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View Full Version : Need opinions, please.


jbrink01
10-14-2008, 11:43 AM
Take a look at the below. Other than cleaning off the little pieces, which we did, why would this get bad appearance scores?

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
10-14-2008, 11:47 AM
Could you post a larger picture?

BobBrisket
10-14-2008, 12:01 PM
Maybe cause the judges were blind!:wink:

That looks fantastic to me. I have no idea why it would get a low score. I guess after seeing so many turns in they must get really picky about even the littlest of things.

Bigmista
10-14-2008, 12:06 PM
How thick were the slices?

BobBrisket
10-14-2008, 12:19 PM
It may also be possible that it didn't look that way when they got it. Maybe it got shaken up or something.

Do judges take mishandling into consideration when judging appearance.

Pitbull
10-14-2008, 12:20 PM
The meat and presentation looks good to me except the meat looks kind of shiney :?:. I don't know if you basted with something or it's the picture. If it's the picture I have no clue why it would score low.

MrsBigBarry
10-14-2008, 12:23 PM
Lack of chop/burnt ends?

jbrink01
10-14-2008, 12:49 PM
How thick were the slices?

1/4" (#2 Pencil)

jbrink01
10-14-2008, 12:49 PM
Could you post a larger picture?

Not easily.

BurntFinger_Jason
10-14-2008, 12:53 PM
They look kind of stringy on the left side. Did you forget to cut against the grain?

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
10-14-2008, 01:26 PM
I may be off base, but I'm not seeing much, if any, bark on top? Was it trimmed off? That makes it look unusual, somewhat like oven roasted brisket as far as I can see from the small picture.

The Pickled Pig
10-14-2008, 01:32 PM
They look kind of stringy on the left side. Did you forget to cut against the grain?

It's hard to see in such a small pic but it does appear to me that the slices were not made against the grain.

Cabntmkr1
10-14-2008, 01:41 PM
My guess is it's not across the grain.The left end of the pieces appear to follow the grain.Aside from that, it looks great to me.

jbrink01
10-14-2008, 02:07 PM
They look kind of stringy on the left side. Did you forget to cut against the grain?

Absolutely not!

Dale P
10-14-2008, 02:14 PM
looks like it was cut with the grain but its hard to tell from that pic. it does appear to be stringy. Just hard to tell.

QDoc
10-14-2008, 02:30 PM
Difficult to evaluate the photo. The front two slices look strange. There is a dark area that has me stumped. Looks like pooled injection. Also I agree with othe remarks. It looks like it was not cut across grain. Otherwise it looks good but I don't care for shine on "cut" meat surfaces. Moist yes but shiney?

Podge
10-14-2008, 03:30 PM
it looks like a 9 to me.. 8 at the worst.. but i think this looks good !

(btw, i know what a shook brisket box looks like and it's not pretty !!)

butts a fire
10-14-2008, 04:52 PM
I wish I could shed some light on why it would score low it looks better than any box that I have turned in. I would give it an 8 maybe 9 based on the picture. What scores did it get?

jbrink01
10-14-2008, 05:22 PM
787655

hillbillie
10-14-2008, 05:39 PM
Looks like it could be the point insted off the flat. That could be the stringy look. As for the scores when it got to the judges the slises could have slid so they were not evenly spaced apart. From the pic I would give it an 8.

Podge
10-14-2008, 05:52 PM
787655

you got robbed

Bentley
10-14-2008, 06:29 PM
I sometimes wonder...To me it is an above average box; I donít know how you could give it below a 7. I think I would have given it an 8. Sure would like to know the reason the 1 judge gave it a 6 and the 2 others gave it 5's. I would be scratching my head...Please judge 1&2, tell me what is there about this box that makes it below average?

Since KCBS either feels they canít or chooses not to hold CBJís accountable, maybe it should be the promoters responsibility? They have the ultimate responsibility of providing judges, whether it is a KCBS contest or not? Am I correct in assuming you can have a KCBS sanctioned contest, and there is nothing in the KCBS guidelines that states that 1 judge has to be a CBJ?

jbrink01
10-14-2008, 07:36 PM
This was off the flat, not the point. It was a sanctioned contest. I sorta feel i got robbed all around, but that would sound like sour grapes.............

