PDA

View Full Version : COSTLY lesson learned and box pics


ZBQ
07-20-2008, 11:13 AM
Well guys, I learned a VERY COSTLY lesson this weekend.

Make ABSOLUTELY farking sure that your ribs/brisket slices are COMPLETELY seperated!!!:roll::mad::oops:

I had a rib that wasn't COMPETELY seperated and when the judge picked it up
another one came with it. The rep (Kathy Brasier (sp?) came and told me about it. She said that
when she (the judge)picked it up again off her plate that it came apart.:roll:
But, since it was already on her plate, one judge did not get a sample.:oops:

So, I got 1's across the board for appearance and all 1's from the judge who didn't get a sample!!:oops:

Talk about COSTLY!!! DAL ribs!!:roll::oops:

On the flip side I was really happy with the chicken we did. I thought it turned out really nice.
Nice and juicy with a really good flavor.

I did the "putting green" which turned out nice but my brisket slices were a bit
too long and you couldn't see any parsely in a couple of spots along the edges.

Anyways, here are the scores and the pics.
Let me have it guys.
It can't be any worse than seeing the rep standing in front of
my table telling me about the ribs.:roll:

12th placeChicken- 878 / 878 / 889 / 988 / 778 / 878
DAL Ribs-:oops: 165 / 176 / 176 / 166 / 155 / 111
36th place Pork- 766 / 666 / 667 / 766 / 867 / 688
30th place Brisket- 777 / 888 / 877 / 866 / 866 / 767

37th out of 39 overall:oops:
Looks like my chicken saved me from DAL overall!!:oops:

All in all it was a great time and great to see and meet so many Brethren.
I think I heard that 16 out of the 39 teams were Brethren teams!!

Rick's Tropical Delight
07-20-2008, 11:20 AM
hey! are you sick of reggae yet? :biggrin:

good seein you this weekend. i don't think they should have told you about the ribs until AFTER the next two turn-ins. that just wasn't right

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
07-20-2008, 11:25 AM
I know that's the rule, but it still sucks. Sorry you had to have such a hard lesson.

ZBQ
07-20-2008, 11:26 AM
hey! are you sick of reggae yet? :biggrin:

good seein you this weekend. i don't think they should have told you about the ribs until AFTER the next two turn-ins. that just wasn't right

Nice seeing you again!

Yeah, hearing about the ribs kinda "took the wind out of my sails" for the pork and brisket.:oops::roll:

I still have that farking "Red Red Wine" going through my head!!:lol:

Thanks FARKER!!:twisted:

BBQ Betty guarding her "nest of eggs".

Alexa RnQ
07-20-2008, 11:47 AM
i don't think they should have told you about the ribs until AFTER the next two turn-ins. that just wasn't right
There's a point -- it's hard to focus on your next two turn-ins after a blow like that, but then again, I bet you were extra careful getting those brisket slices COMPLETELY separate! EVERY team gets caught sooner or later on something that makes you go http://www.divaherself.com/popeindespair.gif

Here are my box thoughts:

Chicken -- The look too light, and the color is very uniform, rough them up a little with some near-scorch marks. The sizes are not uniform, and that's highlighted by their arrangement -- the front right thigh is very long, and the front left is very short!

Ribs -- The sauce is too heavy, at least from a glance at the photo.

Pork -- The pork looks sparse in the box, I'd like to see more in there.

Dale P
07-20-2008, 11:50 AM
I cant say that I care for the timing but I saw Cathy cry actual tears about this several hours after the fact. I mean actual tears, it hurt her guys.
That cut in the brisket makes me wonder a bit about marking. Looks like a Z to me! :)
Sorry about that mistake Bro. Nice to meet you.

Big Mike
07-20-2008, 11:57 AM
I cant say that I care for the timing but I saw Cathy cry actual tears about this several hours after the fact. I mean actual tears, it hurt her guys.
That cut in the brisket makes me wonder a bit about marking. Looks like a Z to me! :)
Sorry about that mistake Bro. Nice to meet you.

I was gonna say the same thing about the brisket. I'd be careful with that.

I don't think the light chicken is a prob, but I do think they need more sauce.

Smooth out the sauce on the ribs some. I'm assuming from the pic that the top 2 ribs are the ones that were still connected. I place each rib in the box one at a time.

Add more pork to the box.

eurycea
07-20-2008, 12:04 PM
Well guys, I learned a VERY COSTLY lesson this weekend.

