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Jacked UP BBQ
07-31-2008, 10:37 AM
I was always told that you cannot lay your meat anyway that could indentify it is your teams turn in. Yet I look at pictures of turn ins and see all different designs with pork and brisket. We always turned in plain fanned out brisket and pork layered if sliced and piled if pulled. I notice that our presentation scores are sometimes lower and always thought to myself, what the hell are we doing wrong? (yes our parsley is green upright and our greens are nice)

Please someone school me on this because if I am allowed to get a little more creative with my presentations, we would do a hell of a lot better as a team.

If you would be willing to show the picture of a first place pork turn in that would be great! Not looking to steal ideas, just looking to learn here.

Thanks everyone, you have already taught me a lot!

Jacked UP BBQ
07-31-2008, 10:42 AM
Moderator, please move this to comp bbq

KC_Bobby
07-31-2008, 11:15 AM
Let's see some of your turn in pics, that could help us try to help you.

Jacked UP BBQ
07-31-2008, 11:29 AM
Please rip me apart I can Take it!

BBQ Grail
07-31-2008, 11:35 AM
Okay, I'm not a comp guy nor a judge, so take my comments with a grain of salt. I'm looking at this just from a guy who cooks and likes good presentation.

My first thought was the greens had no thought in their placement. They look as though they were just stuffed into any nook or cranny. The greens cover the meat.

The brisket looks to big for the box.

Again, just comments from a guy who knows nothing.

Jacked UP BBQ
07-31-2008, 11:37 AM
I agree! I think the brisket would have fit if we didn't angle it.

U2CANQUE
07-31-2008, 11:38 AM
Brisket: Your garnish is getting my focus first thing, not the meat itself. Think of garnish as a condiment...something to accent the primary subject, not overpower it.

Pork: It seems a bit "busy" a lot going on in one little space. Like the accenting the meat/lettuce with parsley, but, again, covering up the meat...could work on making separate piles neater...you show off the bark on one section, but, the rest just seems to be thrown in....

Hope that is some help

butts a fire
07-31-2008, 12:26 PM
I think the brisket would look much better if it were in the box straight instead of angled due to the size of the slices. I turned in a box similar to yours before and the appearance scores definitely suffered compared to when I turn it in going straight.

For the Pork as you said in the title the garnish is a mess. What I have been working on lately is turning in large chunks or pulled that display the Bark well along with a sliced money muscle. I haven't got it down pat yet though.

KC_Bobby
07-31-2008, 12:48 PM
I'll start with the pork ... that box is screaming help me. My eyes don't know where to go or what to focus on. Do you have a reason for 5 piles? If so, let us know. The look is not balanced and the greens are distracting. I'd have a hard time giving that anything higher then a 6 - simply because the way the meat is presented just looks average - at best.

The brisket looks better, but the front piece has some bark that fell off and is on the side of the slice and you can see where the fat is connected to the meat at the bottom - looks like a big scar. And I see a lot of garnish in front of the front piece, I can't see all the meat. I wanna see meat. I'd probably give that a 7, looks a little better then average to me.

Alexa RnQ
07-31-2008, 12:49 PM
At least in this area, judges tend to dislike brisket slices on the diagonal. They also are less than enthusiastic about brisket slices that are too big for the box.

There are a lot of issues going on with your garnish. It's lopping over the sides of the box in some spots, and nearly invisible at other edges. Parsley is placed as if you'd just ripped a wad off the bunch, there are parts flopping. The inflorescences should be even, and should never hide meat.

Scottie
07-31-2008, 12:52 PM
The brisket looks like you were slicing it with the grain as well... You will get more tender slices, if you cut it across the grain...

The Pickled Pig
07-31-2008, 12:57 PM
Both entries would look better without parlsey. I think the first thing you can do to improve is probably just use lettuce and lay your entry neatly and symmetrically on top of it. Don't do anything too fancy until you get the basics the down. Present your dishes in a visually horizontal way. Don't put things in the box at a diagonal. Try and keep the green border around your entry even around the box.

