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Ford
02-09-2008, 12:32 PM
Taste of Grand Rapids just sent out their applications and they are charging $125 for KCBS members and $150 if you do not have a KCBS member on your team. Anybody else heard of other contests doing this?

watertowerbbq
02-09-2008, 12:52 PM
not yet. real shame. :(

Just Smokin' Around
02-09-2008, 01:04 PM
Haven't seen one yet and I have about 5 or 6 entry forms sitting on my desk. Curious, how much was the event last year? Did they raise it $25 for non-members or reduce it $25 for members. Does anyone know? If they discounted $25, then I see that as a positive thing.

Roo-B-Q'N
02-09-2008, 01:18 PM
Marshalltown, Ia and Lincoln Nebraska are both doing it. Lincoln however will be charging non-KCBS members $50.00 more.

Ford
02-09-2008, 01:40 PM
Haven't seen one yet and I have about 5 or 6 entry forms sitting on my desk. Curious, how much was the event last year? Did they raise it $25 for non-members or reduce it $25 for members. Does anyone know? If they discounted $25, then I see that as a positive thing.
raised the price for non members

CajunSmoker
02-09-2008, 01:43 PM
I have apps from Hammond, La and Columbus, Ms and neither of them are doing it.

BBQchef33
02-09-2008, 01:56 PM
Why cant they say...........

$150 entry fee.
$25 discount for KCBS members.



sheesh....

Just Smokin' Around
02-09-2008, 02:15 PM
Why cant they say...........

$150 entry fee.
$25 discount for KCBS members.

sheesh....

That would make too much sense (and they probably didn't think about it). I think the message being sent was charge more for non-members. Much better marketing for KCBS if organizers gave a discount to members. KCBS has a great marketing firm.

CajunSmoker
02-09-2008, 02:22 PM
Why cant they say...........

$150 entry fee.
$25 discount for KCBS members.



sheesh....


That would require someone with tact:icon_blush: a virtue that don't seem to be in abundance:roll:

Roo-B-Q'N
02-09-2008, 02:25 PM
Why cant they say...........

$150 entry fee.
$25 discount for KCBS members.



sheesh....

That would make too much sense (and they probably didn't think about it). I think the message being sent was charge more for non-members. Much better marketing for KCBS if organizers gave a discount to members. KCBS has a great marketing firm.


This was their intent and they fumbled it with their email and poor planning on the issue. It is hard for me as a kcbs member to say hey I did this contest last year for $125. and this year I am doing it for $125. what a great benefit.
However it is a perception thing and having a clear and concise set of guidelines for the organizers would have gone alot further. 150 entry, KCBS discount $25.00 would have given the perception of a benefit.
Yes it is a hair splitting issue, but one that has eaten a lot of time of a lot of people.
However as an organizer, that was not what I had issues with.

Jorge
02-09-2008, 02:30 PM
Just to play Devil's Advocate. How many organizers would have a problem losing a little over 16% (in the event that $25 was knocked off a $150 entry fee) of the money coming in from KCBS teams? For those without deep sponsorship pockets, or those benefitting a charity.... That percentage might be tough to manage without impacting the prize pool in some cases.

I've read the issues on organizers not having a way to effectively verify who is/isn't a member in good standing. Personally I'm not sure that this is a good idea to begin with. That being said, I'm not ready to point a finger at any organizer that is unable to offer a true 'discount'.

Roo-B-Q'N
02-09-2008, 02:41 PM
That was my biggest issue with the program. They could not tell us how to verify membership.
That and this year the organizers got the money next year it would go back to KCBS.
As an organizer I am worried about my sponsors exposure, teams enjoyment and judges knowledge, not the benefit program of the sanctioning body I hired to provide me a service.

stlgreg
02-09-2008, 02:54 PM
I think Salem, Ill is doing it too.
Racine, WI is going to do it.

I am not doing it on my contest. I need the teams

arlieque
02-09-2008, 03:52 PM
There will be no real discount as you know it. If a contest is going to charge less it you are a member than they will go up first! I will be running 5 or 6 contest and do not plan on doing this and will try and keep the event management out of it. As an organizer it would be best to treat all teams equal, doesnt that sound better! You let this pass and the next thing will be charging judges to judge?

