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The Pickled Pig
02-17-2008, 06:56 PM
I admit the chicken pictured below wasn't great but what did Judge 4 see that repulsed him? Was it too shiny?

Judge 1 - 877
Judge 2 - 988
Judge 3 - 888
Judge 4 - 544
Judge 5 - 999
Judge 6 - 988

http://www.thepickledpig.com/ppcontestresults/2008greatbend/images/chicken.jpg

MilitantSquatter
02-17-2008, 07:01 PM
Ah... the mysteries of judging... never fails to amaze.

Looks like your scores overall were right there.

To be honest though, from the picture I would have probably leaned toward 7 in appearance. Nothing bad, but nothing stood out to me as "WOW".

Nice job on the parsely bed. nicely done.

Roo-B-Q'N
02-17-2008, 07:11 PM
I too would have given this a 7. They look charred in places, and not uniform in size. This could have been tempered if they were facing the same direction. Maybe not as noticable anyway.

I think you got a judge that didn't like the looks of it and scored you down all over. This is where the table captain should have stepped up and talked with the judge.

SP
02-17-2008, 07:13 PM
Ahh judges. It alway amazes me that they look at it and say it looks below average write down a 5 then taste it and say yup it tasted like it looks. Rarely do you see someone that get a high score in apperence and then says it taste bad, or the other way around. Its almost always similar scores across the board.

HoDeDo
02-17-2008, 07:23 PM
Nothing bad there. I would have scored above average 7 or 8. Having said that, maybe some super anal judge didn't like the color ( I really like a darker/redder myself; but would not judge down based on the color of yours), or thought some of the little nubs on the chicken were fat, or poorly trimmed? I think the parsley bed looks good, so dont think it could have been that...

Luckily that was thrown out.

Solidkick
02-17-2008, 07:38 PM
I see nothing that constitutes a 5 there.....

Ron_L
02-17-2008, 09:20 PM
That's not a 5 in my book either. I think 7 is about right.

watertowerbbq
02-17-2008, 09:37 PM
7 sounds right. maybe he/she thought some of the sauce looked "splotchy". no way it was a 5. maybe if they didn't look at it very well, they may have thought it was charred. don't know. could just have been a crappy judge. :(

Bbq Bubba
02-17-2008, 10:27 PM
I too would have given this a 7. They look charred in places, and not uniform in size. This could have been tempered if they were facing the same direction. Maybe not as noticable anyway.

I think you got a judge that didn't like the looks of it and scored you down all over. This is where the table captain should have stepped up and talked with the judge.

Even tho the score was tossed, this is where a captain should have stepped and said something, table captain's not doing their job again if you ask me!
How the fark do you allow a 4 when everyone else scored 8 and 9?? :confused:

Pig Headed
02-17-2008, 10:57 PM
As a cbj, I would have to say that a 5 is totally out of line. I would probably give a 7.

Ford
02-18-2008, 06:10 AM
7 or maybe 6 for average.

What did judge 4 see - who knows. Maybe 4 didn't like thighs and scored all the boxes low. The parsley bed is great so don't change that. I agree with all the comments on trimming and uniform size. As a general rule of thumb about half the thigh ends up on the cutting room floor. I boil up mine for dog treats and stock.

I really think you have a bunch of old school judges at this contest in KS/MO and that's why so many 9-8. A box like this in the old system would score all 9-8's. I'd be asking the KCBSto instruct these judges if they supplied their CBJ #'s.

Ford
02-18-2008, 06:16 AM
[/color]How the fark do you allow a 4 when everyone else scored 8 and 9?? :confused:
4 for taste and tenderness is an easy answer. One piece was tough. Could have been over/under cooked. Could have been real dry. With the other meats we can sample our entry but all we can do is test an entire peices and pieces are not all created equal.

And maybe that judge hates thighs and gave everybody a 4 that turned thighs. Or maybe that judge hates heat in the sauce or wants heat. As cooks we do the best we can and what happens, happens. Judging is purely at the whim of the tastes of the individual tasting the meat.

Now I do agree that the rep should talk with this judge but the score stands in any event.

Spydermike72
02-18-2008, 06:31 AM
Like Ford said, based on appearance I see a 6 or 7. Nothing below average. The size of the different pieces is what caught my eye, other than that I like the reddish color, and I like the small char on it. But then again I was not judging and every judge has their own taste.

Sawdustguy
02-18-2008, 06:43 AM
Paul, I would give you a solid 8. If I could make a suggestion for next time, trim the thighs so they all are about the same size.

tonto1117
02-18-2008, 06:50 AM
With the new scoring system that takes place as of March 1st(see below), on appearence, which is all I can comment on, I would give it a 6.

9 – Excellent
8 – Very Good
7 – Above Average
6 – Average
5 – Below Average
4 – Poor
3 – Bad
2 – Inedible
1 – Disqualified

The Pickled Pig
02-18-2008, 08:36 AM
Thanks for all of the feedback. This chicken was not going to be a winner regardless of what side of the bed judge 4 got up on. We knew it when it went in the box. The pieces were not trimmed properly and were not uniform in shape or size, the skin was too chewy, and the meat was a little tough. I wasn't really disappointed with the scores, just curious as to what Judge 4 saw that caused the exceptionally low score. It's possible he got a bad piece of chicken but I think it's more likely he let whatever bothered him about the appearance carry over to the other criteria.

billm
02-18-2008, 10:00 AM
chiming in a bit late but...
we went through the same thing then noticed appearance scores became better and more consistent when we started trimming our thighs so they looked uniform..
also agree that little char marks turn some judges off..not sure why..
BTW ..a 5 for this is ridiculous ..lowest should have been 6 IMO

Scottie
02-18-2008, 10:20 AM
I was DAL at the Winter Burn Bill. With a score of 125. My standard method for doing chicken which has scored in the top 10 of the Royal. Sometimes it's the judges... As when I looked at my scores from the contest, you could see that one table scored a lot lower than the others...

billm
02-18-2008, 10:26 AM
ive seen and eaten your chicken before Scottie..its definately not DAL

Scottie
02-18-2008, 10:45 AM
Ah, the joys of comp cooking Bill...

the worst part was it was "on" that day too.... 8-)


Scottie

billm
02-18-2008, 11:01 AM
ive questioned some of our wins as well as our losses :)
any given day on any given table I guess

Scottie
02-18-2008, 11:10 AM
yep, I don't complaint when I get a first and I know they are wrong... My indicators (i.e. my girls and my sister) were devouring my stuff last weekend. That usually means it's good, as they usually don't want to eat it... 8-)

billm
02-18-2008, 11:15 AM
i do know we had some exceptionally good chicken at our table...

tonto1117
02-18-2008, 11:58 AM
The chicken at out table was very good. One was outstanding in appearence, taste and tenderness..it had both thighs as well as some mighty tasty sliced pieces. There also was a box at our table that had a piece that when bit into, was questionabe as to being cooked enough. A white paper towel showed dark pink. Brian said it was a close call and was the judges decision. Was decided not to DQ it.

billm
02-18-2008, 12:25 PM
I dont think we ever met ..what table were you at?

tonto1117
02-18-2008, 12:45 PM
I was at the 4th table (table captian was a wonderfull woman in a light purple shirt who's name escapes me now:confused:) And my husband Walt was at the first table. Where were you??

billm
02-18-2008, 12:59 PM
second to last table..had a black brethren shirt on
you might be thinking of Marsha who was a table captain.. my wife was judging at your table as well if Marsha was your table captain

tonto1117
02-18-2008, 01:27 PM
second to last table..had a black brethren shirt on
you might be thinking of Marsha who was a table captain.. my wife was judging at your table as well if Marsha was your table captain

Yes, I believe that was her name. I remember your wife,:wink: as there were only two woman at our table.

smoke-n-my-i's
02-18-2008, 01:45 PM
It looks good in my book.... a little more uniform on the pieces, and color might have helped... but who knows.

I have said it before and I will say it again. There should be a feedback form, for when you get a below average score, they should put a one or two word comment for us. Simple as: salty, not done, mushy, too sweet, dry, tough skin, etc..... then we would know why one judge scored low. Like already said, maybe that one piece was not done enough, or something.... who knows which one. Maybe he/she was tired of judging or was expecting more.... it would be interesting to see the score from others that came from the same table/judge.

ModelMaker
02-18-2008, 03:59 PM
With the new scoring system that takes place as of March 1st(see below), on appearence, which is all I can comment on, I would give it a 6.

9 Excellent
8 Very Good
7 Above Average
6 Average
5 Below Average
4 Poor
3 Bad
2 Inedible
1 Disqualified


You know, I was thinking 7 all along the time I was reading, and then you go and put names on the numbers and I immediatly went to a 6.
I HATE names hooked up with the numbers. It's going to change how my head works vs how I read. They should have just left it be...
ModelMaker

tonto1117
02-18-2008, 04:27 PM
You know, I was thinking 7 all along the time I was reading, and then you go and put names on the numbers and I immediatly went to a 6.
I HATE names hooked up with the numbers. It's going to change how my head works vs how I read. They should have just left it be...
ModelMaker

I hear ya. I don't make the rules, just follow em'.... don't shoot the messenger.