PDA

View Full Version : Score these two pork boxes for appearance


CivilWarBBQ
07-22-2008, 03:23 PM
OK, here's the experiment. Below are a couple pork boxes we turned in at past events. Please score each for appearance and also note if you are a CBJ. I'll reveal the marks each received later.

BOX A
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/673/porkwinchester07vj1.jpg


BOX B
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2711/porkkennesaw07gw0.jpg

Sledneck
07-22-2008, 03:31 PM
Box A -7
Box B -9

CBJ

KC_Bobby
07-22-2008, 03:41 PM
A - 7 (I believe that's either french parsley or cilantro and that's legal - if not the table capt would let us know after we put down our scores)
B - 8

CBJ

BBQchef33
07-22-2008, 04:04 PM
A - 7 Looks pale and a little dry.. not very enticing
B - 8 I may have given it a 9 in real life if it had the sheen of juiciness.

CBJ

Brew-B-Q
07-22-2008, 04:04 PM
I'm not a CBJ. I want to eat box A more, even though box B looks like the more "traditional" entry. Personally, I'd give them both an 8, which probably doesn't help your test.

Black Cat BBQ
07-22-2008, 04:05 PM
I think the meat looks great in both boxes but have never judged and am entering my first contest this weekend so I have a question, if its ok to ask it here......I keep seeing the pulled pork in big hunks, which looks very appealing. Its kinda making me hungry right now....I use the bear paws to tear mine and it shreds it. Is shredding less exceptable than the hunks? Sorry if this is off topic.

BBQ_Mayor
07-22-2008, 04:05 PM
A- 8. Looks just a bit dry but could be the picture. The cilantro looks funny all bunched around but I'm not judging that.

B- 9. Looks good and moist. Nice color.

CBJ

Harbormaster
07-22-2008, 04:06 PM
Box A - 7
Box B - 8, almost gave it a 9

Not a CBJ, but did not study the pics to pick them apart either.

Sledneck
07-22-2008, 04:07 PM
I think the meat looks great in both boxes but have never judged and am entering my first contest this weekend so I have a question, if its ok to ask it here......I keep seeing the pulled pork in big hunks, which looks very appealing. Its kinda making me hungry right now....I use the bear paws to tear mine and it shreds it. Is shredding less exceptable than the hunks? Sorry if this is off topic.Great question. I personally do chunks. I do not shred. To me the more bark the better

MilitantSquatter
07-22-2008, 04:09 PM
Box A : 6-7
Box B : 7-8

CBJ

beam boys bbq
07-22-2008, 04:14 PM
A - 7 Looks pale and a little dry.. not very enticing
B - 8 I may have given it a 9 in real life if it had the sheen of juiciness.

CBJ


i am with phill on this

BBQchef33
07-22-2008, 04:15 PM
This thread gave me a hankering for pulled pork sammich..


sucks for me...


arghhhhhhhhhhh.

Sledneck
07-22-2008, 04:18 PM
Box A : 6-7
Box B : 7-8

CBJ
what the hell is this 6-7 7-8 give it a solid score dammit

smokincracker
07-22-2008, 04:20 PM
what the hell is this 6-7 7-8 give it a solid score dammit

A-7
B-8

MilitantSquatter
07-22-2008, 04:22 PM
what the hell is this 6-7 7-8 give it a solid score dammit

you got me...

box a :6
box b: 7

Sledneck
07-22-2008, 04:22 PM
This thread gave me a hankering for pulled pork sammich..


sucks for me...


arghhhhhhhhhhh.
Iam biting my tongue right now and it is starting to bleed

Sledneck
07-22-2008, 04:23 PM
you got me...

box a :6
box b: 7thank you, now i can sleep better tonight:tongue:

QDoc
07-22-2008, 04:31 PM
A= 6
B=8

Cbj

butts a fire
07-22-2008, 04:49 PM
I like the experiment, I have not read any replies and I am a CBJ.

Box A: I would give an 8 I think the pork looks good But I think the Parsley is distracting and a bit of a mess or to me it would be a 9.

Box B: I would give an 8.5 I am in between an 8 and 9 in person at the judging table I could go either way I really like the look of the pork and if the Parsley weren't sticking out of the box and distracting me from the meat I would give it a 9 for sure.

Now to read the rest of the comments

Plowboy
07-22-2008, 04:58 PM
A: 7
B: 6

Box A probably scored better in the other two areas: Taste & Tenderness. The chucks are bigger and not as stringy. Box B probably tasted dry, even though it looks shiny. If box A wouldn't have had all that rub visibly sprinkled on it and a little sauce added, it would be a 9.

Edit: That is flat leaf parsley in the first box.

Ron_L
07-22-2008, 06:57 PM
Box A - 7 - Meat looks pretty good but the overall appearance is sloppy
Box B - 8 - Better overall look but the meat isn't as appealing.

Kirk
07-22-2008, 07:28 PM
A - I believe that's either french parsley or cilantro and that's legal
Isn't that just flat leaf parsley? That would be legal for KCBS, as would cilantro per the 2008 rules.

