I guess what we really need then is a movie about BBQ competitions. The thing about Days of Thunder, that the racing scenes themselves were so much out of reality !!! So, I reckon that a BBQ movie would be the same way.

I can see it now: beautiful skies, 18 wheelers lined up with huge smokers and cooking teams of 20+ people, tens of thousands of fans walking along, piles of ice free for the taking, Huge flyover for the 9:22 shot, and at awards, golden statues and wheel barrels full of money.

There.... that'll make it as real to BBQ as Days of Thunder was to NASCAR !!:lol:

Jorge
12-11-2008, 04:10 PM
I guess what we really need then is a movie about BBQ competitions. The thing about Days of Thunder, that the racing scenes themselves were so much out of reality !!! So, I reckon that a BBQ movie would be the same way.

I can see it now: beautiful skies, 18 wheelers lined up with huge smokers and cooking teams of 20+ people, tens of thousands of fans walking along, piles of ice free for the taking, Huge flyover for the 9:22 shot, and at awards, golden statues and wheel barrels full of money.

There.... that'll make it as real to BBQ as Days of Thunder was to NASCAR !!:lol:

You forgot the groupies. The cardboard cutout of Shania I've seen doesn't qualify:wink:

scottyd
12-11-2008, 04:29 PM
ok ok ok you can not make a living doing contests. But it would be fun trying.

Maybe I will do a book deal and call it how to over cook your Ribs to get attention.

Or maybe I will do the next best thing and have a throw down with ________________________ who ever where ever for whatever! huh.

Maybe it's been along day at the office.

Scottie
12-11-2008, 04:33 PM
You forgot the groupies. The cardboard cutout of Shania I've seen doesn't qualify:wink:


Cardboard? She was so stiff from seeing us, she didn't know what to do...

Or was that us? I don't remember...

ihbobry
12-11-2008, 04:53 PM
40k in prize money cost 25k to make.

Show me & I'll have 100k in the BBQ budget tomorrow.

please make wid' da' 'splainin' of such ecomomics

HBMTN
12-11-2008, 05:10 PM
Podge I like the way your thinking! I can see the dew across the fields now early in the morning as the smoke rises and the background music starts to play as the new guy nobody preps his winning turn in box to win the JD World Championships, this movie would have to be Rated R with all the alcohol the would be in it.

jbrink01
12-11-2008, 05:24 PM
I love the above dissertations, dissention, and opinions, but to get more to my point, and I'll be blunt;

Scottie (CSC); If it is about the money and the foundation, how do you makie it pay? It would be easier for me to cater and then start writing checks to the foundation of my choice. (Actually, we do a couple caterings a year at No Charge as benefit events). Now, not being completely stupid, (just marginally so) I understand some of the taxation ramifications of not for profits as my wife is an accountant. Just thinking out loud.

Podge
12-11-2008, 05:56 PM
You forgot the groupies. The cardboard cutout of Shania I've seen doesn't qualify:wink:

I didn't include the groupies, because that happens in real life, and cardboard groupies count... don't they ? :grin:

Dale P
12-11-2008, 07:25 PM
from that pic I just figured out what I am missing and must get asap.







AN APRON!

Scottie
12-11-2008, 07:33 PM
Scottie (CSC); If it is about the money and the foundation, how do you makie it pay? It would be easier for me to cater and then start writing checks to the foundation of my choice. (Actually, we do a couple caterings a year at No Charge as benefit events). Now, not being completely stupid, (just marginally so) I understand some of the taxation ramifications of not for profits as my wife is an accountant. Just thinking out loud.



There are plenty of contests that I am not making money. When I started out in this, I decided it wasn't about the money. My cause is more important to me. So that is why I chose to do it my way. Do I wish sometimes that I did it different? I wouldn't change a thing. I am secure enough with my job, that any money I did win, would just be a headache. I haven't added it up, but my guess is that my donations will be around $5k? That's a guess though. Honestly, I would of done a heck of a lot better if not for the gas prices this summer.

Officially, my bbq team and my foundation are 2 completely different entities. My team is not a 501c3, but my foundation is. So basically any money that I donate is just like if Joe the plumber made a donation.

jbrink01
12-12-2008, 10:09 AM
Scottie,
Thank you for the insight, and in all seriuosness, I applaud your forthright and admirable response. I lost my dad to cancer, and you are to be commended.

Stoke&Smoke
12-12-2008, 11:16 AM
I read in the paper a guy who made over $40,000 one year in prize money. If you do enough contest and your consistently good you will make some good money. Then sponsors come in and soon you aren't paying for a whole lot out of your pocket.



Did the article say if it was before or after factoring in his cost to compete?

Scottie
12-12-2008, 11:28 AM
Scottie,
Thank you for the insight, and in all seriuosness, I applaud your forthright and admirable response. I lost my dad to cancer, and you are to be commended.

Thanks man. I never imagined it this way when I started all of this. As BBQ is a hobby and who would ever think that a hobby could fuel a cause? It seemed like a good idea, I just never thought it would work. I can say that I have heard a lot of stories from folks out on the road. Which is just as cool as can be for me. I can honestly say I will never forget a few people, from cooks to people just off the street that have approached me over the years. What did they want to say? Thank you. Those 2 little words mean more to me than any comp BBQ money ever would for me. Hopefully I am also teaching my girls about all of this too. While it will never ease their pain of not having their mommy, the number of new friends and family that they have gained is amazing. Not to mention they have seen some pretty cool parts of the country... Working on some plans to see some new parts of the country for next year, if it all works out... 8-)

VGuilford
12-12-2008, 03:12 PM
(God forbid I ever had to rely on my Qing abilities)
We all know you would get carpal tunnel from shaving all those chickens. Then you couldn't file for workmens comp.

Jeff_in_KC
12-12-2008, 09:48 PM
Thanks man. I never imagined it this way when I started all of this. As BBQ is a hobby and who would ever think that a hobby could fuel a cause? It seemed like a good idea, I just never thought it would work. I can say that I have heard a lot of stories from folks out on the road. Which is just as cool as can be for me. I can honestly say I will never forget a few people, from cooks to people just off the street that have approached me over the years. What did they want to say? Thank you. Those 2 little words mean more to me than any comp BBQ money ever would for me. Hopefully I am also teaching my girls about all of this too. While it will never ease their pain of not having their mommy, the number of new friends and family that they have gained is amazing. Not to mention they have seen some pretty cool parts of the country... Working on some plans to see some new parts of the country for next year, if it all works out... 8-)

Scottie, you have my utmost admiration as well. I don't know how you do it but I've thought in the past how I would explain things... how I would go on and the simplest things you take for granted... like how the hell do I fix my daughter's hair in the morning? I have no clue. Your daughters are fortunate to have a man like yourself for a father.

Scottie
12-12-2008, 10:30 PM
I had no clue either Jeff. Still don't have a clue on a lot of things. What we lack in some things, we make up in other things. I am proud of my girls for adapting to life without their mommy and having to put up with me.

I still can't French braid my girls hair though. So there is still plenty for me to learn.