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View Full Version : What is Judging coming to? Lenexa BBQ


Just Pulin' Pork
05-14-2008, 01:34 PM
This was sent to me! Mods if this is wrong place to post please move it.I do not agree with it with an event of this size! What do you think?

LENEXA BBQ JUDGING SEATS - $215 (Lenexa)

Reply to: see below
Date: 2008-05-14, 11:05AM CDT


Ready for a fun filled day of eating some of the juiciest most delicious BBQ around? Our softball team, The Olathe Storm, has been given 2 judges seats for the famous Lenexa BBQ contest to auction off. Basically all you can eat BBQ!!
100% of proceeds will be donated for our team's expenses. You will also receive a tax receipt for your donation. Please email olathestorm@yahoo.com and leave your name, phone number, offer, or and question that you might have. The individual with the highest bid will receive the tickets. We will keep the highest bid posted below.

Highest bid: $ 215.00

Lenexa BBQ information:

June 26th @ 6:30(judges clinic)
June 27th & 28th
Friday 5pm 11pm (pre-party)
Saturday 9am 5pm (judging)

Location: Sar-Ko-Par Trails Park (87th & Lackman Road)
For more information on this amazing BBQ visit www.ci.lenexa.ks.us/parks/bbq.com

Thanks,

Olathe Storm

SP
05-14-2008, 03:14 PM
I did that contest a couple years. It is notorius for its judging or lack there of. I hope Merl sees this, I would like to know thoughts of boards on this. I would like to have some bbq guy with no umping experience tell them that he/she is going to do their game and see their thoughts. Ohh well. One of the reasons I don't do that contest.

LindaM
05-14-2008, 03:17 PM
I am not Merl but count just as much on the board. I will make sure it is brought to the attention of everyone else.

Linda Mullane

SP
05-14-2008, 03:22 PM
Thanks Linda.

Just Pulin' Pork
05-14-2008, 03:22 PM
I am not Merl but count just as much on the board. I will make sure it is brought to the attention of everyone else.

Linda Mullane


Linda thank you. I am not meaning to bash anyone or keep people from making money but when we as teams spend as much $$$ on the sport/hobby I would like to think we can have CBJ's at these contests.

Scottie
05-14-2008, 03:28 PM
I think they have to attend the "judging clinic" on thursday though? At least that's how I am reading it. It was also posted on another Forum, that the Olathe Storm is a Special Olympics team. That si why it is tax deductible.

If that is the case, I do not see anything the matter with it.

Plowboy
05-14-2008, 03:29 PM
This came up as a big discussion late last year. I was surprised to find out that judging seats are sold as part of sponsorship packages all the time.

Plowboy
05-14-2008, 03:32 PM
I think they have to attend the "judging clinic" on thursday though? At least that's how I am reading it. It was also posted on another Forum, that the Olathe Storm is a Special Olympics team. That si why it is tax deductible.

If that is the case, I do not see anything the matter with it.


Kind of off topic here, but I don't think you can report a charitable donation when you receive something for that donation, regardless of its worth and what you paid for it. In this case, you are purchasing judging seats through an auction. Their ad is a bit misleading that way.

Game on.

BBQ_Mayor
05-14-2008, 03:34 PM
I think they have to attend the "judging clinic" on thursday though? At least that's how I am reading it. It was also posted on another Forum, that the Olathe Storm is a Special Olympics team. That si why it is tax deductible.

If that is the case, I do not see anything the matter with it.


I was reading the same thing scottie. I could see it as paying for a judging class which probably comes with a membership to the KCBS and a pre party on Friday night. The judging is just the icing on the cake.
If its for a good cause like that, then I'd agree with it.

Scottie
05-14-2008, 03:42 PM
No, if yuou get any value, the 501c3 has to say what the value of that was. Not sure how they can determine what the value of the judging is?

As I just officially filed my taxes yesterday for my foundation. So I am well versed in tax laws right now. Unfortunately... :shock:

KC_Bobby
05-14-2008, 03:46 PM
Seeing that the Storm's team isn't a bunch of 30-ear-old beer drinkers, I now don't have a real problem with the idea of selling the seats AS long as the buyers are required to attend the Thursday night clinic - if they are not already CBJs.

Plowboy
05-14-2008, 03:46 PM
No, if yuou get any value, the 501c3 has to say what the value of that was. Not sure how they can determine what the value of the judging is?