Make ABSOLUTELY farking sure that your ribs/brisket slices are COMPLETELY seperated!!!:roll::mad::oops:

I had a rib that wasn't COMPETELY seperated and when the judge picked it up
another one came with it. The rep (Kathy Brasier (sp?) came and told me about it. She said that
when she (the judge)picked it up again off her plate that it came apart.:roll:
But, since it was already on her plate, one judge did not get a sample.:oops:

So, I got 1's across the board for appearance and all 1's from the judge who didn't get a sample!!:oops:

Talk about COSTLY!!! DAL ribs!!:roll::oops:



I judged at a contest where one person had ribs that weren't cut completely and the last judge wouldn't have gotten a rib and the rep said that since it looked like there were 6 samples we weren't suppose to give it 1's for appearance. I'm not even sure if the person that didn't get a rib gave them a 1 for appearance.

Rick's Tropical Delight
07-20-2008, 12:15 PM
Nice seeing you again!

Yeah, hearing about the ribs kinda "took the wind out of my sails" for the pork and brisket.:oops::roll:

I still have that farking "Red Red Wine" going through my head!!:lol:

Thanks FARKER!!:twisted:

BBQ Betty guarding her "nest of eggs".

ya know... betty didn't do a dang thing all weekend! :icon_pissed
no dish washin, no cutting, no box building, no nuthin!

i had setup, tear down and box running help, but i did all the rest

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/RicksTropicalDelight/biggreenegg/comp/ohiovetcomp2008-016.jpg

BBQ Grail
07-20-2008, 12:18 PM
ya know... betty didn't do a dang thing all weekend! :icon_pissed
no dish washin, no cutting, no box building, no nuthin!

Rick,

Maybe you have not noticed. Betty is just a pretty face. She has no arms. When we have to high of expectations we are sure to be disappointed.

ZBQ
07-20-2008, 01:02 PM
I cant say that I care for the timing but I saw Cathy cry actual tears about this several hours after the fact. I mean actual tears, it hurt her guys.
That cut in the brisket makes me wonder a bit about marking. Looks like a Z to me! :)
Sorry about that mistake Bro. Nice to meet you.

You know, I never even thought about that. You're right though.
I didn't even see that till you called my attention to it.:roll:
It came out of the cryovac like that.
There was a big knife cut running down the length of the meat side, about 8 or 9 inches.
It looked like it was only about 1/8 inch deep so I didn't pay it any attention.
I will DEFINATELY trim the flap of the cut if I ever see that again!!

You know, that would be a really slick way to personalize the meat for a catering gig!:lol:

I'm definately NOT bashing Cathy for telling us. Not at all.
It's just something that she had to do as a Rep. Part of the job.
I have no reason to question her, none at all.
I figure the timing part is just the way they have to do it.
They are probably instructed to IMMEDIATELY notify the team.
How it hit me and how I dealt with it has no reflection on Cathy, just me.

Honestly, I hope Cathy reads this so she doesn't think I have any hard feelings about it, because I don't.

I was gonna say the same thing about the brisket. I'd be careful with that.

I don't think the light chicken is a prob, but I do think they need more sauce.

Smooth out the sauce on the ribs some. I'm assuming from the pic that the top 2 ribs are the ones that were still connected. I place each rib in the box one at a time.

Add more pork to the box.

I'm assuming those 2 ribs as well Mike. Not sure since I didn't see it.

There's a point -- it's hard to focus on your next two turn-ins after a blow like that, but then again, I bet you were extra careful getting those brisket slices COMPLETELY separate! EVERY team gets caught sooner or later on something that makes you go http://www.divaherself.com/popeindespair.gif

Here are my box thoughts:

Chicken -- The look too light, and the color is very uniform, rough them up a little with some near-scorch marks. The sizes are not uniform, and that's highlighted by their arrangement -- the front right thigh is very long, and the front left is very short!

Ribs -- The sauce is too heavy, at least from a glance at the photo.

Pork -- The pork looks sparse in the box, I'd like to see more in there.

Being completely honest here......my mind was scrambled eggs after she told me about
the ribs and I had no idea what I was going to do for the pork box.......blank........that was what I came up with.

Rick's Tropical Delight
07-20-2008, 01:17 PM
I cant say that I care for the timing but I saw Cathy cry actual tears about this several hours after the fact. I mean actual tears, it hurt her guys.
That cut in the brisket makes me wonder a bit about marking. Looks like a Z to me! :)
Sorry about that mistake Bro. Nice to meet you.

i know that must have been tough to deliver the news. i wouldn't have wanted to know till after the turn-ins still.

that's one good thing about using ribs from different slabs, they are sure to be separated

Smokin Gator
07-20-2008, 02:35 PM
I have seen the reps walking to or leaving a cook sight during turn ins and my heart always goes out to that competitor... Glad you got through it brother!!

