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Podge
11-21-2008, 09:20 AM
Ok, duh, the economy is bad..

What will happen to the Competition BBQ World next year. What, if anything, is KCBS BOD's planning to minimize the effect of the economy on the organization ?

For a lot of contests last year, seems the attendance was down, and things were seemingly good for the most part with the exception of gas prices.

If you are a contest organizer, how will this affect your contest ? Will you still plan on having one ?

If you are a competitor, or a judge, will you change your schedule and eliminate some contests ?

This hobby takes money, a lot of money.. there'll be a lot of us across the board next year that won't have near as much money as previous years.

I want to see Competition BBQ alive for several more years to come. Just wanting to get a warm and fuzzy feeling that things will be ok over the next year or two when times are tough.

Jacked UP BBQ
11-21-2008, 09:58 AM
I think everything should be fine. I think since gas prices are down that everything should be fine. I believe people will still put money aside for things they enjoy. I am planning a contest and I am going to still go through with it, economic crisis or not. As far as the BOD's go, I don't think there is much they can do about the financial situation. I will compete. I hope to see a lot of people there.

The Pickled Pig
11-21-2008, 10:02 AM
For a lot of contests last year, seems the attendance was down, and things were seemingly good for the most part with the exception of gas prices.

Attendance at each contest was slightly down this year. However, I think that is a result of there being more contests to choose from rather than a decline in interest.

2008 YTD - 257 contests - 10118 teams - Avg 39 teams/contest
2007 YTD - 229 contests - 9496 teams - Avg 41 teams/contest

So by my count there have been 28 more contests this year (up 12.2%) and 622 more teams (up 6.5%).



If you are a competitor, or a judge, will you change your schedule and eliminate some contests ?


We haven't discussed any planning issues yet so I don't know how many comps we'll do next year. It's likely that we do fewer next year though. Like you, I suspect current teams will be cutting back a little but the growth of the sport may be enough to offset that shrinkage.

I do know that I am going to be extremely choosy about which contests we do. There will be 65+ events within a couple of hours of KC so there is no reason to tolerate cramped quarters, poor amenities, or poor organization. I hope organizers take that to heart and get the prize monies up to where they should be.

Sledneck
11-21-2008, 10:25 AM
I swore I was going to cut back especially since I am going to make the trek to the royal and the jack next year yet it looks like I will be doing more than I did last year with the addition of a few contests this year coming. I just cant resist it is a terrible disease and I need help/ Hello my name is Sled and I am a competitionaholic

Plowboy
11-21-2008, 10:36 AM
Maybe they should charge an extra $25 for non-KCBS members. Oh, wait...nevermind.

Podge
11-21-2008, 10:38 AM
Pickled Pig, you're awesome for keeping those kind of statistics and I really enjoy your site !!:grin: good work !!

I've started going thru my potential contest list, and since there seems to be a couple more contests close to my house, it seems my travel at least will be less next year.

bbqczar
11-21-2008, 11:04 AM
I don't know about alot of people,but I will also be doing the pick and chose method when it comes to contests next year.I think the economy is going to get alot worse by this time next year.I think when unemployment reaches near 10% or above it will affect the contests for sure.I can't see how some who will be unemployed,and there will be alot ,could afford to do contests,they will have to save and pinch every penny.I also think that sponsor money may dry up fast,leaving alot of contests to cancel or cut way,way,back on prize money.I also don't think that gas prices will stay this low for long,OPEC will cut production soon and they will rise quite a bit probably after the first of the year. I personally think the economy will affect everyone and things will be alot worse this time next year.

Plowboy
11-21-2008, 11:11 AM
I don't know about alot of people,but I will also be doing the pick and chose method when it comes to contests next year.I think the economy is going to get alot worse by this time next year.I think when unemployment reaches near 10% or above it will affect the contests for sure.I can't see how some who will be unemployed,and there will be alot ,could afford to do contests,they will have to save and pinch every penny.I also think that sponsor money may dry up fast,leaving alot of contests to cancel or cut way,way,back on prize money.I also don't think that gas prices will stay this low for long,OPEC will cut production soon and they will rise quite a bit probably after the first of the year. I personally think the economy will affect everyone and things will be alot worse this time next year.

There's always the KCBS bailout plan from Congress.

Sidw
11-21-2008, 11:11 AM
I do know that I am going to be extremely choosy about which contests we do. There will be 65+ events within a couple of hours of KC so there is no reason to tolerate cramped quarters, poor amenities, or poor organization. I hope organizers take that to heart and get the prize monies up to where they should be.

I think many teams will probably cut back some in 2009.

Having more comps to chose from, especially ones that are closer will help. At first it may dilute the attendance at some contest, but having more organizers competing to get cooks at their events is good for everyone. The organizers doing the right things (as the good ones are already doing) will attract the most cooks and become even better events.

