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Rookie'48
04-17-2008, 01:22 AM
Is this scenario legal and/or ethical?

There is a Fri/Sat contest & a Sat/Sun contest only a few miles apart. A guy who is a CBJ wants to judge both contests BUT he is also a part time member and a good friend of a comp team. Could the CBJ come up to the first comp on Sat morning (with no fraternization with the teams) and do the judging, then help his "part time" team mates tear down the first site, load up the trailer, drive to the second comp & help set up while one of the full time team members stays for the (hopefully) awards?
The CBJ would help do the set up and/or prep then take off to a motel until the next morning when he would go DIRECTLY to the judge's tent and judge comp #2. He would, after the judging was over, help his friends do the tear down & loading of the trailer.
Or should said CBJ just say "fark it" & only judge the first comp & be a team member for the second comp?

ps - said CBJ would NOT wear a Judge's shirt or pin while performing non-judging duties.

I know that this is going to open up a chit pot of worms, but according to what I have read, I think it would be KCBS legal. Would it be ethical or would there be h_ll to pay?

slat
04-17-2008, 01:25 AM
What happens the day before or after judging is that person's own business. Nothing says that he can't do it as long as it's not the day of prior to judging.

Plowboy
04-17-2008, 01:31 AM
I see no issues helping a team set up and tear down, or even hanging out Friday night. I wouldn't participate in the team's prep or cooking.

Just Pulin' Pork
04-17-2008, 01:33 AM
Its legal but I would never put myself in that situation. If I was him I would just judge/ or compete. He can get a bad name for himself and his team if people see him doining that. My 2cents

Ford
04-17-2008, 06:38 AM
legal yes. But as already stated it's not what's ethical or legal it's what's people see. Could another team raise a question about the judge being impartial, yes. Could it cause a problem that results in that judge being asked to be a table captain instead of judging, yes. Could people talk about a team that has a judge in their pocket, yes.

I have no problem with it as I know the odds of getting a specific teams entry and how do they know fur sure it's their friends? I'ts too difficult but some people don't think the way I do.

So my advice is if you need to ask then somebody will say something. Either cook with the team or judge but don't do both. If you judge you can still party Friday night but party with multilpe teams not just one. And breakdown at the first is no problem as that contest is over.

YankeeBBQ
04-17-2008, 09:26 AM
If your helping this team tear down and set up then why don't you just cook the whole event with the team ?

Double D's BBQ
04-17-2008, 10:16 AM
I definitely see a problem with it.

Judges should try to refrain from all possible perceptions of impropriety.

Perception is reality especially when it comes to judges.

If in doubt don't do it!

Transformer BBQ
04-17-2008, 10:23 AM
I wouldn't have an issue with things right up until the guy arrives at contest number two. As soon as he sets up and ESPECIALLY PREP (you prep meat, you cooked at the event and on that team as far as I see it).

Judge contest one, don't talk to the team until judging is over, don't bee seen with them... don't hang out, have coffee, high five... Help them break down, be a team member for the second contest.

Don't get involved in technicalities with "well it was the day before"... and especially when you touch a teams food before turn in you are really pushing it.

DawgPhan
04-17-2008, 11:03 AM
Who cares...unless a team is hosting a judges only party on saturday AM, I could care less...1 judge isnt going to be able to thrown an event or anything...it makes no difference...now reps are a different story and reps have far more influence on a contest...Reps shouldnt be allowed to hang out with teams during any point in the weekend.

Roo-B-Q'N
04-17-2008, 11:11 AM
I don't see a problem with this at all. It is not goin g to effect the outcome of either contest. Can you tell how many people showed up in the spot next to you Friday of your last contest and how many were there Saturday morning?

paydabill
04-17-2008, 11:20 AM
I can go either way on this one. Myself - I would not do it. Remeber perception is law, and if you want to keep judging then you do not want to get black balled. If enough teams complained about this, even if it is not a technical rule viloation, then the CBJ would be mentaly black balled.

Transformer BBQ
04-17-2008, 11:24 AM
Lets expand the scenerio then. I bring 10 people with me, they help me set up friday, they prep all the meat I use at a contest, they start my cooker. At 11:50 they leave.

All of them come back the next day, head straight to the judges tent. You're ok with that?

I think Prepping meat makes you a team member, I have issues with a team member being a judge at an event that team is cooking at.

Just doesn't seem worth it to be so close to this line you need to even worry about this...

scottyd
04-17-2008, 01:56 PM
Nope not a problem at all, there for should be no big deal. Some might complain but it's really a crap shoot at what table your box lands at any how. I see no problem.

BBQ_Mayor
04-17-2008, 02:40 PM
I judge Mason City last year where a judge was remove from my table because of his relationship with the team. Apparently some teams had complained. And that is all it takes, if you don't feel conforatable with the CBJ judging one or both contests, then just talk to the rep. Personally, I don't see a problem with it.

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the second contest in question is not a KCBS sacationed event..A lot of times with these events, they take what they can get for CBJ's or judges period.

See ya this weekend Rookie and we can talk about it some more.

KC_Bobby
04-17-2008, 02:58 PM
Ray, It's on KCBS's schedule ... I assume it's sanctioned.

You cooking in either/both of these? We are planning on it.

Bentley
04-17-2008, 03:19 PM
I wouldn't participate in the team's prep or cooking.


That was all I was going to point out!

Great minds think alike...

BBQ_Mayor
04-17-2008, 04:31 PM
Ray, It's on KCBS's schedule ... I assume it's sanctioned.

You cooking in either/both of these? We are planning on it.

Sorry, i didn't even look. I just assumed it wasn't cause it's the first year.

Not going to this one, have a wedding to cater that weekend. Got to go where the sure money is.
My brother Jay will be going. Shotgun BBQ.

I would like to see the old Gator again. I sure miss her.

smokeandbeer
04-17-2008, 04:54 PM
I definitely see a problem with it.

Judges should try to refrain from all possible perceptions of impropriety.

Perception is reality especially when it comes to judges.

If in doubt don't do it!

I agree with Double D completely. Best to stay away from putting the wrong perception in people's minds. If you are a judge, then stick to that. I'm not even sure the teardown is a good idea. What if that team wins big and then other's see him helping them after. Put's a bad look on it IMO.