As I just officially filed my taxes yesterday for my foundation. So I am well versed in tax laws right now. Unfortunately... :shock:

Thanks.

Neal
05-14-2008, 03:47 PM
A number of contests have judges that are not CBJ's...especially large contests like this one. With close to 200 teams competing, it is a real challenge to find enough judges and table captains to cover every spot. Lenexa has good number of judges that only judge that single contest every year. They are not CBJ's...but they think they are. I think that is why they do the "Judges Clinic" on Friday...notice it's not a CBJ class. They need to streamline the judging with all of their old timers and all of the new folks...and they have plenty every year.

All that said...my thought is this: if you are going to get a judge who is not a CBJ anyway, you might as well get someone who paid good money to do it. They will take it seriously and look at it as a unique experience and will want to do it right.

BBQ Grail
05-14-2008, 03:48 PM
Any one can give anyone a receipt! Just because you get a receipt doesn't mean you can deduct it.

I'm not a bbq competitor, nor am I a judge. But I see so many things wrong with this practice.

Scottie
05-14-2008, 03:55 PM
Well, the fines for doing these things are rather large. So it is a practice that I would not recommend. Unless of course you have a large account. As the IRS will start taking it pretty quick.

As for the "donation letter", it has to come obviously from a registered 501c3 corporation. The govt. gives out tax ID numbers just for that purpose. So I am assuming that the "Storm" is a registered 501c3 for them to claim that it is or could be a tax deduction.

While there are a lot of unethical groups out there, my guess is one that advertises in a ublic place will not be unethical...

Just some thoughts..

BBQ Grail
05-14-2008, 03:59 PM
Well, the fines for doing these things are rather large. So it is a practice that I would not recommend. Unless of course you have a large account. As the IRS will start taking it pretty quick.

As for the "donation letter", it has to come obviously from a registered 501c3 corporation. The govt. gives out tax ID numbers just for that purpose. So I am assuming that the "Storm" is a registered 501c3 for them to claim that it is or could be a tax deduction.

While there are a lot of unethical groups out there, my guess is one that advertises in a ublic place will not be unethical...

Just some thoughts..

I stand corrected. I must have read that first post five times and didn't catch the "baseball team" part. Makes more sense to me now.

lwest99
05-14-2008, 03:59 PM
I am not a fan of the Lenexa BBQ because of things like this but I am fine with it since it is for a good cause. I think I have heard of celebrity judges there in the past. I could be wrong however. We do not do this contest anymore because of the entry process.

The_Kapn
05-14-2008, 06:30 PM
I think they have to attend the "judging clinic" on thursday though? At least that's how I am reading it. It was also posted on another Forum, that the Olathe Storm is a Special Olympics team. That si why it is tax deductible.

If that is the case, I do not see anything the matter with it.

DITTO.

If the high bidder attends the clinic and shows up to judge rested and sober after the "pre-party", I do not see a problem.
JMHO

TIM

Merl
05-14-2008, 06:58 PM
KCBS has resisted the urge to require all judges to be CBJ's. It has even resisted having a percentage of CBJ's. There are contest where no CBJ's are allowed to judge.

Many contest have asked for donations to judge. Many give priority to members of the booster club or foundation. KCBS does not make rules, recognizing these contest are raising money for worthy causes.

Saying that, we do not mean to say we don't have an interest. Last year we proposed to put the percentage of CBJ's from last year to be posted on the KCBS contest calendar. We now track these numbers and will be part of our web site. You can decide to go to contest with CBJ's or no CBJ's. Its your choice.

Why did we do this. I believe the market place will drive the contest. When contestants make the choice to attend contest with 100% CBJ's, then the message will be sent.

So in reality you have the power to send the message. If you do not approve of certain practices at contest, then don't go. When you see a contest that is run in the manner you believe is best, not only should you support this contest, but encourage your friends to do so as well.

It is time for each of us to speak out though our actions. The fight for contestants can only become more difficult in the next years. Let the organizer understand what you choose to support.

In that way, you have the voice, you can make change.

Sorry for the rant.
Yours in Q
Merl

eurycea
05-14-2008, 07:43 PM
Saying that, we do not mean to say we don't have an interest. Last year we proposed to put the percentage of CBJ's from last year to be posted on the KCBS contest calendar. We now track these numbers and will be part of our web site. You can decide to go to contest with CBJ's or no CBJ's. Its your choice.


