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Sawdustguy
08-21-2007, 07:38 PM
We did crappy this weekend at the Hudson Valley Ribfest and I have some suggestions for the KCBS. We were supposed to have comment cards filled out by the judges. We recieved not a single feedback card. On our ribs turn-in we got a 999 and a 343. I am not gonna bash the judges in this post, it's not my style. My gripe is, if I am going to recieve a 343 I would be very interested in finding out why.

After seeing one of the comment cards that another team showed me I can understand why some judges may have opted not to fill them out. The card had a number on it and a few lines on it to fill in a comment. If I was a judge I would have a hard time writing a few sentences about each entry.

I recommend the following system for comment cards. Firstly every judge would fill them out. They are absolutely useless unless someone takes the time to fill them out. Make the cards easier to fill out. Use a check box approach. For instance make check boxes for too salty, too spicey, too bland, overcooked, undercooked etc. so the judge could very quickly check the boxes. While these cards may not help some of the advanced teams it would help the beginners to understand why their entry was given that particular score. It may also help you to understand why you got a 999 and 343 on the same entry.

WannaBeBBQueen
08-21-2007, 07:44 PM
I agree :biggrin: it would be nice.

nthole
08-21-2007, 07:51 PM
This would help us decipher our first scores very much. I'm in complete agreement.

Tinybud
08-21-2007, 07:54 PM
I agree 100%, what's the use of comment cards if not every judge is going to use them. The checkbox idea is genius, would make quick work out of filling in a comment card.

YankeeBBQ
08-21-2007, 07:54 PM
We got 2 comment cards both complimenting our first place brisket. While it's nice to receive praise it's not very useful. I was hoping we got a couple comments on our 33rd ribs so we would know what they didn't like about them.

jminion
08-21-2007, 08:14 PM
My feelings are that the judges are instructed to fill out the card if they give you scores like that, if they can't finds something else to do at contest, judging is not for them.

Jim
PS as the score cards are collected and looked over at each table, don't give the judge a choice, make them fill out the card.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
08-21-2007, 08:15 PM
I think you are all on the right page! I would love to know what goes on in a judges head..999 vs.343 what the ......... lol

KC_Bobby
08-21-2007, 08:29 PM
Chalk up another agreement. I'd also like to know if the judge was certified or not.

Sawdustguy
08-21-2007, 08:35 PM
We got 2 comment cards both complimenting our first place brisket. While it's nice to receive praise it's not very useful. I was hoping we got a couple comments on our 33rd ribs so we would know what they didn't like about them.

Were you using the new recipe that you tried at Harpoon or was it the recipe you won a zillion times with?

G$
08-21-2007, 09:22 PM
I think you are all on the right page! I would love to know what goes on in a judges head..999 vs.343 what the ......... lol

That is strange. Were these ribs from the same rack? I could almost understand this on chicken pieces.

We got A comment card in March. Our brisket had "good flavor but tough". We new that, it was obvious. :icon_blush: Still appreciated the single comment we got.

nancee
08-21-2007, 09:36 PM
We also only got two and they were both complementary. We also got 9s and 3s. Love the checklist idea...
nancee

We did crappy this weekend at the Hudson Valley Ribfest and I have some suggestions for the KCBS. We were supposed to have comment cards filled out by the judges. We recieved not a single feedback card. On our ribs turn-in we got a 999 and a 343. I am not gonna bash the judges in this post, it's not my style. My gripe is, if I am going to recieve a 343 I would be very interested in finding out why.

After seeing one of the comment cards that another team showed me I can understand why some judges may have opted not to fill them out. The card had a number on it and a few lines on it to fill in a comment. If I was a judge I would have a hard time writing a few sentences about each entry.

I recommend the following system for comment cards. Firstly every judge would fill them out. They are absolutely useless unless someone takes the time to fill them out. Make the cards easier to fill out. Use a check box approach. For instance make check boxes for too salty, too spicey, too bland, overcooked, undercooked etc. so the judge could very quickly check the boxes. While these cards may not help some of the advanced teams it would help the beginners to understand why their entry was given that particular score. It may also help you to understand why you got a 999 and 343 on the same entry.

Q Haven
08-21-2007, 09:43 PM
We got all 7's, 8's and two 9's for our apples-chef choice turn in. Except one judge, who gave it a 3-5-3. That is the judge who should have filled out a comment card.

887 899 877 777 877 353

Was our first 3's ever. Just strange.

Our comment cards were one who praised our ribs. The other was somewhat constructive, saying our brisket wasn't cut exactly perpindicular to the grain. It said besides that, it said the brisket had great taste and moisture.

nancee
08-21-2007, 09:59 PM
we got 3s saturday also...same scenario...makes you wonder
I was truly disgusted
kept hearing about a bad table...

Happened to look at the Michigan scores...top 50 ALL above 600...no wonder Mike Davis told us he was glad he didn't cook in the NE!!!
nancee

We got all 7's, 8's and two 9's for our apples-chef choice turn in. Except one judge, who gave it a 3-5-3. That is the judge who should have filled out a comment card.

887 899 877 777 877 353

Was our first 3's ever. Just strange.

VGuilford
08-21-2007, 10:12 PM
Sounds to like you had someone there that didn't know their arse from a hole in the ground to me.