Sawdustguy
02-09-2008, 04:18 PM
Poobah and I were discussing this very same subject the other day. The bottom line is to get more teams to become members. The way they presented it was to charge the non members more. This got a very bad reaction from everyone. It would have been much better if it were to be presented as contest fee xxx with a $25 discount for members. If the extra fees from non members sweet'ins the prize pot so be it. It was a matter of perception. I personally don't have a problem with it. Some NEBS contests have discounts for NEBS members. Nobody has a problem with NEBS doing it. It sounds to me like it's winter, and it's just something else to bitch about to pass the time.

jminion
02-09-2008, 04:35 PM
Let's get real here, none of these contests are KCBS's. If they were then KCBS would be paying organizers to run then. KCBS is hired to officate the contest with a standardized set of rules for a fee. How does that give KCBS the right say you must be a member to compete. If the organizer has money problems does KCBS bail them out? KCBS has no ownership here and without it all they can do is raise fees to the organizer. Raise the fees then the organizer may have to come to conculsion they may want someone else to officate for them.

I'm not anti KCBS but this is just lazy and for the benefit of a contract that they signed that was a bad deal. Give the teams a reason to join KCBS.

Presenting this as a benefit to KCBS teams with a $25 discount is smoke and mirrors.

smooookin
02-09-2008, 10:01 PM
For me it is not a money issue. Now, I have never competed but was planning to get my feet wet this year as time allowed, However I can guarantee I will not spend a red cent toward competing if I am charged additional fees because i am not a member of the "club". From what I have been reading here is sounds to me like KCBS is in disarray. I have to say, only from what I have read here leads me to believe that KCBS is more worried about increasing revenue than recruiting members. There are plenty of other comps out there to enter that dont appear to have all of the politics tied to it.
Actually it is really quit sad, I would love to be active in the sport/hobby and had been thinking about joining the KCBS, but I refuse to feed someones greed to do it. Just my .02 and I may be totally off base.

ThomEmery
02-09-2008, 10:41 PM
I will charge more for a few of my smaller contests
But not for KCBS
$36 more to make Head Cook a member of the CBBQA

Sawdustguy
02-09-2008, 11:29 PM
For me it is not a money issue. Now, I have never competed but was planning to get my feet wet this year as time allowed, However I can guarantee I will not spend a red cent toward competing if I am charged additional fees because i am not a member of the "club". From what I have been reading here is sounds to me like KCBS is in disarray. I have to say, only from what I have read here leads me to believe that KCBS is more worried about increasing revenue than recruiting members. There are plenty of other comps out there to enter that dont appear to have all of the politics tied to it.
Actually it is really quit sad, I would love to be active in the sport/hobby and had been thinking about joining the KCBS, but I refuse to feed someones greed to do it. Just my .02 and I may be totally off base.

Who is greedy? The KCBS wouldn't get any of the extra $25 collected from non member teams. If I am not mistaken, in your neck of the woods, the KCBS sanctions most if not all sanctioned contests. While I strongly disagree with what the KCBS is suggesting, it wouldn't affect our team one bit because we are members. We love cooking BBQ contests and that extra $25 would never stop us from cooking a contest if we were non members. We would just take a CBJ class and become members that way. As a newby team you should do that any way to understand how you are being judged. If you decide not to compete because of all this foolishness I think you never wanted to compete much to begin with.

smooookin
02-09-2008, 11:37 PM
Who is greedy? The KCBS wouldn't get any of the money collected from non member teams.


Then why should the KCBS dictate the price? Seems to me that the one running the comp should have discretion to do what they want. KCBS or not.
The KCBS would get the membership fee when folks that pay the extra get tired of it and join up. Smells like extortion.

Sawdustguy
02-09-2008, 11:58 PM
Then why should the KCBS dictate the price? Seems to me that the one running the comp should have discretion to do what they want. KCBS or not.
The KCBS would get the membership fee when folks that pay the extra get tired of it and join up. Smells like extortion.

You are absolutely right. This is not a mandate right now. It is up to the organizer if he wants to comply or not with the request. I don't see why it's extorsion. When I went to watch my nephew play football in high school this fall they charged $5 for students and $10 for non students. I guess that was extortion also then.

Sledneck
02-10-2008, 12:08 AM
If this is the concept then i dont get the problem, let me ezplain as dumb as possible and see if i am correct.

U R KCBS member ,you pay to get in competition

U R NOT KCBS member , you pay $25 more than the guy above and get membership to KCBS and get in the competition

smooookin
02-10-2008, 12:20 AM
If this is the concept then i dont get the problem, let me ezplain as dumb as possible and see if i am correct.

U R KCBS member ,you pay to get in competition

U R NOT KCBS member , you pay $25 more than the guy above and get membership to KCBS and get in the competition


Maybe I am wrong, but the way I understand it is you pay the 25 to get in the comp. If you want to be a memeber you pay the membership fee. Yes you can beat the 25 if you join before you enter the comp.

Maybe I am just grumpy, But if KCBS doesnt see any of the money, what do they care. It is nothing more than pushing for membership.