How does KCBS go about making sure the percentages that the contest report are accurate? I judged a contest that was listed as a 100% CBJ's beforehand but only had 60-70% CBJs.

SP
05-14-2008, 09:24 PM
This may be a sporadic rant but I have a few thought going threw my mind. This is a rare occasion, so I guess I need to get them out.

Thanks Merl. I agree with your input, as I said I decided not to due this contest (Lenexa BBQ) anymore, for several reasons, one being the judging. It was very inconsistent and I walked both years I was there. I just saw judging all over the place.

Here is something that the board should consider.

If we have to be KCBS members, according to some contest and some talk, or get charged a higher fee, then maybe we should be told that judge are people that donate money for the "cause", or that there will be ex: approx 25% CBJ's. I'm all for help charity events, its great, but when we (teams) are shelling out buck for comp, we should have a little expectation. I know that is easier said than done, but it just thoughts.

Just Pulin' Pork
05-15-2008, 12:24 AM
This may be a sporadic rant but I have a few thought going threw my mind. This is a rare occasion, so I guess I need to get them out.

Thanks Merl. I agree with your input, as I said I decided not to due this contest (Lenexa BBQ) anymore, for several reasons, one being the judging. It was very inconsistent and I walked both years I was there. I just saw judging all over the place.

Here is something that the board should consider.

If we have to be KCBS members, according to some contest and some talk, or get charged a higher fee, then maybe we should be told that judge are people that donate money for the "cause", or that there will be ex: approx 25% CBJ's. I'm all for help charity events, its great, but when we (teams) are shelling out buck for comp, we should have a little expectation. I know that is easier said than done, but it just thoughts.

Well said that is my feelings exactly!

Just Pulin' Pork
05-15-2008, 12:29 AM
KCBS has resisted the urge to require all judges to be CBJ's. It has even resisted having a percentage of CBJ's. There are contest where no CBJ's are allowed to judge.

Many contest have asked for donations to judge. Many give priority to members of the booster club or foundation. KCBS does not make rules, recognizing these contest are raising money for worthy causes.

Saying that, we do not mean to say we don't have an interest. Last year we proposed to put the percentage of CBJ's from last year to be posted on the KCBS contest calendar. We now track these numbers and will be part of our web site. You can decide to go to contest with CBJ's or no CBJ's. Its your choice.

Why did we do this. I believe the market place will drive the contest. When contestants make the choice to attend contest with 100% CBJ's, then the message will be sent.

So in reality you have the power to send the message. If you do not approve of certain practices at contest, then don't go. When you see a contest that is run in the manner you believe is best, not only should you support this contest, but encourage your friends to do so as well.

It is time for each of us to speak out though our actions. The fight for contestants can only become more difficult in the next years. Let the organizer understand what you choose to support.

In that way, you have the voice, you can make change.

Sorry for the rant.
Yours in Q
Merl

Merl thanks for your insight and your work with the KCBS.

Roo-B-Q'N
05-15-2008, 08:55 AM
This may be a sporadic rant but I have a few thought going threw my mind. This is a rare occasion, so I guess I need to get them out.

Thanks Merl. I agree with your input, as I said I decided not to due this contest (Lenexa BBQ) anymore, for several reasons, one being the judging. It was very inconsistent and I walked both years I was there. I just saw judging all over the place.

Here is something that the board should consider.

If we have to be KCBS members, according to some contest and some talk, or get charged a higher fee, then maybe we should be told that judge are people that donate money for the "cause", or that there will be ex: approx 25% CBJ's. I'm all for help charity events, its great, but when we (teams) are shelling out buck for comp, we should have a little expectation. I know that is easier said than done, but it just thoughts.

The higher fee issue is no longer supported, or at least pushed by KCBS. They put it out there and found a lot of negative feedback concerning it. They did not totaly retract it, but are allowing organizers to do so if they want. Just like not doing contests with 100% CBJ's you can choose not to do contests that require KCBS membership, and tell the organizer you are not doing their contest for that reason.
I would like to see a listing of CBJ numbers of those judging at each contest. Actually I would like to see the CBJ numbers of those that judged each box. We have a few Rogue judges that think it is fine and dandy to constantly give 4 and 5 and table captains that let them. They know who we are, we should at leat know the numbers of those judging us.
Seat sales and celebrity judges are foine if you do not care about your cooks. Just my 2 cents.

