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Mutha Chicken BBQ
11-11-2008, 07:10 PM
I know there is already a discussion going on in the "For the Board" section, But I thought that it merited a posting in general area as well.

well for those of you who have not been informed or have, It seems as though KCBS is at it again. They are going to discuss the nepotism policy again. We had a board member table this last year after a great amount of flack from the community.

The policy they want to introduce, Nepotism, Would in fact not allow Merl Whitebrook to run for office again as his wife Carolyn is already a member. She was voted in last time. I feel it is unjust as KCBS was founded by a family, Has been a family, and for all intents and purposes proports itself as a family sport and eviroment.

Now it is being requested from a member in good standing that the board take the issue up again. I wrote to the board and expressed my laments that they would consider it. As a member in good standing why is it that anothers wishes means more to the board then the others????

Aparently there is a petition going around, Although I have yet to see it.
just seems very underhanded to me. It apears for all intents and purposes to be a head hunting expedition.

I urge any members for or against to express your thoughts to the board.

http://kcbs.us/about_board.php (http://kcbs.us/about_board.php)

And Merl, you have been the only board member to continually update the membership through you postings on every message board out there. And for that I thank you! And hope this is defeated. Again!!!

JohnMcD348
11-11-2008, 07:22 PM
Thank you for that information. I don't really follow the inner workings and politics that go on within organizations much so I appreciate it when something of importance is brought to light so even us "blind folk" can see it.

Rookie'48
11-11-2008, 08:14 PM
I just sent this to the BOD:

I hear that this subject is again before the board. I feel that we (the KCBS membership) already have a nepotism policy. It is called "The Ballot Box". Each & every candidate for any elective office, be it private, corporate or public, should be evaluated and voted for / against on their OWN merits. If some one feels that there should be no family members serving together, then that person can and proably should vote against any and all candidates that fall under the heading of family members.

Thank you,
Dave Compton
KCBS CBJ # 22569

ps - I agree that Merle has been an asset to the BOD & he does keep us a lot more informed than we would be without him.

watertowerbbq
11-11-2008, 08:19 PM
e-mail sent to BoD

Pig Headed
11-11-2008, 08:22 PM
Email sent and received replies from Carol Whitebook,Rod Grey,Merl Whitebook,Linda Mullane,Troy Black. Pretty fast responces, though not a consensus on the topic.

Bossmanbbq
11-11-2008, 08:44 PM
I agree, here is a copy of the letter I sent...

Dear KCBS Officers and Board of Directors..

It has been rumored among members of KCBS and those of us that are actively involved with BBQ Blogs,and forums that individuals within KCBS have again come forward attempting to impose a nepotism policy in an attempt to keep one officer of KCBS from running again.(Merl Whitebook specifically).
This is a sport and hobby that my family and I have enjoyed and love very much, and one that has brought us closer together. It pains me to learn that individuals with personal agendas are approaching you, wanting you to pass polices and procedures to help them hurt individual(s) they disagree with or dislike. It pains me that they are using all of you as their tool in accomplishing their personal agenda's.
I would hope that we(KCBS) have other issues more pressing and of more concern then to carry out personal attacks and agendas on individuals on this board, a board that has been placed by us, the members of this organization.It has also been rumored that a petition is being ciruclated regarding this, but at the time of this email I have not seen it.
On a personal point of privilege I would like to say that I have met Merl Whitebook on several occasions here in Colorado at KCBS sanctioned contests and consider him a friend. I can tell you from my perspective of being a Police Officer for over 15 years, I'm a pretty good judge of character of individuals, kind of vital for the job. With that being said I have found Merl to be an individual that is sincere and cares a great deal for this sport, the people involved in it and also listening to all of us that have spoke to him asking for his guidance, suggestions and opinions. He has ALWAYS taking time and represented KCBS with style and class, as would be expected.
But what has impressed me most with Merl is that he is an active voice. You can always find Merl on a number of BBQ forums answering questions, giving advice and keeping us all up to date.Not to cast stones at anyone, but Merl is one of the few that I have seen that does this. I think this alone speaks volumes about him and his dedication to KCBS and its members.He knows the members, our concerns and what we feel will help this organization continue to be the best this sport has to offer.
I am asking that as Officers and Board members of KCBS that any and all plans to impose a nepotism policy be REJECTED Should such a policy be passed I'm sure that many members of KCBS as well as myself will petition both Officers and Board of Directors regarding this.
I hope that this issue is resolved and that you, as a board collectively will address more important and pressing issues, concerns and improvement ideas that come to you to better this sport and hobby that we all truly love. I look forward to hearing from each of you regarding this email and respect each of your positions that you have been elected to. Please do the right thing for our organization and what you know to be right within your heart. Thank you for your time and reading this.
--
Chuck Marting (Bossman)
Bossman Bar-B-Que
bossmanbbq@gmail.com
www.bossmanbbq.com (http://www.bossmanbbq.com)

ThomEmery
11-11-2008, 09:14 PM
Well Said Brother

barbefunkoramaque
11-11-2008, 09:18 PM
sigh

willkat98
11-11-2008, 09:30 PM
If I can be serious for a moment...

When this issue came up last year, and the ensuing debate that went on within the Board and on the Net...

It was my last straw.

Parrothead and I took a KCBS judging class in Chicago as soon as we found one. I think it was Feb. of 2004 or so.

I looked forward to competing one day, and would judge in the mean time.

A hurricane in Key Largo in 2005 kept Greg, Me, and Phil from hooking up on a get-a-way vacation slash judging comp.

(PS, I am guessing on the years above)

Fast forward to last year, and I fully admit, I was not able to judge as of yet.

But then the nepotism crap started.

My membership came up Feb of 2007 and I tossed the renewal in the trash.

I know politics.

I grew up and live in Chicago.

I though BBQ was for fun. What I saw last year, with the way the Board tried to squash change, sickened me.

I am done with KCBS.

They got a no vote of confidence from me, and I didnt renew.

So I'm not a member, or a judge anymore.

Boo.

Hoo.

I am still disgusted by the actions of the "good ole boys" network in KCBS.

My solution:

Total replacement

2 from Midwest, 2 from NorthEast, 2 From South, 2 from West, 1 from Cali, 1 from Florida, one from Texas (since they think KCBS is bunkus)

Talk about a well balanced board

Sorry folks, but the BS in KCBS doesnt meant Bull Sheet, it means Bull Chit

You lost me, and will lose more with this kinda crap

motoeric
11-11-2008, 10:08 PM
\
But what has impressed me most with Merl is that he is an active voice. You can always find Merl on a number of BBQ forums answering questions, giving advice and keeping us all up to date.Not to cast stones at anyone, but Merl is one of the few that I have seen that does this. I think this alone speaks volumes about him and his dedication to KCBS and its members.He knows the members, our concerns and what we feel will help this organization continue to be the best this sport has to offer.
\

Unfortunately, this is not considered a positive with a BoD that prefers to work without oversight and almost in anonymity. I have a suspicion that Merl's willingness to keep the membership in the loop adds to the consternation of the people behind the nepotism proposal.