Plowboy
10-14-2008, 07:42 PM
I don't see 5's and 6's at all. I'd have to see it in person to give 7-9.

jbrink01
10-14-2008, 07:46 PM
I think it was worthy of 8's, but what do I know.

BRBBQ
10-14-2008, 07:54 PM
I'm with most people on the grain thing looks funky, but no 5's, no 6's and no 7's. But what do I know, I'm only a judge! It's not me you have to worry about, it's the other guy!

jbrink01
10-14-2008, 08:08 PM
Now you guys got me thinking I cut it wrong, but I trim and cut 24 briskets a week????? I dunno.

CivilWarBBQ
10-14-2008, 08:34 PM
Lack of chop/burnt ends?

Boy I hope not. Judges are to score what is in the box, NOT what isn't.

Seems like the box just hit a bad table. We turned in brisket last weekend that was virtually identical to the 2nd place entry at out last contest. This time out the judges handed out 7s instead of 9s. :shock: All you can do is shake your head and look toward the next show.

Big George's BBQ
10-14-2008, 08:46 PM
Meat looks good and moist. From the picture nice smoke ring. The only thing I can see wrong is that the meat is not centered in the box. It is possible that the box was mishandeled on the way to or after the judges received it

beam boys bbq
10-14-2008, 09:35 PM
welcome to columbia Mo the hardest place to compeat in my book

york

BRBBQ
10-14-2008, 10:19 PM
columbia Mo is tuff, dang it:!: I was going to judge there. With nearly 50 teams I new it would be good. I never rate any score by burnt ends being in the box:!:

PatioDaddio
10-14-2008, 10:23 PM
I may be off base, but I'm not seeing much, if any, bark on top? Was it trimmed off? That makes it look unusual, somewhat like oven roasted brisket as far as I can see from the small picture.I agree. Purely by appearance it looks like the bark is missing.

John

Alexa RnQ
10-14-2008, 10:29 PM
*looks at brisket*

*shakes head sadly*

*scratches Columbia off next year's proposed schedule*

Rookie'48
10-14-2008, 11:08 PM
Any body going to be at the fountains blaze off this wekend:?:

If you're going there, you might as well swing on out to Lawrance for the Bash :biggrin:.

KC_Bobby
10-14-2008, 11:22 PM
Out of curiosity ... do you know how many judges were CBJs ... non first time CBJs?

TOPS BBQ
10-15-2008, 12:28 AM
The scores sucked the big one! All I saw was a top notch turn-in and that's with the ability to go back and see it again. The post about missing burnt ends shouldn't be a factor. What you turned in was right on and the judges were off base.

Good luck at the next one.

BurntFinger_Jason
10-15-2008, 06:44 AM
Any body going to be at the fountains blaze off this wekend:?:

Burnt Finger BBQ will be there. Swing by and enjoy a beer with us!!!! :-D

rbinms33
10-15-2008, 09:44 AM
To me, it seems the 4th, 5th and 6th slices look better. The slicing looks rough on the 1st and 2nd piece and maybe the middle of the 3rd one. That may be the way the picture was taken though. I'd have to see it in person. Also, there is some sauce/injection marks on the bottom right of the first slice. These are the only "off" things that catch my eye.

On the positive side, garnish is not overbearing, slices are uniform, thickness of the slices looks ok and it doesn't look dried out.

On the burnt end question, no, you don't have to put burnt ends in the box. I would not judge down because of that and shame on a judge that would.

On the handling question, there's a line of sauce on the 2nd and 3rd piece. Seeing that and the positioning of the first two slices tells me that the first two slices slid down during handling of the box. It happens, and no I wouldn't judge you down because of that.

There's no reason for a 5 on that box, much less 2 of them. A 6 maybe, if you got a really picky judge but I'd give it a 7 or 8 based on seeing it in person.