Slices 1 and 2 on your brisket have obvious knife marks and it appears as though you didn't separate the point from the flat on the first slice...looks nasty. Also, try and even your slice thickness out a bit. Make sure no lettuce goes over the bottom lip of the clamshell.

Your pork is a visual disaster. It looks more like a salad than a pork entry. If you're going with pulled pork, consider pulling 10-12 finger sized, uniform pieces. Try and make sure each piece has bark on it and it very tender. Lay the pieces in the center of the box in a square (with even green borders), bark side up. Also, your pork would look a lot better if presented with sauce so consider that.

But other than those few minor things everything looks great.:-P

Jacked UP BBQ
07-31-2008, 01:00 PM
We always cut agaist the grain, that was acutally off of the flat. I appreciate all of the input. I am glad you are pointing everything out, there is a lot to this MESS!

The Pickled Pig
07-31-2008, 01:09 PM
This was a first place brisket out of 66 teams:

http://www.thepickledpig.com/ppcontestresults/2008Raytown/4.jpg


This was a first place pork out of 26 teams:

http://www.thepickledpig.com/ppcontestresults/2008lincoln/~pork.jpg

The Pickled Pig
07-31-2008, 01:13 PM
The inflorescences should be even, and should never hide meat.


I had to look that one up:

Pronunciation: \ˌin-flə-ˈre-sən(t)s\
1 a: the mode of development and arrangement of flowers on an axis b: a floral axis with its appendages; also : a flower cluster


I'm not sure I'll ever have a conversation outside of BBQ presentation where I can use that word but I'm going to try.

Alexa RnQ
07-31-2008, 01:47 PM
I had to look that one up:

Pronunciation: \ˌin-flə-ˈre-sən(t)s\
1 a: the mode of development and arrangement of flowers on an axis b: a floral axis with its appendages; also : a flower cluster


I'm not sure I'll ever have a conversation outside of BBQ presentation where I can use that word but I'm going to try.
LMAO!!! Busted!

I spent a decade as a consulting rosarian for the American Rose Society, and stuff like that sometimes slips out. :icon_blush:

Professor Salt
07-31-2008, 01:58 PM
Just curious, do you remember how much that brisket weighed before cooking? It looks mighty wide.

Jacked UP BBQ
07-31-2008, 02:19 PM
It Was 14.5 Pounds. That Cut Is From The Flat.

KC_Bobby
07-31-2008, 02:23 PM
Cut from the flat ... as in you only purchased a flat or you took it from the flat of a packer? Sometimes store boughten flats have some point on them.

Divemaster
07-31-2008, 02:35 PM
Follow what has been said and you'll do better.

I can actually understand and see the logic in you pork... I just doesn't work. What I found was that during practice I take a picture of the entry. That way, when I'm less tired, I can see what the judges are going to see.

Good Luck!!!!

I had to look that one up:

Pronunciation: \ˌin-flə-ˈre-sən(t)s\
1 a: the mode of development and arrangement of flowers on an axis b: a floral axis with its appendages; also : a flower cluster


I'm not sure I'll ever have a conversation outside of BBQ presentation where I can use that word but I'm going to try.


All I can say is I don't know that I'll EVER use it!

sampson
07-31-2008, 04:50 PM
All good advice given here... Those pics by the PickledPig are priceless, if you can make a box look like that you're talking 8-9's all the time...

smokincracker
08-01-2008, 01:32 AM
This was a first place brisket out of 66 teams:

http://www.thepickledpig.com/ppcontestresults/2008Raytown/4.jpg


This was a first place pork out of 26 teams:

http://www.thepickledpig.com/ppcontestresults/2008lincoln/~pork.jpg



Paul

Those are the best boxes I've ever seen posted on-line.
You are very generous to post them...
Very good work...
I give you a Spot On Score

Jimmy

afreemaniii
08-01-2008, 01:38 AM
Question for you about the pork. Have you sliced the money muscle at the top of the box and pull some larger chunks from the rest of the shoulder? This looks amazing.



This was a first place pork out of 26 teams:

http://www.thepickledpig.com/ppcontestresults/2008lincoln/~pork.jpg

Jacked UP BBQ
08-01-2008, 07:48 AM
I would just like to thank everyone for their input. Thanks for the pics paul!