I would suggest that anyone who is writing to just state your opposition to the proposed change to the bylaws, including why you believe the way that you do.

To me, any attempt to limit who I can or can not vote for is an affront to my intelligence and is not taken lightly.

Others have said it better than I can. We already have a mechanism for eliminating nepotism if we choose to to do so. We have a mechanism for eliminating any other potential problem if we choose to use it. It's the ballot box.

Eric

Eric

Bentley
11-11-2008, 10:23 PM
It seems as though KCBS is at it again. They are going to discuss the nepotism policy again.

The policy they want to introduce, Nepotism, Would in fact not allow Merl Whitebrook to run for office again as his wife Carolyn is already a member. She was voted in last time.

Aparently there is a petition going around,

I urge any members for or against to express your thoughts to the board.



I was a KCBS member for 5 years. I am not now, so maybe this will fall on dead ears. I posted this definition under another thread, the whole thread is gone I think? I will post it again.

nep⋅o⋅tism 

patronage bestowed or favoritism shown on the basis of family relationship, as in business and politics: She was accused of nepotism when she made her nephew an officer of the firm.


The key word is in red. The family member was not elected!

Maybe the people soliciting the petition don't want family members serving on the BoD, fine, most people have a reason for things, good or bad, just don't label it incorrectly.

And before I could write the BoD's pro or con, I would need to see the petition to make an informed decision, as I would think anyone would? Maybe some of you that have respond to the BoD have seen this petition and can direct the rest of us to it?


If I can be serious for a moment...

It was my last straw.

My membership came up Feb of 2007 and I tossed the renewal in the trash.

I know politics. I grew up and live in Chicago.

I am done with KCBS. They got a no vote of confidence from me, and I didn't renew.

So I'm not a member, or a judge anymore.

I am still disgusted by the actions of the "good ole boys" network in KCBS.



You sound somewhat like me. I finally gave up after years of writing to BoD and getting no response, not that I did not like the answer, I mean 5 years of no response, nada!

I am not done with KCBS, I am just on the sideline. Someone once told me forever was a long time and as I get older I understand what they meant.

Believe me, even if you have members from all over the country you can have a "good ole boys" network! You need the Society to be more open and yes, much more responsive to members inquiries. You may not agree with me and you sure may never implement anything I suggest, but could throw me a bone and just acknowledge that I tried to contact you?

BBQchef33
11-11-2008, 10:36 PM
If I can be serious for a moment...

When this issue came up last year, and the ensuing debate that went on within the Board and on the Net...

It was my last straw.

Parrothead and I took a KCBS judging class in Chicago as soon as we found one. I think it was Feb. of 2004 or so.

I looked forward to competing one day, and would judge in the mean time.

A hurricane in Key Largo in 2005 kept Greg, Me, and Phil from hooking up on a get-a-way vacation slash judging comp.

(PS, I am guessing on the years above)

Fast forward to last year, and I fully admit, I was not able to judge as of yet.

But then the nepotism crap started.

My membership came up Feb of 2007 and I tossed the renewal in the trash.

I know politics.

I grew up and live in Chicago.

I though BBQ was for fun. What I saw last year, with the way the Board tried to squash change, sickened me.

I am done with KCBS.

They got a no vote of confidence from me, and I didnt renew.

So I'm not a member, or a judge anymore.

Boo.

Hoo.

I am still disgusted by the actions of the "good ole boys" network in KCBS.

My solution:

Total replacement

2 from Midwest, 2 from NorthEast, 2 From South, 2 from West, 1 from Cali, 1 from Florida, one from Texas (since they think KCBS is bunkus)

Talk about a well balanced board

Sorry folks, but the BS in KCBS doesnt meant Bull Sheet, it means Bull Chit

You lost me, and will lose more with this kinda crap

Funny...I tried several times writing a letter to the board tonight, each time to throw it away in frustration.. and it was a nearly identical thought process as willkats. If it wasnt for my love of the hobby and sport of BBQ and The Brethren, this would be a last straw for me too. I am ready to give up on KCBS too, but I won't out of respect for those that do try to do whats right. I want to see the organization excel. But they have to stop shooting themselves in the foot!. Hopefully they will handle this situation with the membership in mind.

Keep in mind, unlike last year, I THINK THIS IS A PETITION BROUGHT FORTH BY A MEMBER and NOT THE BOARD ITSELF. HOPING TO BE CORRECTED IF I AM WRONG, BUT I BELIEVE THE BOARD WOULD HAVE TO BRING THIS TO THE TABLE. THEN FOR A VOTE AND THEN AN AMENDMENT VOTED ON BY THE MEMBERSHIP. A BYLAW HOWEVER CAN BE CHANGED UNILATERALLY WITHOUT A VOTE. I am going to reserve judgment until I make a few calls tomorrow to discover the source and content of this petition or request and how it would be handled at the meeting, if at all. If anything, a request should be made to table it until next month so we can line our ducks in a row.

On a personal note, I was approached by many this year, asking me to run for the board. Unlike the previous year, I could not answer them right away. I considered it for several months and I declined in the 11th hour.

Early this past summer, when first approached, my initial reaction was to not run, and the PRIMARY REASON was the embarrassment I felt for KCBS last year after the election when they decided to waste important cycles of the BOD on a witch hunt and petty infighting about various topics. The amount of time wasted, not only by the board, but by the membership in responding to the nepotism debate could have been better spent working on the judging rules, rep guidelines, contests, or things that were of importance to the membership. On the other hand, i felt that if i was there, i may be able to help those that are forward looking and truly acting in the best interest of KCBS as a national organization. What finally made up my mind was the nominee pool and I would rather see those folks on the board. And here we are again, an I am glad I chose not to run. I think if this goes too far, for too long, this can be another black eye for our organization.

Nepotism was AN OBVIOUS NON ISSUE to the membership when Carol Whitebrook was voted in by a huge margin. We have already voted, and nepotism does not hold up in a family oriented sport. It is truly a shame that OUR organization may again sour its own membership but they may also do the right thing which may or may not be to our satisfaction, bu tbe in the best interest of the organization, which I can live with if explained properly.

IMO, Regardless of whose running, be it 3 brothers, or a husband and wife, WE should be the ones to decide. If WE, the membership , doesnt want the three brothers, or husband/wife to be at the table then WE don't vote for them... But I want to make that decision, not have the board room do it.

At this point, regardless of how the topic was brought to the board, its important that we get our message across one way or the other.. so let you board members know how you feel.