CivilWarBBQ
07-22-2008, 07:29 PM
Good stuff so far - keep it going!

One note on Box A: the garnish was flat leaf parsley. Neither Box was DQ'ed.

CajunSmoker
07-22-2008, 07:37 PM
7 on box 1. Looks a little dry and the speckles of rub aren't very appealling

9 on box 2. looks nice and moist and makes me want to take a bite


CBJ

Rick's Tropical Delight
07-22-2008, 07:44 PM
they both look better than that mess i turned in last weekend!:roll:

Ford
07-22-2008, 08:03 PM
not a fair test. Box A is turned 90 degrees from what the judges see and Box B is what the judges see.

Having said that A - 7 B - 8.

And the light on Box A is greater causing a "lighter" picture. I got ones like this from Kettering where 2 pics were different exposures and it looks like 2 different boxes.

DBrentster
07-22-2008, 08:04 PM
Box A - 7
Box B - 8

CivilWarBBQ
07-22-2008, 08:18 PM
Both valid observations on the photography, Ford.

It's always tough to get accurate pictures of boxes, especially when you're rushing to make the deadline or the weather is poor.

Rick's Tropical Delight
07-22-2008, 08:32 PM
a little photoshop magic and A looks a little better

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/RicksTropicalDelight/biggreenegg/porkwinchester07vj1_1.jpg

Divemaster
07-23-2008, 10:13 AM
Box A - 7
Box B - 8

Great question. I personally do chunks. I do not shred. To me the more bark the better
I agree on the bark... I'm trying a mix of slices, chunks, a shredded in my next box... I just figure that it'll give them a choice of what to select... Thoughts????

lazyjacres
07-23-2008, 10:50 AM
Box A - 7 The flat leaf parsley kind of over takes the meat, and the meat doesn't have much shine. It has the appearance of being dry. That may just be the picture.

Box B - 8 I like to see more bark, and the meat looks moister. Again, it may be the picture. The parsley could be pushed down to expose the meat a little more, and hide the parsley.

The chunks of meat are bigger in A, which tends to inhance the way the meat bites. (tenderness)

If you had the A size meat in B, I would consider giving it a 9.

ZBQ
07-23-2008, 11:11 AM
I didn't read the other posts yet.
A-7
B-8, possible 9

The lighting in the pics is completely different and the softer lighting in B
gives it a more appealing look. The flat leaf parsley is just a bit distracting to me
but that doesn't enter into my score. The grains of pepper/rub are kind of distracting
and the meat looks a bit dry, but that could be the pic and the lighting.

I want some of B, looks delicious.

Oh, CBJ

KC_Bobby
07-23-2008, 11:27 AM
So, when are we going to learn the actual scores?

Westexbbq
07-23-2008, 12:16 PM
I did the same as ZBQ, did not scroll through and went with:
A. 7
B. 8

CBJ

Rolling Smoke
07-23-2008, 12:20 PM
Just curious but how did you know that's what Neil did if you didn't scroll through? :confused:

CaptTable
07-23-2008, 01:10 PM
Good one, Jim!

By the way, Gowan, I probably would have went 9 on both.

I am compensating a little for the lighting in "A".

One of my biggest "judging fear" was always that I give an 8 or 7 in appearance because I was too picky and then it would be the best thing I ever tasted! I probably kept it from winning. That would be a shame.

So something has to be pretty bad looking to get a low appearance score from me.

Phillip

Scottie
07-23-2008, 01:23 PM
What contests are you judging next Phillip? I like how you think.... 8-)

Westexbbq
07-23-2008, 01:36 PM
Just curious but how did you know that's what Neil did if you didn't scroll through? :confused:

To clarify a bit, wrote down my scores, then went to last page, went real quick to the next empty box and typed in my comment. (noted zbq's lead in)

QDoc
07-23-2008, 02:15 PM
Just curious but how did you know that's what Neil did if you didn't scroll through? :confused:
Now that's funny!:-P:lol::-P:lol::-P:lol::roll:

Bentley
07-23-2008, 02:24 PM
Both good looking boxes! I have to fess up and say I have a prefference for chunks, but box 2 looked a little more appealing to me.

A-8
B-9

CivilWarBBQ
07-23-2008, 04:18 PM
So, when are we going to learn the actual scores?

I thought I'd let it run through today to garner as many ratings from users as possible. Tomorrow I'll compile all the scores y'all gave and summarize them along with the numbers the judges gave these two boxes.

backporchbbq
07-23-2008, 04:31 PM
This thread gave me a hankering for pulled pork sammich..


sucks for me...


arghhhhhhhhhhh.


I have to agree with those scores even though I am not a CBJ. I have 15lbs of pork in the freezer that i have to keep for a party. I really want some of it.

Jeff_in_KC
07-23-2008, 04:54 PM
I am a CBJ

Box A - 7 (the garnish overpowers the meat; the meat looks dry to me. Needs more shine)

Box B - 8 (has shine and is not overpowered by garnish; I'd like to see more pink meat and bark in this one to make it a 9)

butts
07-23-2008, 08:08 PM
A-6
B-7

Garnish is too "wild" for me. Get the garnish even around the edges on B and you have a 8 or 9.

Slamdunkpro
07-23-2008, 09:22 PM
Box A - 8
Box B - 8

Plowboy
07-23-2008, 09:30 PM
I'm going to bet that box A had a better overall score. The suspense is killing me.

SmokeInDaEye
07-23-2008, 10:14 PM
I'm going to bet that box A had a better overall score. The suspense is killing me.

I'm going to bet that box A had a better overall score. The suspense is killing me.

I'm with the media whore. Box A all the way. I'm not a certified judge and haven't done many contests but if you look past the parsley and focus on the meat, box B looks over cooked, hidden by a nice sauce coating. A more focused bed of greens and a light coat of sauce on pork A would be killer IMO.

As an aside, is that an elvis tablecloth under the box in pic A?

Plowboy
07-23-2008, 11:09 PM
I'm with the media whore.

Hey, Kettle. This is Pot. You're black. :cool:

CivilWarBBQ
07-24-2008, 03:53 AM
OK, here's the results of the experiment.

Brethren who posted gave the following marks:
Box A
777768687777978 -> Average CBJ score = 7.2
8787777776 -> Average non-CBJ score = 7.1
Overall average score = 7.16

Box B
988879889888988 -> Average CBJ score = 8.2
8898688887 -> Average non-CBJ score = 7.8
Overall average score = 8.04
And here are the actual scores the judges awarded. In each case the contest advertised 100% KCBS Certified Judges.

Box A - Winchester, TN 2007
767778 -> Average appearance score = 7.0

Box B - Kennesaw, GA 2007
999999 -> Average appearance score = 9.0

About the boxes:
Box A garnered the lowest appearance score we've ever received. We were unable to find decent curly leaf parsley so we had to go with flat leaf, which as several folks mentioned gave the garnish an unkempt appearance. In addition, we felt the pork was a bit bland, so we mixed in some rub after pulling. This strategy apparently didn't help our taste scores much, but the gritty look it gave the pork certainly hurt us in appearance. This box placed 44th out of 54 teams.

Box B recieved our highest appearance score - a perfect six 9s. We were pretty happy with it at the time, though now under close scrutiny I would have liked to remove those few stringy looking bits in the center. Despite the appearance numbers, we were surprised that this box only placed 19th out of 39 teams, our lowest category of the contest.

What it means:
The Brethren and the table judges were almost perfectly in sync on Box A. While the Brethren agreed that Box B was better than A, they didn't like it as much as the table judges did. Those that identified themselves as CBJs were slightly more generous with scoring than uncertified Brethren.

Beyond that, I don't think you can draw any meaningful conclusions. There were some insightful comments that may be helpful to us in the future and I hope you had some fun with the experiment. Thanks for participating!

-Gowan

Plowboy
07-24-2008, 08:13 AM
Well, it certainly proves a hypothesis that I've concluded long ago... whatever my expectation is, usually turns out to be the opposite. If I think something is awesome, it tanks. If I think an entry is sub-par, it does well.

Just ask Randy, Andy, or KC_Bobby. Bob heard me cussing my food at a comp last year and we won GC. This weekend I was critical of Andy's chicken and he placed 2nd.

Fun experiment. Thanks.

KC_Bobby
07-24-2008, 08:42 AM
What it means:
The Brethren and the table judges were almost perfectly in sync on Box A. While the Brethren agreed that Box B was better than A, they didn't like it as much as the table judges did. Those that identified themselves as CBJs were slightly more generous with scoring than uncertified Brethren.

Beyond that, I don't think you can draw any meaningful conclusions. There were some insightful comments that may be helpful to us in the future and I hope you had some fun with the experiment. Thanks for participating!

-Gowan

I gave box A a 7, because while it looked nice and appetizing I thought it looked slightly dry and had noticable rub shaken on it after being cooked. Of course, the look of dryness have been due to the light the photo was taken in. I did like the size of the chunks and the bark.

I gave box B an 8 because I thought it looked almost top notch, but not quite a 9. Moist and a very good presentation. Again seeing it in person could have made it a 9, I don't know.

What I took away from this is to make sure I have good curly parsley. As judges we are not suppose to score on this, but to me this experiment is just more evidence to do all the little things possible to make the presentation the best possible. One presentation point either way can easily change where a turn in finishes.

BTW, so far with turning in money muscle pork in 3 comps this year, we've finished 1st, 8th and 3rd. I'd like to give Plowboy Todd, Pickled Paul and Wicked Randy a HUGE shout out letting me watch them in action. Last year Boondoggle received 1 call in 5 comps, so far this year we have 7 in 3 comps. :wink:

Podge
07-24-2008, 08:59 AM
Box A 7
Box B 9

parrothead
07-24-2008, 09:06 AM
Very good exercise. Please do another.

CaptTable
07-24-2008, 09:07 AM
Podge,

I hope your turn-in's are faster than your response was. Come on . . . Get the Shig out!!!!!!!!!!!

Phillip