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oceanpigassassins
10-29-2008, 11:05 AM
Does everybody put there chicken on the grill to get the skin crispy?

Scottie
10-29-2008, 11:11 AM
No..

Cue's Your Daddy
10-29-2008, 11:11 AM
we do not

Darryld
10-29-2008, 11:15 AM
we don't

Transformer BBQ
10-29-2008, 11:15 AM
No..

Just turn the dial to clockwise to "Crispy Chicken Skin"?

:rolleyes:

Jacked UP BBQ
10-29-2008, 11:21 AM
Have you ever tried chicken skin crisper dust

Dale P
10-29-2008, 11:21 AM
i do like crispy fried chicken. if our bbq skin is crispy, so is the meat.

YankeeBBQ
10-29-2008, 11:22 AM
Nope.

Scottie
10-29-2008, 11:31 AM
Just turn the dial to clockwise to "Crispy Chicken Skin"?

:rolleyes:


Hater...

Rightstuff
10-29-2008, 11:32 AM
Nope.

oceanpigassassins
10-29-2008, 11:34 AM
Not saying get your skin real crispy but make sure it's not rubbery

YankeeBBQ
10-29-2008, 11:36 AM
Don't use a grill for chicken period. Don't have rubbery skin

Scottie
10-29-2008, 11:41 AM
What about your old chicken cooking machine that you had? Until I had to bring it back out west?

I agree, don't need a grill to get crispy or bite through skin. As Brendan pointed out, I just click it over to the "money" setting on my dial. I call it money, cause they want to keep giving it to me... :eek:

And I still have your t-shirts on my desk Brendan... Fortunately, I have a big desk and credenza and it doesn't take up a lot of space.. lol

BurntFinger_Jason
10-29-2008, 11:50 AM
Any tips for getting bite through skin on a smoker? Or is everyone keeping their secrets to themselves?

Lakeside Smoker
10-29-2008, 11:56 AM
I had crispy skin this weekend...salty, burnt, crispy skin.

Bbq Bubba
10-29-2008, 11:58 AM
Just turn the dial to clockwise to "Crispy Chicken Skin"?

:rolleyes:

Hater...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Bbq Bubba
10-29-2008, 12:00 PM
This is the best info you'll get on chicken.....

http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4880069052/m/3380093152

Podge
10-29-2008, 12:15 PM
This is the best info you'll get on chicken.....

http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4880069052/m/3380093152

I would agree.. but it amazes me when people know that this is available but still have chicken issues ?!?!?

Sledneck
10-29-2008, 12:17 PM
This is the best info you'll get on chicken.....

http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4880069052/m/3380093152

I would agree.. but it amazes me when people know that this is available but still have chicken issues ?!?!?That technique makes it bite through , not crispy

BurntFinger_Jason
10-29-2008, 12:22 PM
This is the best info you'll get on chicken.....

http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4880069052/m/3380093152

Based on what I've read at this link, and many others, is sounds like the only way to get crispy (or non rubbery) skin on chicken is to put some higher temps on it.

Bbq Bubba
10-29-2008, 12:24 PM
That technique makes it bite through , not crispy

Theres no such thing as crispy chicken skin. :cool:

Podge
10-29-2008, 12:31 PM
That technique makes it bite through , not crispy

I reckon i should have asked first if he wants crispy skin for his own personal taste or if he thinks he needs crispy skin for competition.

Sledneck
10-29-2008, 12:38 PM
Theres no such thing as crispy chicken skin. :cool:
Whatchu talking about willis?

Jacked UP BBQ
10-29-2008, 12:39 PM
I would agree.. but it amazes me when people know that this is available but still have chicken issues ?!?!?


I have to say this method makes the skin no good. Kind of mushy if anything. Have tried it and would have to say its not 100%.

BBQSMYBFF
10-29-2008, 12:41 PM
whatchu talking about willis?


that looks like some finger lickin shizzle... Now i know how you win.. Make fried chicken.. Lol

Jacked UP BBQ
10-29-2008, 12:43 PM
I have a question - can you cook your chicken on a cast iron pan if it is over charcoal and or wood????

BBQSMYBFF
10-29-2008, 12:44 PM
I have a question - can you cook your chicken on a cast iron pan if it is over charcoal and or wood????


as long as it is not a gas or a electric heat source or fire starter while the angle of the dangle and the heat of the meat is on the cooker. :lol::lol:

Bbq Bubba
10-29-2008, 12:47 PM
Whatchu talking about willis?