Alexa RnQ
11-11-2008, 10:44 PM
My solution:

Total replacement

2 from Midwest, 2 from NorthEast, 2 From South, 2 from West, 1 from Cali, 1 from Florida, one from Texas (since they think KCBS is bunkus)

A-freaking-men.

And both the Midwest officers should be Whitebooks.

It absolutely stuns me that anyone as responsive to the membership as Merle should provoke such ongoing petty backstabbing. If transparency to the membership threatens the rest of the Board so terribly much, perhaps that's the red flag that should draw our attention, not the utter non-issue of nepotism -- which, by the way, cannot exist in an ELECTED position.

Rookie'48
11-11-2008, 11:11 PM
I sent my e-mail to the BOD at 8:15 pm tonite. As of 11:00 pm I have gotten two responses:

This was submitted by a member, not a board member. I don't foresee any board member bringing this up for a vote. In fact, I would be very surprised if there is even any discussion regarding the matter. We addressed this issue earlier in the year. It's over, as far as I'm concerned. I do not support it, didn't have ANYTHING to do with it's origination or circulation.
Troy Black


I think that is defintion of America. Some want KCBS to be a 3rd world county. Thank you for writing to the Board and your support.
Merl


Both of these came in within 45 minutes.

willkat98
11-11-2008, 11:13 PM
Phil, Carol, Merl, and all the current Board,,

I think I regreat posting what I said up thread.

Although my thoughts were quoted, please don't take that as an attack on what you do

I commend you on what you are doing for your sport.

I just want to get that out there.

I dont agree on alot of things, so I chose not to renew,

But never was it meant as a slight.

Just want to get that out there before my post might be misconstrued.

I think the individuals are fine, but the organization as the whole is not something I can pull for at this time.

But what do I know? I am working on my USA Swimming certification for my kid, so my voice means nothing anyway, since I chose to focus my efforts elsewhere.

Kinda sorry I posted here Phil, as I know this part of the forum is serious.

I was serious when I posted, but I really do need to STFU in the Comp forum, since its this Nepo chit that makes my voice sound stupid

Way too many of you folks spend good $ on this stuff, I do not.

I'm going to my room now and will STFU

Sorry if I caused a ruckus

I won't post here again.

I really do wish you all the best with this stuff.

Sorry if I caused a stir

BigBarry
11-11-2008, 11:16 PM
My letter:

Greetings,

I am writing to express my utter frustration and disappointment with the fact that OUR board (remember that, please) is tabling the nepotism issue yet again.

My wife and I compete and promote not only the sport of BBQ but the KCBS and its efforts and results.

I have a simple question:

How can there be nepotism when the board members are ELECTED??? It should not matter who is running - if they get elected they deserve to serve and represent the membership. This organization was started by a HUSBAND and WIFE!

Your time should be spent working on the judging rules, rep guidelines, contests, promotions, or things that are of importance to the membership. Not petty infighting.

Please show some maturity, some common sense and an understanding of who you represent...we, the members. I urge you to not only vote this down but to explain to the membership the reason why this is an issue and why it was brought up again this year.

Your attention has been appreciated.

Regards,

BBQchef33
11-11-2008, 11:38 PM
Kinda sorry I posted here Phil, as I know this part of the forum is serious.

I was serious when I posted, but I really do need to STFU in the Comp forum, since its this Nepo chit that makes my voice sound stupid

Way too many of you folks spend good $ on this stuff, I do not.

I'm going to my room now and will STFU

Sorry if I caused a ruckus

I won't post here again.

I really do wish you all the best with this stuff.

Sorry if I caused a stir


guess i shouldnt have quoted your post.. I was only using it as a lead in to my thoughts. (not directing it at you)

IMO Bill, your post could have been signed by ALOT of people. Its a frustration felt by lots of folks(me included).

PS, doubt anyone took that as a 'slight'

CivilWarBBQ
11-12-2008, 01:13 AM
How quick you all are to jump to conclusions!

I see terms like "witch hunt" and "back stabbing" tossed around from folks who say they've not seen the petition in question and don't know who initiated it. It seems to me like a lot of people are getting all worked up over what amounts to gossip.

As for me, I choose to reserve judgment until I've examined the facts rather than react to rumors. Certainly it's possible that the petition I signed was started by someone with a hidden agenda, but that's not the way it was presented to me. If that was the case then I might regret that motivation, but the basic concept behind the suggested rule change is still sound. As an advocate for transparency and expecting a higher ethical standard for the KCBS administration I would think Merl would understand why putting the issue to a vote of the full membership is the best way to put the question to rest once and for all.

Yakfishingfool
11-12-2008, 06:33 AM
The election of two people to the board is not nepotism, nepotism is giving advantage to family and friends. Elections do not allow that to happen. So if your signing "nepotism" petitions to eliminate family members from running for an elected position consider the reasons behind it very carefully. We all do what we want based on the facts as we understand them. Second. There are two ways to voice your disapproval. First, vote as you feel. Second, and more deeply felt, vote with your wallet, and tell KCBS how you really feel. Money talks and BS walks. With all the problems existing in KCBS competitions and sponsorship there are a splinter group of people who find a way to waste time and resources. Whether this is for personal gain or a misunderstanding, who knows. But come on, lets get the board to solving real problems. Scott

MilitantSquatter
11-12-2008, 06:51 AM
Bill - I think you're right on in a lot of ways.

I too have chosen not to renew my membership at this time so I will not be able to vote. I work too hard to give away even $35 to an organization that does not seem to have their act together in so many areas. Don't get me wrong, there are good BOD members trying their hardest but aside from the Bullsheet, I'm still trying to determine what benefits there are to being a member who may not compete but loves BBQ. The Bullsheet becomes nothing more than five minutes of bathroom reading material each month.

I wish everyone the best in resolving these issues but to me some of these issues become some of the most childish nonsense I have ever read.

It's farking BBQ !!!!

Merl
11-12-2008, 07:02 AM
How quick you all are to jump to conclusions!

I see terms like "witch hunt" and "back stabbing" tossed around from folks who say they've not seen the petition in question and don't know who initiated it. It seems to me like a lot of people are getting all worked up over what amounts to gossip.



Since you signed the petition and talked to the author, if you would reveal the name of the author and the contents of the petition, then those whom you address your message too, could make the determination you ask for. The BOD is tonight, members do not have time to sit back while we use "groupspeak" to confuse the issues.

Alexa RnQ
11-12-2008, 08:04 AM
How quick you all are to jump to conclusions!
I don't believe following the last entire drag-out of this issue even remotely qualifies as "quick".