CajunSmoker
07-20-2008, 03:11 PM
Sorry it had to happen to you brother, but those hard lessons are the ones we never forget.:frown:

smoke showin'
07-20-2008, 06:28 PM
hey man sorry about the ribs but I agree to much sauce at least from pic ckn looked good but again a little light (grill marks ) we keep a weber kettle just for that , Bris was pretty also

Divemaster
07-21-2008, 01:52 PM
'Z', man I'm sorry to hear about the ribs... I guess I can see both sides, I'm not sure I would want to know until after my last turn-in, but I can also see Cathy's side of warning you that it happened so it wouldn't again.

In my CBJ class we were told that 'often competitors are going to put in more than 6 pieces so that the table judge can get one. This also covers the entry if two pieces stick together." Words I've taken to heart as I always make sure that there are always eight pieces.

As for the other boxes, I agree that the chicken is a little light, and the sizing is a little off. There is a bit more sauce on the ribs than I would like to see, It almost looks like you are hiding something. I would like to have seen more pork with less sauce or a glaze on it (I know that this box is a blank). I think your brisket looks great but like others have said, watch the flaps.

Again, I'm sorry this happened.

Big George's BBQ
07-21-2008, 02:00 PM
That is a tough lesson to learn. Your boxes will be extra good next time

ZBQ
07-21-2008, 02:13 PM
'Z', man I'm sorry to hear about the ribs... I guess I can see both sides, I'm not sure I would want to know until after my last turn-in, but I can also see Cathy's side of warning you that it happened so it wouldn't again.

In my CBJ class we were told that 'often competitors are going to put in more than 6 pieces so that the table judge can get one. This also covers the entry if two pieces stick together." Words I've taken to heart as I always make sure that there are always eight pieces.

As for the other boxes, I agree that the chicken is a little light, and the sizing is a little off. There is a bit more sauce on the ribs than I would like to see, It almost looks like you are hiding something. I would like to have seen more pork with less sauce or a glaze on it (I know that this box is a blank). I think your brisket looks great but like others have said, watch the flaps.

Again, I'm sorry this happened.

Thanks Jeff.
Just to be clear, Cathy did nothing wrong.
I just didn't handle it well.

You can bet your sweet arse that it will NEVER happen again!!
Putting 8 ribs in the box is a great piece of insurance. Thanks!

I wasn't hiding anything, I just didn't thin the sauce down enough.
I poured it on so there were no brush marks.
This will be revised as well.

Live and Learn...........

Harbormaster
07-21-2008, 02:23 PM
I am so glad you shared this disappointment with us Steve.
I finally have the chance to do a comp, and this is one mistake I want to avoid. Others have learned from your mishap, so that's good.
I am rethinking how I plan to present my ribs as I type this. I was planning on doing six ribs that were "Hollywood" (?) cut, but may go to eight that are "center" cut.
I sure hope the rep reads this too. Takes a big man to own the situation.

Scottie
07-21-2008, 02:55 PM
What did the Rep do wrong? She did her job. They are to go and tell the team that their entry was DQ immediately after judging... They do not wait until the end of the contest to break the bad news to the teams... It's immediate. That way if there is something that needs to be corrected, it can be done for the next turn-in.

FWIW Phillip and Kathy might be 2 of the best reps that KCBS has. There is never a grey area when they are repping. I for one appreciate that in reps. I also know that I would go and cook a contest that they are repping, just because I know it will be a fair contest.

Scottie

ps my suggestion would be to get a sharper knife. As the cuts on the ribs almost looked like your kniofe was not sharp enough... They were not clean.

U2CANQUE
07-21-2008, 03:00 PM
Yeah, hate to see it....but that is the hard set up with that part......the previous contest we were in the rep spent most of the cooks meeting talking about dq for this, dq for that, but, you can gurantee that there were no teams that did anything close to the dq talking points.....chalk it up and then you will be better off for it next time.....

Was still great to meet ya though.....

Dale P
07-21-2008, 03:20 PM
The problem folks were having was the timing and Scottie cleared that up. I think many of us didnt know the rules about when we are supposed to be told the bad news. And to be honest, what Scottie explained makes perfect sense. Adjust for the next turn in. And I also agree about the reps. They do a great job, and I just like them both. Cathy is easier on the eyes than that helper she drags along.

Scottie
07-21-2008, 03:29 PM
I can agree with that Dale. If anything, he just drags her down... As I have to stick up for her, as we were both born in the same hospital... :twisted:

Divemaster
07-21-2008, 03:31 PM
Thanks Jeff.
Just to be clear, Cathy did nothing wrong.
I just didn't handle it well.