I need another drink I guess.

Sawdustguy
02-10-2008, 12:22 AM
If this is the concept then i dont get the problem, let me ezplain as dumb as possible and see if i am correct.

U R KCBS member ,you pay to get in competition

U R NOT KCBS member , you pay $25 more than the guy above and get membership to KCBS and get in the competition

Steve,

You are almost right. If you are a member you pay for the contest and cook. If you are not a member you join the KCBS for $35 and never have to worry about paying an extra $25 again.

.

Sledneck
02-10-2008, 12:23 AM
Thats the way that NEBS supposedly does it. I cant say if thats true cause i paid extra at Bluesaque last year and it did not happen even after repeated emails but heck thats story for another day

Sledneck
02-10-2008, 12:26 AM
Steve,

You are almost right. If you are a member you pay for the contest and cook. If you are not a member you join the KCBS for $35 and never have to worry about paying an extra $25 again.

What really peeves me in this instance is here is a guy who is not a KCBS member complaining about the extra $25. He lives in Kansas City where there are tons of contests. He is threatening not to start cooking contests over this when we in the North East have to travel 100's of miles to a contest because we love competition BBQ. It just don't add up. Over a measely $35 to join the KCBS. I doubt he will ever become a CBJ if he learns that half of the fee goes to him joining the KCBS.
Thanks Guy for clearing that up, i was under the impression that when you paid extra you were automatically recieve KCBS membership with the added fee. Hmmmmmm. I like this site better when we spent all of our time doin in my pants threads. Thsi KCBS chatter is really start to bum me out.Cant wait until contest season starts around here.

Sledneck
02-10-2008, 12:33 AM
Would the moderators please move all of the kCBS talk over to the BOD portion of the forum that was recently created so we can all get back to the business of talking about getting drunk at contests...Please

Sawdustguy
02-10-2008, 12:38 AM
Thanks Guy for clearing that up, i was under the impression that when you paid extra you were automatically recieve KCBS membership with the added fee. Hmmmmmm. I like this site better when we spent all of our time doin in my pants threads. Thsi KCBS chatter is really start to bum me out.Cant wait until contest season starts around here.

Steve,

I never thought I would miss posts about your 13th place chicken or doin in you pants. This KCBS stuff is getting me down when all I want to do is cook contests. I don't do politics very well. Maybe we should start a thread about how a thermopen could double as a rectal thermometer in a pinch. I bet that will get spirits up.

Sledneck
02-10-2008, 12:43 AM
Steve,

I never thought I would miss posts about your 13th place chicken or doin in you pants. This KCBS stuff is getting me down when all I want to do is cook contests. I don't do politics very well. Maybe we should start a thread about how a thermopen could double as a rectal thermometer in a pinch. I bet that will get spirits up.I dont know about rectal but it is so bizarre that you mention that. My youngest was home sick on Mondaywitha very high fever. Laura couldnt find the thermometer so i whipped out my super accurate blue thermapen. Let me put it to you this way, i barely got out of the room in time otherwise it almost was used a rectal:eek:

jminion
02-10-2008, 12:46 AM
Look MMA gets paid off of new membership (growth) above the levels of last year.
KCBS has-had a natural growth rate each year. So MMA get's paid. MMA get's paid when they bring in a sponsor but that has not gone well todate. MMA will get paid off growth in contest revenues. So this year, organizers this year you get to keep the money and if a team cooks more than one contest it makes it cheaper to join (forced membership).

The easiest way to get new members is give them benefits for joining. The idea that sommeones is getting a free ride when they don't join is wrong thinking IMO. Organizers own contest and pay for sanctioning (a services). They have the right hold an OPEN contest (open to anyone willing to pay the entry fee to the organizer) it does not belong to KCBS. KCBS want to organize a contest, get the prize and do all the work associated with running a contest, they can require you be a member to compete.

Give members a benefit and talk to them, ask them what they think, be responsive to the membership. People would join, but this move is punk.

Sawdustguy
02-10-2008, 01:00 AM
Look MMA gets paid off of new membership (growth) above the levels of last year.
KCBS has-had a natural growth rate each year. So MMA get's paid. MMA get's paid when they bring in a sponsor but that has not gone well todate. MMA will get paid off growth in contest revenues. So this year, organizers this year you get to keep the money and if a team cooks more than one contest it makes it cheaper to join (forced membership).

The easiest way to get new members is give them benefits for joining. The idea that sommeones is getting a free ride when they don't join is wrong thinking IMO. Organizers own contest and pay for sanctioning (a services). They have the right hold an OPEN contest (open to anyone willing to pay the entry fee to the organizer) it does not belong to KCBS. KCBS want to organize a contest, get the prize and do all the work associated with running a contest, they can require you be a member to compete.

Give members a benefit and talk to them, ask them what they think, be responsive to the membership. People would join, but this move is punk.

I agree with you Jim, but some people here are going overboard.

Sledneck
02-10-2008, 01:02 AM
The extra $25 fee is in my pants

BBQchef33
02-10-2008, 01:10 AM
Would the moderators please move all of the kCBS talk over to the BOD portion of the forum that was recently created so we can all get back to the business of talking about getting drunk at contests...Please

sorry sunshine.. don't fit in that forum... its general membership stuff, not 'for the board". :cool:

Sledneck
02-10-2008, 01:11 AM
sorry sunshine.. don't fit in that forum... its general membership stuff, not 'for the board". :cool:
thanks troy black

BBQchef33
02-10-2008, 01:14 AM
ouch

Sawdustguy
02-10-2008, 01:18 AM
ouch

Phil, I think you need your temperature taken.:eek::icon_blush:

jminion
02-10-2008, 01:52 AM
recall Blackhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cus/e_1_51.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm117MSUS)

Phil, I think you need your temperature taken.:eek::icon_blush:

Thermometer is Sledneck's pocket.







http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb098&pp=ZNxdm117MSUS (http://smiley.smileycentral.com/download/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb098_ZNxdm117MSUS&utm_id=7926)

tonto1117
02-10-2008, 01:58 AM
[quote=jminion;557562]recall Blackhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cus/e_1_51.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm117MSUS)



Thermometer is Sledneck's pocket.











Funny chit Jim!!:lol::-P:lol:quote]

scottyd
02-10-2008, 06:44 AM
Look MMA gets paid off of new membership (growth) above the levels of last year.
KCBS has-had a natural growth rate each year. So MMA get's paid. MMA get's paid when they bring in a sponsor but that has not gone well todate. MMA will get paid off growth in contest revenues. So this year, organizers this year you get to keep the money and if a team cooks more than one contest it makes it cheaper to join (forced membership).

The easiest way to get new members is give them benefits for joining. The idea that sommeones is getting a free ride when they don't join is wrong thinking IMO. Organizers own contest and pay for sanctioning (a services). They have the right hold an OPEN contest (open to anyone willing to pay the entry fee to the organizer) it does not belong to KCBS. KCBS want to organize a contest, get the prize and do all the work associated with running a contest, they can require you be a member to compete.

Give members a benefit and talk to them, ask them what they think, be responsive to the membership. People would join, but this move is punk.


Good stuff here Glad to see that it's not all about the money.:wink:

Roo-B-Q'N
02-10-2008, 09:47 AM
Good stuff here Glad to see that it's not all about the money.:wink:

Actually it is all about the money. Force the contest organizer to charge more for non members and while yes thi year it goes to organizer it will not next year.

If a team decides to skip the 25 fee they join the KCBS and KCBS gets new members and MMA gets money.

Hold a CBJ class in conjunction (or not) with you contest, KCBS gets member, MMA gets money.

What I have been trying to put across is that the contest I organize IS NOT KCBS's contest. It is sanctioned by KCBS because I asked them to come in and provide me a service.

As a business owner would you do business with a vendor that told you you had to increase your costs to your customers if they were not members of their, the vendors, group?

Sledneck
02-10-2008, 09:50 AM
As a business owner would you do business with a vendor that told you you had to increase your costs to your customers if they were not members of their, the vendors, group?
Great point!

scottyd
02-10-2008, 09:56 AM
Actually it is all about the money. Force the contest organizer to charge more for non members and while yes thi year it goes to organizer it will not next year.

If a team decides to skip the 25 fee they join the KCBS and KCBS gets new members and MMA gets money.

Hold a CBJ class in conjunction (or not) with you contest, KCBS gets member, MMA gets money.

What I have been trying to put across is that the contest I organize IS NOT KCBS's contest. It is sanctioned by KCBS because I asked them to come in and provide me a service.

As a business owner would you do business with a vendor that told you you had to increase your costs to your customers if they were not members of their, the vendors, group?


I was being sarcastic in my post above. It seems that is all about the cash with KCBS and the said Marketing company. These things just get my blood boiling. Money Money Money don't they know we the cooks spend enough, Look at what we have invested in this hobby. yes I don't have to have the toys I have. but I choose to have them to make things a little easier for myself. I for one will compete this year but it will be my fair well tour. I will not feed a money pit that does not bring me joy and happiness.

tony76248
02-10-2008, 10:03 AM
I think it may cause a first timer to possibly balk. Then again, most will probably pay it. The sad part is that this isn't supposed to be about an organization making money, it's about a hobby and good friends and having fun.

Roo-B-Q'N
02-10-2008, 10:04 AM
I just realized you were being saracastic after I posted.

Ford
02-10-2008, 11:49 AM
I think it may cause a first timer to possibly balk. Then again, most will probably pay it. The sad part is that this isn't supposed to be about an organization making money, it's about a hobby and good friends and having fun.
Keep in mind that the KCBS is a not for profit so they should be coming close to break even each year not making over $50K in 2005.

Spydermike72
02-10-2008, 12:07 PM
Keep in mind that the KCBS is a not for profit so they should be coming close to break even each year not making over $50K in 2005.

Did they donate any of that $50k to any charities ??

Ford
02-10-2008, 12:12 PM
they are now a C4 so they do not need to donate to charity. The KCBS is a club/organization and the C4 is a way to incorporate without paying taxes. MY guess is the GLBBQA is the same. If so do you have a corporate seal and do you knwo about reporting financials, etc.

However they do donate to cookers care (came out before profit was calculated) and that is a charity in the KC area.

Spydermike72
02-10-2008, 12:16 PM
they are now a C4 so they do not need to donate to charity. The KCBS is a club/organization and the C4 is a way to incorporate without paying taxes. MY guess is the GLBBQA is the same. If so do you have a corporate seal and do you knwo about reporting financials, etc.

However they do donate to cookers care (came out before profit was calculated) and that is a charity in the KC area.

OK, I thought the KCBS was a 501C3, the GLBBQA is a C3. We have a CPA helping us out with the financials...

jminion
02-10-2008, 12:42 PM
Mike a c-3 is a charity and from a organizional point a view maybe not the best way to go. The IRS rules on a c3 are tougher than c-4 and get's audited more often.

The budget for KCBS this year is set to end up with $30K in bankable cash at the end of the year. Any organization does need to operating funds in the bank, that is as best practices as a company.

The MMA deal bench marks were set for membership levels and other targets at the end of 06. So any increases from 06 levels MMA gets paid on for 07. Now we are in 08 and MMA will again get paid on increases but not from a new bench mark set in 07 but from the 06 levels again or double dipping on the 07 increases. As you can see this contract will get heavily backend loaded and coul if no large sponsors are brought to the table take most if not all of the cash in reserve over 4 years run of the contract.

It was plain to see that most of the Board did no homework on what it should cost or how a contract should be setup for this type of business proposal. I called a number of people I knew that hired marketing firms to get a feel for what this type of contract should cost. The advise I recieved was to run away from this contract and run fast, I voted that way.

Spydermike72
02-10-2008, 12:56 PM
Hey Jim, thanks for the info that is good stuff to know. I agree with the no homework statement. This MMA deal looks shadier and shadier every time I hear something about them...

CajunSmoker
02-10-2008, 01:06 PM
I just joined the KCBS last month (haven't even received my # yet) so I've been reading this thread with a lot of interest.

I joined because I thought it would be good to support the organization that was sanctioning the contests that I was interested in cooking at and it lowered the cost of a judjing class I was planning to attend. It had nothing to do with MMA or politics being played at the BOD level.

If MMA is getting paid on membership increases over previous levels, then what are they doing (MMA) to increase membership? I haven't seen any membership drives or any forum banner ads touting how membership is a benefit:confused:. Are they just handing money out without MMA doing anything for them?

As far as the $25 increase for non-members, I personally don't see where it should hurt anyone. If you don't want to pay it, don't cook. If you don't want to charge it at your contest, then don't have it sanctioned by KCBS. There are other sanctioning bodies out there and I bet they would love to get their proverbial foot in the door in KCBS country.

I do think that this chitstorm could have been avoided by simply telling contest organizers to raise the cost of the contest by $25 and then give a $25 discount to KCBS members, instead of saying you are charging non members $25 more.

Maybe as a newbie to the KCBS I just don't understand, but that's my $.02 on it.

jminion
02-10-2008, 01:23 PM
If MMA is getting paid on membership increases over previous levels, then what are they doing (MMA) to increase membership? I haven't seen any membership drives or any forum banner ads touting how membership is a benefit:confused:. Are they just handing money out without MMA doing anything for them?

As far as the $25 increase for non-members, I personally don't see where it should hurt anyone. If you don't want to pay it, don't cook. If you don't want to charge it at your contest, then don't have it sanctioned by KCBS. There are other sanctioning bodies out there and I bet they would love to get their proverbial foot in the door in KCBS country.

I do think that this chitstorm could have been avoided by simply telling contest organizers to raise the cost of the contest by $25 and then give a $25 discount to KCBS members, instead of saying you are charging non members $25 more.



The $25 entry fee increase for non members is the plan for now. It is a forced membership. KCBS provides a service, they have no ownership on contests. The contests are not KCBS contests they belong to organizers that by the way hired KCBS to do a job.

It is in the best interests of the teams to join so they can vote on Board members and have at least a small say on where KCBS is headed. But if you are voting for a Board member because he or she is friend without any skillsets to bring to the Board you can have the situation you have now.

Just my opinion.

arlieque
02-10-2008, 01:31 PM
Jim, did I see that they get 13% of mew memberships? i am going to be running three judging classes this year at my contests. MMA isnt doing anything to help out in the process but they will get paid. Doesnt it make more sense to pay the organizers and teachers of the class> Maybe we should just stop till they do something for the association. How much money did they bring to the KCBS in 2007?

CajunSmoker
02-10-2008, 02:18 PM
The $25 entry fee increase for non members is the plan for now. It is a forced membership. KCBS provides a service, they have no ownership on contests. The contests are not KCBS contests they belong to organizers that by the way hired KCBS to do a job.

It is in the best interests of the teams to join so they can vote on Board members and have at least a small say on where KCBS is headed. But if you are voting for a Board member because he or she is friend without any skillsets to bring to the Board you can have the situation you have now.

Just my opinion.

OK, I didn't know that the additional $25 paid for a membership. I thought it was a penalty for non membership and would be assesed for every event you cooked until you ponied up for a membership.

jminion
02-10-2008, 02:20 PM
Arlie
Any new members no matter how they are brought to the table will be used in the formula to pay MMA. KCBS has a natural growth, my contension was that anything above the natural growth would be what MMA get's paid on but that is not how the contract is worded.

So far the monies from MMA to KCBS are very small but in the first year that was to be expected. 2008 will tell the story to a large degree. I hope MMA gets the job done and brings some large sponsors, if that doesn't happen KCBS can be hurt greatly because of this contract.

Roger
The $25 does not pay any membership this year or next. The logic is teams will join if they are going to cook more than one contest. The indication was that 2009 organizers would have to pay an extra $25 per team that were not members as a fee increase.

So far 8 contests have stated they will charge the extra $25, if teams stay away I got to believe those contests will re-think that position. KCBS sanction about 250 contests a year, with 8 stating they will charge the fee this program doesn't look like a success.

BanditBBQ
02-10-2008, 02:58 PM
Right, wrong or indifferent, some of the contests are upcharging non-members (whatever the wording on the application may be) due to the promised extra income that could be generated for their cause and/or charity; not only that, thinking about it from the organizers point of view, KCBS has promised extra promotion for the contests that have this 'non-member' fee attached...for some of the smaller contests, this could be very beneficial. Continuing to play devil's advocate, wouldn't it make for a better business decision for a contest to up-charge non-members (keeping fees the same for members) AND get more promotion for their money?

If/when KCBS decides to make this up-charge permanent (and keep the extra for themselves) then the contest organizers I have talked with will do some serious consideration as to whether they want to continue to be associated with KCBS. If this type of action increases KCBS membership, so be it. If it can help a contest to raise extra money for prize pay-outs, or to help that contest pay to make for a better event, so be it. If KCBS raises their sanctioning fees, without providing additional services, cest la vie.

Just my thoughts.

Carpe 'Que,
Jim

gordo
02-11-2008, 09:49 AM
Just looking down the road..

Hope the day doesn't come when KCBS starts charging the promoters more
to sanction their contest, unless a certain percentage of their teams are KCBS members..

From what Ive read this last month...not as far fetched as it sounds..:roll:

HoDeDo
02-11-2008, 05:12 PM
This was their intent and they fumbled it with their email and poor planning on the issue. It is hard for me as a kcbs member to say hey I did this contest last year for $125. and this year I am doing it for $125. what a great benefit.
However it is a perception thing and having a clear and concise set of guidelines for the organizers would have gone alot further. 150 entry, KCBS discount $25.00 would have given the perception of a benefit.
Yes it is a hair splitting issue, but one that has eaten a lot of time of a lot of people.
However as an organizer, that was not what I had issues with.

It's a benefit for new members.... They will save the money. Us existing members just get to scratch our heads - and wonder how long it will take for KCBS to take that money, instead of allowing the organizers to keep it.:rolleyes:

If the core issue is that sanctioning costs more than what they currently charge -- something else will have to be done anyway.

HoDeDo
02-11-2008, 05:26 PM
Jim - I agree with you 100%. Great discussion in the thread.

jminion
02-11-2008, 05:46 PM
Hey Jim, thanks for the info that is good stuff to know. I agree with the no homework statement. This MMA deal looks shadier and shadier every time I hear something about them...

Mike
When in discussions with a company for a contract there is give take from both sides and you try to get the best contract you can. MMA has done nothing wrong, IMO the Board as a whole didn't think this through and make the best deal for KCBS. Time will tell.

While talking to other marketing firms I ask one if they thought it was agood deal, their answer was "for MMA it's a great deal".

Scottie
02-12-2008, 12:22 AM
I thought there was another bid by a KC marketing company? Or was it a done deal because of the non-conflict of issue, so it didn't matter anyway?

I've complained about this for a year now and finally others are starting to pay attention. It's a shame more didn't pay attention to this when all of this stink started last year at the banquet...

Ford
02-12-2008, 07:57 AM
This is a little different than what was being said in earlier postings and emails to organizers.

KCBS Clarifies Entry Fee Suggestions

February 11, 2008

At the February board meeting, the KCBS Board of Directors discussed in detail the recent suggestion for contest organizers to raise entry fees for non-KCBS teams. To help clarify the request, the Board would like to re-emphasize that this suggestion is totally OPTIONAL by organizers. After listening to organizer concerns at the Annual Banquet, there is NO intent on making this a mandatory program in 2009.

Like many of our new efforts, changes and modified programs, the Board simply wants to study the impact of this optional process in 2008. While it was intended to provide a benefit to the many KCBS teams competing at KCBS events, the Board recognizes that it may present challenges for organizers. So after the 2008 season, we plan to study this voluntary program to see if it deserves future consideration or not. We extend our appreciation to those events who are testing the program in 2008, and we apologize for any confusion due to our previous communications on the matter.

Scottie
02-12-2008, 10:16 AM
Someone might want to tell Rich Berry, as he still has it on the GR application. I can't see him chancing loosing contestants with that, if they aren't required to pay the extra fee.

Roo-B-Q'N
02-12-2008, 10:44 AM
This is a little different than what was being said in earlier postings and emails to organizers.

KCBS Clarifies Entry Fee Suggestions

February 11, 2008

At the February board meeting, the KCBS Board of Directors discussed in detail the recent suggestion for contest organizers to raise entry fees for non-KCBS teams. To help clarify the request, the Board would like to re-emphasize that this suggestion is totally OPTIONAL by organizers. After listening to organizer concerns at the Annual Banquet, there is NO intent on making this a mandatory program in 2009.

Like many of our new efforts, changes and modified programs, the Board simply wants to study the impact of this optional process in 2008. While it was intended to provide a benefit to the many KCBS teams competing at KCBS events, the Board recognizes that it may present challenges for organizers. So after the 2008 season, we plan to study this voluntary program to see if it deserves future consideration or not. We extend our appreciation to those events who are testing the program in 2008, and we apologize for any confusion due to our previous communications on the matter.


As you know I was at this meeting and realized well into Merl's motion that what he and I discussed regarding this were not the same thing and we were not on the same page.

That being said, they did discuss this somewhat and the main issue they talked about was not stopping this program altogether because the 8 contests that they knew were doing this would feel slighted as they already had material printed. They didn't want throw them under the bus so to speak due to thier mistakes. So they decided to call it a study and let those that want to do so do it.

With the above statement, I think they not only threw those organizers under the bus, the BOD got in and drove the bus over them by letting all the world know that it is only a test and it is optional for the organizers. If I were not a KCBS member and saw this I would challenge the organizer and tell them it is mandatory or required so why are you charging me extra?

Ford
02-12-2008, 10:49 AM
Someone might want to tell Rich Berry, as he still has it on the GR application. I can't see him chancing loosing contestants with that, if they aren't required to pay the extra fee.
Rich knows and he has a call in to Carolyn. Here's part of an email to me from Rich. Now if he doesn't get extra promotion then I think he will be upset.

Furthermore, KCBS is promising additional promotion for those who participate, which is important to me. Remember, I had a contest that had 23 fewer participanting teams last year, so I will take all the extra positive publicity that I can get.

benjet
02-12-2008, 02:12 PM
Until they state what the added promotional benefits are, maybe someone should consider a reverse? $25 additional for any KCBS member team...that way the contest organizer has additional $ to spend on contest promotion.

This really boils down to what % of contestants (or team-mates and related friends, family etc,) are KCBS members.

Do we really think that the % of non-members contestants are high enough to make that much of a difference? I would guess this answer varies greatly in respect to region, and would guess that the overall average nationwide (using all KCBS contests and all contestants - say in 2007) isn't as high as one might think.

BanditBBQ
02-13-2008, 10:15 AM
This is a little different than what was being said in earlier postings and emails to organizers.

KCBS Clarifies Entry Fee Suggestions

February 11, 2008

At the February board meeting, the KCBS Board of Directors discussed in detail the recent suggestion for contest organizers to raise entry fees for non-KCBS teams. To help clarify the request, the Board would like to re-emphasize that this suggestion is totally OPTIONAL by organizers. After listening to organizer concerns at the Annual Banquet, there is NO intent on making this a mandatory program in 2009.

Like many of our new efforts, changes and modified programs, the Board simply wants to study the impact of this optional process in 2008. While it was intended to provide a benefit to the many KCBS teams competing at KCBS events, the Board recognizes that it may present challenges for organizers. So after the 2008 season, we plan to study this voluntary program to see if it deserves future consideration or not. We extend our appreciation to those events who are testing the program in 2008, and we apologize for any confusion due to our previous communications on the matter.

Interesting that KCBS was quick to send an email to me (as the past organizer of a contest) requesting that the up-charge be made, but when they decide to NOT make it mandatory in 2009 (as they previously stated) I have yet to hear from them.

I have contacted the new organizer for the Salem, IL cook and informed him of the new information...entry fees for all teams will remain at last year's fee, regardless of KCBS membership.

Carpe 'Que,
Jim

mds2
02-13-2008, 10:46 AM
Marshalltown, Ia and Lincoln Nebraska are both doing it. Lincoln however will be charging non-KCBS members $50.00 more.

This really sucks. I was really looking forward to the Lincoln contest, since it is in my hometown, but I may just skip it now.

I really dont feel that I should be forced to pay more to compete since I am not a KCBS member. I really dont see the benefit of joining since I only do 4 or 5 contests a year. The only benefit there is for me now is to pay less to get into a contest, but to me that is borderline extortion.

I hope the KCBS sees that this is going to reduce the number of new teams competing. And hopefully someone at GOBS will realize that this a stupid thing to do.

Ford
02-13-2008, 04:19 PM
They got it right for now and a nice communication. And they finally tricked on to the idea of an early bird discount to get some of you fence sitters off the pot.

Dear Taste of Grand Rapids Participants:

Based on a Kansas City Barbecue Society (KCBS) directive last Friday confirming that it is optional for contest organizers to charge a higher fee to non-KCBS members, the "Taste of Grand Rapids & Barbecue Competition" will NOT assess an additional registration fee of $25 to non-KCBS members. Our fees will remain at $125 per team for our July 25-26 Grand Rapids contest, provided that teams send in their payment and registration forms prior to Monday, June 23rd. For the "last minute" entrants who register on or after June 23rd, 2008, we will be raising our fees to $150 per team for registrations received after June 23rd. We are e-mailing you a modified Registration Form with the above changes.

I look forward to seeing you at the 10th annual "Taste of Grand Rapids & Barbecue Competition" in Grand Rapids on July 25th and 26th, 2008

Bride of Roo(BQ'n)
02-13-2008, 05:51 PM
This really sucks. I was really looking forward to the Lincoln contest, since it is in my hometown, but I may just skip it now.

I really dont feel that I should be forced to pay more to compete since I am not a KCBS member. I really dont see the benefit of joining since I only do 4 or 5 contests a year. The only benefit there is for me now is to pay less to get into a contest, but to me that is borderline extortion.

I hope the KCBS sees that this is going to reduce the number of new teams competing. And hopefully someone at GOBS will realize that this a stupid thing to do.

You lost me at the end, GOBS doesnt have anything to do with the Lincoln contest...or the KCBS fees, only slight correlation that GOBS Pres (Sonny Ashford) is the listed Rep for the Lincoln contest...Did I miss something?

mds2
02-13-2008, 06:58 PM
You lost me at the end, GOBS doesnt have anything to do with the Lincoln contest...or the KCBS fees, only slight correlation that GOBS Pres (Sonny Ashford) is the listed Rep for the Lincoln contest...Did I miss something?

Whoops, sorry. I thought that this was being put on by GOBS, since they have done the Lincoln contests in the past.

Who is putting this one on?

Greendriver
02-13-2008, 07:15 PM
This really sucks. I was really looking forward to the Lincoln contest, since it is in my hometown, but I may just skip it now.

I really dont feel that I should be forced to pay more to compete since I am not a KCBS member. I really dont see the benefit of joining since I only do 4 or 5 contests a year. The only benefit there is for me now is to pay less to get into a contest, but to me that is borderline extortion.

I hope the KCBS sees that this is going to reduce the number of new teams competing. And hopefully someone at GOBS will realize that this a stupid thing to do.

why wouldn't membership be worth that if you didn't even cook! you get the bullsheet bla bla bla