As an advocate for transparency and expecting a higher ethical standard for the KCBS administration I would think Merl would understand why putting the issue to a vote of the full membership is the best way to put the question to rest once and for all.
A vote BY THE FULL MEMBERSHIP is NOT what is at issue here. An attempted action by the Board to thwart the voice of the membership as demonstrated IN ELECTION is at hand.

Jorge
11-12-2008, 08:43 AM
I've kept my mouth shut on this, until now.

The last time this came up, I got involved a little. More than anything else, I was uncomfortable with the way the issue was brought up originally. It just plain looked bad for several reasons.

During that time, I can remember reading something from Merl that said he could understand if a friend/member had a concern about two members of the board being married (Merl please don't hesitate to correct me if that isn't accurate). While I'm not concerned about Merl and Carol, I may be concerned later if another couple were to be elected; based solely on their actions. I see the point.

The issue I seem to have now is one of transparency, or the lack of transparency. The last time this issue was raised I started a petition myself. Those that were asked to sign knew who was responsible for it, as did the KCBS board. I felt strongly enough about the issue to do it, so there was no reason to try to hide my identity. If the motive behind this current petition is pure, then there should be no reason for the author(s) to remain anonymous. Doing so, does nothing but raise doubt about their motive in my mind.

My .02

Alexa RnQ
11-12-2008, 09:03 AM
Further for those who have let their membership lapse: Mine, too, is up for renewal. But a non-member is a non-vote, and the only leverage the membership HAS is through votes. The only tie to accountability, the only assertion of response to Board actions, is through votes.

Podge
11-12-2008, 10:10 AM
I usually stay out of these KCBS politics, but I will say this.. what ever these issues are, they did not affect my contests I've went to the past few years, and I don't anticipate they will in the coming years.

I believe that No One, and no group of people want to ruin KCBS that are on the BoD or that are running for the BoD. I have faith that KCBS will end up doing what is best to grow and be productive.

jminion
11-12-2008, 10:19 AM
How quick you all are to jump to conclusions!

I see terms like "witch hunt" and "back stabbing" tossed around from folks who say they've not seen the petition in question and don't know who initiated it. It seems to me like a lot of people are getting all worked up over what amounts to gossip.

As for me, I choose to reserve judgment until I've examined the facts rather than react to rumors. Certainly it's possible that the petition I signed was started by someone with a hidden agenda, but that's not the way it was presented to me. If that was the case then I might regret that motivation, but the basic concept behind the suggested rule change is still sound. As an advocate for transparency and expecting a higher ethical standard for the KCBS administration I would think Merl would understand why putting the issue to a vote of the full membership is the best way to put the question to rest once and for all.

Sir
Your position is dishonest at best. You signed the petition and then tell us that we are getting worked up over gossip. Well cure that for us. What did it say and who started it?

This was brought up last year and membership expressed their feelings by giving Carol Whitebook more votes than any other candidate. Now we have the same group that raised the question last year doing it again in the form of a petition and taking it out of the hands of the members and putting it in the hands of the Board.

This a southern thing, that is where the petition came from, it is where the question came from last year and where the petition was circulated this year.

To say this isn't about Merl is dishonest but I guess if you repeat enough times you will be able to believe it.

Bentley
11-12-2008, 10:22 AM
My letter:

I urge you to not only vote this down but to explain to the membership the reason why this is an issue and why it was brought up again this year.




If they do not, it will be brought up again.



I too have chosen not to renew my membership at this time so I will not be able to vote.


Further for those who have let their membership lapse: Mine, too, is up for renewal. But a non-member is a non-vote, and the only leverage the membership HAS is through votes.

Neither will I. I will not financially help a Society that I believe is moving in the wrong direction.

bbqczar
11-12-2008, 11:58 AM
Sir
Your position is dishonest at best. You signed the petition and then tell us that we are getting worked up over gossip. Well cure that for us. What did it say and who started it?

This was brought up last year and membership expressed their feelings by giving Carol Whitebook more votes than any other candidate. Now we have the same group that raised the question last year doing it again in the form of a petition and taking it out of the hands of the members and putting it in the hands of the Board.

This a southern thing, that is where the petition came from, it is where the question came from last year and where the petition was circulated this year.

To say this isn't about Merl is dishonest but I guess if you repeat enough times you will be able to believe it.

Well said Jim ! This is a good old southwern witch hunt,nothing more,nothing less !

stlgreg
11-12-2008, 01:03 PM
Total replacement

2 from Midwest, 2 from NorthEast, 2 From South, 2 from West, 1 from Cali, 1 from Florida, one from Texas (since they think KCBS is bunkus)


I was thinking something like this

Create 9 regions and elect one from each region. Something like this:

West
Rocky Mountains
Southwest
Plains
Upper Midwest
Lower Midwest
Southeast
South
Northeast
We can argue on how to define regions later. Perhaps taking a map of current KCBS members and dividing it up equally (would we have a Kansas and a Missouri region then? - dont know). Anyway, we have three more spots left to be wild cards.

Since we elect 4 BOD members each year, then the first year we elect one BOD member from three different regions plus one Wildcard. The wildcard can be from anywhere can be related to anyone.

We also need to decide what to do if no one from a region wants to run.
We have to decide which regions are up for vote first.
Who decides what the regions are? When do the regions get redrawn?

Does everyone vote on each region or just the members of that region - the person will represent them afterall?

ETC

Hummm, never mind i like it the way it is - this is just to much of a headache and a lot less politics :-D:tongue::icon_bugeyed:twisted:

Bossmanbbq
11-12-2008, 01:52 PM
Sir
Your position is dishonest at best. You signed the petition and then tell us that we are getting worked up over gossip. Well cure that for us. What did it say and who started it?

This was brought up last year and membership expressed their feelings by giving Carol Whitebook more votes than any other candidate. Now we have the same group that raised the question last year doing it again in the form of a petition and taking it out of the hands of the members and putting it in the hands of the Board.

This a southern thing, that is where the petition came from, it is where the question came from last year and where the petition was circulated this year.

To say this isn't about Merl is dishonest but I guess if you repeat enough times you will be able to believe it.

AMEN Jminion !!

So CivilwarBBQ, itís ok for you to sign a petition and circulate it, but an entire different issue if others disagree with your motives and reasoning?

Our opinion and VOTE counts just as much as yours, I think you need to take that into consideration before posting a reply attempting to show the rest of us as being uninformed. Sounds like we all pretty much know what is trying to be done here, the only question is WHO and WHY, other then a personal agenda.

timzcardz
11-12-2008, 02:17 PM
How quick you all are to jump to conclusions!

I see terms like "witch hunt" and "back stabbing" tossed around from folks who say they've not seen the petition in question and don't know who initiated it. It seems to me like a lot of people are getting all worked up over what amounts to gossip.