Like I said I can see both sides, and with Scottie's comment, I fully understand why it had to be that way.

You can bet your sweet arse that it will NEVER happen again!!
Putting 8 ribs in the box is a great piece of insurance. Thanks!
I do that with all of my entries esp. brisket and ribs. It also helps fill the box so, IMHO, it looks better.

I wasn't hiding anything, I just didn't thin the sauce down enough.
I poured it on so there were no brush marks.
This will be revised as well.

Live and Learn...........
I didn't mean to come across that you were... It's just me... Remember, I've had your cooking and know how good it is!

Maybe next time maybe you could thin it down a tad and then pour it...

ZBQ
07-21-2008, 03:32 PM
What did the Rep do wrong? She did her job. They are to go and tell the team that their entry was DQ immediately after judging... They do not wait until the end of the contest to break the bad news to the teams... It's immediate. That way if there is something that needs to be corrected, it can be done for the next turn-in.

FWIW Phillip and Kathy might be 2 of the best reps that KCBS has. There is never a grey area when they are repping. I for one appreciate that in reps. I also know that I would go and cook a contest that they are repping, just because I know it will be a fair contest.

Scottie

ps my suggestion would be to get a sharper knife. As the cuts on the ribs almost looked like your kniofe was not sharp enough... They were not clean.

Scottie, please read my other posts.

I have REPEATEDLY said that Kathy did nothing wrong.

I handled the news badly.
It just really hit me hard when it sunk in just how bad this little
screw up cost us.

She was very professional when she told us and I could see it in her face that
she REALLY cared that it hurt our teams scores.

Actually, if you really want to know, the 1st words out of her mouth were:
"This is part of the job that I hate" I know in my heart that she meant it.

The ONLY person I am upset with is MYSELF for letting it happen
in the first place, because I know better!!

Thanks for the advice about the knife.....much appreciated...I will be revising my whole rib turn in
procedure so this NEVER happens again.

Scottie
07-21-2008, 03:42 PM
I don't think I was implying that you thought Kathy did anything wrong. It was some things that others had said.

While I have never had a rep come to my site between turn-ins. I am sure it is very distracting and nerve wracking... As you said, it is a lesson that you learned and it won't happen again.

Try a super sharp knife. My 2 sharpest knives that I own are my ribs knife and my brisket knife. My rib knife will cut through cooked rib bones... I only use those 2 knives for my rib turn in and my brisket turn in. THey are not used for anything else, just to keep that super sharp edge...


Scottie

Rick's Tropical Delight
07-21-2008, 04:46 PM
i said it wasn't right and i was speaking purely for how i would have taken the bad news and i know neil didn't take it very well. the rules may say to immediately inform the team prior to their next turn in, but in my first comp, uninformed opinion, i think that is a bad idea. they aren't turning in any more ribs, pork and brisket is next. i was having a hard enough time getting my boxes ready and the bad news would have crushed me. in my uninformed opinion, i'd rather get the news after the last turn-in. maybe i'm just too sentitive.

in the reps defense, after the cooks meeting and after the playing of the cd which restated the rules, the reps explained how the exact same thing happened at a previous comp and what the consequences were. they also explained how bad they felt when they delivered the news on that one.

so i reckon we all use this as a learning experience. i really feel for neil on this one because i know how he would take it because he was set-up right in front of me, although i didn't know what happened until i read this thread.

i apologize if i wasn't clear in my statements.

The Pigman
07-21-2008, 07:59 PM
As I was coming back from turning in our ribs I saw a Brethren pulling his pork butt and it was mush and I felt so sorry for him we both had tears in our eyes. He has been one that I have come close to and conside a good friend even though we have seen each other just a few times. It sucks and I know my turn is coming but it dont make it any easier

parrothead
07-21-2008, 08:20 PM
I disagree with the rule that all should give you a 1 for appearance, but the rules is the rules. Live and learn.

Bentley
07-21-2008, 08:36 PM
I had a rib that wasn't COMPETELY seperated and when the judge picked it up
another one came with it.

So, I got 1's across the board for appearance and all 1's from the judge who didn't get a sample!!:oops:




Never have figured out why you get 1's for something that has nothing to do with whether they are all attached or not.

The judges view the box before anyone takes a sample, what possible point is there for making 6 people give a 1?

1 judge does not get a taste, guess what you get two 1's from 1 judge. What am I missing here?