We are not planning to cut back on events in 09 at this time, but sure will be looking at ways to do things more cost effective.

Sledneck
11-21-2008, 11:15 AM
I am hoping to go 50/50 with another team for some of the events next year that would make it easier.

Big George's BBQ
11-21-2008, 11:24 AM
I may be doing 1 or 2 more but they will be considered local

Scottie
11-21-2008, 11:27 AM
Pickled Pig, you're awesome for keeping those kind of statistics and I really enjoy your site !!:grin: good work !!

I've started going thru my potential contest list, and since there seems to be a couple more contests close to my house, it seems my travel at least will be less next year.


I know a good one on Memorial Day weekend that would love to have you back... We even have reps from the South... :wink:

Now that my season is done, I can say that I will cut back next year. I know it won't happen, but it sounds good. I am also planning on teaming up with another team next year and hit a couple of farther away contests. Might even team up and do some more local one's. A lot will depend on my chances for Lynchburg and if I am able to keep up my streak. An auto would be real nice... :-?

Sledneck
11-21-2008, 11:32 AM
I know a good one on Memorial Day weekend that would love to have you back... We even have reps from the South... :wink:

Now that my season is done, I can say that I will cut back next year. I know it won't happen, but it sounds good. I am also planning on teaming up with another team next year and hit a couple of farther away contests. Might even team up and do some more local one's. A lot will depend on my chances for Lynchburg and if I am able to keep up my streak. An auto would be real nice... :-?You are always welcome to come team up with me here if you want to hit any the local ones around New Yawk:biggrin: You would have to chicken:icon_blush:though

Scottie
11-21-2008, 11:39 AM
Man, I am just hoping to be able to make it back to Lake Placid this summer.

ique
11-21-2008, 12:08 PM
A lot will depend on my chances for Lynchburg and if I am able to keep up my streak. An auto would be real nice... :-?

How many of the 7 do you have so far Scottie?

Scottie
11-21-2008, 12:11 PM
4....

Roo-B-Q'N
11-21-2008, 12:39 PM
I believe alot of the smaller contests are going to dry up, if not next season, the following one due to the 09 season. Sponsorships for contests will also be less. We run a contest and one of our sponsors in 07 gave us 188 racks of St. Louis cut spares for our People's Choice contest, this year they said they couldn't do it due to the worsening economy, and this was back in May or June.
Purses are going to shrink for that reason as well, our Major sponsor from last year also threw in the towel this year leaving us to scramble, while we did find one, I don't think they will be willing to foot the bill next year and we will be asking for more prize money this year. We went from 30 teams our first year to 46 teams this year and to grow beyond that, more money will be needed. We have a meeting this afternoon that will tell us what direction this contest will go or if we will even be involved with it.
As to contests, we cut back this year due to gas prices and did mostly local contests. I know next year we will not be doing two of those. So as of right now we have scaled back. If gas prices stay, we might go further but who knows.
As to the BOD finding relief for organizers, they are not interested in it. They are in for the money just like competitors. As long as a contest can prove they have the money to cover prizes, they make their payments to KCBS and the contest is run according to their rules they are happy and have fulfilled their obligations.
It will be an interesting season that is for sure, I think we will see a decline in contests and comingeling of teams.

ique
11-21-2008, 12:40 PM
I'm not cutting back the number of contests... usually cook 8-10... but may try to cook more local. The Royal is really the big financial hit. I don't want to add it all up, but it must be 3-4k.

Jorge
11-21-2008, 12:44 PM
I'm not cutting back the number of contests... usually cook 8-10... but may try to cook more local. The Royal is really the big financial hit. I don't want to add it all up, but it must be 3-4k.

But you rent the Taj Mahal:wink:

And it's worth every penny. Looking at the cost of the room I kept at the Royal hurt. It was worth every penny when needed but 5 nights added up in a hurry, even with the KCBS discount and it wasn't on site.

ique
11-21-2008, 12:49 PM
But you rent the Taj Mahal:wink:
And it's worth every penny. Looking at the cost of the room I kept at the Royal hurt. It was worth every penny when needed but 5 nights added up in a hurry, even with the KCBS discount and it wasn't on site.

Yeah - we have 5 or 6 guys and its about the same price to rent an RV than to book a couple hotel rooms for the weekend.

Alexa RnQ
11-21-2008, 12:50 PM
We still have a lot to learn, and we don't learn it by staying home. I've already been filling out our calendar for next year. A couple of contests may go away, and if anything we want to add a couple more. If they build it, we will come.

Ron_L
11-21-2008, 01:03 PM
We're planning on doing more next year. We missed two or three competitions that are fairly close to home because of other commitments so we plan on adding them next year.