As for me, I choose to reserve judgment until I've examined the facts rather than react to rumors. Certainly it's possible that the petition I signed was started by someone with a hidden agenda, but that's not the way it was presented to me. If that was the case then I might regret that motivation, but the basic concept behind the suggested rule change is still sound. As an advocate for transparency and expecting a higher ethical standard for the KCBS administration I would think Merl would understand why putting the issue to a vote of the full membership is the best way to put the question to rest once and for all.

That issue is currently put to a vote by the full membership every election, without encumbering future electorates with the current electorates decision.

The membership is fully capable of evaluting the potential for conflict or control of the board, and will cast their vote accordingly at each and every election.

What you are suggesting is that the full membership should decide the future of what they can't be trusted to decide for themselves! That makes no sense at all.

jminion
11-12-2008, 02:44 PM
The problem is Civilwarbbq did understand that this not going in front of the membership it will go infront of the Board and they will decide what choices the membership will have. If the Board decides that the membership is not wise enough or they did not like the outcome of last years vote them they can amend the by-laws as they see fit.

CivilWarBBQ
11-12-2008, 03:47 PM
No.

Jim, you don't know me, so please don't presume to make statements about what I think or what my motivations are. You simply don't know what you are talking about.

For some reason I seem to have become a target for those who are carrying the "witch hunt" banner, so let me set the record straight by laying out the FACTS and put an end to this ridiculous cycle of people making posts where they lay out their own imaginative speculations about me.

I have never created any petition regarding KCBS.

I have never distributed, circulated or asked anyone to sign any petition regarding KCBS.

I am not a personal friend, colleague of or otherwise acquainted with the person who asked me to sign the petition. I believe he was a KCBS Rep that I had met once before but truth be told I don't even remember his name; I was at the Jack, I had other things to think about.

I don't know who the creator of this petition is.

I believe this talk of a "Southern Conspiracy" is silly. As an organizer, cook and judge I am very involved with KCBS contests in Georgia. Yes, many folks I talk to would like to see more regional representation for ALL areas of the country and make our Society less Kansas City-centric. No, there is no organized attempt to somehow undermine the KCBS BoD that I am aware of.

Frankly I am disappointed to see the direction this discussion has taken. I came here originally seeking information about Spicewine cookers and have attempted to give back by being a contributor with my posts. I never expected to end up on the defensive over what appears to be somebody else's personal political drama just for voicing my own opinion on a business question.

I've tried to be clear and honest with all of my posts on this issue, so if you still aren't certain where I stand go back and re-read my earlier posts. Believe what you will, I'm not going to put any more energy into this dialog. I've got a barbecue restaurant to worry about.

-GF

Bentley
11-12-2008, 03:52 PM
If the Board decides that the membership is not wise enough or they did not like the outcome of last years vote them they can amend the by-laws as they see fit.


Then if I was a member...I would make Dang sure the BoD did not have that Farken power!

Jorge
11-12-2008, 04:35 PM
Then if I was a member...I would make Dang sure the BoD did not have that Farken power!

All you have to do is mail in your $35.

Bentley
11-12-2008, 06:06 PM
All you have to do is mail in your $35.

Or not...

Jorge
11-12-2008, 06:12 PM
Or not...

Then you have zero opportunity to fix the perceived defects you complain about.

My .02

Bentley
11-12-2008, 06:18 PM
Then you have zero opportunity to fix the perceived defects you complain about.

My .02


That is correct. The exact same as when I was a member! Read some of my other posts, at no time did KCBS ever acknowledge even one of my contacts with them. I can get that same level of service as a non-member, would you not agree?

Rookie'48
11-12-2008, 10:22 PM
These two answers came in before 8:00 am today. That makes four replies to me from the board, counting the ones from Troy & Merl.


Dave,

Thank you for your response. I believe the membership has the RIGHT to vote for any candidate they feel will represent the organization best. I also believe this issue was addressed last year during the election by the overwhelming majority that Carol won by. Hopefully this issue will be resolved once and for all tomorrow night.

Best in BBQ<
Linda Mullane

Dave,

Thank you for writing the board of directors for the Kansas City Barbecue Society. The issue at hand, specifically the proposal to create a nepotism policy for the KCBS directors is a serious matter. This matter was submitted by a member in good standing and requests that the board discuss and decide it on it in our Wednesday meeting. It appears that membership is polarized, either strongly for it or strongly against it. Be assured that I have read your letter and understand your concern. I believe this issue has merit and will consider your comments when making my decision in the board room.

I appreciate your time in contacting me. As one of the twelve members of the KCBS board, please let me know if I can answer any questions or help in any way.


Sincerely,


Rod Gray
Vice President/Director
Kansas City Barbecue Society
On Nov 11, 2008, at 8:13 PM, Dave C. wrote:

I hear that this subject is again before the board. I feel that we (the KCBS membership) already have a nepotism policy. It is called "The Ballot Box". Each & every candidate for any elective office, be it private, corporate or public, should be evaluated and voted for / against on their OWN merits. If some one feels that there should be no family members serving together, then that person can and proably should vote against any and all candidates that fall under the heading of family members.

Thank you,
Dave Compton
KCBS CBJ # 22569

bbqczar
11-13-2008, 09:24 AM
Everytime I have e-mailed a board meber they have responded withing 48-72 hours,I can live with that kind of speed for a hobby !

big brother smoke
11-13-2008, 09:32 AM
That is correct. The exact same as when I was a member! Read some of my other posts, at no time did KCBS ever acknowledge even one of my contacts with them. I can get that same level of service as a non-member, would you not agree?


Bent,

I am with Jorge on this one. It is sort of like complaining about the outcome of the presidential election and not voting. In the general election the requirement is to register then vote. In KCBS you must pay, register and vote.

Easy Peasy:biggrin:

Now go hug your bag of tree turds :tongue:

Bentley
11-13-2008, 10:23 AM
Bent,

I am with Jorge on this one. It is sort of like complaining about the outcome of the presidential election and not voting. In the general election the requirement is to register then vote. In KCBS you must pay, register and vote.

Easy Peasy:biggrin:

Now go hug your bag of tree turds :tongue:


And I live in the greatest Country in the World and it is my right to be able to!

You forget, I compete in KCBS events. Am I going to put my opinions out there. Better believe it. Will see what happens in the next few years with KCBS, like I said, never is a long time!

BBQ Grail
11-13-2008, 10:28 AM
Might I suggest that sometimes it the delivery of the person voicing their opinion and not the people listening that makes it hard to get stuff done.

Bentley
11-13-2008, 02:18 PM
Might I suggest that sometimes it the delivery of the person voicing their opinion and not the people listening that makes it hard to get stuff done.


Not sure I understand what you mean.

Are you saying, if you dont deliver your message to the Society the way they like or you are not liked by KCBS or a "good ole boy", you get ignored?