Scottie
10-15-2008, 02:09 PM
Now you guys got me thinking I cut it wrong, but I trim and cut 24 briskets a week????? I dunno.


My guess is you were robbed. Were there new judges or inexperienced judges at the contest?

As for the grain. I often get briskets where the grain is either really tight or really loose, like how yours look. My brisket from last weekend in Arthur< Illinois was like that. One end of the flat was grainy and the other end was very tight. I went right in the middle and I guess I picked it right. They rewarded me with 1st place.

My personal taste is for tight grain. My sister thinks that a loose grain brisket looks the best. She loses and I generally win though... As I get the final vote on taste.

But I would not be too disappointed. Next time out could be all 9's!!!

jbrink01
10-15-2008, 03:29 PM
*looks at brisket*

*shakes head sadly*

*scratches Columbia off next year's proposed schedule*


Sing it Sister!

jbrink01
10-15-2008, 03:31 PM
My guess is you were robbed. Were there new judges or inexperienced judges at the contest?

As for the grain. I often get briskets where the grain is either really tight or really loose, like how yours look. My brisket from last weekend in Arthur< Illinois was like that. One end of the flat was grainy and the other end was very tight. I went right in the middle and I guess I picked it right. They rewarded me with 1st place.

My personal taste is for tight grain. My sister thinks that a loose grain brisket looks the best. She loses and I generally win though... As I get the final vote on taste.

But I would not be too disappointed. Next time out could be all 9's!!!

There were both new judges, and non KCBS judges!

I cooked 2, and the tighter of the 2 didn't taste as good as the one that used Plowboys Dirt (oops, gave that away). The better tasting one was the looser one, but i figured, "what can it hurt"?? Now I know.

KC_Bobby
10-15-2008, 03:39 PM
Another question of curiousity

How did you find out that the two were new non-CBJ judges?

Jeff_in_KC
10-15-2008, 06:06 PM
Wow, that box should not have received under a 7 for appearance and maybe not under an 8 if I could see a better photo. I agree with Scottie... robbed!

Nitrofly
10-15-2008, 08:47 PM
you got robbed

By the picture posted I would only give it a 7 for appearance

Alexa RnQ
10-15-2008, 10:00 PM
By the picture posted I would only give it a 7 for appearance
So, could you elucidate a bit?
What could be improved to make that an 8 or 9?
Any guesses as to where the 6 and 5s might have come from?

jbrink01
10-15-2008, 10:51 PM
Another question of curiousity

How did you find out that the two were new non-CBJ judges?

A judge, wearing a Columbia City Council polo shirt came by after turn in's. I gave him some sausage samples. He told me that they actually had 5 non cbj's they "pulled off the street".

Fark Columbia!

The Pickled Pig
10-15-2008, 11:25 PM
So, could you elucidate a bit?
What could be improved to make that an 8 or 9?
Any guesses as to where the 6 and 5s might have come from?

5 out of 6 judges gave it a 7 or less. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as a bad table. It's more probable that the entry was not as visually appealing as it needed to be. Most of our calls come when we score a 6 judge average of 8+ on appearance. We occasionally hit with appearance scores of 7.5+ but never below 7.5. I probably pay too much attention to the appearance scores but I still analyze my entry pictures closely looking for ways to improve.

The photo provided is small and was taken with a diagonal viewpoint so it's especially hard to analyze. Pictures can certainly be deceiving and I've certainly had the benefit to study the picture. That being said, here are some opinions based soley on the picture:

I like the shine...makes the meat look moist and inviting.
I like the smoke ring.
The first and second slice have dark blotches in the same location...looks like injection stains.
The grain on the left is in a chevron pattern...looks like it was sliced with the grain. I looked at pics of our 20+ past entries and have yet to see a grain pattern like that. Maybe this was a curvy grain?
It appears that the layout is not centered (more green on right).
It appears that the slices were not layed out evenly vertically.
The "loose" grain on the top left region appears to be overcooked.
The lower right corner of the first slice appears to have some of the point attached.
I realize this is hyper-critical but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss such consistent scores.