Scottie
11-21-2008, 01:08 PM
which one's did you guys miss Ron?

Podge
11-21-2008, 01:56 PM
We still have a lot to learn, and we don't learn it by staying home. I've already been filling out our calendar for next year. A couple of contests may go away, and if anything we want to add a couple more. If they build it, we will come.

you can learn a lot practicing at home !!!..

SmokeInDaEye
11-21-2008, 02:00 PM
Pickled Pig, you're awesome for keeping those kind of statistics and I really enjoy your site !!:grin: good work !!

I've started going thru my potential contest list, and since there seems to be a couple more contests close to my house, it seems my travel at least will be less next year.

That was my strategy this year and it worked well. Aside from a 4-5 hour drive to New Holland, PA, I stayed within about an hour radius. The Royal invite and a possible draw in the Jack, I may have to give up 1 or 2 favorites next year for economic reasons.

CivilWarBBQ
11-21-2008, 02:05 PM
The Pro team count at the GBC was off substantially in 2008, but that was in part due to KCBS stupidly sanctioning another contest on the same weekend that cost us several teams. Interestingly the Backyard Division is growing rapidly to the point where it's entirely possible we will have more amateur cooks than pro teams in 2009. Yes, sponsors are feeling the pinch. Since we fund all our prize money with entry fees, payouts will only be reduced if signups fall, but we will likely have to cut back on the freebies we have supplied to the teams in the past.

Just for a couple of examples, the cost to provide our Hospitality Tent was over $8,000, and giving out free ice over $1,500. I doubt that our sponsors will be able to sustain that level of giving with the economy beating them up.

As for my cook team, we hope to at least do the same number of shows as last year if not add a couple. However, unexpected drops in finances could change all that, and we're already seeing that staff cutbacks at one team member's job means it will be difficult for him to get Fridays off for all our contest dates.

Scottie
11-21-2008, 02:06 PM
you can learn a lot practicing at home !!!..


Man, you got that right. I cooked chicken Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday for about 3 weeks this summer. Right in the middle of the season too. Just because I was working on my chicken that was dragging me down...

Probably one of the reaasons why I am not smoking my turkey this year. Cooking it the old school way. In my oven...

Alexa RnQ
11-21-2008, 02:18 PM
Man, you got that right. I cooked chicken Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday for about 3 weeks this summer.
We did about the same before the Jack. And do you know what I learned?
That I #$%@&!! HATE CHICKEN!!!

Podge
11-21-2008, 02:33 PM
We did about the same before the Jack. And do you know what I learned?
That I #$%@&!! HATE CHICKEN!!!

In 2007 I cooked Tons and Tons of white chicken from sept. to the time of the jack, once i found out i got drawn.. cooked it about 3-4 times a week. I feel your pain. :icon_smil.. I used the same technique this year as i did last year, practiced it just twice to make sure i had it, and went with the same thing again. Worked out well....

Also, i litterally went thru over 80 pounds of chicken thighs trying to find a decent thigh replacement for the Jack.

rbinms33
11-21-2008, 02:41 PM
I know we'll do both of the Smoke on the Water comps in AR, one in March '09 and the other in Sept '09. Be good to see my MOFO's, KSFO's and LAFO's again :biggrin:. Other than that, we're still looking at a few here close to home. Ashland, MS in May, Memphis, TN in June, Holly Springs, MS in Oct and Corinth, MS in Oct.

Ron_L
11-21-2008, 03:24 PM
which one's did you guys miss Ron?

Princeton, Sparta, Grand Rapids and Milwaukee. There are more if we want to range out further, but this year we stayed within about 200 miles of home.

Scottie
11-21-2008, 03:28 PM
Princeton, Sparta, Grand Rapids and Milwaukee. There are more if we want to range out further, but this year we stayed within about 200 miles of home.


I'll be at all the Wisconsin one's... And Grand Rapids... All good contests. GR will have no electricity though, so you will need a generator or a battery for the FE.

What I used to do was draw a circle from my house that was 4 hours of driving away. If it fell in that area, I went. Now I consider those home contests, after some of the drives I did last year.

Bentley
11-21-2008, 03:39 PM
I believe people will still put money aside for things they enjoy.


I think you are right about this! It is expanding the teams, kind of hard to get a new team to compete when they realize just what it cost!

Chipper
11-21-2008, 03:51 PM
I am new to the whole deal and the economy will have no effect on my plans to enter contests. Hopefully, at least 4.

SaucyWench
11-21-2008, 04:41 PM
From a judge's perspective, we've always tried to keep to contests no more than 4 hours away, though we went up & judged Grand Rapids this year, because my sister lives about 50 miles south. We don't have anywhere near the expenses as you competitors, but hotels aren't cheap these days, and some in smaller towns will jack the prices way up on contest weekends, or put 2 or even 3 night minimums on rooms. I'd say competitions will be the only vacations for us next year (not that that's a bad thing!)

