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The Giggler
08-28-2007, 01:15 PM
Anyone have any suggestions on competition brisket? We're just not happy with what we've had for turn ins. Time to experiment, maybe even get radical.

If anyone has anything they would be willing to share, we sure would appreciate it. Its three long years since we got a call in brisket.

Sincerely,

Mike
Giggling Pigs BBQ Co

YankeeBBQ
08-28-2007, 01:17 PM
Didn't you take our class ?

Anyone have any suggestions on competition brisket? We're just not happy with what we've had for turn ins. Time to experiment, maybe even get radical.

If anyone has anything they would be willing to share, we sure would appreciate it. Its three long years since we got a call in brisket.

Sincerely,

Mike
Giggling Pigs BBQ Co

Jorge
08-28-2007, 01:20 PM
Didn't you take our class ?

Are you sure that's the advertising you want:wink:

The Giggler
08-28-2007, 01:26 PM
Yeah, we did really well with the chicken portion:) Really, we did learn alot in the brisket category portion too. The problem I have is that even following the recipe to the T - the cookers are different, and the stick burner keeps turning out a bone dry result (from which I can deduct that its a dryer environment). We've been messing around with the trim, rub, etc. Putting it out there for suggestions....

Got a beauty to do up this weekend. And selected the competition briskets for aging this very morning. Great looking stuff - best I've seen all year. Just hope I don't kill it in the process.

Papa Hogg
08-28-2007, 01:32 PM
Are you sure that's the advertising you want:wink:

Attend the Yankee BBQ Cooking class and you won't get a call again...Sign me up :lol:

ique
08-28-2007, 01:34 PM
Turn up the heat. Try Cooking at 275-300
Put the fat cap between your brisket and the heat. For a stickburner that probably means fat down.
Wrap it in foil with a cup of flavorful liquid after ~165* internal or good bark has formed
Pull it at 188*
Rest in a cambro for 4 hours, wrapped in foil, fat cap up



Anyone have any suggestions on competition brisket? We're just not happy with what we've had for turn ins. Time to experiment, maybe even get radical.

If anyone has anything they would be willing to share, we sure would appreciate it. Its three long years since we got a call in brisket.

Sincerely,

Mike
Giggling Pigs BBQ Co

Jorge
08-28-2007, 01:41 PM
Attend the Yankee BBQ Cooking class and you won't get a call again...Sign me up :lol:

I'm still bent about not making it. I've got a nice credit with Southwest from the trip I couldn't take for that class!

The Giggler
08-28-2007, 01:41 PM
All kinding aside, we've participated in a few comp classes - Yankee's was by far the most informative. We had a great time, and gained much more knowledge than the others.

One thing I have found is that cooking on an offset is different than what we have learned on in classes. Besides, our brisket has been struggling since our best finish of 5th in 2004.

Did you have any suggestions?....:)

Dustaway
08-28-2007, 01:57 PM
have you tried painting your slice's with a mix of head country and apple juice?

YankeeBBQ
08-28-2007, 02:00 PM
All kinding aside, we've participated in a few comp classes - Yankee's was by far the most informative. We had a great time, and gained much more knowledge than the others.

One thing I have found is that cooking on an offset is different than what we have learned on in classes. Besides, our brisket has been struggling since our best finish of 5th in 2004.

Did you have any suggestions?....:)

Well if you can figure out a cooking process on your offset the same flavor profile should come in handy. What are you doing now that is turning out bad, maybe if we know that we can help you adjust.

The Giggler
08-28-2007, 02:37 PM
Anthony - thanks for the suggestion. I'll give the HC with apple a go.

Thanks Chris for the suggestion of keeping the fat cap b/t the heat and the meat. We'll give that a try too.

In terms of the process, the brisket is cooked fat side up until 165, then wrapped in a flavorful liquid until hitting 195, its pulled from the cooker, and sent for a nap until we are ready for slicing.

It looks good during the whole process, and gets a spray of apple juice after two hours, and every hour until foil.

Here's what I don't understand: it gets sliced, looks super moist, and within a couple minutes you need a chaser to get it down. The flavor is getting lost in the dryness, which we can't seem to get past.

I agree with you Steve, the flavor model is proven. Even modifying the trim, we're still missing something.

Our local is just around the corner, and in 2005 we got RGC. 2006 we got blanked. Trying to make a strong showing.

butts a fire
08-28-2007, 04:09 PM
You might want to try pulling it at a bit lower temp For me 195 is too high we normally pull closer to 190. I also cook fat cap up.

Jorge
08-28-2007, 04:37 PM
Temps will get you in the ballpark but I'd give it a poke or two to see if it is ready to be pulled early. Wrapping and adding something tasty and moist is great, but if left too long you can still dry the meat out. I've boiled the moisture out of more than one brisket and turned it into sawdust that way.

The_Kapn
08-28-2007, 04:49 PM
A lot of good suggestions above.
We never have dry brisket, but we inject.

Take a look a post #10 in the roadmap thread for Brisket.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13677

TIM

Bigmista
08-28-2007, 06:36 PM
Anthony - thanks for the suggestion. I'll give the HC with apple a go.

Thanks Chris for the suggestion of keeping the fat cap b/t the heat and the meat. We'll give that a try too.

In terms of the process, the brisket is cooked fat side up until 165, then wrapped in a flavorful liquid until hitting 195, its pulled from the cooker, and sent for a nap until we are ready for slicing.

It looks good during the whole process, and gets a spray of apple juice after two hours, and every hour until foil.

Here's what I don't understand: it gets sliced, looks super moist, and within a couple minutes you need a chaser to get it down. The flavor is getting lost in the dryness, which we can't seem to get past.

I agree with you Steve, the flavor model is proven. Even modifying the trim, we're still missing something.

Our local is just around the corner, and in 2005 we got RGC. 2006 we got blanked. Trying to make a strong showing.

Are you injecting it? If so, maybe try injecting it again right before you foil it...

The Pickled Pig
08-28-2007, 08:27 PM
We've learned to pull the brisket sooner than most (usually anything above 180 works) because it continues cooking in the dry cooler. Typically we have 2 briskets and 4 butts triple wrapped in foil resting in a cooler for up to 6 hours before slicing and all of that heat keeps cooking the meat. Before we made that adjustment, our briskets were consistently dry after slicing. Also, consider using a Fab B injection. The phosphates seem to hold moisture after slicing.

River City Smokehouse
08-28-2007, 11:52 PM
Turn up the heat. Try Cooking at 275-300
Put the fat cap between your brisket and the heat. For a stickburner that probably means fat down.
Wrap it in foil with a cup of flavorful liquid after ~165* internal or good bark has formed
Pull it at 188*
Rest in a cambro for 4 hours, wrapped in foil, fat cap up

I think 188* may be a little high. I like to pull mine at 187*, dontcha know!:mrgreen:

Sawdustguy
08-29-2007, 02:45 AM
Turn up the heat. Try Cooking at 275-300
Put the fat cap between your brisket and the heat. For a stickburner that probably means fat down.
Wrap it in foil with a cup of flavorful liquid after ~165* internal or good bark has formed
Pull it at 188*
Rest in a cambro for 4 hours, wrapped in foil, fat cap up

Oh, how I do love my Cambro! One of the best investments I have ever made. The next Que toy I will save my schekels for is one of those vacuum marinators.

The Giggler
08-29-2007, 08:06 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. We do inject with Fab B. I saw a post about an alternative product comparable to Fab B being marketed by a Brethren, and can't seem to locate it now. Any info available is appreciated.

I will be cooking one this weekend, and will pull @ 185, triple wrap, n' rest. Fat cap down, injected, and rubbed. For finishing, we're going to try a couple different concoctions. I'll report how it turns out, and if I can figure it out - post some pictures.

We've got 4 more weeks of trial and error. Its a good thing we like brisket. Thanks again for all the responses.

Mike.

Bigmista
08-29-2007, 09:19 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. We do inject with Fab B. I saw a post about an alternative product comparable to Fab B being marketed by a Brethren, and can't seem to locate it now. Any info available is appreciated.

.

Try Le Gout Au Jus mix.

smoke-n-my-i's
08-29-2007, 06:30 PM
Anyone have any suggestions on competition brisket? We're just not happy with what we've had for turn ins. Time to experiment, maybe even get radical.

If anyone has anything they would be willing to share, we sure would appreciate it. Its three long years since we got a call in brisket.

Sincerely,

Mike
Giggling Pigs BBQ Co

Maybe it's time to look back at what you used to do, what did you change to not get the calls, and rethink, "Am I still doing as good as I did?"

Sometimes it's best to stay with the basics and not try to go with so many different changes too fast.... I did, and went back to what I was doing and then made one small change at a time until I found what I wanted... And remember, if you get a fantastic one, and you do the exact same thing to another one, they may not come out the same.... brisket is stubborn...

Bill

Thawley
08-31-2007, 01:11 PM
Turn up the heat. Try Cooking at 275-300
Put the fat cap between your brisket and the heat. For a stickburner that probably means fat down.
Wrap it in foil with a cup of flavorful liquid after ~165* internal or good bark has formed
Pull it at 188*
Rest in a cambro for 4 hours, wrapped in foil, fat cap up

So... Just how far is it safe to go just to get some good bark? I never seem to get any bark near the 165* mark. Maybe I'm cookin' too low (300* initial/225* after the first hour or two...)

Bentley
08-31-2007, 09:48 PM
Inject it with bacon drippings!

The Giggler
09-02-2007, 07:43 AM
Got the brisket trimmed, seasoned, and on the cooker @ 7:30. Fat cap down. Will foil wrap with liquid @ 165. Pull to rest @ 185. Will post the results. Appreciate everyone's input.

pigmaker23
09-02-2007, 08:44 AM
Mike, you going to Oinktoberfest ?

The Giggler
09-04-2007, 04:37 PM
Eric - Yup, we're going. Wouldn't miss it as it is currently the closest one to home. Looking forward to seeing you and Ray. This year will be a little different - NO VENDING (WHOO WHO!)

Here's the result:

Got fire in the pit @ 7AM. Skipped the Fab B injection (expensive, and have enough left for OINK, and Ohio Smoked Meat Fest if Steve calls me back....) Used Dave Klose's Championship Brisket Rub. 7:30 AM meat on fat side down @ 225 (never flipped it). Left it til 10:30, then basted with veggie oil mixed with rub. Continued to baste every hour until it hit 165. Separated point from flat, wrapped in triple foil with flavorful liquid (Lipton Onion Soup Mix). Put point back on w/o foil, flat in foil, till the flat hit 188. Stored in hot box for two hours. Scraped onions off meat, and sliced @ b/t 3/16-1/4". Did not sauce, and served.

We had a small party and bonfire. Most everyone is used to sampling, and knows to pull the slice apart to check tenderness. Overall, I felt like the meat was cooked well, had excellent flavor, and was not dry at all. A fellow Pig, thought his piece was a little on the dry side (appreciated his honesty). The feedback was pretty positive, and I couldn't believe that it wasn't a piece of shoe leather with the fat cap down.

Kept the crown/point for lunch this week - it was good too.

We're going to try another one this weekend, and vary the rub and flavorful liquid. Thanks again for all the input. The judges will have their say @ Oinktoberfest.

Jeff Hughes
09-04-2007, 06:06 PM
Thanks for the suggestions. We do inject with Fab B. I saw a post about an alternative product comparable to Fab B being marketed by a Brethren, and can't seem to locate it now. Any info available is appreciated.

I will be cooking one this weekend, and will pull @ 185, triple wrap, n' rest. Fat cap down, injected, and rubbed. For finishing, we're going to try a couple different concoctions. I'll report how it turns out, and if I can figure it out - post some pictures.

We've got 4 more weeks of trial and error. Its a good thing we like brisket. Thanks again for all the responses.

Mike.

I don't know if he is a Brethren, but David with Butcher BBQ has a similar product which is doing very well. Merl took 1st in Brisket in his second contest using it. Others have done well with it too.

His number 405dash205dash3270


BTW, I cook on the same pit as you. Fat side down is for sure the way to go.

BBQchef33
09-04-2007, 06:12 PM
The problem I have is that even following the recipe to the T - the cookers are different, and the stick burner keeps turning out a bone dry result (from which I can deduct that its a dryer environment)..

ok boss...

Sorry, but thew old addage "its the COOK not the COOKER" floats both ways.

Stick burners dont dry out briskets. I got 6 top 3 calls in the last 8 contests(not including my DQ for being late). Some were cooked in my BYC, others in WSMs.

Tell us how u cookem, do u foil? what temp, or feel do u pull them? Whatcha doing?

Jeff_in_KC
09-04-2007, 07:08 PM
I still believe FAB B dries a brisket out more than it helps it.

clubjoe
09-04-2007, 08:14 PM
I really don't like the flavor the Fab B gives the meat either.

The Giggler
09-05-2007, 08:49 AM
ok boss...

Sorry, but thew old addage "its the COOK not the COOKER" floats both ways.

Stick burners dont dry out briskets. I got 6 top 3 calls in the last 8 contests(not including my DQ for being late). Some were cooked in my BYC, others in WSMs.

Tell us how u cookem, do u foil? what temp, or feel do u pull them? Whatcha doing?

PooBah,

You are right - its the cook not the cooker. I am not at all saying that a stick burner will dry out a brisket. Any cook is capable of that. The method that I learned at a class, did not yield the same result on my Klose vs BWS. The only variable being the type of cooker.

All the other ingredients were the same, EXCEPT I did cook fat side up and dried that puppy out. The results were much better cooking fat side down this weekend. Didn't follow the class recipe to the letter, but cooked to 165, wrapped, back on till 188, rested 2 hours, sliced, and served. Never flipped it.

Still looking for the WOW factor, and will continue to play with some variables. The texture/tenderness was much better than what we have cooked in the past. Most likely will do the class recipe for comp - it has so many wins for "The Professor."

The Giggler
09-05-2007, 08:58 AM
BTW, I cook on the same pit as you. Fat side down is for sure the way to go.[/quote]

Jeff Hughes,

Cool. Dave Klose really puts out a great product. Gets a lot of attention where ever we go, especially when getting a yank from the 52 Ford. I really like the versatility of the slide out grill, and upright. For comps and catering, it really offers some nice space to cook.

Are you using a charcoal basket? Or straight logs? I have a charcoal basket, and haven't really spent any time using it. Lump or Briq?

jtfisher63
09-05-2007, 11:54 AM
I got a couple questions guys. When adding a flavorful liquid how much do you add and how much do you end up with at the end of the cook? Also do you wrap it in foil or put it in a covered foil pan? When I do mine, I put the brisket in a foil pan with about a half a beers worth of liquid and loosely cover with foil. It seems to end up swimming in juice by the time it hits 190*. I feel like maybe its screwing up the bark as it comes out soggy. They have been coming out dry after slicing it too. Any ideas?

Jason

Jeff Hughes
09-05-2007, 01:49 PM
Jeff Hughes,

Cool. Dave Klose really puts out a great product. Gets a lot of attention where ever we go, especially when getting a yank from the 52 Ford. I really like the versatility of the slide out grill, and upright. For comps and catering, it really offers some nice space to cook.

Are you using a charcoal basket? Or straight logs? I have a charcoal basket, and haven't really spent any time using it. Lump or Briq?

I use mostly logs(pecan is cheap around here) in the waking hours. I use my basket to get some sleep at comps. I can get a 5 hour burn at 250(using lump and small splits). I put my butts and brisket on about 1am, and let the basket do it's job while the pellet heads and I get some sleep. I start running logs when I get up.

The Giggler
09-05-2007, 03:16 PM
I got a couple questions guys. When adding a flavorful liquid how much do you add and how much do you end up with at the end of the cook? Also do you wrap it in foil or put it in a covered foil pan? When I do mine, I put the brisket in a foil pan with about a half a beers worth of liquid and loosely cover with foil. It seems to end up swimming in juice by the time it hits 190*. I feel like maybe its screwing up the bark as it comes out soggy. They have been coming out dry after slicing it too. Any ideas?

Jason

I added about 2 cups of liquid. In the case of the trial this weekend, it was Lipton's Onion Soup Mix. Added the water to the mix, and dumped it in. The bark was well formed, but not tough. I think the liquid softens things up a bit, but didn't kill the flavor. It did seem like it was swimming laps in the liquid, but it wasn't diluted at all. My guess is that more of the fat rendered, which made the amount seem larger than what I put in.

Bigmista
09-05-2007, 07:49 PM
Way more liquid than I add. I usually just add some of whatever I used to inject the brisket. Maybe half a cup. End up with more than that and i use that to brush my slices.