You maybe right.

If you are, even more of a reason I do not want to be part of a group like that. They place personalities above principles...I want to associate with the orgainization that takes the opposite approach!

ThomEmery
11-13-2008, 06:10 PM
Might I suggest that sometimes it the delivery of the person voicing their opinion and not the people listening that makes it hard to get stuff done.


Observant fellow

Bentley
11-13-2008, 07:03 PM
I will keep the Brown off my nose and you all can keep the KCBS...

ThomEmery
11-13-2008, 09:38 PM
I will take one week in the pool

BBQchef33
11-13-2008, 09:45 PM
Admin warning. Points been made. Lets leave it at that before this thread takes a bad turn. Talk constructively, don't start pissin on shoes, or leave the thread.

jminion
11-14-2008, 01:30 AM
That is correct. The exact same as when I was a member! Read some of my other posts, at no time did KCBS ever acknowledge even one of my contacts with them. I can get that same level of service as a non-member, would you not agree?

Bentley
You and I both know that in 04 KCBS acknowledged your contact with them.

Bentley
11-14-2008, 10:01 AM
Bentley
You and I both know that in 04 KCBS acknowledged your contact with them.


No Jim you are wrong.

If you are refering to the incident at Modesto, they sent me a letter about my behavior at the contest. I never contacted them, for that matter they never contacted me to ask my side of that incident, they just listen to second hand spectulation and made a ruling, another reason I have no respect for the orgainization.. Thanks for reminding me of that. That had nothing to do with them ever contacting me regarding emails sent to them.

I am not going to regret my past Jim. I try and acknowledge my mistakes and move on.

Since it seems like you want to say something aboout 2004, why dont you Jim, you have my permission to tell what you think happened then. By the way, were you there? Were you a BoD member then?

Sledneck
11-14-2008, 10:19 AM
I think Bentley needs a group hug

Bentley
11-14-2008, 10:22 AM
I think Bentley needs a group hug

You better bring some chalk...You will need more than one person to get around me.

Scottie
11-14-2008, 11:09 AM
I think Bentley needs a group hug


OK... Now you are messing with me... You have no Avatar now? I was figuring a J-E-T-S, Jets Jets Jets.... I bet Bill has a bad case of indigestion today.

OK, sorry... Back on topic..

Group hug....

jminion
11-14-2008, 01:33 PM
No Jim you are wrong.

If you are refering to the incident at Modesto, they sent me a letter about my behavior at the contest. I never contacted them, for that matter they never contacted me to ask my side of that incident, they just listen to second hand spectulation and made a ruling, another reason I have no respect for the orgainization.. Thanks for reminding me of that. That had nothing to do with them ever contacting me regarding emails sent to them.

I am not going to regret my past Jim. I try and acknowledge my mistakes and move on.

Since it seems like you want to say something aboout 2004, why dont you Jim, you have my permission to tell what you think happened then. By the way, were you there? Were you a BoD member then?

I was in Hunstville AL Rep'n with Carolyn Wells when the call came in and she asked me how I thought the situation should be handled, based on the information the Rep on CA reported. At the time I did not even know it was you they were talking about.

Based on the information we had I said the team needed to be DQ and removed from the competition. That was passed onto the Rep in CA and you know better than I how they delt with it.

I was then informed later on the steps you took. KCBS decided your actions to remedy the situation were good enough that Board felt they did not take the step to ban your team from competing (could have been up to a two year ban).

If you feel it was the wrong way to handle it that is your right.

Bentley
11-14-2008, 02:00 PM
If you feel it was the wrong way to handle it that is your right.


Making a decision based on someone elses account of what happened, without even asking the person involved their side of the story, or whether that account was true or not?

Yes, I would say it was handled wrong.

Did you ever consider asking me what happen Jim? Did anyone from KCBS ask my side of the story?

No, because the reps were not present when the incident took place. It happened on Friday night. Was any action taken on Friday night, no. I wonder what information the reps of the contest passed on to you? Did they advise you they were not present when the incident took place? Did you bother to ask that question?

Yes, my team was DQed, but that happen to come 12 hours later, 15 minutes before the 1st turn in! When were you called Jim? Friday or Saturday. If it was Saturday when was it? If it was on Friday, why did the reps wait so long to DQ the team?

Since you were a KCBS BoD at the time, maybe you can answer all the questions no one seemed to want to address at the time.

I am pretty sure most of the Brethren think I am a Drama Queen, so I will drop this, I just dont like partial pictures being given to the crowd.

BBQchef33
11-14-2008, 02:25 PM
Making a decision based on someone elses account of what happened, without even asking the person involved their side of the story, or whether that account was true or not?

Yes, I would say it was handled wrong.

Did you ever consider asking me what happen Jim? Did anyone from KCBS ask my side of the story?


I'm not sure of whats going on here, but there is obvious history behind this stuff, and to avoid anyones dirty laundry from being aired, Id suggest this may be better suited to be taken offline/PM.

Plowboy
11-15-2008, 12:45 AM
When Carol was elected, I asked Merl directly about how he felt about the two of them serving together. I will admit that it did seem a little weird to me that they were both on the BOD. I was probably thinking of conflict of interest and all that. Merl's direct answer to my direct question was satisfactory. The short version of a much longer discussion was that they don't always agree. Being married myself, I know how that is. My wife and I don't always see things the same way. When it comes to political parties and national US government elections, we cancel each other out.

I feel I did what a lot of people should be doing: talk to Merl and Carol and ask them the hard question. Once you've done that, then judge for yourself. I personally don't have a problem with it.

Yes, many folks I talk to would like to see more regional representation for ALL areas of the country and make our Society less Kansas City-centric.

From my count, and I could be missing someone here, there are only three BOD members from the KC area: Rod, Paul, and Ed. All of the other members are spread out across the Midwest, South, and NorthEast.

Most of us in KC don't think KCBS has been KC centric for at least a couple of years now. Hopefully, after the banquet starts moving out of KC, people will start to see that the only thing KC about KCBS is the first two letters of the name.

I am FOR a nationwide society. I am AGAINST representation by region similar to the US Senate. I say leave it as it is and let the best person win no matter where they are from. I voted for three NE candidates last year and only one from my "area". I could have put all of my votes in Midwest candidates, but I didn't. I want choices, not limited choices because we have some demographic based affirmative action.

BBQchef33
11-15-2008, 08:36 AM
I thought when they say regional representatives, they were looking aside from the board. To regionalize into 6-9-12?( however many regions), have ONE regional contact and that person be the voicebox TO he board. Anyway, thats topic for new thread. We can spilt it anyone want to discuss it.