NotleyQue
11-21-2008, 05:19 PM
I dont think I will cut down on contests on 2009.
Even with gas prices at 4.50 a gallon in San Diego last year, I was still able to pull off 8. (9 total this year December contest).

Thom Emery does a great job out here in Cali with his IBCA contests, they are pretty low cost, and just as fun too. He also started a Taste of Q at our contests where we give the public 2oz of BBQ for a ticket, we turn in ticket at the end, the Charity being supported gets $1.00 and we get $1.00. That actually paid for 3 entry fees for us last year.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
11-21-2008, 05:47 PM
2008 I cooked 8 comps, 2009 probably 4 or 5 or.... just have to make sure I still have a job!

Smokin' Joe
11-21-2008, 06:09 PM
We will be cooking more as well...we got started late in 2008 with 3 at the end of the year...looks like we will be doing 11 in 2009.

CTSmokehouse
11-21-2008, 06:40 PM
With Westport, CT and Norwalk, CT within 20 miles and the BBQ Brethren in Sayville,NY 1.5 hours away... and Harvard, MA (even with the mud) about 2.25 hours away...it will make me very happy. If things go right, I would like to return to Lake Placid, NY (4.5 hr) and Merrimack, NH (3.5 hr). Of course I'd like to go back to the AR next year...and Harpoon!!

For the time being...learning the "Twins" this winter is my goal. I might even "Freeze My Butt Off" in February in Maynard, MA....

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

KC_Bobby
11-21-2008, 07:00 PM
2008 I cooked 8 comps, 2009 probably 4 or 5 or.... just have to make sure I still have a job!

We had what I hope was final cuts yesterday. I still have a uni and locker so I'm off to go look at a trailer tomorrow.

We will be cooking more as well...we got started late in 2008 with 3 at the end of the year...looks like we will be doing 11 in 2009.

You doin the entire IA curcuit next year? Which one's did you do this year? We did State Center, LaPorte and Waucoma. In 09 we're thinking Porkalossal, Waterloo, LaPorte, Waucoma and one more in IA and 3 in MO.

CTSmokehouse
11-21-2008, 07:13 PM
With Westport, CT and Norwalk, CT within 20 miles and the BBQ Brethren in Sayville,NY 1.5 hours away... and Harvard, MA (even with the mud) about 2.25 hours away...it will make me very happy. If things go right, I would like to return to Lake Placid, NY (4.5 hr) and Merrimack, NH (3.5 hr). Of course I'd like to go back to the AR next year...and Harpoon!!

For the time being...learning the "Twins" this winter is my goal. I might even "Freeze My Butt Off" in February in Maynard, MA....

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

Oops...

Forgot where we started...

Hudson Valley Rib Festival, New Paltz, NY (1.5 hr)....

Smokin' Joe
11-21-2008, 07:16 PM
You doin the entire IA curcuit next year? Which one's did you do this year? We did State Center, LaPorte and Waucoma. In 09 we're thinking Porkalossal, Waterloo, LaPorte, Waucoma and one more in IA and 3 in MO.

Good luck on the trailer hunt, I just got my new toyhauler home this week...the crew is coming over tomorrow to start "finishing" it.

We live right on the IA/MN border so our tentative schedule looks like Austin Mn, Owatonna Mn, Marshalltown, Mason City, Waterloo, Waucoma, Albert Lea Mn, Independance, Sparta WI, then two of either State Center, Huron Sd, Shannon Il, or Libertyville Il.

I would like to do the Qlossal, but I don't have a whole hog cooker?? This year we did Sparta WI, Libertyville Il, and a non KCBS event up here.

lunchlady
11-21-2008, 07:26 PM
We probably won't be cutting back on comps... just planning better and hopefully catering more. I figure if we start now, we can budget/save up the cash for the AR trip. I'm looking at FYBO-MA, PITP-MD, Peter's Pond-MA, possibly Merrimac-NH, Lake Placid-NY, Hudson Valley-NY, Harpoon-VT, Maine, Harvard-MA, hopefully a MABA or two, probably back to the Oink-NY, American Royal-MO.

If we can do all of those that would qualify us for KCBS ToY (under the new rules)...

Oh... don't forget the Road Trip to MIM... that's on the list too.

Nature Boy
11-21-2008, 07:29 PM
Hey Podge
We probably won't reduce the number of contests (though we never do more than a dozen a year), but if the economy stays the same or gets worse, it is pretty much guaranteed we'll stay close to home again.