I was expecting that! :biggrin:

The Giggler
10-29-2008, 12:49 PM
I had crispy skin this weekend...salty, burnt, crispy skin.

Yeah, we had the bland Vibram variety. :roll:

Bentley
10-29-2008, 12:52 PM
I have a question - can you cook your chicken on a cast iron pan if it is over charcoal and or wood????


Till someone shows you a rule where you can't I think you could!

I can make bite through, have not been able to accomplish chrispy without the skin pulling way back on the piece of meat.

oceanpigassassins
10-29-2008, 12:54 PM
So iI guess just use high heat

Sledneck
10-29-2008, 12:56 PM
Till someone shows you a rule where you can't I think you could!

I can make bite through, have not been able to accomplish chrispy without the skin pulling way back on the piece of meat.
yep many a postage stamp in my chicken history

BBQSMYBFF
10-29-2008, 01:01 PM
yep many a postage stamp in my chicken history


you use postage stamps on your chicken!? that is completely crazy. lol

what is wrong with you?!? espresso got your brain going kookoo!??

oceanpigassassins
10-29-2008, 01:03 PM
Thanks sled I'll take a look at that.By the way nice wheels

NotleyQue
10-29-2008, 01:04 PM
At the last comp we did, my teammate made chicken skin so tough, the US Armed forces now use it to protect the HumVees in Iraq. It was neither crispy, bite through or rubbery. It was kevlar.

oceanpigassassins
10-29-2008, 01:07 PM
Hey bbqsmybff I bet you would eat chicken with a stamp on it

Scottie
10-29-2008, 01:07 PM
as long as it is not a gas or a electric heat source or fire starter while the angle of the dangle and the heat of the meat is on the cooker. :lol::lol:


Wrong. It can't be fried either... Rule #6.

BBQSMYBFF
10-29-2008, 01:10 PM
Wrong. It can't be fried either... Rule #6.


but he didnt ask to fry it.. asked if he could cook it in a cast iron pan.. which you cant. just can fry it.. lol :twisted::lol::lol::mrgreen:


stop talking to me scotty.. you make me want to turn into a farking pellet head... darn fecs!!! lol hahaha

BBQSMYBFF
10-29-2008, 01:11 PM
At the last comp we did, my teammate made chicken skin so tough, the US Armed forces now use it to protect the HumVees in Iraq. It was neither crispy, bite through or rubbery. It was kevlar.


hey,

sounds like my motto.. if you cant beat the judges hurt the judges.. always wanted to do dessert and make a chocolate laxative cake.. :lol::lol: man would that make them a quiet loose crowd!!! hahahahahah

YankeeBBQ
10-29-2008, 01:15 PM
Wrong. It can't be fried either... Rule #6.

That is not correct. The chicken can be fried just not "deep fried"

oceanpigassassins
10-29-2008, 01:16 PM
He's all jacked up on bbq and has know where to go. Never mind bbq he can't catch a fish with a forty foot net

stlgreg
10-29-2008, 01:25 PM
hey,

sounds like my motto.. if you cant beat the judges hurt the judges.. always wanted to do dessert and make a chocolate laxative cake.. :lol::lol: man would that make them a quiet loose crowd!!! hahahahahah

isnt that criminal?
I wouldnt want to get caught doing that even as a joke.

Paola Greg
10-29-2008, 01:33 PM
That is not correct. The chicken can be fried just not "deep fried"

Correct, a skillet may be used and the chicken may be fried, just not "deep fried", as long as an approved heat source/cooker is used. I recall this came up a year or two ago and was ruled on by the Board and published in the Bullsheet.

barbefunkoramaque
10-29-2008, 01:43 PM
Based on what I've read at this link, and many others, is sounds like the only way to get crispy (or non rubbery) skin on chicken is to put some higher temps on it.


Yes, but with some Cavats.

The tips for crispy skin include:

1. Dry chicken... dry dry dry. Oh, and make sure the chicken is dry.
2. The dust the guy mentioned is a good thing. They are usually ( make my own that doubles as a fryer dust) of a high season to flour ration, so its cross between a rub and a breading.
3. Skin down at first, Then Flip and reseason.
4. High temps often above 350.
5. Clear Smoke
6. Very rare opening of smoker
7. If you must spritz... use a high vinegar spray.