TysDad
08-01-2008, 09:37 AM
Paul,
What would you do differently about your award winning turn-in boxes? What don't you like about those amazingly beautiful pieces of art? It seems like the competitors who see stuff normal folks don't see seem to have the best looking boxes posted here. But does it drive you totally crazy? Do you need therapy after every competition?

.

rj scott
08-01-2008, 09:45 AM
Gentlemen,
I am new to this forum but I have been competing on and off for about 12 years or so with a 10-year break recently. I am back into now and I will have a lot of questions to pose.
I guess I'll start with this...
Just what do judges want to see in ribs? A little bone exposed? A lot of bone exposed? No bone exposed?
I understand that you don't want to turn in ribs like most people want them in the backyard...with the bones sliding out. But just how tender do you shoot for? Should there be a little bit of a tug or no tug when you bite into them?
When do most of you pull them off the smoker? Do you wrap, do you try to finish early and hold them...if so how early and for how long?

What I've been reading in this forum since I discovered it is unbelievable!! You guys sure know what you're talking about. I can't wait to learn from you all.

Thanks in advance...Curious RJ

Divemaster
08-01-2008, 09:52 AM
Hey Rj! Welcome to our little home....

This thread may answer a number of your questions...

Judging: Among The Brethren. (http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14263)

Also, I don't recall seeing you introduce yourself on Cattle Call so please swing on over there so we can all say welcome..

The Pickled Pig
08-01-2008, 10:34 AM
Have you sliced the money muscle at the top of the box and pull some larger chunks from the rest of the shoulder?


Yes.

The Pickled Pig
08-01-2008, 10:56 AM
Paul,
What would you do differently about your award winning turn-in boxes? What don't you like about those amazingly beautiful pieces of art?


Considering these two entries won, I wouldn't change much. But, if you look closely, there are still flaws with each.

On the pork, I would have preferred all of the chunks to be facing bark side up and several of the chunds have shaggy looking strands of meat attached. The pork slices aren't perfectly fanned out and it looks like the third slice from the right has a little extra chunk on it.

On the brisket, the slices are a tad too wide for me and they are not fanned out perfectly. The burnt ends are not uniform. And there's a little sauce that pooled under the right side of the front slice.

The parsley in both boxes is a little uneven. And, the putting green edges in the pork box looks like it has some gaps.

No matter how well you prepare for turn-in times, you still only have a few minutes to actually get the meat in the box and we are almost always rushed. So I'm not sure you could ever turn-in a "perfect" box.

Keep in mind, taste points are worth 4 times as much as appearance and tenderness is worth twice as much as appearance. I have lots of pics of great looking entries with high appearance scores that didn't win squat. I would trade appearance points for taste points any day.

Scottie
08-01-2008, 11:11 AM
I've lost a lot of contests/categories because of 1 or 2 appearance points... They are points you do not want to give away...

Solidkick
08-01-2008, 02:34 PM
I've lost a lot of contests/categories because of 1 or 2 appearance points... They are points you do not want to give away...

Amen to that brother! Have your vision in your head, take your time and put it together right, stand back and take a look before you close the lid.
And don't be late!

Pigs on The Run
08-01-2008, 07:05 PM
Keep in mind, taste points are worth 4 times as much as appearance and tenderness is worth twice as much as appearance. I have lots of pics of great looking entries with high appearance scores that didn't win squat. I would trade appearance points for taste points any day.[/quote]
All great advice. I got a 169 with 3 6s in appeareance last contest. Keep it simple and focus on taste and tenderness.
live ,love ,laugh and bbq
http://www.pigsonttherun.com (http://www.pigsonttherun.com/)

smoke showin'
08-01-2008, 08:33 PM
down here we don't use garnish ,but I have won first but cutting the brisket from the corner back a making like a wedge so they can see it all came from the same brisket. try notching the corner before it is cooked so you know where to start cutting after it is cooked

smoke showin'
08-02-2008, 02:41 PM
also on the pork toss in sauce and sprinkle with a little rub ground in a spice grinder so it does not look to obvious but adds great flavor