If it gets worse, and we get lucky enough to get invited again for our 6th year, we might even have to reconsider driving out to the Royal. But it would have to get real bad ;-)

Chris

txschutte
11-21-2008, 08:11 PM
Actually, we are ramping up from local comps to those that are a bit further out. It's the only way we can get beyond the VFD Cookoff and advance with our skills.

JD McGee
11-21-2008, 08:25 PM
I actually plan to do a few more comps this year than I did last year. My wife was out of work for 8 months the beginning of this year so we had to scale back on expenses...but now she is gainfully employed again! :biggrin:

Coz
11-21-2008, 09:56 PM
This was our first season competing and we did 4 contests.We are hoping to do a few more this coming year.With the only early season contest in Wi moving its date back so that all of the Wi contests fall in August and september we are looking at Illinios and iowa ,minnesota and Michigan for an early one or two.I plan on taking a judging class and am going to try to get to judge a few of the Wi contest that we wont be able to compete in.Also folks keep an eye out for changes in Princeton.

backporchbbq
11-22-2008, 04:04 AM
I am hoping to go 50/50 with another team for some of the events next year that would make it easier.

Sled I am sure my team will be glad to have you if you ever want to team up and cut costs a little bit. Let us know.

backporchbbq
11-22-2008, 04:07 AM
We will be doing a few more most likely. Love the comps, luckly they are within two hours of our house.

Dale P
11-22-2008, 07:23 AM
Its 18 degrees outside, and I am actually thinking about firing up the smoker and go practice for the 09 season. I cant say with any accuracy how many comps we are cooking in 09, but I will not miss Madison, Owensboro, Kettering, and a new one that is about 30 minutes from my house.

Even if I have to sell the secret to 15 place brisket, I will be there.

Podge, if the economy gets worse we could combine forces at a comp or 2..

Rolling Smoke
11-22-2008, 08:24 AM
What will happen to the Competition BBQ World next year. What, if anything, is KCBS BOD's planning to minimize the effect of the economy on the organization ?

I don't see what the BOD can do to minimize the impact of the economy. They are a business and they need a certain amount of revenue to survive so I'm guessing they are not going to drop their sanctioning fee.


For a lot of contests last year, seems the attendance was down, and things were seemingly good for the most part with the exception of gas prices.

You and I have talked about this in length and as you know, the main reason that I think the attendance is down at some comps is because the organizers have gotten lethargic and do not put forth the effort to attract the teams. With more events to choose from it is no longer a thing of build it and they will come.


If you are a contest organizer, how will this affect your contest ? Will you still plan on having one ?

You know Kettering is still going to happen! Next year it will be bigger and better than ever and we will have to cap it at 50 teams. We are also working to make sure that everybody gets a chance to leave with a dog tag. :wink:


If you are a competitor, or a judge, will you change your schedule and eliminate some contests ?

As a competitor, I plan to do as many next year as I did this year. The one thing that could throw a wrench in that plan is my employment status but we'll see what happens.

Great question and thanks for asking it.

HoDeDo
11-22-2008, 08:29 AM
I do know that I am going to be extremely choosy about which contests we do. There will be 65+ events within a couple of hours of KC so there is no reason to tolerate cramped quarters, poor amenities, or poor organization. I hope organizers take that to heart and get the prize monies up to where they should be.

I think prize monies will shrink... You have already seen philanthropic spending down with bigger corporate sponsors. I think you will see these local marketing dollars down as well. I don't see prize money going up this year.

Man, I am just hoping to be able to make it back to Lake Placid this summer.

We are making that trip this year. :razz:

U2CANQUE
11-22-2008, 09:00 AM
Actually not really planning on changing much....being in Cleveland is an oddity....pretty much a minimum of three hours to ANY contest....but, given the experience that I had in NC this year I would forgo the little extras just to make sure that I can make it to at least Shelby again. It is going to take some creative funding, yes, but, the experience is one....for the most part....that is priceless.....the people that we have met at comps, sharing this damn hobby, and the places we get to see....hard to replace that.....and besides, thirty years from now, what are we going to have besides the memories?
Now, that all being said, I do agree with Jim, I will not enter a contest just based on field of dreams...build it and they will come......because I dont want to pay for a bad experience.......unorganized......chaotic......
Prime Choices:
-Kettering, OH, Madison, IN, Boston, NY, Fairbanks, IN, Clarence, NY, Shelby, NC....and most likely Nelsonville, OH........and maybe fill in a couple along the way besides those......suggestions?

ThomEmery
11-22-2008, 09:17 AM
Adding Peoples Choice or Taste of Championship BBQ is a lot of work for the teams I know. But we have to find a way to get cash back into every teams pockets not just the top ten winners At Stagecoach many of the teams will make over $1000 working the PC sales. The crowd loves getting the "real" BBQ We will refine this more in 2009
Some new ideas will be used to make this easier for the teams

The Pigman
11-22-2008, 09:34 AM
Hopefully not in Ohio to give the rest of us a chance.......LOL


Pickled Pig, you're awesome for keeping those kind of statistics and I really enjoy your site !!:grin: good work !!