DawgPhan
05-15-2008, 09:04 AM
Basically if this contest wants to do this then it is none of KCBS's business. If someone doesnt want to go because someone at this contest is trying to raise money for special olympics then go somewhere else. I am sure that there is another contest that weekend.

If KCBS thinks that they can require a certain percentage of CBJ's I think that they are wasting their time. 1 they have basically no way of managing that process, especially after the disaster that was the "non-kcbs charge" idea. 2 most contests dont advertise the number of certified judges before a contest anyway so teams arent making their decisions based on the number of CBJ's anyway....but this is the internet so I am sure that someone will post that they make all their comp choices based on the number of CBJs at an event.

This is such a non-issue to be complained about on so many boards. Folks always come out of the woodwork to pile on though.

Just Pulin' Pork
05-15-2008, 09:38 AM
This is such a non-issue to be complained about on so many boards. Folks always come out of the woodwork to pile on though.

With all do respect I do beleive it is an issue. For one I am not convinced that this is a Special Olympics team we are talking about. I am almost certain this is a competitve softball team that travels to tournaments and needs $$$ to support there trips. That is the issue I have with it. Don't use our contests and "raffle off" judges seats in order to gain a buck. We spend alot of money on this "hobby" and I think it is not to hard to keep this from happening.

DawgPhan
05-15-2008, 10:20 AM
With all do respect I do beleive it is an issue. For one I am not convinced that this is a Special Olympics team we are talking about. I am almost certain this is a competitve softball team that travels to tournaments and needs $$$ to support there trips. That is the issue I have with it. Don't use our contests and "raffle off" judges seats in order to gain a buck. We spend alot of money on this "hobby" and I think it is not to hard to keep this from happening.

I would imagine that most contest use those judges seats as a way to reward sponsors and civic leaders. Hell the Jack uses strictly celeb judges...So it isnt an issue with using non certified judges...They said that the judges would have to take some sort of clinic. Seems fine to me. I dont know why anyone thinks that taking a class makes someone an expert on judging bbq. No one has ever not become certified after the class and we know that people walk out of that class not understand the rules...Being a CBJ doesnt make you any more of an expert on what good bbq is than someone who paid several $100 to charity and takes a judging clinic..

I dont know anything about this team other than someone said that they raise money for the special olympics...I dont like that it was advertised as all you can eat BBQ, but that is what most folks think when they think BBQ contest anyway.

lwest99
05-15-2008, 12:14 PM
. I am almost certain this is a competitve softball team that travels to tournaments and needs $$$ to support there trips.


FYI I emailed the Parks and Rec person for Olathe Special Olympics and there is no affiliation. Like many of the other posters indicated probably standard practice but there is no warm and fuzzy story behind this one.

SP
05-15-2008, 01:50 PM
The higher fee issue is no longer supported, or at least pushed by KCBS. They put it out there and found a lot of negative feedback concerning it. They did not totaly retract it, but are allowing organizers to do so if they want. Just like not doing contests with 100% CBJ's you can choose not to do contests that require KCBS membership, and tell the organizer you are not doing their contest for that reason.
I would like to see a listing of CBJ numbers of those judging at each contest. Actually I would like to see the CBJ numbers of those that judged each box. We have a few Rogue judges that think it is fine and dandy to constantly give 4 and 5 and table captains that let them. They know who we are, we should at leat know the numbers of those judging us.
Seat sales and celebrity judges are foine if you do not care about your cooks. Just my 2 cents.

Good thoughts Roo. I too wonder it unusually low scores are from CBJ's or compeditors that say I can do better that that.

My idea was mearly a thought and as most thoughts go, I never think it will be a reality. I just through it out there. Didnt want to get everyone panties in a bunch.

SP
05-15-2008, 02:06 PM
PS The ad only really bothers me because of the disregaurd for my sport for theirs.

KC_Bobby
05-15-2008, 02:23 PM
Valid point. Maybe we can pay to ump their league/sectional/district/state/regional/national tournaments.

Just Pulin' Pork
05-15-2008, 02:41 PM
Valid point. Maybe we can pay to ump their league/sectional/district/state/regional/national tournaments.

Shoot why don't we throw some beer in with it on top of that!