Merl
11-15-2008, 08:42 AM
When Carol was elected, I asked Merl directly about how he felt about the two of them serving together. I will admit that it did seem a little weird to me that they were both on the BOD. I was probably thinking of conflict of interest and all that. Merl's direct answer to my direct question was satisfactory. The short version of a much longer discussion was that they don't always agree. Being married myself, I know how that is. My wife and I don't always see things the same way. When it comes to political parties and national US government elections, we cancel each other out.

I feel I did what a lot of people should be doing: talk to Merl and Carol and ask them the hard question. Once you've done that, then judge for yourself. I personally don't have a problem with it.

Thank you Todd, You have been around Carol and I on many occasions. Although many votes are just a voice count, Carol does not go along with my views many times, and is out spoken if she does not agree with me.

I appreciate that your votes have been for a person who brings skills to the table.
Carol is the executive director of a Boy Scouts of America Council and has expertise in non-profit administration.
I am an attorney and have expertise in legal matters, with 30 years experience of serving non for profit boards.

In addition we both Cook, Rep, Teach and most importantly we value the friendships we have attained through KCBS.

Thank you for your trust and confidence. I will do my best to earn and maintain it in future, as well.

Yours in Barbeque
Merl Whitebook

BBQchef33
11-15-2008, 09:02 AM
arlie.. u been hangin out at the bait shop too long. :)

ThomEmery
11-15-2008, 09:07 AM
I thought when they say regional representatives, they were looking aside from the board. To go regional into 6-9-12?( however many regions), have ONE regional contact and that person be the voicebox TO he board. Anyway, thats topic for new thread. We can spilt it anyone want to discuss it.


The 6 Regional and 6 At Large would satisfy both the areas that have many members and those that have not had voice on the BoD

BBQchef33
11-15-2008, 10:29 AM
The 6 Regional and 6 At Large would satisfy both the areas that have many members and those that have not had voice on the BoD


thats a new concept I just read about. Earlier discussions i thought were for 'regional reps' that were in addition to the BOD that can speak to the board on behalf of regional issues, contests, ideas, etc.

and a different perspective.

Perception IS Reality.

Folks in outlying areas feel they do not have representation outside of the midwest or KC area. This manifests from outlying areas NOT having the concentration of contests that are present in the midwest and KC areas surrounding states. Now understanding this is not the direct fault of KCBS as an organization it can be attributed to the lack of represention in the form of team concentration, local reps, organizers, etc. These are all underlying factors. Regional representation, IMO, would enable smaller organizations and groups to work together to increase activity IN THEIR REGIONS as well as give folks the feeling they have an ear besides jsut the board of directors. Regional reps can organize meeitngs with local reps, organizers, even members to work out issues, whether it be to be brought to the BOD, or to just hash out issues and come up with ideas, strategies etc, to help the regions expand. I think a concept like this will encourage more folks to get involved and keep the R&d committee and New Ideas commitee busy.

KCBS is growing. A centralized group of 12 folks cannot facilitate the growth on a single national level, but dividing up into groups and working together CAN faciltate growth of the individual regions, all feeding up to the mother organization.

No national organization or corporation is run at a 50,000 foot level. They are all run in smaller levels, be it regionals, statewide, area, even city.. But in order to grow, attention needs to be directed in the areas of slow growth so they can expand before they die off, whereas the established areas will continue to thrive on their own.


well.. thats my dime anyway..

ThomEmery
11-15-2008, 12:07 PM
Does anyone happen to know KCBS membership numbers by State?

BBQchef33
11-15-2008, 12:22 PM
i know one from NY.

:)

Merl
11-15-2008, 12:53 PM
This is the report which was provided to the Board last week. The popular trend is the 6 regions and 6 at large members with two regions and two at large seats voted upon each year. This will require three years to implement fully.

We have a lot to talk about. Please pm your thoughts and ideas.
Yours in BBQ
Merl
New Ideas Report

The New Ideas committee has been researching other type of national organizations which provide for regional representation in the makeup of national non profit boards.

The ideas which have been discussed are as follows: (remember there are 12 seats)

1. Every Board member represents a region of the country, the boundaries are geographic.

2. Every Board member represents a region of the country, the boundaries are determined by membership density where each region represents the same number of members. (Would hurt the west and north)

3. A board made up of 4 or 6 regions with the remaining members of the board being members at large. This is one of the most popular methods. By doing this each region has a voice, with a group of board members who are responsible to the entire membership.

In as much as four seats are open each election period this would be phased in over a three year period.

As we develop this further we will share further research and design of this project. No action is asked for at this time. The Committee is interested in feedback from the Board of Directors as we move forward to present next year a well thought out plan.

Respectfully submitted.
Merl Whitebook
New Ideas Committee.

lunchlady
11-15-2008, 05:00 PM
I thought when they say regional representatives, they were looking aside from the board..

yah... me too.

Like people have been saying, if we VOTE for who we think would make a good BoD member, they either get in or they dont. That's the beauty of an election.
But regional reps would be just that... representatives that could then give people a voice.

BBQchef33
11-15-2008, 05:36 PM
2 things.


1 - this thread has been scrubbed please keep it on topic and stop baiting folks to drag it off.

2 - Merl. I like my idea better.:mrgreen::wink:. REGIONAL REPRESENTATIVES. Run KCBS like a corporation. Divisionilize or Regionilize, appoint low level management and empower them. Let the board tend to Board operations, let the regional reps do day to day and tend to the details, bringing to the board the issues of the membership.

ThomEmery
11-16-2008, 09:02 AM
Phil Just not sure about creating another level bureaucracy
Keeping it simple with the 6 at large and 6 regional seems best
But hey its all ideas right now

Bentley
11-16-2008, 12:11 PM
In today's computer age, why not poll the membership when it comes to questions that effect the general membership.

It that an unrealistic option?

MilitantSquatter
11-16-2008, 12:25 PM
In today's computer age, why not poll the membership when it comes to questions that effect the general membership.

It that an unrealistic option?

Not unrealistic unless the cost to do it is prohibitive and would potentially raise membership fee.

A regular forum poll leaves too much room for problems like multiple voting. It would need to be in a controlled manner like the online BOD election process but I am sure that the cost is not cheap since it's overseen by a third party

Merl
11-16-2008, 01:13 PM
Vinny, we have used Elections On-Line for the past two years. It uses our members e-mails, membership numbers and generates a password. It has been a very good resource. The cost is just under $5,000.00 for our organization. When you consider when we mailed ballots at cost of .42 cents per member plus paper and printing, this is very much in line, and much easier. We do offer any member a paper ballot if they call the office. Last year we had ONE request for a paper ballot.

Yours in Q
Merl Whitebook
KCBS Board of Directors.

CivilWarBBQ
11-16-2008, 03:08 PM
Wow, only one request. That surprises me - I guess KCBS members are more hitech than I had expected!