I've started going thru my potential contest list, and since there seems to be a couple more contests close to my house, it seems my travel at least will be less next year.

Rolling Smoke
11-22-2008, 10:19 AM
Podge told me he was going to take Ohio this year like Grant took Richmond.

LindaM
11-22-2008, 10:25 AM
What about New Paltz, Troy, and a few new ones in The Poconos. Maybe even a New Long Island contest.

With Westport, CT and Norwalk, CT within 20 miles and the BBQ Brethren in Sayville,NY 1.5 hours away... and Harvard, MA (even with the mud) about 2.25 hours away...it will make me very happy. If things go right, I would like to return to Lake Placid, NY (4.5 hr) and Merrimack, NH (3.5 hr). Of course I'd like to go back to the AR next year...and Harpoon!!

For the time being...learning the "Twins" this winter is my goal. I might even "Freeze My Butt Off" in February in Maynard, MA....

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

LindaM
11-22-2008, 10:37 AM
Rochester and Troy NY
Actually not really planning on changing much....being in Cleveland is an oddity....pretty much a minimum of three hours to ANY contest....but, given the experience that I had in NC this year I would forgo the little extras just to make sure that I can make it to at least Shelby again. It is going to take some creative funding, yes, but, the experience is one....for the most part....that is priceless.....the people that we have met at comps, sharing this damn hobby, and the places we get to see....hard to replace that.....and besides, thirty years from now, what are we going to have besides the memories?
Now, that all being said, I do agree with Jim, I will not enter a contest just based on field of dreams...build it and they will come......because I dont want to pay for a bad experience.......unorganized......chaotic......
Prime Choices:
-Kettering, OH, Madison, IN, Boston, NY, Fairbanks, IN, Clarence, NY, Shelby, NC....and most likely Nelsonville, OH........and maybe fill in a couple along the way besides those......suggestions?

LindaM
11-22-2008, 10:41 AM
Adding Peoples Choice or Taste of Championship BBQ is a lot of work for the teams I know. But we have to find a way to get cash back into every teams pockets not just the top ten winners At Stagecoach many of the teams will make over $1000 working the PC sales. The crowd loves getting the "real" BBQ We will refine this more in 2009
Some new ideas will be used to make this easier for the teams

Tom You are great organizer. I think trying to give teams the chance to make money is great. How does that effect your vendors, and how do you make up for vendor fees if you don't have the BBQ vendors. Just wondering.

ThomEmery
11-22-2008, 11:03 AM
Thom You are great organizer. I think trying to give teams the chance to make money is great. How does that effect your vendors, and how do you make up for vendor fees if you don't have the BBQ vendors. Just wondering.

LOL I dont know about great LOL
At Stagecoach the Music is the Star
The Vendors start slower during the PC
Then the evening break in the music comes
PC is over 64,000 people have been smelling Que all day
Yea you got it standing in lines 100 deep
at all the BBQ vendors They do VERY well

At smaller contests we dont have vendors
the teams and the charity take that money
rather than give it away for a small percentage

The PC money is split with the teams
either by thirds if the event buys the meat
or by half if the team buy it

Vince RnQ
11-22-2008, 11:17 AM
you can learn a lot practicing at home !!!..

We have always been a team that practices a lot at home and we'll continue to do so but there's just no substitute for what you learn from live competition. I honestly think you have to have both.


We did about the same before the Jack. And do you know what I learned?
That I #$%@&!! HATE CHICKEN!!!

Yeah, you hated it all the way to the stage while collecting that 2nd Place trophy too!


Adding Peoples Choice or Taste of Championship BBQ is a lot of work for the teams I know. But we have to find a way to get cash back into every teams pockets not just the top ten winners At Stagecoach many of the teams will make over $1000 working the PC sales. The crowd loves getting the "real" BBQ We will refine this more in 2009
Some new ideas will be used to make this easier for the teams

If putting money back into the hands of teams is the goal then why is there a 50/50 split with the Organizer/Promoter on almost all of the PC/ToQ events instead of the 80/20 split we found at places like Rio Rancho and Durango? At 50/50 it is hardly worth the time, effort and energy required to vend the food. If there is a charity involved then I would much prefer to simply donate my food and have someone else do the selling so that ALL the money could go to the cause instead it being split between the event and the team. This may be a topic for a different thread and should one pop up I would be happy to elaborate on the experiences we had in 2008 with PC/ToQ events.

ThomEmery
11-22-2008, 01:33 PM
LOL The Guys who put up the $30,000 prize money in 2008 and paid all the bills for the event that entry fees dont cover got the other half of it
We are probably going back to The SC one system I will know this week

Vince RnQ
11-22-2008, 06:05 PM
Thom, I'm not responsible for making sure the promoter breaks even or makes a profit. You can LOL all you like but PC is more of an easy money grab for promoters and organizers than it is beneficial for a team at a 50/50 split. And that, to me, is no laughing matter.

NotleyQue
11-22-2008, 07:00 PM
So what would you like then Vince?

Goldenvoice, who promotes Stagecoach is a concert promoter, not a BBQ contest promoter. They are in the biz to make a profit. We are part of that profit making, so in turn we pay a price for that. Just like the Lemonade vendor that pays a price to the promoter, just like the beer gardens who pay a price to the promoter, just like the pony rides that pay a price to the vendor.

Goldenvoice can tell Thom they are not interested in having BBQ teams at their concert site, because Goldenvoice can make more money renting out the space the give us to a Merry go Round or a Deep Fried Whatever booth. There is a reason the promoter put up such big prize money for Best Booth. The BBQers are nothing more than a sideshow attraction.

I would like to hear how you would make it better, or how you would go about putting on a major BBQ event at one of the largest music festivals in the country.








Thom, I'm not responsible for making sure the promoter breaks even or makes a profit. You can LOL all you like but PC is more of an easy money grab for promoters and organizers than it is beneficial for a team at a 50/50 split. And that, to me, is no laughing matter.

ThomEmery
11-22-2008, 08:49 PM
Thom, I'm not responsible for making sure the promoter breaks even or makes a profit. You can LOL all you like but PC is more of an easy money grab for promoters and organizers than it is beneficial for a team at a 50/50 split. And that, to me, is no laughing matter.

Easy Money, Vince No it would not be easy money
The overhead in our contest area is a heck of a lot more than the money generated by PC

Vince RnQ
11-22-2008, 11:45 PM
Easy Money, Vince No it would not be easy money
The overhead in our contest area is a heck of a lot more than the money generated by PC

I'm not uneducated regarding the economics involved in putting on an event the size of Stagecoach anymore than I am uneducated regarding the economics of running a competition barbeque team.

As I said earlier, I'm not responsible for the overhead involved in running the event. I'm responsible for the overhead in running my team. Plain and simple, it is not profitable to participate in a PC/ToQ event at a 50/50 split. That barely covers the cost of the raw meat and doesn't begin to address the labor involved in cooking it and serving it.

Considering that all the promoter has to do is sell the tickets to the general public and then count and distribute the money back to the teams, I'd say that was pretty easy for 50% of the kitty.

I seriously doubt that Stagecoach is a money losing venture for the people offering financial backing. The event draws over 50,000 people and with ticket prices ranging from $99 to $799 per person for the two day event, I think the money made from any PC/ToQ has very little to do with overhead and a lot more to do with taking what can be taken because they're in a position to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of capitalism and have no problem with people making a profit on their businesses. What I do have a problem with is when someone tells me what a great favor they're doing for me and at that same time has their hand in my pocket as deeply as they can get it. Call it what it really is and don't insult my intelligence.

NotleyQue
11-23-2008, 12:32 AM
Next year Vince, dont sell any People Choice then.

I will supply you a banner that tells people to come over to Notley Que for great Award winning BBQ. Ill gladly take their ticket and split it 50/50 with the promoter. Hell Ill even pay you 50 bucks for banner space on your tent.

Im happy with the extra tickets, your happy with out the stress of the demanding peoples choice. Its win win.

No joke, let me advertise on your tent, and that 50 bucks will at least pay for your chicken, and your charcoal. Ill even throw in a bottle of hot sauce.

Vince RnQ
11-23-2008, 12:33 AM
So what would you like then Vince?

Goldenvoice, who promotes Stagecoach is a concert promoter, not a BBQ contest promoter. They are in the biz to make a profit. We are part of that profit making, so in turn we pay a price for that. Just like the Lemonade vendor that pays a price to the promoter, just like the beer gardens who pay a price to the promoter, just like the pony rides that pay a price to the vendor.

Goldenvoice can tell Thom they are not interested in having BBQ teams at their concert site, because Goldenvoice can make more money renting out the space the give us to a Merry go Round or a Deep Fried Whatever booth. There is a reason the promoter put up such big prize money for Best Booth. The BBQers are nothing more than a sideshow attraction.

I would like to hear how you would make it better, or how you would go about putting on a major BBQ event at one of the largest music festivals in the country.

