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Jacked UP BBQ
10-15-2008, 11:38 AM
Can you pre trim chicken for a comp? I am sick of doing it on sight.

Podge
10-15-2008, 11:43 AM
yes you can !.. I pre-trim mine every chance i get.. it's a lot less to worry about on friday.

keep your chicken in a separate cooler too. Some meat inspectors like to see it that way.

smokincracker
10-15-2008, 11:43 AM
I think you can in KCBS
I know you can in FBA
Keep original package lables and do not put any seasoning or juice on it....

smknwhlswife
10-15-2008, 11:44 AM
Yes, you can trim meat before a contest. But make sure you have a receipt proving you bought it from a store. The reps may ask for it.

Podge
10-15-2008, 12:50 PM
Yes, you can trim meat before a contest. But make sure you have a receipt proving you bought it from a store. The reps may ask for it.

I've never had a rep ask me for a receipt, but it doesn't mean it won't happen sometime. but i wonder what the sense is of asking for it ? There's nothing in the KCBS rules that says you need proof of buying the meat in a store or something. Hopefully a rep. or board member can shed some light on this receipt issue.

The Pickled Pig
10-15-2008, 02:22 PM
There's nothing in the rules about keeping chicken in a separate cooler either.

Our meat check-in must be pretty lax in this region. I rarely have to take meat out of the cooler and occassionally, do not even have to open the cooler. I wish we could have teams check each other in. We would do a better job of it and I would have to suffer the nuisance of waiting around before prepping.

When possible, try and trim all of your meat at home. You get the benefit of full kitchen facilities for trimming and more socializing at the contest.

smknwhlswife
10-15-2008, 02:31 PM
I've never had a rep ask me for a receipt, but it doesn't mean it won't happen sometime. but i wonder what the sense is of asking for it ? There's nothing in the KCBS rules that says you need proof of buying the meat in a store or something. Hopefully a rep. or board member can shed some light on this receipt issue.

I had not either until this year, at the St. Joesph, Mo contest. We had trimmed our chicken & brisket before hand and had them in vac-u-seal bags & they asked us to prove that we had bought them from a store. Luckily we had our Sam's receipt.

You just never know what will happen from contest to contest.:roll:

Podge
10-15-2008, 02:33 PM
I had not either until this year, at the St. Joesph, Mo contest. We had trimmed our chicken & brisket before hand and had them in vac-u-seal bags & they asked us to prove that we had bought them from a store. Luckily we had our Sam's receipt.

You just never know what will happen from contest to contest.:roll:

Could you imagine if you were Amish, and had raised your own chickens, pigs, and cows, and provided your own meat ? You'd be screwed if the rep asked for a receipt !!:lol:

Podge
10-15-2008, 02:38 PM
There's nothing in the rules about keeping chicken in a separate cooler either.

you're right, there's not... but some meat inspectors like to say it's the local health dept.'s rule or something similar. I just pack it in a separate cooler to keep from having this argument.

Scottie
10-15-2008, 02:43 PM
I would contact the rep right away. If they were not available, I would have someone from the KCBS Board on the phone immediately if someone said I needed a receipt, original packaging or have to have my chicken in a separate cooler. As there is no rule for those and good luck enforcing it.

Just Pulin' Pork
10-15-2008, 02:59 PM
Could you imagine if you were Amish, and had raised your own chickens, pigs, and cows, and provided your own meat ? You'd be screwed if the rep asked for a receipt !!:lol:

Podge that is funny!

Coz
10-15-2008, 06:00 PM
Since when do you have to be Amish to raise your own critters?I help a friend raise steers,and I am finally getting to try some brisket from an animal that I have seen raised from a couple days old to slaughter.The steers are butchered with a USDA inspector present.We see a lot of these animals go to friends and coworkers and several have talked with me about cooking briskets for them.I usually do a deal where they bring me 2 and they get one back and I get the other for cooking 1 for them.My quesion is these animals are butchered with a USDA inspector present and there is nothing in the rules that says you cant use them why not do it?Looking like I will get 5-7 briskets for myself out of this deal next spring.Our animals are pen raised with no growth hormones.It will be an interesting experiment.

Sticks-n-chicks
10-15-2008, 06:22 PM
I have 4 animals...my wife calls them children but I am not sure...especiall the oldest he eats like a pig and would rather lay in mud than duds...animals...gees they might be cleaner

The Giggler
10-15-2008, 06:24 PM
We always pre-trim chicken. It is very convenient.

Usually, I do it while having a giant Jack and Diet. <grin> The dishwasher is real handy for the slimy, plastic cutting board.