CaptTable
07-21-2008, 08:45 PM
Neil,

It was very thoughtful and classy of you to call us earlier and especially for talking to Kathy. We've been reading the posts all along and fully understood what you were saying and knew you never implied Kathy did anything wrong.

I have not chimed in earlier because I was really curious to see the different responses to the situation. I am particularly glad to see that most everyone really does know that it hurts us deeply, as it does almost all reps, to have to, basically, take someone out of the "overall" picture.

Rick, I understand where you are coming from about how you would prefer to not be told until after the contest. I believe after you have been competing a little longer and see a few more situations like this (and, regretfully, there will be more) you will come to see the necessity of immediate response. Kathy and I feel this type action is as much out of respect to the team as it is anything else. Plus, you will harden yourself to just let it drop and continue on because the turn-in times continue on.

As for waiting until after the contest to inform, there is a lot on the reps' plates once the judging ends and should any other situation have occurred that would need to be addressed, well, things could get very chaotic and something fall through the crack. And that would be disasterous to learn of something like this by seeing it in the scoring!

Sorry for the long post, but I just want to reiterate, Neil, that you didn't have to make the personal call, but it meant a lot to us as does all the nice things said about us in the above posts.

Phillip & Kathy

Rick's Tropical Delight
07-22-2008, 05:40 AM
thanks for the response, phillip & kathy. i understand how it all works now and see the reasoning behind it. sometime my emotions get the best of me and cloud my better judgement...

neil, that was a standup thing to do by calling them to discuss the situation. you have my respect. sorry if i fueled the fire and caused this situation to be worse. i hope to see you in sharonville and i promise not to play reggae the entire time :biggrin:

The Pigman
07-22-2008, 05:52 AM
So if you are not playing Reggae does that effect the Boat Eggs on Sat Morn.???????????

ZBQ
07-22-2008, 08:16 AM
Neil,

It was very thoughtful and classy of you to call us earlier and especially for talking to Kathy. We've been reading the posts all along and fully understood what you were saying and knew you never implied Kathy did anything wrong.

I have not chimed in earlier because I was really curious to see the different responses to the situation. I am particularly glad to see that most everyone really does know that it hurts us deeply, as it does almost all reps, to have to, basically, take someone out of the "overall" picture.

Rick, I understand where you are coming from about how you would prefer to not be told until after the contest. I believe after you have been competing a little longer and see a few more situations like this (and, regretfully, there will be more) you will come to see the necessity of immediate response. Kathy and I feel this type action is as much out of respect to the team as it is anything else. Plus, you will harden yourself to just let it drop and continue on because the turn-in times continue on.

As for waiting until after the contest to inform, there is a lot on the reps' plates once the judging ends and should any other situation have occurred that would need to be addressed, well, things could get very chaotic and something fall through the crack. And that would be disasterous to learn of something like this by seeing it in the scoring!

Sorry for the long post, but I just want to reiterate, Neil, that you didn't have to make the personal call, but it meant a lot to us as does all the nice things said about us in the above posts.

Phillip & Kathy

Thanks Phillip and Kathy.

The intent of my original post was a rant for myself, and "learn from my mistakes" for others.
Somehow it became something else along the way.

Looking forward to seeing you guys again, well....NOT during turn in!:wink::lol:

Hopefully we can put this to bed now.

Thanks again
Neil:-D

bignburlyman
07-22-2008, 09:18 AM
Well I don't post often, more of a lurker but I thought I might give my opinion on these entries:

Chicken----based on your scores looks like the taste was what brought it down a little- appearance scores were ok, maybe as others said a little darker, taste could have been enhanced by a little more sauce? I don't look at the evenness of pieces size to score appearance, but maybe by putting smaller pieces in front and larger in back makes it more balanced. Nice that the greenery doesn't overwhelm the box. Good job overall, my score---8.

Ribs---sauce is a little thick as stated, the ribs are uneven in size, (3rd bone from bottom is way wider than the others, maybe a little more balance. Looks like the taste and tenderness scores from the judges with a sample were low, so something must have been off there. I wonder if the appearance DQ could influence the other scores lower? Or were they not great ribs. My score---7.

Pork---the pieces with bark in front look a little dry, go with more meat in the box, maybe more pieces with bark surrounding the pieces in the middle. Looks like taste and tenderness scores hurt once again. My score---7.

Brisket---the notch in the top of the slice detracts from appearance to me, it immediately draws my eye to it. The fat across the bottom of the front slice may detract from your score, maybe trim that off before boxing. The slices have a nice shine, I presume from a little sauce. Again, 3 of the judges scores for taste and tenderness hurt you. My score----7, if not for the notch it would be a solid 8.

Good luck at your next comp.