Gary, I understand what Stagecoach is all about and how the barbeque event fits into the grand scheme of things. I know they're in business to make a profit but then again, so am I. If you recall, I was one of the leading voices last year in telling people that this contest is like no other event they would likely participate in because the concerts are the main course and the barbeque contest is just one of the many side dishes. In other words, they don't need us there, they want us there. I have no bones about how all that works.

What I'm talking about is the larger concept of PC/ToQ as an on-going thing from contest to contest. I know you did a number of events this year but I think most, if not all, were in California. I don't recall if you did the Boulder City event so forgive my bad memory if you were there this year. PC/ToQ is handled quite differently outside of the Golden State. It is seen more as a true vending operation instead of a contest. In your comments above, you talk about the lemonade vendor and the beer garden having to pay a price to the promoter but I can assure you that the price they're paying is a fixed price and not anything close to 50% of their gross sales. Why then should we be asked to pony up that kind of money? Probably because not many teams have ever stopped to think about it in terms of operating like a business because the truth is many of us are simply competing at events out of a love of the game and not to try and make money doing it.

You and I have talked in the past about how much fun it is to serve the food we've worked so hard to cook to people and the joy we get out of the happiness it brings as they eat it. We put a lot of our heart and soul into our competition cooking and the looks on those faces is almost as rewarding as the accolades we get from our fellow competitors when we're fortunate enough to take a walk up to the stage during the awards ceremony. I know you know what both feel like having taken those back-to-back 1st Place Brisket walks at Fairfield and Clovis this year.

Why should we have to pay a 50% toke to the promoter when they're taking a much smaller percentage of the actual vendor's revenue? As Thom pointed out in post above, the revenue from PC/ToQ is a drop in the virtual bucket and doesn't make even a tiny dent in the cost of running an event as large as Stagecoach. My team cooked and served a lot of food at the event this year. We were one of the last teams to run out of food on both days so I'm not talking out of school when I tell you that we barely broke even on our food costs and worked our butts off to keep up with the line we had in front of our booth. Do you know of many businesses that work all day just to break even? I don't.

Speaking specifically of Stagecoach, since that is something you asked about in your post, I think that if the folks putting on the event want us to "put on a show" then they should give us the opportunity to really make a couple of bucks profit as we serve and entertain the concertgoers with our food and banter. I'd be much more willing to put in the work necessary to put on that show if I knew I could really offset some of my expenses instead of just treading water while giving them what they want.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that I'm criticizing the people behind Stagecoach for how PC/ToQ works. They're concert promoters not barbeque event promoters. They want their concertgoers entertained and fed and as long as that happens, I'm sure they'll be happy to keep us coming back time and again. I don't presume to tell them how to run their concert but I also don't presume to let them tell me that I have to work for nothing just for the opportunity to participate in the competition. Remember, my team's primary goal is to win the competition and if PC/ToQ gets in the way of that goal, it isn't hard to guess which activity is going to get my attention and which one isn't.

NotleyQue
11-23-2008, 12:52 AM
Soooooo do we have a deal then....

50 bucks and a bottle of hot sauce, and you dont have to do the P.C. No extra work for you.

I understand where you are coming from, but 50% is better than nothing.

I more than recouped my meat, gas, charcoal, and most misc expensise on P.C last year. Maybe thats why Im more pro for it than you. I dont know why I did so well, we had no booth decorations, no banner (forgot it at home), but we had lines. One of the 1st teams to sell out first all 3 days. No real extra cooking either.

Vince RnQ
11-23-2008, 01:17 AM
Ha! What the hell am I going to do with a bottle of hot sauce?!?

As for 50% being better than nothing, I guess we'll just have to disagree on that point.

Podge
11-23-2008, 02:35 PM
Its 18 degrees outside, and I am actually thinking about firing up the smoker and go practice for the 09 season. I cant say with any accuracy how many comps we are cooking in 09, but I will not miss Madison, Owensboro, Kettering, and a new one that is about 30 minutes from my house.

Even if I have to sell the secret to 15 place brisket, I will be there.

Podge, if the economy gets worse we could combine forces at a comp or 2..

That may not be a bad idea !.. BTW, are you talking about springfield, Ky. as being the close one for us ?.. that will be awesome !!.. I'd have to take nothing but back roads to get there.

Dale P
11-23-2008, 02:47 PM
Springfield? Havent heard of that one but I like it. I was thinking about the one over in Jeff. Im getting itchy for some comp time.

Scottie
11-23-2008, 02:59 PM
Also folks keep an eye out for changes in Princeton.



What's going on in Princeton?

Thanks

Podge
11-23-2008, 03:27 PM
Springfield? Havent heard of that one but I like it. I was thinking about the one over in Jeff. Im getting itchy for some comp time.

it's the first weekend in october, and it's on KCBS's website.

ThomEmery
11-23-2008, 03:52 PM
Vince PC is changing this year see the PC thread