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StLouQue
04-03-2008, 12:58 PM
The 2008 Kick-Off Cookoff was my first; and I shall never forget her. Since then, I've applied to judge a dozen other comps between now and mid-October.

There were a couple 2008 changes mentioned on the prerecorded cd played during the judges meeting. These alleged changes are not apparent in the 2008 Rules .pdf. Unless I am mistaken, I'll swear I heard someone say that the same audio and/or script could be found on the KCBS website. If I did hear correctly, can anyone supply a link...because I've not found them.

Thanks

Bride of Roo(BQ'n)
04-03-2008, 02:19 PM
Details of the changes you heard please Steve....

Bigmista
04-03-2008, 02:25 PM
Defer coin toss choice to the second half, no more "force out" rule, no more 5 yard facemask penalty....

Hmmm...?

What...?

Oh wrong rule changes.

Sorry.

Westexbbq
04-03-2008, 02:59 PM
Not quite sure of what you speak but a couple of Lifo's just recently took the KCBS CBJ class last weekend I think; might check with Wannabebbqqueen and or Motoeric (if he's still around.:tongue:)

StLouQue
04-03-2008, 04:09 PM
I'll return to discussing these "changes" later this afternoon or evening when I have more time.

Meanwhile, may I assume that no one knows the whereabouts of the presentation audio or script on the KCBS website?

And Bigmista...am I missing the obvious, or is the new coin-toss deference rule not redundant?

QN
04-03-2008, 04:13 PM
The differences are primarily that there is now no pre-defined starting point for scoring; in the past all entries were deemed to be a 6, but now there is no starting point. Specific word definitions have now been added to the scorecard for each scoring number. 9 being excellent, 8 very good, 7 above average, 6 average, 5 below average, 4 poor, 3 bad, and 2 inedible.

QN
04-03-2008, 04:30 PM
Here is the text of the actual script of the CD that must be played. If the CD cannot be played for some reason then this must be read at the judges' meeting.
2008 KCBS Judge’s Meeting – Mandatory Reading
February 10, 2008 © 2008 The Kansas City Barbeque Society Page 1 of 3
This document or the audio copy of this document must be read or played for all judges at each KCBS sanctioned contest. All judges must attend this meeting and listen to the CD before they can judge.
Here are the Kansas City Barbeque Society Judging procedures for 2008
These procedures are intended to provide the standards you should use in judging this contest. Remember, as a KCBS judge, you are not judging by what you like, but you are judging to the standards defined by KCBS at this contest.
KCBS Sanctioning allows for blind judging only. Entries will be submitted in an
approved KCBS numbered container provided by the Contest Organizer. The container
shall be re-numbered by the KCBS Contest Rep or authorized personnel before being
presented to the judges.
Here are the rules:
1. Judges may not fraternize with teams on turn in day until conclusion of judging.
2. Judging will be done by a team of six persons who are at least 16 years of age.
Only judges, contest reps, and necessary support staff are allowed in the judging
area during the judging process. No other activities are permitted in the judging
area during the judging process.
3. Each judge will first score all the samples for appearance of the meat. The turn in
containers will then be passed around the table and each judge will place a sample
from each of the containers on to the appropriate box on the judging mat. The
judge will then score each entry for taste and tenderness/texture before moving on
to the next entry.
4. The scoring system is from 9 to 2. 9 being excellent, 8 very good,
7 above average, 6 average, 5 below average, 4 poor, 3 bad, and 2 inedible.
5. A score of (1) is a disqualification and requires approval by a Contest Rep.
Grounds for disqualification:
Unapproved garnish, sculptured meat, marked turn-in container,
Foreign object in container, judges not receiving a sample (less than 6 samples of
meat) and/or pooled sauce
6. Looking at your judging plate. The larger square is where you place your sample
from an entry tray. The smaller square is for the team number of that sample
from the entry tray. Make sure the sample on the larger square matches the
number in the smaller square from its entry box.
7. Looking at your judging slip. The square is where you place each number read
off in order by your table captain.
2008 KCBS Judge’s Meeting – Mandatory Reading
February 10, 2008 © 2008 The Kansas City Barbeque Society Page 2 of 3
8. Once all of the numbers are properly placed on each square, your table captain
will begin the appearance section on each entry. You will write down your
appearance score on each entry presented. There is no talking at the judging table
once the entries have been brought to your table.
9. Once all of the entries have been scored for appearance, the table captain will
then pass out the entry trays for you to take a sample. Make sure you place the
correct sample on the correct square. Once you have all of your samples on your
judging plate, you may begin with the first sample by judging taste and then
tenderness/texture. Once you have completely finished scoring the first entry,
you may move to the second entry and so forth. Please score carefully. You may
not go back and change any scores already recorded.
10. If you pick up a piece of meat and there are two or more pieces stuck together, do not shake the pieces loose, pull the pieces loose, or cut the pieces loose. Just put
them on your judging plate. If you do not get a piece of meat to judge, call this to
the attention of the Table Captain.
Additional things to remember:
Water will be furnished during the judging period.
No alcohol, carbonated beverages, or scented wipes are allowed during judging.
Smoking is not allowed in the judging area at any time.
Please do not sit with your spouse, significant other or family members.
Turn off cell phones and/or pagers. No photographing of the entries.
Do not take labels off the containers at any time. Do not sample from the volunteer table.
Do not remove any numbered container from the judging area. If you feel you need to
DQ an entry, please call your table captain over and quietly point out the discrepancy. If there is a problem they will alert the KCBS Rep for final decision.
Here are some helpful guidelines judging the four basic contest categories:
Chicken may be presented with or without the skin. It may also be presented with a
combination of dark and white meat or all one or the other. Properly smoked chicken will be moist and have a nice texture and any juice present should be clear. Smoked chicken has a tendency to produce a red coloring around the bone areas, especially in the thigh and leg meat. To some it gives the impression that is was undercooked. Always check the juices and if they are clear you will find the chicken is properly cooked. There may be a pink appearance to the breast meat if it has been cooked for some time, however, some cooks prepare their chicken in such a way the breast meat will remain white. Because of this do not judge chicken on its color. If presented with skin on you should at least taste the skin.
2008 KCBS Judge’s Meeting – Mandatory Reading
February 10, 2008 © 2008 The Kansas City Barbeque Society Page 3 of 3
Judging pork ribs can be very subjective. However, when judging competition ribs you
must consider a few factors. When sampling a properly cooked contest rib the area of the meat where the bite is taken should be pulled cleanly from the bone with very little effort. The exposed bone of a well cooked rib will often dry immediately. Ribs should be moist, flavorful and possess good texture. They can be presented with or without sauce. Ribs may be presented in single or multi bone presentation. Any questions should be directed to the KCBS Contest Representative. When a rib is overcooked most or all of the meat comes off the bone when sampled. Additionally the meat of an overcooked rib has a tendency to be mushy and have a poor texture.
Pork shoulder or Boston butt should be very tender. It should pull apart with very little effort, be moist and have good texture. Sliced pork is an acceptable entry. Pulled or chopped meat is also a suitable pork entry. With these types of entry checking for proper cooking is important. Pork can be easily overcooked to achieve maximum tenderness, which in turn makes the final product mushy. Mushy meat dissolves in your mouth with very little effort when chewing. Often the crusty dark outer surface, or bark, is included in the presentation. This is an acceptable part of the entry.
Brisket is potentially the toughest of the entries to cook properly. Moisture and
tenderness are two important characteristics to look for when judging this meat. Cooks may present brisket sliced, chopped, or pulled. Brisket will have a tendency to loose moisture quickly. Experienced cooks will take precautions to prevent brisket from drying out. Judges must evaluate this attribute as well as the tenderness of the product. One possible test of tenderness is the pull test. To test the brisket tenderness using this method, pick up the brisket and see how easily it will pull apart. The meat should break apart with little effort yet maintain a good texture. A well cooked brisket, when the slice is picked up and pulled should have some resistance and yet come apart without crumbling. As with pork, the meat should maintain a desirable texture. One final note, a smoke ring should not be taken in consideration when judging appearance because it can be artificially produced.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask at this time.

Roo-B-Q'N
04-03-2008, 05:02 PM
Here is a sticky from the top of the Competition thread that has the cooks handbook and judging procedures. As well as the link to the KCBS area http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13877

Says basically the same thing as above

Irrad8
04-03-2008, 07:21 PM
Here is a sticky from the top of the Competition thread that has the cooks handbook and judging procedures. As well as the link to the KCBS area http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13877

Says basically the same thing as above

Is that sticky current? Awhile back I looked and it wasn't.:cool: I know I could have gone and checked but I had a day from he** and already hitting the Jack and Cokes.:icon_smil

StLouQue
04-03-2008, 07:21 PM
Excellent. Thank you gentlemen.

From the script/cd:
10. If you pick up a piece of meat and there are two or more pieces stuck together, do not shake the pieces loose, pull the pieces loose, or cut the pieces loose. Just put them on your judging plate. If you do not get a piece of meat to judge, call this to the attention of the Table Captain.

And from the 2008 Rules & Regulations:
12. Each contestant must submit at least six (6) separated and identifiable (visible) portions of meat in a container. Chicken, pork and brisket may be submitted chopped, pulled, sliced, or diced as the cook sees fit, as long as there is enough for six (6) judges. Ribs shall be turned in bone-in. Judges may not cut, slice, or shake apart to separate pieces. (If there is not enough meat for each judge to sample, the shorted judge(s) will score a one (1) on all criteria, and the judges having samples will change the Appearance score to one (1).)


What I heard in the cd version was a considerable pause after "do not shake the pieces loose..." That pause was long enough that I believed what followed was a new sentence, permitting us to, "pull the pieces loose, or cut the pieces loose" Therefore, I thought that rule had changed. Seeing the script showed me that it had not.