Never foil or cover

My skin, you can hear it crackle when you bite in. Remove the dust and you have bite through skin.

iF YOUR GONNA USE glazes - early use Honey based Glazes.

I also think honey and brown sugars in Brines helps in skins in turkeys.

Scottie
10-29-2008, 01:48 PM
Define "deep"... If you are going to rest your contest in the hands of some reps that are out there and their definition of "deep"... Good luck with that...

Jacked UP BBQ
10-29-2008, 02:10 PM
Deep fry would be meat completely covered in fat.

Dale P
10-29-2008, 02:13 PM
Tried it once. Oil kills the smoke flavor.

Scottie
10-29-2008, 02:15 PM
Deep fry would be meat completely covered in fat.


Sorry that is not defined in the rules, so it would therefore be up to the reps to define...

Jacked UP BBQ
10-29-2008, 02:19 PM
Do the reps have the control and authority to make new rules as they see fit? Or can they only make decisions based on the rules as they are writteN?

pigmaker23
10-29-2008, 02:26 PM
did we sell the meadow creek chicken cooker ?

Don't use a grill for chicken period. Don't have rubbery skin

YankeeBBQ
10-29-2008, 02:27 PM
did we sell the meadow creek chicken cooker ?

Not yet wanna buy it ?

Jacked UP BBQ
10-29-2008, 02:29 PM
Not yet wanna buy it ?

i might, how much?

Transformer BBQ
10-29-2008, 02:30 PM
Do the reps have the control and authority to make new rules as they see fit? Or can they only make decisions based on the rules as they are writteN?



1. The decision and interpretations of the KCBS Rules and Regulations are at the discretion of the KCBS Contest Representatives at the contest. Their decisions and interpretations are final.


They say its deep frying... its deep frying... DQ, pack your stuff... your contest is over.

pigmaker23
10-29-2008, 02:31 PM
i thought it tasted good, oh yea, i was sick forgot about that !!!! :-D:-D


Yeah, we had the bland Vibram variety. :roll:

YankeeBBQ
10-29-2008, 02:36 PM
i might, how much?

There $575 new I would be willing to sell it for $450. It's barely used

Scottie
10-29-2008, 02:43 PM
1. The decision and interpretations of the KCBS Rules and Regulations are at the discretion of the KCBS Contest Representatives at the contest. Their decisions and interpretations are final.



They say its deep frying... its deep frying... DQ, pack your stuff... your contest is over.



Exactly... But I personally would recommend anyone that I cook against to use this method for cooking... I promise to not tell the reps... :twisted:

Scottie
10-29-2008, 02:44 PM
There $575 new I would be willing to sell it for $450. It's barely used


Does it have the credentials like that Lodge habachi grill you got rid of? He's probably not even using it... lol

YankeeBBQ
10-29-2008, 02:46 PM
Does it have the credentials like that Lodge habachi grill you got rid of? He's probably not even using it... lol

I took 2nd place chicken the first time using it in Lake Placid.

Scottie
10-29-2008, 02:51 PM
I wasn't cooking chicken back in those days... I don't think my new recipe broke out until the following week. After you waxed me... That was the final straw... :eek: Hmmm... Maybe I should buy it... Nah, I am a pellet cooker.

YankeeBBQ
10-29-2008, 02:53 PM
I wasn't cooking chicken back in those days... I don't think my new recipe broke out until the following week. After you waxed me... That was the final straw... :eek: Hmmm... Maybe I should buy it... Nah, I am a pellet cooker.

Generator for Chicken Cooker and some cash ??? Hmm Hmm

Scottie
10-29-2008, 02:57 PM
I'll need a NEBS contest for next year. As I **might** have a conflict in my schedule for going out to Lake Placid... Any new one's? Preferably, NH, Maine, CT or MA... As I hacve not cooked inthose states... Oh and RI too...

You should see the new generator... sweet.

YankeeBBQ
10-29-2008, 03:00 PM
I'll need a NEBS contest for next year. As I **might** have a conflict in my schedule for going out to Lake Placid... Any new one's? Preferably, NH, Maine, CT or MA... As I hacve not cooked inthose states... Oh and RI too...