Merl, who is on the New Ideas committee besides yourself?

Bride of Roo(BQ'n)
11-16-2008, 03:11 PM
Would it be plausable to extend this years voting to include some poll type questions on directions that the BOD is thinking of pursuint? Two birds one stone with the hiring of Elections OnLine already being hired.

Bentley
11-16-2008, 04:24 PM
A regular forum poll leaves too much room for problems like multiple voting.

I am not a computer expert...Are you saying that KCBS (or any Association) could not set up a poll are on there site where you would have to log in with your KCBS# and get one vote?

I guess I have a disconnect between how Elections Online can do it and someone like KCBS or any BBQ Association cant impliment the same (ie non-propritary) software? It is not like KCBS (or any Association) would not use it year after year after year just for elections, and then it could be used to poll members on important matters.

BBQchef33
11-16-2008, 04:40 PM
Bently, that is something that is easy to do technically, there are many ways to ensure single shot voting, but the results can then be tampered with by anyone that has access to the database.

By hiring a third party, it eliminates any accusations being made at the end of the election.


but for the purpose of getting member feedback, i think its a feasible idea.

Plowboy
11-16-2008, 04:42 PM
We used to use zoomerang.com (http://www.zoomerang.com). There are third parties out there that aren't super expensive to do surveys.

Plowboy
11-16-2008, 04:43 PM
I'm sure MMA could set something up for us.

<ducking>

arlieque
11-16-2008, 05:32 PM
I'm sure MMA could set something up for us.

<ducking>

You better duck.....haha Hope Scottie see's this. You think we could get a discount if they did it. Can you tell me just how they have helped KCBS other than a website and a 5o cent coupon off hot sauce?

arlieque
11-16-2008, 05:36 PM
Bently, that is something that is easy to do technically, there are many ways to ensure single shot voting, but the results can then be tampered with by anyone that has access to the database.

By hiring a third party, it eliminates any accusations being made at the end of the election.


but for the purpose of getting member feedback, i think its a feasible idea.

Phil I think we both would agree that you would have to be a member to voice your opinion on issue's with KCBS.

MilitantSquatter
11-16-2008, 05:57 PM
Phil I think we both would agree that you would have to be a member to voice your opinion on issue's with KCBS.


Arlie - I partially disagree with you. I understand your perspective though.

KCBS does not require that all contestants must be a dues paying member to compete in KCBS sanctioned contests and receive the benefits of their judging system. A contestant is still paying lots of money to compete and support a contest. With KCBS sanctioning the majority of contests nationwide, a contestant does not have many options to not compete in a KCBS event. They may still be dissatisfied with some of what they experience. And for that, they should have every right to voice their opinions as long as it's done fairly and for good reason.

Scottie
11-16-2008, 06:17 PM
You better duck.....haha Hope Scottie see's this. You think we could get a discount if they did it. Can you tell me just how they have helped KCBS other than a website and a 5o cent coupon off hot sauce?

No comment.

Bentley
11-16-2008, 06:24 PM
Arlie - I partially disagree with you. I understand your perspective though.

KCBS does not require that all contestants must be a dues paying member to compete in KCBS sanctioned contests and receive the benefits of their judging system. A contestant is still paying lots of money to compete and support a contest. With KCBS sanctioning the majority of contests nationwide, a contestant does not have many options to not compete in a KCBS event. They may still be dissatisfied with some of what they experience. And for that, they should have every right to voice their opinions as long as it's done fairly and for good reason.


Thank you for highlighting a point I am not able to get across to some.

arlieque
11-16-2008, 06:42 PM
Arlie - I partially disagree with you. I understand your perspective though.

KCBS does not require that all contestants must be a dues paying member to compete in KCBS sanctioned contests and receive the benefits of their judging system. A contestant is still paying lots of money to compete and support a contest. With KCBS sanctioning the majority of contests nationwide, a contestant does not have many options to not compete in a KCBS event. They may still be dissatisfied with some of what they experience. And for that, they should have every right to voice their opinions as long as it's done fairly and for good reason.

Vinny, I do agree with you to some point. Some people however never let up, complaint about every little thing especilly on issues that would be of part of the membership. If you have money to enter contest that is fine but it doesnt always give you the right to $itch ! It you want to make a difference BE A MEMBER! It takes a strong membership to make a difference in this sport!

Hope to see you soon, Take Care.

Jacked UP BBQ
11-16-2008, 09:00 PM
I just became a member of the kcbs, because I became a cbj. I am not sure I agree with the fact that only members should have input on how contests should be ran and possible different rules. They hand out feedback forms at the end of comps and tell you to fill them out whether you are a member or not. I believe if they allow you to compete you should have any say in it. If I invest 1500 to go to a contest that is sanctioned by the kcbs, whether a member or not, I should have a right to give input to the organizer or sanctioning organization. If they accpept my money to be in their events, that kind of makes me an accepted memeber? This entire thing seems way to complicated for bbq, I thought the presidential race was tough!!!! I hope everyone gets a fair shot to get there opinions out there. Remember one thing, Joe the non members money is just as green as Bill the members money when they let him compete. Everyone should have a say!

BBQchef33
11-16-2008, 10:08 PM
^^^^

yeah, what he said. We are talking about offering feedback, not voting for a board member or by law changes.

Membership has its privileges. The ability to vote for the board, and have a voice to institute change, to get the bullsheet, to support the org, to get the discounts.. etc

but things like offering feedback about events they attended, folks should, and ARE welcome to speak up.

ThomEmery
11-17-2008, 08:04 AM
:) Until the up charge for non members comes into play :)
It that idea still out there?
You remember KCBS/MMA was going to ask Organizers to charge the extra to non members so folks would be motivated to sign up


As I recall Brother Arlie was rather excited about this one :)

arlieque
11-17-2008, 08:27 AM
Yep I was highly against that. Costs are high enough without charging non members to cook the contests, MMA tryed to make it look like a discount but we all know about all the discounts they have got the membership. Input on contests from all teams including non member teams is great. However if there are important issues we want to see changed it comes down to the membership that votes. I think you will find that most teams are members or someone on that team. I feel we need to make changes so that all the teams would want to be members, that is where it starts. Be it a better Bullsheet, members only area on the website, live updated team of the year, real discounts and informing the membership with better communications would be a good start!

Arlie

Scottie
11-17-2008, 09:20 AM
that sorta sounds like the song and dance we got at the banquet... All the new benefits we were getting by having a marketing company taking care of us. Safe to say, I think we are still waiting?... I just hope they have the Team of the Year standings done now by the banquet. :mad:

Plowboy
11-17-2008, 10:13 AM
I just hope they have the Team of the Year standings done now by the banquet. :mad:

I kinda hope they don't. I think we are looking better under the old scoring system. :biggrin: