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Roo-B-Q'N
02-07-2008, 09:29 AM
Folks looks like KCBS is at it again. I just recieved this from Carol Whitebook as I am sure most of you have. Regardless of if you voted for Carol or not Troy Black hass spearheaded a campaign to make memberships votes not count. I believe it is also time for a recall of several board members starting with Mr. Black.


Dear Friends,
I need your help, and I need it today! I did not believe that it would not be without personal sacrifice to serve you on the Board of Directors. As you will see, it took no time for a small group on the board to implement a plan against my election to the Board of Directors. I was extremely flattered that 43% of the entire membership who voted, cast a vote for me, placing me in first place. I want to thank you for your vote and your support. I see this as a mandate to speak out for you. But I need you to speak out for me. Please tell the Board you want to determine who to vote for.

A few days ago a motion was filed to take your right to elect the candidates, as you desire to the Board of Directors. It is called a "Nepotism" rule. As you know, generally and in the State of Missouri Nepotism prohibits the appointment of hiring of persons, where you have elected authority over such a person. This is not the goal of this motion.

The Nepotism rule put before the Board this Friday (Feb 8, 2008 evening is to prevent husband and wife, or parents and children from being elected, by you the members and voters. Apparently, there is an opinion you the membership cannot decide for yourself and make a good choice.

Both in the United States and the State of Missouri a husband and wife or parent could serve their Country or State as elected officials, while being a husband and wife or a parent or child.

KBCS has had a long history of husband and wife teams who have well served the Board of Directors. I am not asking you to go against what you believe. But there are 866 members who believe it was not a problem for me to run, to be elected and to serve you the membership at the same time as Merl.

I have introduced my promised motion to allow members across the country, to have equal access, the same as the members who live in the Kansas City area, by use of access to the telephone conference system in order to reach out to the Board, either to listen or speak at a Board meeting.

Please voice your opinion to the Board. I have not attended my first meeting, before the plan of action to neutralize what I stand for began. Please tell the board what you think. Please write the Board and voice your opinion.

Protect your right to vote and elect the candidates who will represent you.

Carol Whitebook
( KCBS Board emails below)

Below is a copy of the motion placed on the agenda for Friday Feb. 8, 2008 at 7:00 p.m.[/font]

In a message dated 2/5/2085:49:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, learn2q@gmail.com (learn2q@gmail.com) writes:
In light of objections by a number of members questioning two family members sitting on the KCBS Board at the same time, I propose the following added to the agenda for a vote in Friday's board meeting.

I propose that we adopt the following nepotism policy and that it be affective as of January 1, 2009 or at the next change in board of directors.

KCBS Board Nepotism Policy

Be it resolved that no family members shall serve on the Kansas City Barbeque Society Board of Directors at the same time, during any term.
Family members are defined as a board member’s parent, child, spouse, domestic partner, brother, sister, grandparent, and any step relationships within the preceding categories.
Respectfully Submitted,
Troy Black

PLEASE WRITE TO THE KCBS BOARD
TELL THEM YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION!

KCBS Board of Directors
cwhitebook@kcbs.us (cwhitebook@kcbs.us), voltraye@bellsouth.net (voltraye@bellsouth.net), dharwell@kcbs.us (dharwell@kcbs.us), carolyn@kcbs.us (carolyn@kcbs.us), lmullane@kcbs.us (lmullane@kcbs.us), mlake@kcbs.us (mlake@kcbs.us), mwhitebook@kcbs.us (mwhitebook@kcbs.us), pkirk@kcbs.us (pkirk@kcbs.us), rgray@kcbs.us (rgray@kcbs.us), sownby@kcbs.us (sownby@kcbs.us), tblack@kcbs.us (tblack@kcbs.us), wlohman@kcbs.us (wlohman@kcbs.us), eroith@kc.rr.com (eroith@kc.rr.com),

Ford
02-07-2008, 09:58 AM
I posted the motion in the Board section but deleted it when I saw this post.

Looks to me like they want to take away our votes and put in John Markus. I see a power play going on here and I for one don't like it. I wrote the KCBS already. I hope thay have 500 emails by COB today. Here's part of what I wrote.

"I canít believe than anybody could support this resolution. Certainly itís something that could only be implemented for future elections. Otherwise it would disenfranchise the voters who voted for Carol and may otherwise have voted for somebody in 5th or lower and it would change the results significantly. If this is implemented and Carol is not allowed to join the BOD then I would expect a new elections to take place not just move down one spot. Weíre talking 866 votes that would have gone to other individuals and thatís over 40% of all voters. "

Scottie
02-07-2008, 10:10 AM
I believe what it targets is Merl. As I believe he is up for re-election next year and this new "Merl" rule is designed to keep him off the Board.

It's my ball and I am going to take it with me. It's like a bunch of kids is all I have to say.

Ford
02-07-2008, 10:19 AM
Hadn't thought about it imapcting Merl but I see your point. Now that's even worse. It will kill the KCBS if they continue like this and we'll all lose.

BanditBBQ
02-07-2008, 10:21 AM
I just sent an email to all the board members asking their thoughts on this proposed policy...let's see what comes back.

Carpe 'Que,
Jim

Plowboy
02-07-2008, 10:24 AM
Interesting.

Wasn't the KCBS started by a husband and wife? (rhetorical)

What about Team Nepotism? If you cook on the same team, you can't be on the board.

This implies that people share a brain, which they don't.

Scottie
02-07-2008, 10:24 AM
Yeah Ford. The way I see it. They will "put up" with Merl and Carol for one year and then either Carol has to resign or Merl can't run...

This is all a bunch of sour grapes. If they didn't like it, they should of changed the rule before Carol was elected (with the highest numbers in the election I might add). A lot has to be said for that and the membership.

Jim, if you are expecting a response. I hope you called yourself Mr. Blue. Cause you'll be waiting a long time.... ;-)

BBQ Grail
02-07-2008, 10:24 AM
I'm a member because I wanted to vote for Phil. Not a great deal of benefit otherwise for me. That being said I hate to see Boards of organizations run wild like this one appears to be.

If Carol got 43% of all votes cast it shouldn't be hard to organize a recall. It's the only way members can take their organization back after it's been hijacked.

kcpellethead
02-07-2008, 10:27 AM
I understand the concerns you folks have about this motion. Please keep two things in mind. First, it's a motion to be considered at the February board meeting. It is not a KCBS policy. Second, even if passed, in my opinion it could not be retroactive to effect Carol & Merl Whitebook.

Continue to send your message to the board to voice your views as members, however be clear to the board that you know this is an issue to be decided on in the next meeting. So far, the few e-mails I have received indicate that the writers believe this is a new policy. It is not.

Rod

Plowboy
02-07-2008, 10:27 AM
Yeah Ford. The way I see it. They will "put up" with Merl and Carol for one year and then either Carol has to resign or Merl can't run...

This is all a bunch of sour grapes. If they didn't like it, they should of changed the rule before Carol was elected (with the highest numbers in the election I might add). A lot has to be said for that and the membership.

Jim, if you are expecting a response. I hope you called yourself Mr. Blue. Cause you'll be waiting a long time.... ;-)

I'm not surprised that some complained about this. You'll always find someone with an opinion. Your point about the highest vote count does/should bring a lot of weight to the decision. Some will complain, but MANY endorsed the election through their votes knowing full well what the relationship was.

tonto1117
02-07-2008, 10:28 AM
Unbeleivable and sneaky(timing wise) to say the least. Well folk's the writing is on the wall for all to see how things really roll over there in the hall of secrecy. Like Ford and Scottie said, this is a power play to oust Merl come next year....I'm sure because they don't approve of him making the "dealings" of the BOD more accesible to it's members.

Jorge
02-07-2008, 10:29 AM
Fair discussion so far. This topic also has the potential to get heated. If it gets heated and stays within the rules of this forum that's fine too. I'm providing a link to the forum rules for those that may not have read them, or those that may want to take a moment to read them again. The bottom line is to keep it friendly, if possible. No personal attacks, and no flames.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14685

Scottie
02-07-2008, 10:38 AM
Hard to not take you seriously, when I look at your picture... ;-)

Roo-B-Q'N
02-07-2008, 10:41 AM
I believe what it targets is Merl. As I believe he is up for re-election next year and this new "Merl" rule is designed to keep him off the Board.

It's my ball and I am going to take it with me. It's like a bunch of kids is all I have to say.


After re-reading her email, I agree with you Scottie. Troy and a few other board members don't like Merl (that is no secret) and so this is their attempt to get rid of him.

CharlieBeasley
02-07-2008, 10:49 AM
Sorry I did email this to all board members!

Here was my 2cents!
I did not vote for a husband and wife members of the board because I did not want to water down the vote I placed. However the vote is in and counted and we now have a Husband and Wife team on the board GREAT We VOTED it should stand and not be discounted as this is a family oriented community where we have many cooks, judges, and active members who are married to their best friends and should be allowed to work together in what they Love BBQ!
Do not insult my integrity or theirs by gracing the below request! Also we need to question the submitter to his ethics in this matter!

I propose that we adopt the following nepotism policy and that it be affective as of January 1, 2009 or at the next change in board of directors.

KCBS Board Nepotism Policy

Be it resolved that no family members shall serve on the Kansas City Barbeque Society Board of Directors at the same time, during any term.
Family members are defined as a board member’s parent, child, spouse, domestic partner, brother, sister, grandparent, and any step relationships within the preceding categories.
Respectfully Submitted,
Troy Black
Charles Beasley

Bride of Roo(BQ'n)
02-07-2008, 10:49 AM
I understand the concerns you folks have about this motion. Please keep two things in mind. First, it's a motion to be considered at the February board meeting. It is not a KCBS policy. Second, even if passed, in my opinion it could not be retroactive to effect Carol & Merl Whitebook.

Continue to send your message to the board to voice your views as members, however be clear to the board that you know this is an issue to be decided on in the next meeting. So far, the few e-mails I have received indicate that the writers believe this is a new policy. It is not.

Rod
In light of objections by a number of members questioning two family members sitting on the KCBS Board at the same time, I propose the following added to the agenda for a vote in Friday's board meeting.

"I propose that we adopt the following nepotism policy and that it be affective as of January 1, 2009 or at the next change in board of directors.

KCBS Board Nepotism Policy

Be it resolved that no family members shall serve on the Kansas City Barbeque Society Board of Directors at the same time, during any term.
Family members are defined as a board member’s parent, child, spouse, domestic partner, brother, sister, grandparent, and any step relationships within the preceding categories.
Respectfully Submitted,
Troy Black"




Rod thanks for your input, but now Im really confused, the motion states adoption of POLICY with change to be effective next January...so yes its a motion as you stated and I doubt it will get resolved tomorrow night, but is in fact to adopt policy ...right?

KC_Bobby
02-07-2008, 10:57 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong ... Troy's the one with his hand in the MMA cookie jar right?

jminion
02-07-2008, 11:04 AM
KCBS Board Nepotism Policy
In light of objections by a number of members questioning two family members sitting on the KCBS Board at the same time, I propose the following added to the agenda for a vote in Friday's board meeting.
I propose that we adopt the following nepotism policy and that it be affective as of January 1, 2009 or at the next change in board of directors.

Be it resolved that no family members shall serve on the Kansas City Barbeque Society Board of Directors at the same time, during any term.
Family members are defined as a board members parent, child, spouse, domestic partner, brother, sister, grandparent, and any step relationships within the preceding categories.
Respectfully Submitted,
Troy Black

Merl and Carol will not be the first husband and wife to be on the Board at the same time, it has been the case a couple of times over the years. BUT it seems that not only do the members not need to know what is going on, the great unwashed are not bright enough to choose Board members.
If Troy's motion were the case from the start, let's see would Gary and Carolyn been able to play the roles they did?
This move is to limit Merl's ability to run for a second term on the Board. Merl has pushed the Board in directions that many on BOD have not wanted to go. The reason you now can get a copy of the agenda and sign up to speak at a Board meeting is because of the work Merl has done.
Half plus 1 of the last Board saw no problems in an e-mail smear campaign to try to keep Carol off the Board. Carol recieved 43% of the total vote but the members don't know what's good for KCBS so let's make a rule to limit any opposition voice on the Board.
As a Board member I was limited by rule to what I could publicly say about policies the Board was going to make or did make, there is a group of Board members that want what they want, open discussion with member input is not something they want to deal with.
If you liked the amount of information and the voice you have with KCBS in the past then say nothing but if as members of KCBS you would like a voice in the direction KCBS is headed let the Board know how you feel about this motion.
Respectfully Submitted,
Jim Minion
Here is the Board members e-mail addresses.

copy and paste and let them know how you feel
cwhitebook@kcbs.us, voltraye@bellsouth.net, dharwell@kcbs.us, carolyn@kcbs.us, lmullane@kcbs.us, mlake@kcbs.us, mwhitebook@kcbs.us, pkirk@kcbs.us, rgray@kcbs.us, sownby@kcbs.us, tblack@kcbs.us, wlohman@kcbs.us, eroith@kc.rr.com,

tonto1117
02-07-2008, 11:18 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong ... Troy's the one with his hand in the MMA cookie jar right?

From my understanding it was Mr Troy Black that had a hissy fit and resigned last year when it looked like the MMA might not be approved. A month later stating he really didn't mean it.

paydabill
02-07-2008, 11:19 AM
I really can not believe this is worth this much time over. I mean serisouly as FARK.COM would put in the header - Haveing solved all other major problems the BOD is now tryign to change voter wishes.

WOW - is all I can say.

arlieque
02-07-2008, 11:42 AM
Your right, it takes the voting away from KCBS members. It might as well just be a good ole boys club again. I have asked many times for the bylaws, a financial report and many other items. I finally got the by laws after years of asking, but nothing else. Why is everything sure a secret? What do we not deserve to know? This is crazy! I have asked who the letters and emails are from and were told they dont think they can say who wrote them, another secret? If the people dont want the membership to know who they are it should not be a issue to them. This board needs to get back to management of KCBS and let the members vote in who they want.

jminion
02-07-2008, 12:18 PM
Sorry I did email this to all board members!

Here was my 2cents!
I did not vote for a husband and wife members of the board because I did not want to water down the vote I placed. However the vote is in and counted and we now have a Husband and Wife team on the board GREAT We VOTED it should stand and not be discounted as this is a family oriented community where we have many cooks, judges, and active members who are married to their best friends and should be allowed to work together in what they Love BBQ!
Do not insult my integrity or theirs by gracing the below request! Also we need to question the submitter to his ethics in this matter!

I propose that we adopt the following nepotism policy and that it be affective as of January 1, 2009 or at the next change in board of directors.

KCBS Board Nepotism Policy

Be it resolved that no family members shall serve on the Kansas City Barbeque Society Board of Directors at the same time, during any term.
Family members are defined as a board memberís parent, child, spouse, domestic partner, brother, sister, grandparent, and any step relationships within the preceding categories.
Respectfully Submitted,
Troy Black
Charles Beasley

Charles
Based on that idea had this been a rule from the start Gary and Carolyn could not have done the work they did. Carolyn could have never been the Ex Director. This is to keep merl from running for re-election.

butts a fire
02-07-2008, 12:20 PM
I do not agree with the proposed policy and I have let my feeling be heard through emails to all of the board members I really hope everyone who has a feelings about this or any other issues lets their voice be heard. For or Against It doesn't matter to me if you feel that something is unjust or just you should let the board members know how you feel if they do not get feedback from members they will have no idea on how we feel about the topics they are discussing.

CharlieBeasley
02-07-2008, 12:25 PM
Jim I understand the implications. Present and future. I just hope that they kill the thought completely for now and next year as I see this as a family and participate as a family and hope it stays family oriented. It appears wrong to me. We have an elected board and we have a say I do not care if they are looking our for the world of BBQ if their dog runs next if he can make it better for those of us who are members! Thanks

Butcher BBQ
02-07-2008, 12:32 PM
If you are Pro or Con it must be sent in today to voice your concern, they have the BOD meeting Friday.

BBQchef33
02-07-2008, 12:43 PM
I understand this is a proposal, I also see it as a witch hunt. I do however understand concerns of nepatism, but also see KCBS and BBQ as family oriented. The organization was founded by 2 family members and they are the ones that made KCBS.


I am working on a letter to KCBS now.. and please... 490+ of you voted for me.. I ask PLEASE type up a letter and send it to the KCBS board of directors. Even if its just a single sentence, send them something NOW.

Click this link to fire up your email client with the address loaded.

click here (cwells@kcbs.us:rgray@kcbs.us;wlohman@kcbs.us;tbla ck@kcbs.us;dharwell@kcbs.us;pkirk@kcbs.us;mlake@kc bs.us;lmullane@kcbs.us;sownby@kcbs.us;mwhitebook@k cbs.us)


or cut and paste this: cwells@kcbs.us;rgray@kcbs.us;wlohman@kcbs.us;tblac k@kcbs.us (cwells@kcbs.us:rgray@kcbs.us;wlohman@kcbs.us;tbla ck@kcbs.us);dharwell@kcbs.us;pkirk@kcbs.us;mlake@k cbs.us;lmullane@kcbs.us;sownby@kcbs.us;mwhitebook@ kcbs.us

timzcardz
02-07-2008, 12:44 PM
What exactly is a "Policy"?

Who is eligible or not to run for and/or sit on the board of directors would be covered under the Constitution and Bylaws? You can't legally institute a "policy" that would be in conflict with the Constitution and Bylaws. The Constitution and Bylaws itself would have to be amended the specific mechanism and requirements for doing so would be found within.

Sledneck
02-07-2008, 12:53 PM
I feel sick to my stomach after reading all of this. No other way to put it.

Plowboy
02-07-2008, 12:54 PM
The root of nepotism rules is the fear of offering power or control to people who are assumed to be like minded. In the truest sense, it is offering concessions to family members. This really isn't the case since Merl didn't elect Carol to the board. The members did.

This could be a slippery slope if passed. Like minded people come in different forms: teammates, geographic regions, etc. There have been more complaints over a longer period of time that too many BOD members are from the Midwest. Why hasn't that been addressed before this?

motoeric
02-07-2008, 12:55 PM
Just a thought, would an online petition help?

Eric

Plowboy
02-07-2008, 12:56 PM
How about an online poll?

Would you re-elect Troy Black?

Sledneck
02-07-2008, 12:57 PM
Why hasn't that been addressed before this?
It has been, 3 NY guys ran fro BOD and none of them won.

jminion
02-07-2008, 01:02 PM
It seems Mr Black does want the motion to be considered but does not want his name to public information as the person who wrote the motion. Great way to do business.

Muzzlebrake
02-07-2008, 01:03 PM
Who is eligible or not to run for and/or sit on the board of directors would be covered under the Constitution and Bylaws? You can't legally institute a "policy" that would be in conflict with the Constitution and Bylaws. The Constitution and Bylaws itself would have to be amended the specific mechanism and requirements for doing so would be found within.

exactley, very good point. in my experience I have found that they are written in such a way that the requirements for change have some sort of extended time frame written into them so that changes to the electoral process cannot be done at just one meeting.

Plowboy
02-07-2008, 01:03 PM
It has been, 3 NY guys ran fro BOD and none of them won.

I thought it was four: John, Phil, Clint, and Steve.

My point is that the members have been more loudly calling for geographic representation over nepotism issues. If Troy is truly responding to the complaints of the members, he's not listening closely enough. Seems like that is a ratification that more members want over nepotism. That's my point.

Muzzlebrake
02-07-2008, 01:06 PM
I guess I am missing something here, I just dont get how it takes the vote away form anyone

I have a number of issues with the whole thing but I dont see that as one at all

Jorge
02-07-2008, 01:12 PM
I guess I am missing something here, I just dont get how it takes the vote away form anyone

I have a number of issues with the whole thing but I dont see that as one at all

Some, if not many, people took the initial email that is quoted in the first post of this thread to be aimed at removing Carol Whitebook from the board. Others, I think correctly, believe that if approved the motion would either prevent Merle from running for office again...or force Carol to resign.

Sledneck
02-07-2008, 01:13 PM
I thought it was four: John, Phil, Clint, and Steve.

My point is that the members have been more loudly calling for geographic representation over nepotism issues. If Troy is truly responding to the complaints of the members, he's not listening closely enough. Seems like that is a ratification that more members want over nepotism. That's my point.
I didn't consider myself part of the 4 cause i unofficially dropped out when i did not answer the questionnaire. Lets just say Clint & poohbah were elected , would they fall under the nepotism rule? they are brothers aren't they?:wink:

DawgPhan
02-07-2008, 01:14 PM
I guess I am missing something here, I just dont get how it takes the vote away form anyone

I have a number of issues with the whole thing but I dont see that as one at all


I guess the original train of thought was that this was targeted at Carol who was just elected. Removing her makes all those votes not count...now that it has been a little more clarified I dont know that it will be removing anyones votes, but just that it might be removing someone's ability to vote for who they want to vote for...

It should prove interesting to see this played out...

ModelMaker
02-07-2008, 01:24 PM
My message to the board...

Good Day All,
I am responding to the upcoming discussion regarding nepotism on the KCBS BOD. I being a member in good standing voted in the BOD election last month. I chose not to vote for Mrs. Whitebook for the simple reason being I did not think adding Mr. Whitebooks wife was in my interest of spreading geographical representation to the board. However 43% of the voting membership disagreed with me and voted her in garnering the most votes of all candidates.
This is the essence of a democracy which this entity is and MUST be recognized as such. My view is this motion must be voted down and the election results honored.
To those of you who would continue on with this obvious personal back dooring of the whishes of this body, you must realize there will be no chance of you ever retaining your seat on the BOD.
Thank you for your time.
Ed Hartman
Member # 15736


I received this response from Mr. Black within minutes of sending my e-mail...

Ed,
Thanks for you interest on this issue.


There is nothing in the policy being discussed that would prevent any elected director from serving their term as elected.
Troy

Ford
02-07-2008, 01:25 PM
I feel sick to my stomach after reading all of this. No other way to put it.
And to think you ran for the BOD. I ran 2 years ago and didn't get elected. At the time I felt both bad and good. Since then I have said thanks to all those people that voted that I did not get into this mess.

KC_Bobby
02-07-2008, 01:26 PM
I received a reply from one of the board members thanking me for voicing my input.

I like that!

Ford
02-07-2008, 01:31 PM
The root of nepotism rules is the fear of offering power or control to people who are assumed to be like minded. In the truest sense, it is offering concessions to family members. This really isn't the case since Merl didn't elect Carol to the board. The members did.

This could be a slippery slope if passed. Like minded people come in different forms: teammates, geographic regions, etc. There have been more complaints over a longer period of time that too many BOD members are from the Midwest. Why hasn't that been addressed before this?
My platform when I ran 2 years ago was to revamp the election process and setup 3 regions in the country. That way 1 person from each region could get elected in that year for the 3 year term plus the highest 2nd place vote getter became a BOD member as well. Still 4 per year and 3 year term. I didn't get elected. Guess most people wanted things to stay the way they were. And now look how it's changed.:eek::eek::twisted:

ZBQ
02-07-2008, 01:35 PM
Here is my letter to the BOD.


Dear Board of Directors,

I would like to express my opinion about the proposed Nepotism Policy.

This is the text of the proposal that I have read.

KCBS Board Nepotism Policy
In light of objections by a number of members questioning two family members sitting on the KCBS Board at the same time, I propose the following added to the agenda for a vote in Friday's board meeting.
I propose that we adopt the following nepotism policy and that it be affective as of January 1, 2009 or at the next change in board of directors.

Be it resolved that no family members shall serve on the Kansas City Barbeque Society Board of Directors at the same time, during any term.
Family members are defined as a board members parent, child, spouse, domestic partner, brother, sister, grandparent, and any step relationships within the preceding categories.
Respectfully Submitted,
Troy Black

After reading this text I was shocked and saddened that this obsession that we all love has degenerated to this point.

One of the most important values and assets that KCBS BBQ Competitions possess is being family oriented and fostering camaraderie among people from all walks of life who enjoy good food and good clean fun.

This is one of the first things I picked up on when I strolled from site to site when I visited my 1st competition as a spectator. Everyone was friendly and competitors were helping each other out with different things and most importantly, I felt warmly welcomed by those that I talked with. These things are what laid the foundation for me to become serious about BBQ and were also what drew me to compete and ultimately, the core reasons that I joined KCBS.

If we adopt these kinds of policies, we risk tearing our BBQ community/family apart at its seams.
How far will this Nepotism Policy reach?
The BOD today, individual teams tomorrow?
How many husband and wife teams are there in KCBS who have made monumental contributions to our wonderful obsession? I can think of quite a few right off the top of my head.
I read about family members in the Bull Sheet each and every month.
Why do they do it? Because itís a family activity that can be enjoyed by the entire family, children included. It also builds friendships that span the entire country and even to other countries as well.

These are qualities that are sorely lacking in most of todayís activities.

Family, one of the core assets of the KCBS.

As a paid KCBS member I ask that you not adopt this policy.

Respectfully Submitted,
Neil Zizleman
KCBS member #22374 and CBJ #22374

Muzzlebrake
02-07-2008, 01:35 PM
Some, if not many, people took the initial email that is quoted in the first post of this thread to be aimed at removing Carol Whitebook from the board. Others, I think correctly, believe that if approved the motion would either prevent Merle from running for office again...or force Carol to resign.

I guess I can see that ....

some of the issues I have with the whole thing are, the motion itself I think is out of order for a number of reasons.

I also think that this really is a matter for the BOD and it is things like this that we expect them debate and hash out after we elect them. As far as I am aware most motions require some sort of discussion and then a vote, let them hammer this out. Voice your opinion, sure, but by all means let your duly elected representatives do what you put them there for.

BanditBBQ
02-07-2008, 01:41 PM
Just an update...

So far, I have heard back from Rod and Merl in response to my email to the BOD. Rod posted his thoughts earlier on this forum. Merl's response was as expected and just. I have yet to hear from anyone else on the BOD.

Carpe 'Que,
Jim

Arlin_MacRae
02-07-2008, 02:00 PM
Being naive, I can throw this out for consideration:

Why do we need BS (back-stabbing) politics in an organization developed around the enjoyment of BBQ???

Riddle me that.

Pig Headed
02-07-2008, 02:02 PM
I have emailed the BOD with my objections to the proposal.

Plowboy
02-07-2008, 02:21 PM
Being naive, I can throw this out for consideration:

Why do we need BS (back-stabbing) politics in an organization developed around the enjoyment of BBQ???

Riddle me that.

It's Presidential election season... BS Politics is in the air, Arlin. :wink:

CharlieBeasley
02-07-2008, 02:31 PM
Rod Gray has responded that he received it and would consider it as they discussed it!

willkat98
02-07-2008, 02:34 PM
As a loyal KCBS member and certified judge, I'll just say this.

If the true motive for this policy is to remove a viewpoint from the board, whether through a non re-election, or re-election with a spousal quitting, that my friends, is twisting of rules to get what you want. Call it what you want, but its cheating, plain and simple.

If Carol and Merl are grandfathered out of needing to adhere to this policy, then, would you say that this is indeed a motion to attempt the board diversity (I think it was called North East representation upthread) you all are looking for? I know there is the argument that this is a veiled attempt to use diversity as the excuse for my first point.

Lastly, I agree with Thom Emery in another thread. The BOD was elected by the members. Let them work it out. To which I add that the vocal minority might not agree with them, but the silent majority just might. We'll only know when they come up for re-election.

BigBarry
02-07-2008, 02:36 PM
I understand this is a proposal, I also see it as a witch hunt. I do however understand concerns of nepatism, but also see KCBS and BBQ as family oriented. The organization was founded by 2 family members and they are the ones that made KCBS.


I am working on a letter to KCBS now.. and please... 490+ of you voted for me.. I ask PLEASE type up a letter and send it to the KCBS board of directors. Even if its just a single sentence, send them something NOW.

Click this link to fire up your email client with the address loaded.

click here (cwells@kcbs.us:rgray@kcbs.us;wlohman@kcbs.us;tbla ck@kcbs.us;dharwell@kcbs.us;pkirk@kcbs.us;mlake@kc bs.us;lmullane@kcbs.us;sownby@kcbs.us;mwhitebook@k cbs.us)


or cut and paste this: cwells@kcbs.us:rgray@kcbs.us;wlohman@kcbs.us;tblac k@kcbs.us;dharwell@kcbs.us;pkirk@kcbs.us;mlake@kcb s.us;lmullane@kcbs.us;sownby@kcbs.us;mwhitebook@kc bs.us (cwells@kcbs.us:rgray@kcbs.us;wlohman@kcbs.us;tbla ck@kcbs.us;dharwell@kcbs.us;pkirk@kcbs.us;mlake@kc bs.us;lmullane@kcbs.us;sownby@kcbs.us;mwhitebook@k cbs.us)

First address ends in : not ;

Cheers!

KC_Bobby
02-07-2008, 02:39 PM
We'll only know when they come up for re-election.

Speaking of which, when does the term end for each of the remaining 8 members - which of them are in their last year now?

ThomEmery
02-07-2008, 02:46 PM
Who is up for reelection next year ?
Merl and who else
Do we need to make changes?
Is there a method of recall?

These meetings need to be open and live
We want to know what is going on
live meetings
www.nowlive.com

Stoke&Smoke
02-07-2008, 02:51 PM
It'd be nice if Mr. Black, or anyone for that matter would explain the reasoning behind this proposal. I mailed the board the following...

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Why not just let the members vote for the leadership we want, instead of trying to pass rules designed to manipulate control of who can and cannot be on the board?
I propose this policy be abandoned before it ever sees the light of day. What is the supposed benefit of such a policy?

Being only my second year in the KCBS, I sure don't like seeing some of the things that are happening. It's taking away what interested my wife and I in the society in the first place.

Dan

BBQchef33
02-07-2008, 03:03 PM
Who is up for reelection next year ?
Merl and who else
Do we need to make changes?
Is there a method of recall?

These meetings need to be open and live
We want to know what is going on
live meetings
www.nowlive.com (http://www.nowlive.com)

Merl and Don Harwell are up next year.

SP
02-07-2008, 03:12 PM
I love BBQ and competing but Im about ready to find a parking lot invite all who want to come and just cook. Too me all this stuff goes to the oppisite of what BBQ is.

KC_Bobby
02-07-2008, 03:23 PM
Yeap, these people probably feel the same way:
http://www.kcbs.us/about_history.php

History of the Kansas City Barbeque Society

One evening, in the fall of 1985, Carolyn and Gary Wells and Rick Welch, a.k.a. Sir Loin, were enjoying some friendly libation and chatting about barbeque. Carolyn was Executive Vice-President of Wicker Barbecue Products company (a great barbeque marinade and baste distributed primarily in the South), and networked extensively in the barbeque market. All competed in the few existing barbeque competitions in the area - The American Royal, The Great Lenexa Barbecue Battle, and the Blue Springs Blaze Off. Members of other cooking teams were always calling wanting to know when the next event would be held. Sadly, there were none.
So, while pondering this dilemma, Carolyn, Gary and Rick decided to form a club for the cookers. The only criteria for membership was that none of it be taken seriously - to do so was grounds for disqualification. What to name the organization? After semi-serious deliberation, The Kansas City Barbeque Society was deemed to fit the bill: it left a lot of room for interpretation, and there was a fair amount of BS! How to reach these other cookers? We decided to put together a barbeque newsletter. Thus was conceived "The Bullsheet." Dues were set at $12 per year to cover printing and mailing. About twenty people joined.
Since the first barbeque contest in the area was in late June, the members decided to have an internal contest. In the tradition of baseball, it was dubbed "KCBS Spring Training." Their buddy, Dan Haake, had a horse farm in the country, and agreed to host the event. Having no funds for prize money or trophies, they bought quarter trophies and typed labels for the category prizes. A paper crown was secured for the grand champion. Invitations went out and entries came back. Twenty-two teams entered the first Spring Training, and membership was up to thirty. A good time was had by all, and it was decided that this club was going to be okay.
After the American Royal, in October, there was nothing going on until the next spring. Being in barbeque withdrawal, members decided that they should have a New Year's party in late January (they didn't want to rush into anything). A potluck dinner and brief program was planned. Invitations were sent and more than hundred people showed up to visit with their barbeque buddies. From the enthusiasm that was building, it was decided that the club be formalized into a real organization. Nine dedicated members were selected for the first Board of Directors. Monthly meetings were held to establish procedures. Periodic newsletters continued to go out, and membership was slightly more than 100.
The Society began receiving calls from organizations wanting to start barbeque competitions. They wanted KCBS to sanction their event. Wait a minute, this is getting serious. Up to this time, each contest had its own set of rules and judging procedures. It was decided to establish a committee to set standard rules and regulations for new contests. A computer literate friend wrote a program for tabulating scores. KCBS was going hi-tech! The contest phenomena was growing rapidly, as was the number of cooking teams and KCBS membership.
The Bullsheet grew from an 8.5 x11", two-sided newsletter to an official tabloid. News was expanded from just contests to include all types of barbeque information: personalities, recipes, cooking techniques, and events outside the KC area. There was so much news that the volunteer staff decided to hire an editor. It was 1988 and the Society was now up to 800 members!
Calls and letters started coming in from all over the United States. More committees were established to sanction contests, computers were purchased, phone and fax lines added. Membership continued to grow and KCBS became an informal but respected BBQ network of information.
In 1987, Rick Welch, Karen Adler, and Westport Publishers compiled members' recipes into a cookbook called "The Passion of BBQ." The book sold well in Kansas City and points beyond. It had information about KCBS, so more calls and letters rolled in. The Convention and Visitors Bureau learned of the Society's existence and began referring barbeque inquiries to KCBS. The network continued growing.
The tradition of the New Year's Party grew also. Programs were added to award a "Team of the Year" based on cumulative contest scores for the previous year. A "Hall of Flame" was initiated. Ribbies (boners) and Piggie (outstanding service) awards were established. Ph.B. (Doctor of Barbeque Philosophy), M.B. (Master of Barbeque), and B.S. (Barbeque Science) degrees were conferred from Remus Powers' Greasehouse University.
By 1993, the KCBS membership was up to 1,400 folks. The systems were in place and the KCBS ran like a semi-well-oiled machine. The number of contests continued to grow, and KCBS was sanctioning contests in points well beyond the Midwest. Thanks to dedicated members, participation in fund-raising projects allowed the Society to experience further growth. Referral programs increased membership and name recognition.
In January 1995, the Board participated in strategic planning exercises to determine orderly growth into the next century. Goals and objectives were set, and assignments delegated. Big plans are in the works for the Society, with the emphasis being on barbeque education. Further, expanding the awareness of barbeque and having fun, KCBS is the voice of the barbeque world.
Today, our voice is larger than ever. Thanks to media attention and event popularity in all things BBQ, our growth has exploded since the late '90s. Our board is still a volunteer board, but it governs the world's largest society of BBQ enthusiasts. We have more than 8,000 members worldwide, and we sanction almost 300 events a year.
So if you love BBQ....if you want to learn how to barbeque better....or if you want create a new event that is sanctioned and attended by the pros....then you have found the right place. Contact us to see how we can get things cooking right away!

SP
02-07-2008, 03:32 PM
I sent my 2 cents in.
Thanks to all who keep updated on the goings on.

jminion
02-07-2008, 03:43 PM
Mr Black and I believe Mike Lake (not possitive on Mike) are up for re-election.

Jim

Stoke&Smoke
02-07-2008, 04:02 PM
It'd be nice if Mr. Black, or anyone for that matter would explain the reasoning behind this proposal. I mailed the board the following...

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Why not just let the members vote for the leadership we want, instead of trying to pass rules designed to manipulate control of who can and cannot be on the board?
I propose this policy be abandoned before it ever sees the light of day. What is the supposed benefit of such a policy?

Being only my second year in the KCBS, I sure don't like seeing some of the things that are happening. It's taking away what interested my wife and I in the society in the first place.

Dan

Bride of Roo(BQ'n)
02-07-2008, 04:06 PM
PSST Dan, your repeating yourself

The Pickled Pig
02-07-2008, 04:23 PM
I think the topic at least merits discussion and am glad the BOD will discuss it. Take all of the personalities and conspiracy theories out of the equation and a nepotism policy for the BOD makes sense to me. Many public boards have similar policies in place. While it does promote some diversity, it's usually done to prevent a consolidation of power. Why is that such a bad thing?

Scottie
02-07-2008, 04:28 PM
Is consolidation of power the same thing as groups of people being elected from the same region?

Wizards of 'Que
02-07-2008, 04:36 PM
Good point Scottie. Maybe it is time for regional repesentation since KCBS has become a national organization.

The Pickled Pig
02-07-2008, 04:51 PM
Is consolidation of power the same thing as groups of people being elected from the same region?


To an extent yes, but it's certainly not the same degree of consolidation as groups of people from the same household or family.

DawgPhan
02-07-2008, 04:57 PM
To an extent yes, but it's certainly not the same degree of consolidation as groups of people from the same household or family.


What would it matter if there was a consolidation of power if the members all voted for it? It wasnt like no one knew they were related...they didnt hide it and everyone voted on it. As long as the elections are open and people vote then it shouldnt matter who gets elected.

Roo-B-Q'N
02-07-2008, 04:58 PM
I think the topic at least merits discussion and am glad the BOD will discuss it. Take all of the personalities and conspiracy theories out of the equation and a nepotism policy for the BOD makes sense to me. Many public boards have similar policies in place. While it does promote some diversity, it's usually done to prevent a consolidation of power. Why is that such a bad thing?


This has nothing to do with nepotism and I doubt that it ever will unless a board member can hire or appoint his or her kin to sit on the board.

A nepotisim rule would have to be written only to disallow the appointment of kin by kin when an opening on the board exists, it can not prevent a nomination by the general membership for a candidate and then the election of the candidate by the general membership to the board of directors.

From Merriam-Webster Online

Main Entry:
nep·o·tism Pronunciation: \ˈne-pə-ˌti-zəm\ Function: noun Etymology: French népotisme, from Italian nepotismo, from nepote nephew, from Latin nepot-, nepos grandson, nephew — more at nephew (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nephew) Date: 1670 : favoritism (as in appointment to a job) based on kinship
— nep·o·tis·tic http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?nepoti02.wav=nepotistic')) \ˌne-pə-ˈtis-tik\ adjective

A nepotism rule would also serve to prevent favoritism of kin to make money from the board or KCBS in the event an outside vendor is needed for some reason or another. This would be a conflict of interest, but we have seen precedence that conflicts of interest do not matter with the past board of directors. But that is for another thread.

This is an outright attempt to prevent one board member from getting re-elected by a few of the board members. And in so doing taking away the right to vote from its general membership for those they truly feel are a qualified candidate.

Yakfishingfool
02-07-2008, 05:15 PM
OK, lot's to read. Let me come at this from a different angle. Maybe the BOD has concerns with families voting as a block. I'm not choosing sides, only offering other possibilities. With that said, I believe there are other methods to prevent "silo's" of power. When one person sits in a position for too long, they become a silo, perhaps to the point of being irrational in decision making for the organization. Are there any term limits? That would handle silos. I will also send a letter ot KCBS BOD and request that this proposal be rescinded. Scott

Yakfishingfool
02-07-2008, 05:15 PM
Forgot to ask, does this come out of the nominating committee???

BBQchef33
02-07-2008, 05:30 PM
Lets set aside alliances, friendships, and conspiracy theories.

I would really like to know the reasoning behind the proposal to avoid all the speculation, but even if it is explained the bottom line wont change.

What this does is not allow US, the members, to nominate someone we may see fit to run. That is where my issue lies. This is not about replacing our current board members, or squeezing out next years, but altering our rights to nominate who we see fit. If WE decide we WANT a shift, then WE should be allowed to do it, and have the membership vote it in, or not... We should not be given a watered down and weeded thru candidate pool to choose fromm based on the current boards preferences. Who's wagging the tail here?

BTW... IMO, There has always been a consolidation of power. In our circle, it has been know as the "good ole boys." We need new blood and forward thinkers. The dinosaurs are extinct and growth requires change.

watertowerbbq
02-07-2008, 05:55 PM
I sent in my response. Let the membership decide who should get in and who is eligible. The BOD is losing touch with the membership.

Muzzlebrake
02-07-2008, 05:57 PM
I think saying that a motion entitled KCBS Board Nepotism Policy has nothing to do with nepotism is a little out of order.
now I will admit to ignorance about the inner politics of the BOD, and to be honest I dont really care about that any of that chit.
what I see is a member of the board putting forth a motion to be discussed at the upcoming meeting. Isn't that what we want the people we elected to do? I agree the subject does warrant discussion and I am hopeful that this is what the BOD will do with this just as they would with any other motions that are brought before them.
am I just naive here or am I just way off base?

Coz
02-07-2008, 06:53 PM
First point,I am not yet a member of KCBS.But since my interest in raising my personal bar to competition level there are 3 or 4 sites I visit every day(internet Shiggin?)and the most prevelant things I see about KCBS are inner turmoil,a board that isnt happy about the membership seeing whats going on etc.I guess until they make me join to compete I will save my dollars to use elsewhere.Any one else have a game being held in Wi.:confused:

The Pickled Pig
02-07-2008, 07:26 PM
I didn't say that I was for or against the motion, only that I am glad it is going to be discussed. I would like to hear the reasoning of those that support it. I have no horse in this race. Everything I know about the situation is what I have read in this thread and other threads right here.

I don't think it's useful to get caught up in the semantics of the word nepotism. Whether it's the right or wrong term to use doesn't really impact the underlying motion. It's been my experience that in HR type policies, nepotism is used to denote all policies that cover the employment or service of family, and sometimes friends, and sometimes business acquantices or other potential conflicts of interest relationships.

The extent of the KCBS BOD's authority in this matter should be spelled out in the organization's charter, articles of incorpration, or by-laws. This would not be not be an uncommon authority granted to BODs.

The BOD represents all KCBS members. The vast majority of members probably don't want to be bothered by these types of issues and would welcome that type of board discretion. When those members don't like the way the organization is working, they elect new board members.

In every election I can think of, there are some sort of requirements a candidate must meet. Just look at the Constitutional requirements to run for US President. Someone who doesn't meet the requirements cannot be nominated regardless of the "members" wishes. Not being a family members of an existing board member is just another type of requirement.

I point these things out because I don't believe the motion in and of itself is unreasonable. If different personalities were involved I doubt this thread would even exist.

I like the KCBS and what it's done for me and the people I've met through KCBS experiences. I don't pretend to know or care about the politics involved. I appreciate the service of all of the board members, past, present, and future. I've served on boards and worked with many more and it's harder, and more stressful than it looks.

Muzzlebrake
02-07-2008, 07:30 PM
I didn't say that I was for or against the motion, only that I am glad it is going to be discussed. I would like to hear the reasoning of those that support it. I have no horse in this race. Everything I know about the situation is what I have read in this thread and other threads right here.

I don't think it's useful to get caught up in the semantics of the word nepotism. Whether it's the right or wrong term to use doesn't really impact the underlying motion. It's been my experience that in HR type policies, nepotism is used to denote all policies that cover the employment or service of family, and sometimes friends, and sometimes business acquantices or other potential conflicts of interest relationships.

The extent of the KCBS BOD's authority in this matter should be spelled out in the organization's charter, articles of incorpration, or by-laws. This would not be not be an uncommon authority granted to BODs.

The BOD represents all KCBS members. The vast majority of members probably don't want to be bothered by these types of issues and would welcome that type of board discretion. When those members don't like the way the organization is working, they elect new board members.

In every election I can think of, there are some sort of requirements a candidate must meet. Just look at the Constitutional requirements to run for US President. Someone who doesn't meet the requirements cannot be nominated regardless of the "members" wishes. Not being a family members of an existing board member is just another type of requirement.

I point these things out because I don't believe the motion in and of itself is unreasonable. If different personalities were involved I doubt this thread would even exist.

I like the KCBS and what it's done for me and the people I've met through KCBS experiences. I don't pretend to know or care about the politics involved. I appreciate the service of all of the board members, past, present, and future. I've served on boards and worked with many more and it's harder, and more stressful than it looks.

well said

be careful you will find yourself nominated

scottyd
02-07-2008, 07:30 PM
My grandpa always said there is someone born every minute to fark it up for the rest of us.

jminion
02-07-2008, 07:44 PM
I think saying that a motion entitled KCBS Board Nepotism Policy has nothing to do with nepotism is a little out of order.
now I will admit to ignorance about the inner politics of the BOD, and to be honest I dont really care about that any of that chit.
what I see is a member of the board putting forth a motion to be discussed at the upcoming meeting. Isn't that what we want the people we elected to do? I agree the subject does warrant discussion and I am hopeful that this is what the BOD will do with this just as they would with any other motions that are brought before them.
am I just naive here or am I just way off base?

This is about not allowing Merl to run for re-election, this same member tried get a rule passed to gag me from posting in forums this not a new tactic.

Jim

MilitantSquatter
02-07-2008, 08:14 PM
I've given my opinion here on a fair share of KCBS issues that we've discussed here and had interest.

However, the more I read through this particular issue, the more I realize that life is just way to farking short to need to get my pants all twisted about this or similar issues regarding the KCBS governing body and how business is run. It's truly a shame and unfortunate that they can find the time to discuss a petty, non issue like this when more important operational issues exist. I wish the KCBS the best in what it decides on this topic and others down the road.

For the time being, I will continue to be a KCBS member, vote for those I think have the spirit of BBQ at heart and compete for the fun of it.

What I've read over the last few weeks solidifies my decision to steer clear of any BS, politics, governing body rules etc.

It's also amazing that people (including me) will spend more time here fighting an issue here and e-mailing the BOD than we do in our civilian lives seeking answers and actions from our politicians etc. on important issues even at the local and not national level.

When the fun goes away regarding KCBS competitions, I'm gonna go back to just cooking in my backyard or with my Brethren friends...

bbqbull
02-07-2008, 08:24 PM
I've given my opinion here on a fair share of KCBS issues that we've discussed here and had interest.

However, the more I read through this particular issue, the more I realize that life is just way to farking short to need to get my pants all twisted about this or similar issues regarding the KCBS governing body and how business is run. It's truly a shame and unfortunate that they can find the time to discuss a petty, non issue like this when more important operational issues exist. I wish the KCBS the best in what it decides on this topic and others down the road.

For the time being, I will continue to be a KCBS member, vote for those I think have the spirit of BBQ at heart and compete for the fun of it.

What I've read over the last few weeks solidifies my decision to steer clear of any BS, politics, governing body rules etc.

It's also amazing that people (including me) will spend more time here fighting an issue here and e-mailing the BOD than we do in our civilian lives seeking answers and actions from our politicians etc. on important issues even at the local and not national level.

When the fun goes away regarding KCBS competitions, I'm gonna go back to just cooking in my backyard or with my Brethren friends...

Vinny.............Perfectly Stated IMHO.

chinesebob
02-07-2008, 08:28 PM
Your right, it takes the voting away from KCBS members. It might as well just be a good ole boys club again. I have asked many times for the bylaws, a financial report and many other items. I finally got the by laws after years of asking, but nothing else. Why is everything sure a secret? What do we not deserve to know? This is crazy! I have asked who the letters and emails are from and were told they dont think they can say who wrote them, another secret? If the people dont want the membership to know who they are it should not be a issue to them. This board needs to get back to management of KCBS and let the members vote in who they want.

I think that if they are listed as a non-profit organization they have to publish their financials annually. If they are a private company then we have less to say other than at election time. Check with the state they are registered in, but if they can't or don't provide them then they are breaking the law.

Being naive, I can throw this out for consideration:

Why do we need BS (back-stabbing) politics in an organization developed around the enjoyment of BBQ???

Riddle me that.

Why do we need BS like this in any organization.

OK, lot's to read. Let me come at this from a different angle. Maybe the BOD has concerns with families voting as a block. I'm not choosing sides, only offering other possibilities. With that said, I believe there are other methods to prevent "silo's" of power. When one person sits in a position for too long, they become a silo, perhaps to the point of being irrational in decision making for the organization. Are there any term limits? That would handle silos. I will also send a letter ot KCBS BOD and request that this proposal be rescinded. Scott

Nepotism/good ole boy same thing. Unfortunately it exists. I deal with it every single day. I think that if we and they accept it exists and will exist and some BS will be a result of that. If we are working towards a common goal, then there is still a common ground to work from.

This is about not allowing Merl to run for re-election, this same member tried get a rule passed to gag me from posting in forums this not a new tactic.
Jim

Jim - Makes you wonder if he's ever heard of the Constitution of The United States of America.

In my experience politics and things like this come about because of 2 underlying motives. Money or Power. If the BOD is serious about getting bigger sponsors, increasing dues, fees, etc. there is going to be more money, that they may get. If not directly, then in some form as yet unseen. Power is different but the motives are similar. In something like this it can only come stroke ego's and build resumes.

Several years ago the Mayor of Columbus and some of his key aids didn't run for re-election but right after the end of their term they all land cushy positions with Nationwide Insurance making a sweet amount of coin. Sure he had to live on more than most of make in a year while Mayor but he leveraged it into something bigger.

Money and power. Look at the heart of the motives and you will see the truth. If they are free from retribution after being elected by the members then they are free to do what they wnat and pray you don't remember at election time. If a large number of members are opposed to this, then boycotting competitions or other actions might speak as loud as the emails. Or letters to their new sponsors.

Just some thoughts.

DeanC
02-07-2008, 10:25 PM
Good point Scottie. Maybe it is time for regional repesentation since KCBS has become a national organization.


I think that is an excellent idea.

ThomEmery
02-07-2008, 10:34 PM
Sure would be nice to have a rep from the West ,North East etc

thenewguy
02-07-2008, 11:03 PM
I voiced my concerns, I hope others have as well.

michiana mark
02-08-2008, 12:21 AM
Message sent, hope they listened. Maybe we should March on headquarters.

River City Smokehouse
02-08-2008, 02:03 AM
This is about not allowing Merl to run for re-election, this same member tried get a rule passed to gag me from posting in forums this not a new tactic.

Jim
I can't wait til it's time to put in the votes when Troy Black comes back up because I'm sure this will be the end of his involvement. It just won't happen fast enough for me.

AsstChief7
02-08-2008, 07:31 AM
I sent my emails with my opinions... I how everyone else does the same.

Muzzlebrake
02-08-2008, 07:31 AM
For the time being, I will continue to be a KCBS member, vote for those I think have the spirit of BBQ at heart and compete for the fun of it.

When the fun goes away regarding KCBS competitions, I'm gonna go back to just cooking in my backyard or with my Brethren friends...

I want to come and cook around that fire.......discuss real issues like; exactley when Henry Rollins sold out or if Social Distortion was pop or punk?

ThomEmery
02-08-2008, 07:47 AM
Sent a email today

Roo-B-Q'N
02-08-2008, 08:06 AM
Well apparently after a hundred or so emails to the board of directors, Mr. Black feels he has the votes to push this through the board. This does not take into account the fact that by laws would need to be changed or amended. Suffice it to say Black has his own agenda at heart.

So after seeing this action and, if you were at the organizers meeting where he continued to push his agenda after taking a show of hands vote regarding membership requirements for competing (with not one single hand raised in favor of by the organizers) I believe as I have stated Mr. Black and several of those aligned with him ( I guess this is a concentration of power without nepotism) are going against the wishes and votes of the general membership.

If you care about how and who runs your organization in the future, or more to the point who will be allowed to run and have not done so, e-mail the board of directors. You have until 7 P.M.

KC_Bobby
02-08-2008, 08:24 AM
So where and when does the Learn2Q promotion, err BBQ Tour kick off?

Plowboy
02-08-2008, 08:27 AM
Mr. Black and several of those aligned with him


So who are these people? I'm just not in the know about BOD political alignments.

I'll take a PM on that question, Bob. :wink:

SP
02-08-2008, 08:44 AM
Competition/Tour Schedule
Charleston, SC - March 07, 2008 to March 08, 2008
North Kansas City, MO - March 14, 2008 to March 15, 2008
Hammond, LA - March 28, 2008 to March 29, 2008
Clarksville, TN - April 04, 2008 to April 05, 2008
Columbus, MS - April 11, 2008 to April 12, 2008
Livingston, AL - April 18, 2008 to April 19, 2008
Sugar Creek, MO - April 25, 2008 to April 26, 2008
Huntsville, AL - May 02, 2008 to May 03, 2008
Ashland, MS - May 09, 2008 to May 10, 2008
*Danville, VA - May 16, 2008 to May 18, 2008
*Kansas City, KS - May 23, 2008 to May 25, 2008
*Nashville, TN - June 05, 2008 to June 08, 2008
Mt. Pleasant, IA - June 13, 2008 to June 15, 2008
*Washington, DC - June 20, 2008 to June 21, 2008
Albertville, AL - June 27, 2008 to June 28, 2008
*Napierville, IL - July 03, 2008 to July 06, 2008
Tulsa, OK - July 11, 2008 to July 12, 2008
Bellvue, NE - July 18, 2008 to July 19, 2008
Mason City, IA - July 25, 2008 to July 26, 2008
*Dillon, CO - August 08, 2008 to August 09, 2008
Madison, IN - August 15, 2008 to August 16, 2008
*Reno, NV - August 27, 2008 to September 01, 2008
Cookeville, TN - September 05, 2008 to September 06, 2008
Decatur, AL - September 12, 2008 to September 13, 2008
American Royal, Kansas City, MO - October 02, 2008 to October 05, 2008
*College Station, TX - October 11, 2008 to October 12, 2008
Canton, GA - October 17, 2008 to October 18, 2008
*Jack Daniel's World BBQ Invitational, Lynchburg, TN - October 24, 2008 to October 25, 2008
*St. Petersburg, FL - November 07, 2008 to November 09, 2008
Plant City, FL - November 14, 2008 to November 15, 2008
Ft. Lauderdale, FL - November 28, 2008 to November 29, 2008

*Denotes Southern BBQ on Tour Demo Event

slat
02-08-2008, 08:47 AM
It's sad that a non issue like this has to become something of such importance. There are many more important issues to work out. I sent an email too. Hope that we are heard.

KC_Bobby
02-08-2008, 09:02 AM
Slat, we may be in agreement about the fact that this issue is an issue. But I don't consider this a non-issue.

If this proposal passes, it takes away Merl's chance or running again next year. Merl has been instrumental on the board to get us members more information and to be able to voice opinions and concerns to the board.

Fast Eddy
02-08-2008, 09:06 AM
If Jack Roush was on the board of Nascar and was making a stupid decision that affected the wishes of owners,competitors, and fans,don't you think it would be disturbing to his sponsors that he represents? Last I knew that some of these BOD are making a living from BBQ sponsors. I wonder what they would think about the negitive feeling toward the represntitive of there products stiring the waters like this?I would find it hard as a business owner in the industry to support individuals who would vote for this issue.

QN
02-08-2008, 09:09 AM
There is a copy of the latest version of the KCBS Bylaws on a free web site. It is a PDF file. The changes and revisions were approved by vote of the membership in last years (2006?) election voting.

http://www.4shared.com/file/37223714/24560540/

scottyd
02-08-2008, 09:33 AM
We as a voting body have no voice. We have been dupped. There are good people on the Board, But we have found some Black Sheep also people with there own adjenda. This truly is disapointing to say the least.

I am truly disapointed in the way this is shaking out. From all I have read on this Forum and others. No matter what happens now we have a whole lot or rebuilding to do.

KC_Bobby
02-08-2008, 09:33 AM
Competition/Tour Schedule
Charleston, SC - March 07, 2008 to March 08, 2008
North Kansas City, MO - March 14, 2008 to March 15, 2008
Hammond, LA - March 28, 2008 to March 29, 2008
Clarksville, TN - April 04, 2008 to April 05, 2008
Columbus, MS - April 11, 2008 to April 12, 2008
Livingston, AL - April 18, 2008 to April 19, 2008
Sugar Creek, MO - April 25, 2008 to April 26, 2008
Huntsville, AL - May 02, 2008 to May 03, 2008
Ashland, MS - May 09, 2008 to May 10, 2008
*Danville, VA - May 16, 2008 to May 18, 2008
*Kansas City, KS - May 23, 2008 to May 25, 2008
*Nashville, TN - June 05, 2008 to June 08, 2008
Mt. Pleasant, IA - June 13, 2008 to June 15, 2008
*Washington, DC - June 20, 2008 to June 21, 2008
Albertville, AL - June 27, 2008 to June 28, 2008
*Napierville, IL - July 03, 2008 to July 06, 2008
Tulsa, OK - July 11, 2008 to July 12, 2008
Bellvue, NE - July 18, 2008 to July 19, 2008
Mason City, IA - July 25, 2008 to July 26, 2008
*Dillon, CO - August 08, 2008 to August 09, 2008
Madison, IN - August 15, 2008 to August 16, 2008
*Reno, NV - August 27, 2008 to September 01, 2008
Cookeville, TN - September 05, 2008 to September 06, 2008
Decatur, AL - September 12, 2008 to September 13, 2008
American Royal, Kansas City, MO - October 02, 2008 to October 05, 2008
*College Station, TX - October 11, 2008 to October 12, 2008
Canton, GA - October 17, 2008 to October 18, 2008
*Jack Daniel's World BBQ Invitational, Lynchburg, TN - October 24, 2008 to October 25, 2008
*St. Petersburg, FL - November 07, 2008 to November 09, 2008
Plant City, FL - November 14, 2008 to November 15, 2008
Ft. Lauderdale, FL - November 28, 2008 to November 29, 2008

*Denotes Southern BBQ on Tour Demo Event

These are Learn2Q dates, not necessarily the BBQ Tour dates.

Ford
02-08-2008, 09:38 AM
Is that schedule the new KCBS trailer? According to the webiste it's first stop is New Mexico and I saw Thom post it was going to CA. Don't see thsoe on this schedule.

jminion
02-08-2008, 10:59 AM
Competition/Tour Schedule
Charleston, SC - March 07, 2008 to March 08, 2008
North Kansas City, MO - March 14, 2008 to March 15, 2008
Hammond, LA - March 28, 2008 to March 29, 2008
Clarksville, TN - April 04, 2008 to April 05, 2008
Columbus, MS - April 11, 2008 to April 12, 2008
Livingston, AL - April 18, 2008 to April 19, 2008
Sugar Creek, MO - April 25, 2008 to April 26, 2008
Huntsville, AL - May 02, 2008 to May 03, 2008
Ashland, MS - May 09, 2008 to May 10, 2008
*Danville, VA - May 16, 2008 to May 18, 2008
*Kansas City, KS - May 23, 2008 to May 25, 2008
*Nashville, TN - June 05, 2008 to June 08, 2008
Mt. Pleasant, IA - June 13, 2008 to June 15, 2008
*Washington, DC - June 20, 2008 to June 21, 2008
Albertville, AL - June 27, 2008 to June 28, 2008
*Napierville, IL - July 03, 2008 to July 06, 2008
Tulsa, OK - July 11, 2008 to July 12, 2008
Bellvue, NE - July 18, 2008 to July 19, 2008
Mason City, IA - July 25, 2008 to July 26, 2008
*Dillon, CO - August 08, 2008 to August 09, 2008
Madison, IN - August 15, 2008 to August 16, 2008
*Reno, NV - August 27, 2008 to September 01, 2008
Cookeville, TN - September 05, 2008 to September 06, 2008
Decatur, AL - September 12, 2008 to September 13, 2008
American Royal, Kansas City, MO - October 02, 2008 to October 05, 2008
*College Station, TX - October 11, 2008 to October 12, 2008
Canton, GA - October 17, 2008 to October 18, 2008
*Jack Daniel's World BBQ Invitational, Lynchburg, TN - October 24, 2008 to October 25, 2008
*St. Petersburg, FL - November 07, 2008 to November 09, 2008
Plant City, FL - November 14, 2008 to November 15, 2008
Ft. Lauderdale, FL - November 28, 2008 to November 29, 2008

*Denotes Southern BBQ on Tour Demo Event

Not saying Mr Black has cut a deal with MMA but all the dates with * in front is Mr Black with his equipement filling that spot. Wonder what the payoff is on that?

BBQchef33
02-08-2008, 11:15 AM
Folk, please get your emails into the board regarding tonights vote on the Nepatism Policy. Agree, or oppose, send in an EMAIL and send to the ENTIRE BOARD. Its very important that our voices be heard.

I know this entire thing is frustrating, but we have to use the ONLY vehicle we have which to get through to them which is Email or phone calls. The board meeting is open to the public, anyone can attend. (but you have to register to speak, and today is too late). Wheather it be agree or oppose, we need to get our requests on record to those people we elected to represent us.


Here is and FYI on how this stuff works(as I understand it). Tonight is just a proposal. IF it happens, it would need to be instituted as a Bylaw change. Bylaw changes must be voted in by the members(aside from a 'special election', or closed door). That vote would take place NEXT YEAR in 2009, AFTER the 2009 election, so it would not effect anyone on the board today, or anyone being nominated or voted in next year. The earliest this would become effective is 2010.

Scottie
02-08-2008, 11:20 AM
Not saying Mr Black has cut a deal with MMA but all the dates with * in front is Mr Black with his equipement filling that spot. Wonder what the payoff is on that?

that is just too funny Jim... If he has cut a deal... Damn, my sides are hurting I am laughing so hard!!!!! :roll:

SP
02-08-2008, 11:23 AM
Not saying Mr Black has cut a deal with MMA but all the dates with * in front is Mr Black with his equipement filling that spot. Wonder what the payoff is on that?

:-D

Folk, please get your emails into the board regarding this.. and send to the ENTIRE BOARD. Regarding tonights vote on the Nepatism Policy. Agree, or oppose, send in an EMAIL. Its very important that our voices be heard.

I know this entire thing is frustrating, but we have to use the ONLY vehicle we have which to get through to them which is Email or phone calls. The board meeting is open to the public, anyone can attend. (but you have to register to speak, and today is too late). Weather it be agree or oppose, we need to get our requests on record to those people we elected to represent us.

Well said Phil.

tonto1117
02-08-2008, 11:25 AM
Folk, please get your emails into the board regarding this.. and send to the ENTIRE BOARD. Regarding tonights vote on the Nepatism Policy. Agree, or oppose, send in an EMAIL. Its very important that our voices be heard.

I know this entire thing is frustrating, but we have to use the ONLY vehicle we have which to get through to them which is Email or phone calls. The board meeting is open to the public, anyone can attend. (but you have to register to speak, and today is too late). Weather it be agree or oppose, we need to get our requests on record to those people we elected to represent us.

Letter sent. I recieved a very nice, almost immediate responce from Merl, but no one else yet.

Letter:

Dear KCBS Board of Directors,

The below quoted resolution is a travesty of trust and board governance. Period! Both my husband and I have been proud, dues paying members of KCBS and had hoped to continue being members. This attempt at ousting a properly elected board member is beyond Ďkids stuffí; it is detrimental to the health of a growing and vibrant organization. Rather than consider this rubbish of a resolution, let stand the wishes of the voters and not put forth some board memberís selfish agenda.

Ironically, the very definition of nepotism escapes any relevance in this smarmy resolution.

Our continued membership is questionable.

Respectfully,

Theresa and Walter Munroe
KCBS Members and CBíJs #22085 and #22078

ďKCBS Board Nepotism Policy

Be it resolved that no family members shall serve on the Kansas City Barbeque Society Board of Directors at the same time, during any term.
Family members are defined as a board memberís parent, child, spouse, domestic partner, brother, sister, grandparent, and any step relationships within the preceding categories.
Respectfully Submitted,
Troy BlackĒ

Bride of Roo(BQ'n)
02-08-2008, 11:32 AM
As Phil has stated in another thread. This meeting is open to the public.

It will be held at Embassy Suites Metcalf and I-435 in Overland Park...start time is 7:00 pm.

One of the greatest things Merl has done for the membership so far is get this meeting open to us as members. I just spoke with him and he encourages members to attend.

Tom and I are driving down from Omaha and will be there. If this is half as important to you (especially local members) as you have iterated here. Please consider attending. We can call it a Mini Bash!

See you there!!

Plowboy
02-08-2008, 11:33 AM
Word is that Troy has enough votes to pull this off. Some members are planning to crash the meeting this evening.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com//forum/showthread.php?t=37367

motoeric
02-08-2008, 11:43 AM
I just sent off a letter.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I abhor cronyism.

Eric

Spydermike72
02-08-2008, 11:44 AM
Well I sent an e-mail. Something that I have not seen answered is why is this policy change needed ??

If this is a personal attack in any way, this is very un-professional and these actions need to be looked into by an ethics commitee...

butcher_boy
02-08-2008, 12:17 PM
You know I can somewhat understand why they would do something like this. I know carol and merl only from their KCBS judging class they held here in AZ. Fine folks and a great couple.
However I can see how the board might do this because their vote would be one the same. Kind of like not having husband and wife sit at the same judging table. Over the years your taste, Ideas become the same.
(e.g My wife is from tokyo Japan, big city gal. after living with me in the country she is as redneck as a mustard green.)

YankeeBBQ
02-08-2008, 12:25 PM
You know I can somewhat understand why they would do something like this. I know carol and merl only from their KCBS judging class they held here in AZ. Fine folks and a great couple.
However I can see how the board might do this because their vote would be one the same. Kind of like not having husband and wife sit at the same judging table. Over the years your taste, Ideas become the same.
(e.g My wife is from tokyo Japan, big city gal. after living with me in the country she is as redneck as a mustard green.)

Yes but why wasn't this handled before the election. When Carol was nominated it should have been discussed by the BOD and been resolved. The timing is what bothers me.

Plowboy
02-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Yes but why wasn't this handled before the election. When Carol was nominated it should have been discussed by the BOD and been resolved. The timing is what bothers me.

<FLY ON THE WALL MOD>

"Let's just lay low and see if she gets elected."
"Oh, chit! She was elected!"
"Where's that nepotism policy I wrote just in case?"

Jorge
02-08-2008, 01:00 PM
Yes but why wasn't this handled before the election. When Carol was nominated it should have been discussed by the BOD and been resolved. The timing is what bothers me.

It bothers me as well. In addition I'm less than pleased that this item was added to the agenda in the manner that it was; at the last minute. I can't speak to the motives for handling it in that manner. In my personal experience, sitting on the board of a non-profit, that is seldom a good thing unless it is some sort of emergency. In this case the next election is almost a year away. This issue could have been added to agenda a long time ago, or added to the March agenda allowing the membership sufficient time to be heard. Regardless of the motivation, this just looks bad.

In my letter to board members I urged them to make any debate or discussion of this issue public, and provide a complete and accurate transcript to members. It is my opinion, that the only way to adequately deal with the current issue is to make the process as transparent as possible.

My .02

Scottie
02-08-2008, 01:02 PM
Yes but why wasn't this handled before the election. When Carol was nominated it should have been discussed by the BOD and been resolved. The timing is what bothers me.


Exactly. It's now crying over spilled milk...

Yakfishingfool
02-08-2008, 01:16 PM
I wrote and was responded to by two board members. Remember that a BOD does the work of the organization, that to serve is a privilege and we, as members, afford them that privilege by voting them in. My nominee's didn't make it this year but you can be darn sure, if they choose to run again, that I will continue to vote them in. Our vote is the only way we have of controlling the BOD. Ideally a BOD develops a plan, based on a mission, that serves it's members, as well as the corporation. I asked if this came out of nominating committee, as that would be an appropriate palce for this to eminate, and did not hear. I asked if there was history to this policy, ie problems documented in the past. Also unanswered. While a BOD may do things that seem unrasonable to members, the ultimate role of the members is to speak out and vote accordingly. I continue to plan on doing both. I ask you to do the same. Scott

butcher_boy
02-08-2008, 02:02 PM
Why would the Board want to get rid of Merl?
From the brief time I spent with Merl I came to conclude he was a fun loving, BBQ'en guy! perfect for KCBS.
strange world I guess.

Scottie
02-08-2008, 02:11 PM
Because he wants to open up the meetings and actually let the membership know what's going on. Instead of sneaking around, having conflicts, getting motions added to the Agenda exactly 72 hours in advance. So that no one has any time for rebuttal or to revise.

This is still the old boy network.

Arlin_MacRae
02-08-2008, 03:33 PM
I just sent in my e-mail. Long...

Divemaster
02-08-2008, 03:45 PM
Email sent... Not happy...

ique
02-08-2008, 03:47 PM
Glad to see there is somewhere where this issue can still be discussed.

jminion
02-08-2008, 03:48 PM
KCBS has a history of husband and wife on the Board together. Gary and Carolyn and at least on two other occations. There is nothing new but the difference in past the Board was a rubber stamp for what ever the leadership wanted to do, if you don't believe that talk to Ed Roith. Now KCBS has grown inspite of bad business policies and there are those on the Board that want the Board to be more responcive to the membership. Bad habits die hard and some don't want it to die.

River City Smokehouse
02-08-2008, 04:11 PM
I sent a letter to all of the BOD early this morning. Here it is:It is with my deepest concern to write to all of you about the motion made by Troy Black to adopt a Nepotism rule and invoke it for the KCBS. BS is what stands out to me here. I believe the voice of the voters was heard in the last election and to my knowledge no one has a problem with a husband and a wife both serving on the BOD as long as there is no questionable practices taking place.

As a paying member of the KCBS I am beginning to become more concerned with the motion and possibly question some of the ethics and integrity of motion's author. I urge as a member in good standing that this motion be rescinded and put to rest.

James D. Fitzsimmons

"BBQ with Attitude!"

This reply was sent from Don Harwell:Dear James,

First of all I want to thank you very much for your email to me regarding this nepotism issue. I will be printing out all of the emails that I've received and personally carrying them to the meeting tonight, February 8th. I am trying very hard to be sure that the members are spoken for at the board meetings and these many emails will certainly support my efforts.

I personally think that the membership spoke when they made their choices in the election for board of directors. I do not favor the policy being considered and if put to a vote, then I will vote against any restrictions regarding who can or can not run for the board of directors positions.

I am very much in favor of having the actions and discussions of the board open to members of KCBS, all members both what is coming up for discussion, i.e. the agenda made available in advance to the members as well as the minutes readily available soon after the meeting. In fact it is my dream that perhaps we can eventually even make a recorded podcast available to all members. There are many things that are happening that should be brought to the members' attention.

Thanks again for your email,Don Harwell

......and I also received this response from Merl Whitebrook:

Thank you for your message to the BOD. Please ask a friend to write as well. I received a call last night that Troy believes he still has the votes. The BOD needs to hear the message of the members loud and clear. Thank you again for writing to the BOD. Remember you can get copies of the agenda by writing to Carolyn at the office. We need to hear from our members about issues.
Yours in Q
Merl Whitebook

Hmmm funny that Troy Black hasn't responded.

If there was any way on earth I could get up there for the meeting tonight I would in a heartbeat. If anyone from Columbia is going, I can drive to Columbia if you'll allow me to ride along. Call me at 573-896-8547 or 573-230-9174 if anyone is going. ~Jim

AsstChief7
02-08-2008, 04:18 PM
I just noticed something... if you used the link on the KCBS site to email all of the BOD's, sorry to say, but the newly elected ones are NOT on the email list.

Chief

KC_Bobby
02-08-2008, 04:22 PM
I received replies from 4 BOD's yesterday ... although I don't believe mine were word for word the same. Eitherway, good to know that some of the BOD's agree.

Arlin_MacRae
02-08-2008, 04:42 PM
Awesome replies, RCS!


KCBS has a history of husband and wife on the Board together. Gary and Carolyn and at least on two other occations. There is nothing new but the difference in past the Board was a rubber stamp for what ever the leadership wanted to do, if you don't believe that talk to Ed Roith. Now KCBS has grown inspite of bad business policies and there are those on the Board that want the Board to be more responcive to the membership. Bad habits die hard and some don't want it to die.

Jim, is there any way at all to look at this other than as a politically-motivated move? I mean, has nepotism ever been a problem?

Arlin

tonto1117
02-08-2008, 04:43 PM
Glad to see there is somewhere where this issue can still be discussed.

I hear ya Chris.....was in the middle of reading responces when ..POOF....deleted. In fact, anything pertaining to this issue was deleted. Kinda makes one wonder what's on who's agenda,and who the puppeteer might be?

KC_Bobby
02-08-2008, 04:45 PM
I was in the middle of typing a reply and poof. Therefore I started a new thread just now. As of a minute ago it was still there. :eek:

Arlin_MacRae
02-08-2008, 04:46 PM
Good luck with that, Bobby!

Ford
02-08-2008, 04:46 PM
Mr. Black did respond to my original email questioning if Carol would be allowed to be a BOD mdmber. "There is nothing in the policy being discussed that would prevent any elected director from serving their term as elected.
Troy" I then asked about how it would imapct others and again expressed the opinion that it was not a good motion. Sent it to all members. Troy didn't respond to that one.

KC_Bobby
02-08-2008, 04:49 PM
I tell ya what though, after today I think I've realized that the problems do not end with one certain board member. Now I think I get the good ole boys (err, people) comment.

Ford
02-08-2008, 04:50 PM
My prediction for tonight. Mr. Black will withdraw the motion. It will appear on a future agenda at 72 hours and 1 minute before the meeting. That or the new president will force a vote and get his defeated once and for all.

And I loved the deleted post on another Forum. If anybody has a copy and could post it here It would be nice to see. Especially that part about us writing advertisers complaining about what's going on with an organization they Sponsor.

At this rate I'll go from "on the road to being a farker" to a "farker" in a couple of days. First thing I do tomorrow is check this site, even before making coffee. Early to bed for me and I expect that the BOD meeting may go awhile.

KC_Bobby
02-08-2008, 04:55 PM
Did Ray used to be on the board?

River City Smokehouse
02-08-2008, 05:03 PM
I posted a comment of that Dictatorship of a forum and it got nixed within a minute of it being posted. And to think I used to really like that forum.....at least until my freedom of speech was taken away. Thanks Phil for this OPEN forum where we can have a voice. Yeah...me thinks Ray is getting something from someone over there. Hmmmm.....:eek:

Ford
02-08-2008, 05:08 PM
I posted a comment of that Dictatorship of a forum and it got nixed within a minute of it being posted. And to think I used to really like that forum.....at least until my freedom of speech was taken away. Thanks Phil for this OPEN forum where we can have a voice. Yeah...me thinks Ray is getting something from someone over there. Hmmmm.....:eek:
Fitz - I have to disagree with you on this one. We all owe a lot to Ray. Would this even be here if Ray hadn't started his? Would the KCBS be where it is today? And I don't mean this current mess. If he decides that the posts violate his rules and some certainly did then he can delete them. He certainly has built a business addition out of the Forum with ads but compared to the time he puts in ..... And people get cheap hosting for their sites.

Solidkick
02-08-2008, 05:15 PM
I posted a comment of that Dictatorship of a forum and it got nixed within a minute of it being posted. And to think I used to really like that forum.....at least until my freedom of speech was taken away. Thanks Phil for this OPEN forum where we can have a voice. Yeah...me thinks Ray is getting something from someone over there. Hmmmm.....:eek:
Mod note:
As long as everyone keeps it civil and doesn't start taking pot shots at one another, then you have policed yourselves and discussions like this can remain OPEN...

But beleive me, there is no less than 8 pairs of eyes keeping a watch on things here just in case someone would tend to "drift" a little....:wink:

I must commend the posters in the comps forum.....you all show the same class here as you do out on the road....I'm proud to be one of you!

Yakfishingfool
02-08-2008, 05:56 PM
I'm with Solid, try not to bring in what does or doesn't happen on other boards. It becomes viral in it;s ability to get people upset and fuming. thanks to Phil for being open here and thanks to all the folks here keeping it civil. Scott

ThomEmery
02-08-2008, 08:01 PM
Glad I am a Brethren

Sledneck
02-08-2008, 09:02 PM
Fitz - I have to disagree with you on this one. We all owe a lot to Ray. Would this even be here if Ray hadn't started his? Would the KCBS be where it is today? And I don't mean this current mess. If he decides that the posts violate his rules and some certainly did then he can delete them. He certainly has built a business addition out of the Forum with ads but compared to the time he puts in ..... And people get cheap hosting for their sites.
I really dont see what ray has to do with the growth of KCBS.

Jeff_in_KC
02-08-2008, 09:16 PM
Two things to contribute here...

This forum would exist with or without Ray's forum. He had nothing to do with this forum being here, Ford.

Secondly, Ray is the advertising guy for the KCBS Web site. You want an ad there? You pay Ray for it. And they aren't cheap at all. Does he have anything to gain from all this stuff? You tell me.

BBQchef33
02-08-2008, 09:22 PM
Fitz - I have to disagree with you on this one. We all owe a lot to Ray. Would this even be here if Ray hadn't started his?

<time out>
Sidebar:

The answer to this is Yes it would be... We started this group as a bunch(about 30 of us) of backyarders trying to learn how to cook on a New Braunfels Bandera..... this was all done before we even knew about the BBQ Forum.

<time in>

slat
02-08-2008, 10:11 PM
KC Bobby what I meant by a non issue is that this nepotism thing shouldn't even have been thought about. It really didn't need to become an issue for the BOD. They have better things to do than deal with something this petty.

Since it has become an issue, I like most everyone on this forum, want it to come to an end. This is wrong.

I support and thank Merl for what he is trying to do. I think it would go a long way to making the KCBS a much stronger organization.

KC_Bobby
02-08-2008, 11:48 PM
Yeap, then we're in agreement.

BBQchef33
02-08-2008, 11:50 PM
Just got a phone call from Roo-B with the results of the meeting. The motion was tabled until it can be amended and re-presented next month. Some BODs attempted to force a vote, but the resulting vote was to table it.

I got lots of other stuff, but dont want to risk paraphrasing or misquoting, so more details to follow in the morning by the folks that attended. Bottom line, status-quo till next month...

KC_Bobby
02-08-2008, 11:55 PM
I went. In reality, those were 4 very boring hours - yet a good experience.

Good discussions on sactioning some events and trying to keep events happy.

Revising some rules so they are written with a little more clarity. Nothing that changes anything any cook that is currently following the rules - just some wording. And some discussion about quit hours - til 7 am! I hope that means the organizers can't get on the megahorns earlier to announce they are serving breakfast every 5 minutes like they did at the Speedway last year.

About the only issue that raised some discussion with personal emotion was something about some nepotism thing. It had some minor discussion then it was voted to table it until the next meeting. Then their was some more discussion of some of the board members providing some opinions.

Then about 11:00 they went into some executive session regarding another matter and I said good bye. I needed to get home.

Plowboy
02-09-2008, 12:24 AM
Troy's motion was to table to topic and consider having a vote by the members. Paul Kirk seconded the motion. Because the motion was to table, no discussion was allowed by rule. The vote to table passed 6-4. Linda, Don, Merl, and Carol voted to resolve the issue at the meeting. Tana abstained stating that she wanted some discussion.

This didn't stop a burst of heated discussion after the vote.

Mike Lake is the new Pres. Rod Vice Pres. Merl Secretary.

It was a good experience to see our elected BOD in action. I have to say that the five of us there in the "gallery" never said a peep during the entire meeting. The same can't be said for the BOD. There was a fair amount of order, but lots of side discussions. Mike will do a good job of keeping order.

KC_Bobby
02-09-2008, 12:27 AM
Ohhh, and they voted for the officers.
Mike Lake is President
Rod Gray remains VP
Wayne Lohman remains Treasure
Merl Whitebook is Secretary

Merl
02-09-2008, 12:30 AM
First I do not want credit because it took a vote of the BOD, but last January Tony tossed members out of the meeting. It was my motion to allow members to attend. Until last February, members could not attend.

As for tonight,
Its sad the board would not give us an up or down vote. Troy made a motion to table the motion so he could provide all those who support his motion, (this battle continues 30 more days). The battle for the right to allow our members to have all candidates on the ballot and to cast your vote will continue. I am proud those who wrote the constitution of the US preserved this right for us the citizens of the United States of America.
Yours in Q
Merl

KC_Bobby
02-09-2008, 12:36 AM
Oh and bylaws should be on the site soon - possibly by Monday.

Plowboy
02-09-2008, 12:47 AM
Sorry that this is off topic, but I want to jump in here.

Fitz - I have to disagree with you on this one. We all owe a lot to Ray. Would this even be here if Ray hadn't started his? Would the KCBS be where it is today? And I don't mean this current mess. If he decides that the posts violate his rules and some certainly did then he can delete them. He certainly has built a business addition out of the Forum with ads but compared to the time he puts in ..... And people get cheap hosting for their sites.

I started advertising on the BBQ Forum this week. (For the record, I've offered to pay for space on the Brethren site, but that isn't Phil's model.) The rates are pretty cheap for the number of impressions you get. The point is that Ray isn't making as much as he could, and he knows it.

That's all I've got to say about that.

Two things to contribute here...

This forum would exist with or without Ray's forum. He had nothing to do with this forum being here, Ford.

Secondly, Ray is the advertising guy for the KCBS Web site. You want an ad there? You pay Ray for it. And they aren't cheap at all. Does he have anything to gain from all this stuff? You tell me.

MMA approached Ray to be the sales front end. I'm sure he gets a cut, but MMA sets the prices and KCBS gets the revenue. The rates for the KCBS ads are crazy high. Obviously, they want BIG names for their top banners. :eek:


<TIME IN>

BBQchef33
02-09-2008, 01:15 AM
if its all the same to you folk, can we not discuss business dealings of 'other' forums here.

its just wierd.

Plowboy
02-09-2008, 01:18 AM
if its all the same to you folk, can we not discuss business dealings of 'other' forums here.

its just wierd.

Aye, aye. :wink:

michiana mark
02-09-2008, 02:05 AM
Glad to see mr Black slowed that horse down. Now it's time to circle the smokers. Keep up the emails.

butcher_boy
02-09-2008, 02:36 AM
KCBS has a history of husband and wife on the Board together. Gary and Carolyn and at least on two other occations. There is nothing new but the difference in past the Board was a rubber stamp for what ever the leadership wanted to do, if you don't believe that talk to Ed Roith. Now KCBS has grown inspite of bad business policies and there are those on the Board that want the Board to be more responcive to the membership. Bad habits die hard and some don't want it to die.


Jim. You know I am a lucky guy. My first BBQ cook off that I judge was here in az. I got my picture taken with you, merl and carol all of us together. Great time. I was the drunken red head. :d

Ford
02-09-2008, 05:11 AM
Glad to see mr Black slowed that horse down. Now it's time to circle the smokers. Keep up the emails.
I'm betting he slowed it down to give himself time to get emails supporting the motion. In other words he didn't have any documented support for the motion. In a month he will gather emails and he will find people to support his position. When the agenda for next month is published we'll all need to email again to protest this motion.

Dale P
02-09-2008, 05:44 AM
This whole thing is a shame. It is obvious that the board is divided and that will make getting anything done almost impossible.
I am the master of the obvious.

ThomEmery
02-09-2008, 06:42 AM
Another 30 days of this?
I think most folks would love to get on with BBQ
and leave this behind

scottyd
02-09-2008, 06:45 AM
Well it takes it all out of the voting public,(members)the thinks it knows best for the members, the board feels it is doing the members wishes. it is up to we the people(members) to send our wishes to the board. Now that we can't talk about this on the other place(not mentioned here) as it will be deleted. We the people can not reach our members with out taking out an add in the Bull sheet. that will get to the members to Dam late anyway. So We the people (Members) are Farked again.

Now what we do have in our favor is the members in good standing here on this wonderful site. all of us brother's and sister's can do our part and send the BOD our thoughts and desires.

Thank you Phil

Scotty d

arlieque
02-09-2008, 06:46 AM
It is time to ask that the person bring this motion to the table be asked to resign and long overdue. The KCBS may never recover from the actions this person has brought upon this board with his wanting to be in power.

Scottie
02-09-2008, 07:05 AM
It is time to ask that the person bring this motion to the table be asked to resign and long overdue. The KCBS may never recover from the actions this person has brought upon this board with his wanting to be in power.

Boy are you right on with that Arlie. I personally think it was a kamikaze mission anyway. As that individual is all set up with trailers, trucks and sponsored trailers so what does he stand to lose? Except the confidence of the members with the 'actions' of the BOD... I hope people do not forget when it comes to election time. Especially for any BOD members that would actually vote yes for this motion.

It's a shame. As this person is supposedly the head of marketing of KCBS? I guess I didn't learn this kind of marketing in college... How can this be good for anything? I wonder what his 'sponsors' all think of this? Hmmmmm.

tonto1117
02-09-2008, 07:06 AM
I'm betting he slowed it down to give himself time to get emails supporting the motion. In other words he didn't have any documented support for the motion. In a month he will gather emails and he will find people to support his position. When the agenda for next month is published we'll all need to email again to protest this motion.


Another 30 days of this?


Unfortuatley yes. This is why it is so important that we stay vigilant in our efforts to not let this get swept under the rug. I am sure the 'powers that be' are counting on the membership not to persue this ill conceived resolution further and lose interest. As some of the BOD continue to garner support, we must keep our opposition voices loud, and be ready for the ill timing in which it will probably be presented.

arlieque
02-09-2008, 07:28 AM
Scottie, he is really under handed. It seems that four weeks before one contests was even sanctioned it was on his website that he would be there doing cooking demos. Now just who told him this was even in the works? Maybe a motion that if you are a board member then you cant cook contests would be a better motion as it would take away the look of board members being on the board to gain financially. I hope that all the members will band together to see that this doesnt pass. I have also seen Mr. Black first hand lie to Carolyn Wells with witnesses and she was told yesterday by many in the bbq industry that it is time for him to go. The KCBS by not doing anything with the email passed around by John Ross has also opened the door for all its members to do the same about its own board memebrs when it come time to elect new officers. This board has to be held to higher standards!!!!

watertowerbbq
02-09-2008, 09:30 AM
I sent the following e-mail to the BOD this morning.

BOD Members,

While I was glad to see that the motion regarding nepotism was tabled last night, I was disappointed that the motion was not voted upon and defeated. I think it is important to remember the fundamentals on which the Kansas City BBQ Society was created.

A husband and wife were part of the group which founded KCBS. To now think that it is inappropriate to have family members serving on the BOD is difficult to comprehend.

It is also difficult to understand why it is so hard for members who donít live in the Kansas City area to find out about what is going on with the BOD except when the minutes are printed in the Bullsheet. If we have the money to hire MMA, we should have money available to make podcasts of the BOD meeting or stream them on the KCBS website. We never needed MMA to begin with. The best recruiters and ambassadors of Q are the members of KCBS. We are the ones on the front lines promoting BBQ to friends, family and neighbors in our home towns and at the contests that we enter, judge and promote.

Please draw upon the common ground that you as a group have and put aside any personal differences and do what is best for the membership of KCBS. If you think about where and how KCBS started, it is easy to see why the motion should be defeated and the contract with MMA should run itís course and not be renewed. Thank you.

Matt Clark
KCBS CBJ
Iowa BBQ Society
Head Cook Water Tower BBQ.

bbqczar
02-09-2008, 09:30 AM
I am not sure what all it takes for a recall of Troy Black ,but how does one go about starting one.I agree with Arlie,if this kind of garbage is going on and Mr. Black no longer has any integrity, then it is time to get him off the board.How does the recall system work in KCBS ? How do we,the members ,get the ball rolling ?

Plowboy
02-09-2008, 09:57 AM
Troy talked about being really beat up about this and (literally) pointed the finger at Carol as the root calling her untruthful. He said that this was never about removing her from office as her emails have stated.

The board didn't seem as divided on this as it would seem from outside of the meeting. I didn't sense that a lot of people were instantly on board with it. The only reason I can see that most wanted to table the motion is because it became so volatile among the membership and the motion came in so late. The couple hundred emails received by each BOD greatly impacted the events last night.

Ford
02-09-2008, 10:19 AM
The only reason I can see that most wanted to table the motion is because it became so volatile among the membership and the motion came in so late. The couple hundred emails received by each BOD greatly impacted the events last night.
Sounds to me like we need to band together and get the agenda as soon as it' available and discuss issues here and get an email campaign going. Same thing if we see something that passed without our knowledge we should question where it was on the agenda and push for a revote if needed.

Ford
02-09-2008, 10:47 AM
So I still think the motion sucks but a lot has been said and I am not seeing evidence that Troy has done anything other than having a personal conflict with other BOD mdmbers.

The MMA site in no way mentions Troy and so far as I see they don't represent him.

The following links give you a little more info about Troy and his BBQ business. Looks like he's got a little DR BBQ in him with the classes/school and a little Mike Davis. One thing I will say is that I think I have nearly as many ribbons as he has and I've been doing this for less time and as a hobby not full time. Click around both sites for info.

http://www.learn2q.com/

http://www.southernliving.com/southern/inside_sl/07/07bbq_web/bio.html

Spydermike72
02-09-2008, 10:58 AM
Ohhh, and they voted for the officers.
Mike Lake is President
Rod Gray remains VP
Wayne Lohman remains Treasure
Merl Whitebook is Secretary

Congrats to Mike Lake, Rod Gray and Merl Whitebook, all standup guys in my book.

Mutha Chicken BBQ
02-09-2008, 11:30 AM
Sounds to me like we need to band together and get the agenda as soon as it' available and discuss issues here and get an email campaign going. Same thing if we see something that passed without our knowledge we should question where it was on the agenda and push for a revote if needed.


Mabey that should be a motion, That all KCBS registered members in good standing recieve, Via E-mail. An agenda. So that all members can be made aware of any impending changes that will directly impact them?

Ford
02-09-2008, 11:34 AM
Mabey that should be a motion, That all KCBS registered members in good standing recieve, Via E-mail. An agenda. So that all members can be made aware of any impending changes that will directly impact them?
That's a lot of work for somebody and people could say that members may not have email. Of course only 2 people requested paper ballots for the election. I'd be happy to see it on the KCBS website 72 hours before the meeting.

motoeric
02-09-2008, 11:35 AM
I believe that www.ustream.tv will host your feed live and for free. So if anyone has a laptop and a wireless card that is willing to attend the meetings, we should be able to get to see what happens. I believe they even archive old broadcasts.

Eric

bbqbull
02-09-2008, 11:46 AM
Congrats to Mike Lake, Rod Gray and Merl Whitebook, all standup guys in my book.


I agree with this statement wholeheartedly.:biggrin:

timzcardz
02-09-2008, 11:58 AM
Mabey that should be a motion, That all KCBS registered members in good standing recieve, Via E-mail. An agenda. So that all members can be made aware of any impending changes that will directly impact them?

Or, it would be much simpler for them to just post it their website.

Mutha Chicken BBQ
02-09-2008, 12:25 PM
Ya know I have often wondered why KCBS does not have their own Forum. Guess I know why now. They really wouldn't want anyone to know what is really going on when some things come up.

Plus they would have there own police Dogs and woudn't allow any talk other than how great MMA and KCBS are!

YankeeBBQ
02-09-2008, 12:28 PM
Hey Plowboy or Roo,

Did the BOD explain why they had to go into executive session to hear the MMA report? I really don't understand all the Secrecy.

BBQchef33
02-09-2008, 12:51 PM
Admin note.

I have received a good amount of emails thanking me for allowoing the open discussion in our forum. Don't thank me, you folks are doing a great job in keeping it real and civil. There has been absolutly no reason to shut anything or anyone down.

All I ask is that we don't take the path of naming individuals in a negative light based on hearsay. Opinions are allowed, free discussion is fine but please keep the topics factual, avoid speculation and PLEASE refrain from anything slanderous. I'd appreciate if naming names is kept to a minimum(he, they, someone..ok), unless it is presented as fact that can be proven publicly.

We strive to keep our forum a safe haven. I am not asking for anyone to check their thoughts or opinions, just to try not to just bash without solution. There is alot of strong feelings flying here and this is great discussion, but has potential to turn ugly if we start targeting individuals based on speculation, mob mentality, or an escalation of one or two people opinions that incited others.

Myself included, have at times got caught up in a feeding frenzy. Keep that in the back of your minds and be cognizant of where the basis of your thoughts originate. Is it fact, someone opinions, or one view of the bridge where you have not seen it from the other side.

Just food for thought guys. Great job policing yourselves here. So far, so good. Please continue..

Jeff_in_KC
02-09-2008, 01:04 PM
I have a solution Phil. The next email campaign needs to be a call for Troy Black to resign from the BOD. In EVERYTHING I've read here, it appears to me that most negative issues come back to him. I know there's a chit storm going on right now and I personally feel that if Mr. Black would resign his position with the Board, a lot of it would go away. Until there is cohesiveness and support within the BOD, nothing will get accomplished. so then what's the point of having a board?

Mr. Black, I call upon you to do the right thing and resign.

On a more positive note, I an THRILLED that Mike Lake was elected President of the KCBS! Congratulations, Mike. I hope you will hold this thing together.

Roo-B-Q'N
02-09-2008, 01:13 PM
Hey Plowboy or Roo,

Did the BOD explain why they had to go into executive session to hear the MMA report? I really don't understand all the Secrecy.

They did go into executive session twice last night and we of course left the chambers. They can only go into Executive Session when a matter of personnel or contract is involved. They went in once during the MMA report due to contractural business and once at the end of the meeting regarding a personnel issue brought up via a letter by Tony Stone.

I do not have much to add that has not been already said by Plowboy and K C Bobby. I would like to say however that I found the meeting to be very informative and eye opening as to the real dealings of the BOD. If you think you are getting the real info by reading the minutes in the Bullsheet you are very mistaken. For me it took being in the chambers and seeing the body language and looks of all BOD members while interacting with one another. Some hightlights:

1. The $25.00 non-KCBS fee was not voted on though they did decide to make their position more clear and educate the organizers further on this policy. They felt the 8 of the 230 + contest that are doing this would be slighted if they reversed themselves. I believe they all missed the point of this matter, and that is that the organizers were/are against this because they did not have the tools to properly implement the program and KCBS could not tell them where to turn for these tools. I do not think it was ever the $25.00. So now they have contest charging anwhere from $25-$50 dollars more and still have no plans other than to tell the organizers this is all voluntary. I told Merl last night, that this also leaves me available to advertise that I am cooker friendly across the board with no penalty for not being a KCBS member. I think this would make other contests look bad and therefore the BOD has left them out to dry now.

2. As Merl and now Carol have taken on the chore to get member access to the BOD meetings via phone participation. This was shot down on a technicality that Carol made put the motion on the agenda without being a member of the board when she did so ( she was made a full member last night ). Rod Gray lead this one. However, he felt as did Troy Black, Steve Ownby, and Wayne Lohman that Mike McCloud from MMA should be allowed to stay on the phone call for it's duration because Mr. McCloud gives a marketing report. This lead to a discussion whereas it was determined that he should provide his report and then be disconnected from the meeting.

3. Judge's taking home food from contests. This was left up to the organizers and letters to the organizers from KCBS will stress the importance of food safety. This was talked about and while the rules committee meeting at the banquet leaned heavily to do away with this, the attendees of the organizers roundtable found this to not be a kcbs issue but an organizers issues.

4. As more contests are being held, weekends are filling up and date conflicts are going to become more and more of an issue. This is going to get tricky for the board and one that I will be watching.

5. The nepotism issues is not dead. I believe Troy did not have the backing last night to do anything, and wanted more time get his side shored up. They spent hours last night amending motions for just about every issue at hand, but Tony refused to amend his motion saying he wants to have a referendum brought up to the membership to resolve this. some discussion was had and most of it heated. Paul Kirk felt that if this issues was to be brought before the board, the Whitebooks would have to be grandfathered in as it would not be fair to them. But all of you are correct, this is not dead. Overall, I would agree with Don Harwell, in that he said with Troy's motion he hass effectively split this board and much to the detriment of the whole society.

I guess I did have more to say and I apologize for such a long post. It was a draining evening and I have respect for the board for their service, for they are also in workshops today.

Edit: Phil and or mods after reading Phil's post above feel free to blow this away if you feel it is not proper.

Yakfishingfool
02-09-2008, 01:30 PM
I have a solution Phil. The next email campaign needs to be a call for Troy Black to resign from the BOD. In EVERYTHING I've read here, it appears to me that most negative issues come back to him. I know there's a chit storm going on right now and I personally feel that if Mr. Black would resign his position with the Board, a lot of it would go away. Until there is cohesiveness and support within the BOD, nothing will get accomplished. so then what's the point of having a board?

Mr. Black, I call upon you to do the right thing and resign.

On a more positive note, I an THRILLED that Mike Lake was elected President of the KCBS! Congratulations, Mike. I hope you will hold this thing together.

Removal of a BOD member is not an easy thing to do. It should probalby come from another BOD member or BOD group of members that feel so strongly that an individual is harming the corporation with intent. I'm sure the by-laws cover it, haven't read it in detail. As members we need to keep an ongoing conversation with all the BOD members expressing our feelings of how things are going and concerns we have with both positive and negative issues. Scott

BBQchef33
02-09-2008, 02:00 PM
removal or resignation of a board member will allow an 'appointment' of another by the existing board. This may or may not be someone we voted for..

AsstChief7
02-09-2008, 02:06 PM
Here you go:

Section 4.07 Removal; Vacancies:

A director may be removed, with cause, upon the affirmative vote of a majority of the directors. Any vacancy in the Board of Directors resulting from any cause whatsoever may be filled by a majority of the remaining directors at the next regular meeting and will fulfill the balance of the vacated term. Fulfilling this term will not count toward the directorís limit of two consecutive three-year terms.

River City Smokehouse
02-09-2008, 03:25 PM
He should just resign and save a lot of hard feelings that might be created in the end. I'm with you on tha one Jeff. I will be putting a letter together.

Plowboy
02-09-2008, 04:32 PM
Being at the BOD meeting, you get to see the members that are effective and ineffective. There are BOTH. There are some fairly popular people on the board that I saw contribute nothing... though their lips moved a lot. Having access to BOD meetings would definitely change how many vote. Eye opening.

For those of you in the NE... Linda is a gem!!! IMHO, she serves all of us well.

arlieque
02-09-2008, 05:30 PM
The person in question will never resign, he isnt man enough! As for the board members there are some great people there but cant they hear the voice of KCBS's members when we speak!

widespread
02-09-2008, 05:37 PM
For those of you in the NE... Linda is a gem!!! IMHO, she serves all of us well.
I couldn't agree more. Linda had the unpleasant task of telling us our chicken was DQ'ed at the Bridgeton, NJ comp then gave us a half hour of her time after the awards ceremony to discuss some things with us and to get our feedback on what we thought of the judge's comment cards for the cooks. She's a real class act and I'm glad she's on the BOD.

QansasjayhawQ
02-09-2008, 06:43 PM
Wow. 130 posts. I admit I didn't read through each of them . . . but I've always been for allowing the members to choose their board of directors, no matter which organization it is.

I understand the nepotism rules and why they exist. (Hmm - could say something here, but I won't.)

But the bottom line should always be what the people vote for.

AND - our elected officials should always be happy to take our comments under consideration, even if they clash with their own personal views.

Just like American politics, the majority SHOULD rule . . .

Spydermike72
02-10-2008, 06:23 AM
Just like American politics, the majority SHOULD rule . . .

There is a reason the United States is a Federal Republic....

ThomEmery
02-10-2008, 06:27 AM
Being at the BOD meeting, you get to see the members that are effective and ineffective. There are BOTH. There are some fairly popular people on the board that I saw contribute nothing... though their lips moved a lot. Having access to BOD meetings would definitely change how many vote. Eye opening.

For those of you in the NE... Linda is a gem!!! IMHO, she serves all of us well.

Yes being well known and being a effective BoD member are not the same thing

ThomEmery
02-10-2008, 07:29 AM
This whole thing is a shame. It is obvious that the board is divided and that will make getting anything done almost impossible.
I am the master of the obvious.

I agree with you Brother

arlieque
02-10-2008, 08:07 AM
I agree with you Brother

Thanks for contacting the board!

motoeric
02-11-2008, 02:55 PM
I wanted to pipe in again and let people know that I received three responses to my email regarding the proposed Nepotism policy.

I didn't expect any responses, especially in light of the huge amount emails that the Board received, so I was pleasantly surprised by that three.

Eric

Jeff_in_KC
02-11-2008, 08:07 PM
Just curious... any of you gettings responses... were any of them from Troy Black? Neither of my two were.

Ford
02-11-2008, 08:37 PM
Troy has responeded to me.

BBQchef33
02-11-2008, 10:47 PM
i got a few that were acknowledgments and 'i will take it under consideration" type of stuff.

drbbq
02-12-2008, 06:11 AM
Troy has responeded to me.

You gonna tell us what he said?

Ford
02-12-2008, 06:23 AM
Troy conformed that his tour is a Southern Living thing and has nothing to do with the KCBS or with MMA. So as I stated earlier I don't see a conflict of interest with that. He asked that I keep the contests of the email between the two of us so the first sentence here is really just a clarification of an earlier post I made.

Scottie
02-12-2008, 06:44 AM
That is just funny... This is the same guy, as marketing man of the KCBS voluntaily stepped up to be the KCBS representative when he was interviewed on tv in Kansas City for the Royal last fall. I mean, probably no one from KC was available? Not even any other Board members?

I don't beielieve what anyone says unless they sign a Disclsure Statement. As it has already been ackowledged that he and MMA had worked together. Why should we think it was only one thing that they worked on for him? Would it make him so infuriated that he would resign from the Board and then say that he didn't really do it? But then realize that he was on the hot seat and want back on the BOD? Then get revenge by targeting his main rival?

So you want to believe this email?

I'm not saying, I am just saying....

MilitantSquatter
02-12-2008, 06:54 AM
Guys - Please see Phil's post # 175 as a reminder so this does not get out of control regarding this one particular BOD member and any potential side deals/projects they may have with the KCBS marketing arm.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showpost.php?p=557037&postcount=175


All I ask is that we don't take the path of naming individuals in a negative light based on hearsay. Opinions are allowed, free discussion is fine but please keep the topics factual, avoid speculation and PLEASE refrain from anything slanderous. I'd appreciate if naming names is kept to a minimum(he, they, someone..ok), unless it is presented as fact that can be proven publicly.

We strive to keep our forum a safe haven. I am not asking for anyone to check their thoughts or opinions, just to try not to just bash without solution. There is alot of strong feelings flying here and this is great discussion, but has potential to turn ugly if we start targeting individuals based on speculation, mob mentality, or an escalation of one or two people opinions that incited others.

lunchlady
02-12-2008, 06:58 AM
I just wanted to everyone know that I also sent a well-thought out e-mail to every member of the BoD regarding the 'nepotism' issue before the last BoD meeting. I received four e-mails in return, each thanking me for my opinion and my e-mail, and I was assured that it would be brought before the board.

While I vehemently do not agree with the proposed motion, I have to agree with the idea of WHY it was brought up. IF a large amount of KCBS members did bring this to a BoD member's attention (Troy or ANYONE else) then that BoD member should bring it before the BoD for discussion at least. Isn't that what we are all complaining about? Having the members voices HEARD at BoD meetings.
If that is what actually happened, then I can't be upset about it, as long as it was a good amount of members who had an issue with it. Personally, I have pledged to the NEBS membership (as part of my election and re-election platforms) that I would bring ANY issue back to our BoD so that they would have a better understanding of the general memberships opinion.
I don't think a 'call for resignation' would be appropriate at all if he was honestly and rightfully bringing member opinions to the BoD.

Honestly folks, I wasn't gong to send any e-mails or anything, I was going to just sit on my butt and watch to see what happened. UNTIL I saw Phil's post about it. If almost 500 of us did vote for Phil, then that seems to me to be a large percentage of the KCBS membership, even if it is regional.

The only way to get them to hear us is if we tell them. Write your e-mails and let them know how you feel.

ThomEmery
02-12-2008, 08:02 AM
Removal is a option

arlieque
02-12-2008, 08:20 AM
Problem is I do believe there was only one letter sent. That letter should have been read to the board as is. The author of that letter was in the KCBS agenda and the board member in question took the letter and turned it all around as the author agrees. The board member in question is in bed sorta speaking on many issues. MMA as I have been told were paid to build his website and both his and the new KCBS trailer are at the same place in Tennessee being worked on per him. Also he has had information on his website about contests that no one would even know about unless MMA told him about it. If removal is a option as Thom states it would be a good one. There is a huge conflict of interest with being on the board and doing so much outside work and gaining so much information from MMA. Also from the looks of two different polls the members have spoken, lets see if the BOD listens.

Roo-B-Q'N
02-12-2008, 08:24 AM
I just wanted to everyone know that I also sent a well-thought out e-mail to every member of the BoD regarding the 'nepotism' issue before the last BoD meeting. I received four e-mails in return, each thanking me for my opinion and my e-mail, and I was assured that it would be brought before the board.

While I vehemently do not agree with the proposed motion, I have to agree with the idea of WHY it was brought up. IF a large amount of KCBS members did bring this to a BoD member's attention (Troy or ANYONE else) then that BoD member should bring it before the BoD for discussion at least. Isn't that what we are all complaining about? Having the members voices HEARD at BoD meetings.
If that is what actually happened, then I can't be upset about it, as long as it was a good amount of members who had an issue with it. Personally, I have pledged to the NEBS membership (as part of my election and re-election platforms) that I would bring ANY issue back to our BoD so that they would have a better understanding of the general memberships opinion.
I don't think a 'call for resignation' would be appropriate at all if he was honestly and rightfully bringing member opinions to the BoD.

Honestly folks, I wasn't gong to send any e-mails or anything, I was going to just sit on my butt and watch to see what happened. UNTIL I saw Phil's post about it. If almost 500 of us did vote for Phil, then that seems to me to be a large percentage of the KCBS membership, even if it is regional.

The only way to get them to hear us is if we tell them. Write your e-mails and let them know how you feel.


Michelle, bringing it to the boards attention for discussion is one thing, putting a motion on the agenda for a vote is an entirely different thing.

Plowboy
02-12-2008, 08:36 AM
almost 500 of us did vote for Phil, then that seems to me to be a large percentage of the KCBS membership, even if it is regional.


I assure you it wasn't regional... those 500 were national votes. :eusa_clap

I've had the pleasure of meeting Phil, talking with Phil, drinking with Phil, and dining with Phil on several occasions in the last 18 months or so. Love him or leave him... you get what you get. As I'm sitting in the board meeting last Friday, I couldn't help wishing Phil was sitting there, especially instead of a couple ineffective folks.

Scottie
02-12-2008, 09:20 AM
Guys - Please see Phil's post # 175 as a reminder so this does not get out of control regarding this one particular BOD member and any potential side deals/projects they may have with the KCBS marketing arm.


Sorry, I thought I was stating facts and not hearsay. As this has all been reported in KCBS minutes. My bad if I did something wrong.

Scottie

BBQchef33
02-12-2008, 09:57 AM
Nope Scottie, I dont think MS was typing specifically to you, just in general.

As I'm sitting in the board meeting last Friday, I couldn't help wishing Phil was sitting there, especially instead of a couple ineffective folks.

In all honesty, with all the nonsense and drama going down, I think i can be more effective, and make more impact here, in The Brethren and with The Brethren, and make more stuff happen than if I were on on the board. We will see what next year brings, but for now, the arm chair quarterback in me is relieved. Keeping in mind that the 'charter' of KCBS and The brethren, are somewhat similar, IMO, more can be done here, without all the politics than within KCBS. We are fulfilling a charter of promoting and teaching BBQ while enjoying the camaraderie formed within the group. we're not fighting and arguing and pointing fingers. Its just counterproductive. Hopefully this will all blow over and they can get back to business and work cohesively.

We get 10-15 new members a day and a high percentage come in and say because of us, they have improved the craft, or with our help, they have decided to break into competing. When I see that, I feel we have accomplished something. I dont think I, or we, would make as big of a difference as quickly to the individual, if i was sitting in a board room. Not to say that we would not make an impact, but seeing this stuff now, makes it somewhat of a relief that I'm NOT there. Phew.. just missed. :)

KC_Bobby
02-12-2008, 10:05 AM
Phew.. just missed. :)

This time. You might not be so fortunate next year. :eusa_clap

HoDeDo
02-12-2008, 10:37 AM
Phil-
I know in hind sight, seeing how broken things actually are, it would definately be alot to take on -- and you don't want to hinder what you have going here.
I buy that 100%. The Brethren does make an impact on folks. I know I can say that I've made a lot of friends all over the country. I've got a GREAT sounding board for ideas. And I've enjoyed the times we have gotten to hang out too - besides, my daughter is ready for another dinner date :cool:

I'm selfish, I wouldn't want our forum to suffer while you were focused on KCBS. Having said that - I'll vote for you if you run again next year 8-)

Thanks again for what ya do..... talk about membership benefits.:icon_bigsmil

Arlin_MacRae
02-12-2008, 06:25 PM
I got responses from Merl and Rod Gray

ThomEmery
02-12-2008, 08:53 PM
Does anyone know how an Election of Removal could be initiated if this does not stop?
It is legal by MO. state law I am told

arlieque
02-12-2008, 08:58 PM
Well any vote of the members has been taken away in a move that doesnt allow the members to vote, only the board members as I understand it. I suggest that we have to get the bylaws amended again to allow the members to have a say!

jminion
02-12-2008, 11:30 PM
The BOD has to listen when they get this kind of reaction. The kind of numbers of people speaking out has to count or the Board proves they are are not listening. Keep talking and sending e-mails.

Spydermike72
02-13-2008, 08:56 AM
Just curious... any of you gettings responses... were any of them from Troy Black? Neither of my two were.

I got 2 responses, Merl and Rod.