You should see the new generator... sweet.

Yeah there may be a new Maine one and a new MA one. The CT one this year was pretty good.
The festival that the Maine contest will be part of was held August 9th and 10th this year.

Scottie
10-29-2008, 03:06 PM
Sweet. Never been to Maine... I hope it's on the coast... Lobstah....

Bentley
10-29-2008, 03:12 PM
yep many a postage stamp in my chicken history


I should understand this reference, I just can't figure out the meaning?

The skin looks like a postage stamp on the thiegh? If that is it, then yeah, thats my crispy chicken, and BTW all the skin comes off when you bite it!

Gowan
10-29-2008, 11:52 PM
We get perfect tender skin every time with our own special technique. However, my buddy Big Jim of Bareknuckles has been tearing up the circuit down here with his crispy skin chicken all last year.

Find a method that works for you that you like; either can win!

Arlin_MacRae
10-30-2008, 09:25 AM
Gents, stay civil and on topic here, please.

If you gotta beat on each other, take it to Woodpile. Better yet, PM each other...

BBQSMYBFF
10-30-2008, 09:29 AM
Yeah there may be a new Maine one and a new MA one. The CT one this year was pretty good.
The festival that the Maine contest will be part of was held August 9th and 10th this year.


i hope you guys have one up there.. been wanting to come up there and see the sites.. got a friend with a family home up in maine somewhere...

but ct looks good too if they are near the water!!

we need to have a bbq contest with a fishing tournament in one!! lol

YankeeBBQ
10-30-2008, 09:32 AM
i hope you guys have one up there.. been wanting to come up there and see the sites.. got a friend with a family home up in maine somewhere...

but ct looks good too if they are near the water!!

we need to have a bbq contest with a fishing tournament in one!! lol

Is your friend in Ogunquit :wink:

BBQSMYBFF
10-30-2008, 09:38 AM
Is your friend in Ogunquit :wink:


maybe... :icon_shock1::icon_shock1::icon_shock1: lol

Jacked UP BBQ
10-30-2008, 09:38 AM
Is your friend in Ogunquit :wink:

Probably if there are a lot of Rainbow Flags

Scottie
10-30-2008, 09:41 AM
Is your friend in Ogunquit :wink:


A mere 18 hours... And it looks like some prime lobstah country... I might have to stay an extra day..

Jorge
10-30-2008, 10:46 AM
Gents, stay civil and on topic here, please.

If you gotta beat on each other, take it to Woodpile. Better yet, PM each other...

What he said.

Maybe the moderators have played out too much rope in this forum. In more than one case lately things have gone beyond friendly banter. If as a group, you want to return to everything posted having to be strictly on topic that can happen.

If you find that a particular person is continuously pushing your buttons there is always the option to place them on your ignore list.

The moderators here have jobs and families as well. They do not exist simply to come along and clean up the messes that you may have made, so that you can go along your merry way without giving any thought to the consequences of your actions. Every time they have to clean something up, you are taking time from their collective days.

In the past two weeks I have spent too much time, that I don't have to spare, on the phone, sending PMs, and responding to email about one thing or another that has almost without fail originated in this particular forum. What seemed to have been isolated incidents seem to be turning into a culture. I don't have time to deal with it, and I'm confident you'd get a similar response from every moderator you asked.

I'm not going to single anyone out, either publicly or privately. Read the forum rules and abide by them. If you want to fark around and BS take it to Woodpile. If you want to engage in some friendly banter that doesn't derail a thread or become personal that's fine.

Sledneck
10-30-2008, 10:49 AM
We get perfect tender skin every time with our own special technique. However, my buddy Big Jim of Bareknuckles has been tearing up the circuit down here with his crispy skin chicken all last year.

Find a method that works for you that you like; either can win!Would you care to share the technique?

Jacked UP BBQ
10-30-2008, 11:02 AM
DO they want tender bite through or crispy bite through. I would say from a texture stand point, crispy would be a lot more pleasing. Soggy bite through is king of nasty, imo.

Sledneck
10-30-2008, 11:06 AM
DO they want tender bite through or crispy bite through. I would say from a texture stand point, crispy would be a lot more pleasing. Soggy bite through is king of nasty, imo.
AN equal balance of both

BBQSMYBFF
10-30-2008, 11:11 AM
AN equal balance of both


wow.. this stuff is tough.. i think i got to get some chicken and do some practice runs!! party at my house!! lol

oceanpigassassins
10-30-2008, 12:54 PM
You better check with your wife first.