I have been asked to open the ziplock bag so the rep can smell the chicken. Have never been asked to prove the purchase. What the fark is difference if it was bought? If somebody pre-seasoned, that would be obvious at the inspection. (Besides, chicken takes on marinade fairly quickly. Who would want to marinade or season longer than overnight at a contest?)

I buy chicken from a local farm. They don't have fancy labels. You pay by the pound. From now on, I'll keep the receipt just for insurance.

Black Cat BBQ
10-15-2008, 07:23 PM
After reading about pre trimming here before I figured I would do this for Dover. My brother convinced me to email and ask about this just incase... Fred's exact words were "Meat original package"

So if you trim do you stick the original package in the vacu seal/ziplock bag with it????

Bbq Bubba
10-15-2008, 07:46 PM
After reading about pre trimming here before I figured I would do this for Dover. My brother convinced me to email and ask about this just incase... Fred's exact words were "Meat original package"

So if you trim do you stick the original package in the vacu seal/ziplock bag with it????

Yes, that way theres no question about it!!

eagle697
10-15-2008, 08:36 PM
Never thought about getting a receipt for meat. All our comp meat is given to us by a sponsor who owns a meat market. May need to think about getting a receipt of some sort in case the reps need one. Good thread.

Timmy
10-15-2008, 09:18 PM
But again, whats the purpose of the receipt? As already stated its not in KCBS rulebook...why worry about such stuff? I must be thickheaded.

Alexa RnQ
10-15-2008, 09:41 PM
I think it boils down to the local HD wanting to see that the meat was bought somewhere that supposedly adheres to USDA standards.

After we were recently at a KCBS-sanctioned comp where the legality of pretrimming was questioned, I printed out a copy of the KCBS rules pertaining thereto and it now resides in our toolkit.

smknwhlswife
10-15-2008, 10:09 PM
I think it boils down to the local HD wanting to see that the meat was bought somewhere that supposedly adheres to USDA standards.


I think this was the case in St. Joseph, Mo. The HD was putting down the law pretty hard. They even came around with a Temp gun to make sure the meat was at the right temp. There was a team that pre-cooked a TON of meat for a party and were reheating it on-site at the contest. The HD made them throw all the meat away because the meat was not at the right temp in the coolers.

We have not been asked to provide a receipt anywhere else, but we try to have our receipts just in case.

Plowboy
10-15-2008, 10:13 PM
Since when do you have to be Amish to raise your own critters?I help a friend raise steers,and I am finally getting to try some brisket from an animal that I have seen raised from a couple days old to slaughter.The steers are butchered with a USDA inspector present.We see a lot of these animals go to friends and coworkers and several have talked with me about cooking briskets for them.I usually do a deal where they bring me 2 and they get one back and I get the other for cooking 1 for them.My quesion is these animals are butchered with a USDA inspector present and there is nothing in the rules that says you cant use them why not do it?Looking like I will get 5-7 briskets for myself out of this deal next spring.Our animals are pen raised with no growth hormones.It will be an interesting experiment.

Are there many Amish BBQ Teams? I suppose they don't use Guru's or pellet cookers.

CivilWarBBQ
10-15-2008, 11:03 PM
Never thought about getting a receipt for meat. All our comp meat is given to us by a sponsor who owns a meat market. May need to think about getting a receipt of some sort in case the reps need one. Good thread.

I wouldn't worry about it too much in these parts, Chris. I've been to every current KCBS contest in the state and have never been asked to show labels, plus quite a few in Alabama and Tennessee. Can't vouch for FBA or MBN events though.

Still, we usually bring beef and pork in the original cryo and keep a chicken label in the container with the trimmed thighs just in case. The way I look at it is that it's no big deal to do but it would sure be a hassle to have to find good meat in a hurry if the inspector DQ'ed your stuff at check in.

Podge
10-16-2008, 08:05 AM
Since when do you have to be Amish to raise your own critters?.

I didn't say a person HAD to be Amish to raise animals.

Jacked UP BBQ
10-16-2008, 08:17 AM
Can they make up their own rules at a sanctioned event if there is no rule clearly stating you need this? I would argue with them and make them prove to me that this was in fact a rule. If there is nothing stating in the rules they cannot not enforce is, in my opinion.

Dale P
10-16-2008, 08:42 AM
We had an inspector say to us that he was glad that our chicken was in a seperate cooler because "he didnt like the meats mixed together". We do it that way just to keep from having any hassle.

Brew-B-Q
10-16-2008, 08:50 AM
Can they make up their own rules at a sanctioned event if there is no rule clearly stating you need this? I would argue with them and make them prove to me that this was in fact a rule. If there is nothing stating in the rules they cannot not enforce is, in my opinion.

I agree - rules are there for a reason. So if I was asked for a receipt and display a photocopied, 1 year old receipt for a case of brisket, case of ribs, etc....will that suffice for these overzealous inspectors?

As for the separate cooler business....perhaps if I was just throwing all of my meat, unwrapped, in a cooler it would be worth doing. But honestly, who doesn't wrap/bag their meat well enough to prevent contamination?

Podge
10-16-2008, 08:58 AM
I agree - rules are there for a reason. So if I was asked for a receipt and display a photocopied, 1 year old receipt for a case of brisket, case of ribs, etc....will that suffice for these overzealous inspectors?

As for the separate cooler business....perhaps if I was just throwing all of my meat, unwrapped, in a cooler it would be worth doing. But honestly, who doesn't wrap/bag their meat well enough to prevent contamination?

what gets me is that RAW meat doesn't contaminate RAW meat. Even if and when it does, its no more contaminated than the meat that did the contaminating, and it'll all get cooked anyway. If some chicken has salmonella on it, what keeps it from contaminating the rest of the chicken in the bag that doesn't ? (i'm not arguing with you, I totally agree, I'm just throwing another thought in there)

Buster Dog BBQ
10-16-2008, 09:00 AM
So I guess you just have to keep the receipt in your trailer if you buy meat by the case?

Jacked UP BBQ
10-16-2008, 09:05 AM
I buy my chicken and ribs from a restaurant and he gives it to me in a plastic bag, no reciept, I give him green and a hand shake and I walk. I bring it home and kryovac. If they dq my meat for that, they should give meat out at comps.

goodsmokebbq
10-16-2008, 09:15 AM
what gets me is that RAW meat doesn't contaminate RAW meat. Even if and when it does, its no more contaminated than the meat that did the contaminating, and it'll all get cooked anyway. If some chicken has salmonella on it, what keeps it from contaminating the rest of the chicken in the bag that doesn't ? (i'm not arguing with you, I totally agree, I'm just throwing another thought in there)


Great point! That is exactly what I have been saying. How is this an issue?

I should probably take my beers out of that cooler though ;-)

Butt-A-Bing!
10-16-2008, 09:43 AM
Hello all! 1st post here, new member. My wife Valerie just e-mailed Fred Bohn From Dover Downs explaining the trimmed meat situation and how it is within the KCBS rules and he reponded that he misunderstood, and that we are right.

Chris

Jacked UP BBQ
10-16-2008, 10:11 AM
Hello all! 1st post here, new member. My wife Valerie just e-mailed Fred Bohn From Dover Downs explaining the trimmed meat situation and how it is within the KCBS rules and he reponded that he misunderstood, and that we are right.

Chris


hey chris thanks for the info, see you again this week. matt

GratefulSmoker
10-16-2008, 10:23 AM
So, do most teams do all of there trimming prior to the event? Or some at home and some at the event? We are competing in our first KCBS event in a couple of weeks and have heard conflicting comments.

Jacked UP BBQ
10-16-2008, 10:32 AM
So, do most teams do all of there trimming prior to the event? Or some at home and some at the event? We are competing in our first KCBS event in a couple of weeks and have heard conflicting comments.


we do as much as we can prior, so we can drink more.:lol:

GratefulSmoker
10-16-2008, 10:34 AM
we do as much as we can prior, so we can drink more.:lol:

That's the reason I was asking, you read my mind!:razz:

The Pickled Pig
10-16-2008, 11:35 AM
what gets me is that RAW meat doesn't contaminate RAW meat. Even if and when it does, its no more contaminated than the meat that did the contaminating, and it'll all get cooked anyway. If some chicken has salmonella on it, what keeps it from contaminating the rest of the chicken in the bag that doesn't ? (i'm not arguing with you, I totally agree, I'm just throwing another thought in there)


Cooking temps are different for beef and chicken (http://www.fightbac.org/content/view/93/2/). Let's say my raw beef roast comes into contact with raw chicken and I then cook it to 145F internal, the ickies from the chickies may not be killed and I could get sick.

Jacked UP BBQ
10-16-2008, 11:48 AM
Cooking temps are different for beef and chicken (http://www.fightbac.org/content/view/93/2/). Let's say my raw beef roast comes into contact with raw chicken and I then cook it to 145F internal, the ickies from the chickies may not be killed and I could get sick.

you are 100% correct but I think they are speaking about brisket which is cooked way above 165 which is the temp where all bacteria dies.

If you are mixing chicken and a porterhouse that you are going to serve medium rare, than we have a problem!

Scottie
10-16-2008, 12:09 PM
Cooking temps are different for beef and chicken (http://www.fightbac.org/content/view/93/2/). Let's say my raw beef roast comes into contact with raw chicken and I then cook it to 145F internal, the ickies from the chickies may not be killed and I could get sick.


Thinking outloud... If you cook to internal of 145... How are the ickies inside of the meat? Wouldn't they be on the outside, that is above 145?

I guess this is more of a question for me too...

LindaM
10-16-2008, 12:39 PM
I've never had a rep ask me for a receipt, but it doesn't mean it won't happen sometime. but i wonder what the sense is of asking for it ? There's nothing in the KCBS rules that says you need proof of buying the meat in a store or something. Hopefully a rep. or board member can shed some light on this receipt issue.

The only time a rep might ask for the receipt would be for Pork since it must be 5lbs. if it seems small. Other than that I see no reason anyone would ask.

Although it is not manditory you keep chicken seperate it is good practice. Any of us in the food industry know how quickly chicken can contaminate. Personally I like to see seperate cutting boards as well.

Black Cat BBQ
10-16-2008, 01:03 PM
Hello all! 1st post here, new member. My wife Valerie just e-mailed Fred Bohn From Dover Downs explaining the trimmed meat situation and how it is within the KCBS rules and he reponded that he misunderstood, and that we are right.

Chris

So it is OK to pretrim for Dover? Do we bring the receipt or the container that the meat came in as proof? Or does it not really matter now? Sorry lots of questions... This is our 2nd comp and the last thing I want to have to do is go find some meat in Delaware. :smile:

When I emailed Fred I didnt go into a lot of detail so thanks to Valerie for being persistant!!

Black Cat BBQ
10-16-2008, 01:05 PM
Hello all! 1st post here, new member. My wife Valerie just e-mailed Fred Bohn From Dover Downs explaining the trimmed meat situation and how it is within the KCBS rules and he reponded that he misunderstood, and that we are right.

Chris

ps What spot are you all in?

The Pickled Pig
10-16-2008, 01:23 PM
Thinking outloud... If you cook to internal of 145... How are the ickies inside of the meat? Wouldn't they be on the outside, that is above 145?

I guess this is more of a question for me too...


If you cook at low enough temps, the temperature variation between internal and external may not be enough to kill the bacteria.

Scottie
10-16-2008, 01:56 PM
You're right Paul. I was thinking more of searing... As the outside would be hotter than the internal...

Butt-A-Bing!
10-16-2008, 02:26 PM
So it is OK to pretrim for Dover? Do we bring the receipt or the container that the meat came in as proof? Or does it not really matter now? Sorry lots of questions... This is our 2nd comp and the last thing I want to have to do is go find some meat in Delaware. :smile:

When I emailed Fred I didnt go into a lot of detail so thanks to Valerie for being persistant!!


We have done 6 comps this year and pre trimmed all. We were never asked for a receipt or packaging. If you are still concerned clip off all the labels (weight.. price.. date..) and stick em in the ziplock. We are in 51, hopefully early, but I always say that! Stop by and say hello.

Chris

Sledneck
10-19-2008, 05:52 AM
Kcbs Meat inspection (http://kcbs.us/pdf/KCBSMeatInspectionGuide08.pdf)

Chipper
10-19-2008, 07:06 AM
The Amish don't compete, but they do make a fine line of cookers in Lancaster, PA called Meadow Creek. The company runs a BBQ restaurant as well. I have been there and was impressed. If any of you have been to the event in New Holland you know them.

Sledneck
10-19-2008, 07:12 AM
The Amish don't compete, but they do make a fine line of cookers in Lancaster, PA called Meadow Creek. The company runs a BBQ restaurant as well. I have been there and was impressed. If any of you have been to the event in New Holland you know them.I do believe that they are Mennonite's and not Amish

Chipper
10-19-2008, 11:36 AM
Trust me, they are Amish. In my job I work in Lancaster and deal with all the sects and they, at Meadow Creek are Amish. Most, but not all Mennonite, are clean shaven and if they use carriages, they are black. The Amish always have beards (after they get married) and use gray carriages.

Double D's BBQ
10-19-2008, 02:34 PM
I'm not an expert by any means in the Amish religion but I don't think cell phones are allowed to be used by the Amish and I know that Melvin uses one.

Chipper
10-19-2008, 06:01 PM
If they discuss it with the church leaders and they feel it's necessary to run the business, they are allowed not only cell phones, but fax machines, phones, etc. Trust me, I work with these folks every day.