Gowan
10-30-2008, 02:52 PM
Would you care to share the technique?

I'm afraid that's going to have to remain a secret. I spent three years and God knows how many thighs developing a process that took our chicken from our weakest category to first place, and I'm not ready to let it out.

One tip I can share for working up your own technique is that you can do your skin experiments in the oven. Obviously the flavor won't be there but when you are testing for tenderness the oven is very convenient and the temp control more accurate than most smokers. I used the oven to determine what cooking time and temps worked with my prep method by testing with basic S&P seasoning, removing a couple thighs at ten minute intervals until I zeroed in on the right combination. It took a lot of thighs, but none was wasted because I just chopped it all up for chicken salad.

Once you've done the bulk of the testing in the oven, you can move to the smoker for final tweaking.

Gowan
10-30-2008, 02:56 PM
DO they want tender bite through or crispy bite through. I would say from a texture stand point, crispy would be a lot more pleasing. Soggy bite through is king of nasty, imo.

Although KCBS rules don't favor one over the other, I'd say crispy is the idea if you can achieve it. The trouble is since you can't control the holding time it is difficult (at least for me) to get skin that STAYS crispy in the box for the 15min it may end up sitting before the judge samples it.

Since we've been able to nail down bite-through skin I gave up on crispy.

Arlin_MacRae
10-30-2008, 03:01 PM
IOne tip I can share for working up your own technique is that you can do your skin experiments in the oven. Obviously the flavor won't be there but when you are testing for tenderness the oven is very convenient and the temp control more accurate than most smokers. I used the oven to determine what cooking time and temps worked with my prep method by testing with basic S&P seasoning, removing a couple thighs at ten minute intervals until I zeroed in on the right combination. It took a lot of thighs, but none was wasted because I just chopped it all up for chicken salad.

Once you've done the bulk of the testing in the oven, you can move to the smoker for final tweaking.

That's some awesome advice there. Then it's reduced to a known method and temperature control.

+1 to ya CWBBQ!

Bentley
10-30-2008, 03:13 PM
The trouble is since you can't control the holding time it is difficult (at least for me) to get skin that STAYS crispy in the box for the 15min it may end up sitting before the judge samples it.



I think that is a Hugh factor.

Brew-B-Q
10-30-2008, 03:21 PM
I'm afraid that's going to have to remain a secret. I spent three years and God knows how many thighs developing a process that took our chicken from our weakest category to first place, and I'm not ready to let it out.

One tip I can share for working up your own technique is that you can do your skin experiments in the oven. Obviously the flavor won't be there but when you are testing for tenderness the oven is very convenient and the temp control more accurate than most smokers. I used the oven to determine what cooking time and temps worked with my prep method by testing with basic S&P seasoning, removing a couple thighs at ten minute intervals until I zeroed in on the right combination. It took a lot of thighs, but none was wasted because I just chopped it all up for chicken salad.

Once you've done the bulk of the testing in the oven, you can move to the smoker for final tweaking.

I've been following this thread as I've had some chicken issues lately. It's funny, because I just thought about using the oven today. It's kind of a pain to set up the smoker in the dead of winter just to practice chicken, so I think I'm going to take your advice.

By the way, I'm in FL on vacation and I end up eating at an Amish joint, getting smoked bbq chicken. Was pretty damn good and was smoked well. I expected grilled, to be honest, but they had some good chicken.

Sledneck
10-30-2008, 03:32 PM
I've been following this thread as I've had some chicken issues lately. It's funny, because I just thought about using the oven today. It's kind of a pain to set up the smoker in the dead of winter just to practice chicken, so I think I'm going to take your advice.

By the way, I'm in FL on vacation and I end up eating at an Amish joint, getting smoked bbq chicken. Was pretty damn good and was smoked well. I expected grilled, to be honest, but they had some good chicken.Was it crispy? bite through? or both? did you ask him his technique?

Brew-B-Q
10-30-2008, 03:35 PM
Was it crispy? bite through? or both? did you ask him his technique?

It was bite through, and a bit crispy. It was a chicken quarter, which I have less trouble with personally. It had faint grill marks, so I think it was put on a grill right before serving. I did not get to speak with the cook.

Sledneck
10-30-2008, 03:42 PM
Next contest I am going to bring an Amish guy to cook with me. Think he is going to make disconnect the stoker?

Brew-B-Q
10-30-2008, 03:51 PM
I don't know the rules exactly, but they had plenty of electricity in the restaurant. I think they are ok with stokers, since I own one too. Now pellet cookers, they might draw the line there...:lol:

ique
10-30-2008, 04:06 PM
AN equal balance of both

Crispy? Its a BBQ contest. Grilled chicken can be crispy, fried chicken is crispy... BBQ chicken? Not in my opinion.

ipls3355
10-30-2008, 07:35 PM
Next contest I am going to bring an Amish guy to cook with me. Think he is going to make disconnect the stoker?
Comin to Arthur?:wink:

Coz
10-30-2008, 09:18 PM
Next contest I am going to bring an Amish guy to cook with me. Think he is going to make disconnect the stoker?
Sled,I have several Amish friends who I do some business with.Their rules for our area are as long as you own the tools they can use them.They just cant own them.Now when I was in Pennsylvania for work several years ago the amish there had cell phones and radios in the buggys.When one of them was thinking about moving out here he was asking me a lot of questions and after I talked with my friends here he decided that it was too strict here.

barbefunkoramaque
10-30-2008, 09:33 PM
Listen to this guy about the oven. I always thought that your first brisket, packer or otherwise, should be roasted in the oven first. This way, you end up getting the texture right. THEN go on to your rub and stuff. With Chix, its crucial.

I'm afraid that's going to have to remain a secret. I spent three years and God knows how many thighs developing a process that took our chicken from our weakest category to first place, and I'm not ready to let it out.

One tip I can share for working up your own technique is that you can do your skin experiments in the oven. Obviously the flavor won't be there but when you are testing for tenderness the oven is very convenient and the temp control more accurate than most smokers. I used the oven to determine what cooking time and temps worked with my prep method by testing with basic S&P seasoning, removing a couple thighs at ten minute intervals until I zeroed in on the right combination. It took a lot of thighs, but none was wasted because I just chopped it all up for chicken salad.

Once you've done the bulk of the testing in the oven, you can move to the smoker for final tweaking.

barbefunkoramaque
10-30-2008, 09:36 PM
Crispy? Its a BBQ contest. Grilled chicken can be crispy, fried chicken is crispy... BBQ chicken? Not in my opinion.

Hee Hee Hee. One less guy to worry about then I guess. :-P Joke

Big Bobs is Crispy even after being dipped. As long AS its fresh.

Jacked UP BBQ
10-31-2008, 08:45 AM
Soft bite through skin is simple to accomplish, imo. I have been going for crispy. The only time we let it go with soft bite through skin, we got 1st place.

Sledneck
10-31-2008, 08:58 AM
Soft bite through skin is simple to accomplish, imo. I have been going for crispy. The only time we let it go with soft bite through skin, we got 1st place.so then why are you going for crispy?:confused:

Bbq Bubba
10-31-2008, 09:00 AM
Soft bite through skin is simple to accomplish, imo. I have been going for crispy. The only time we let it go with soft bite through skin, we got 1st place.

See post #21

Jacked UP BBQ
10-31-2008, 09:04 AM
I think bite through soft skin is disgusting. I like food with texture, not mush.

Podge
10-31-2008, 10:25 AM
I think bite through soft skin is disgusting. I like food with texture, not mush.

I've never noticed bite thru skin to be disgusting. it's certainly a lot nicer than rubbery skin.:icon_sick My chicken has always tanked with rubbery skin, and when i have bite thru, it scores well. bite thru is easy for me to achieve consistently, so i don't mess with it. Judges seem to like it so I cook for the Judges.. I'd personally love crispy skin. Probably one of my favorite foods !!.. but the margin for error (for me) to produce crispy skin at a contest is too much. So, i stick with bite-thru.

Alexa RnQ
10-31-2008, 10:41 AM
I had never thought of doing test runs in the oven!!! Durrrrrrrrrrr.
*thinks back to the three-digit dollarsworth of chicken we tested before the Jack and throws up a little*

The feedback you get from contests is your most valuable resource. I'm not going to throw away or argue with what the judges tell me.