Sledneck
08-21-2007, 10:18 PM
I judged this weekend and did not fill out any cards. As for praise that would be a waste of time. The checklist would be great. If we did 1 hour turn in maybe there would be enought time to fill out cards. I really did not understand the spectators watching us judge. It was really annoying. Judging as a spectator sport?

Puppyboy
08-21-2007, 10:18 PM
...On our ribs turn-in we got a 999 and a 343. I am not gonna bash the judges in this post, it's not my style. My gripe is, if I am going to recieve a 343 I would be very interested in finding out why...
You should be able to contact a rep at the contest and ask to speak to the judge.

Sledneck
08-21-2007, 10:20 PM
You should be able to contact a rep at the contest and ask to speak to the judge.
Thats what i need as a judge , a phone call from an angry competitor on a monday:eek:

Muzzlebrake
08-21-2007, 10:46 PM
our scores were consistantly chitty across the board so we didnt have the same problem as you guys.
The 2 cards we got back were OK.
The one for our brisket we all agreed with (and the saucy fingerprints were cool).
The one about our ribs we kind of knew but we found some other things we may have overlooked.
They also used these in Lake Placid and the card we got there was useful, but also not very eye opening.
If I had a gotten a 3 I would still be too mad to talk.
If I had a history if winning as much as Nancee or Ted, I would be demanding an explanation.
I think the cards are going to work out but they have some bugs. I would like to see a 4 or lower be justified by a comment. A 3 or lower deserves an explanation. And although I have not received any I would think that the positive cards will work out too.

Westexbbq
08-21-2007, 11:01 PM
I judged the Ribfest sitting right next to Sled. Personally did not give a score below a 5. (not counting apples).
On the few select 9's I did give, I filled out a comment card.
Kinda redundant cause a 9 pretty much is a comment unto itself but I figured it would be helpful to elaborate a bit on why.
Woulda done the same on a lower score but fortunately nothing hit my table that warrented such a number, in my opinion.
It was interesting having a bleecher(sp) set up with peeps and others behind a yellow tape viewing all of us as we performed our duties.
First time with the comment cards for me but I tried to be selective with comments: only the highs and lows, if applicable.

LostNation
08-22-2007, 06:34 AM
I also only got 2 comment cards, really wish we got more. One said our brisket had good flavor but was overcooked, I agree. The other had 9-9-9, love the maple flavor, for one of the few cook offs I've done I didn't use any maple in anything.

I like the cards and wish more judges would use them.

drbbq
08-22-2007, 07:55 AM
None of us want to accept it but KCBS has a great solution for the 3's already in place. The lowest judge is thrown out.
Nowadays we all want to use that for 6's annd 7's but the reality is it's designed to throw out that wild card guy and it works well. None of your 3's counted.
Now if two judges give you 3's it's time to look in the mirror.

rbsnwngs
08-22-2007, 08:05 AM
None of us want to accept it but KCBS has a great solution for the 3's already in place. The lowest judge is thrown out.
Nowadays we all want to use that for 6's annd 7's but the reality is it's designed to throw out that wild card guy and it works well. None of your 3's counted.
Now if two judges give you 3's it's time to look in the mirror.

weather or not the score was thrown out i would like to know why i got 3's thats what Guy is asking

Q Haven
08-22-2007, 08:25 AM
I tend to overanalyze all my scores but Dr BBQ is right. I need to just cook my best food possible and not really worry about what I can't control (the judges).

CharlieBeasley
08-22-2007, 08:35 AM
I work with one of the judges for this event and if I am not mistaken it was the high and low score that were asked to fill out the comment cards. I think it is a good idea and should be enforced as a judge I do not have a problem justifying when I am out of the normal (highest or lowest) it would be a useless pain to verbalize average or close. I also hear that the KCBS selections across the board were not much above average on his table. He may have gotten a bad luck table where no one stood out I don,t know just passing on what I heard.

ihbobry
08-22-2007, 08:46 AM
I believe during the cooks meeting I heard Linda say any judge scoring 4 or below would be asked to fill out a card. Maybe I misheard that with all the noise but I don't think I did.

Sawdustguy
08-22-2007, 09:50 AM
None of us want to accept it but KCBS has a great solution for the 3's already in place. The lowest judge is thrown out.
Nowadays we all want to use that for 6's annd 7's but the reality is it's designed to throw out that wild card guy and it works well. None of your 3's counted.
Now if two judges give you 3's it's time to look in the mirror.


Ray,

We understand that the lowest mark gets dropped. Beside that, the lowest mark we got was a six but we got alot of sixes. We are only interested in why we were scored the way we were. We are still fairly new at this and feedback is important to us. Again, we are not bitching about the judges. We realize that there is a reason teams like Ique and I Smell Smoke do well week after week. As a newer team feedback from the judges is helpful for us to improve. If they are going to have feedback cards, I only propose a way to help them fill them out quickly. I hope you understand our position.

butts a fire
08-22-2007, 10:40 AM
I agree on the cards I have never received a single comment from the judges so any feed back would be helpful to me, If I were judging I think that the check the box idea would make it much easier to give feed back and we all know the easier the better. And as a competitor I think the check the box idea would be very clear and concise and allow me to change things that needed to be changed.

Muzzlebrake
08-22-2007, 10:41 AM
The other had 9-9-9, love the maple flavor, for one of the few cook offs I've done I didn't use any maple in anything.


Are Vermonters allowed to publicly admit to foreigners they didnt use maple in everything?

:biggrin:

None of us want to accept it but KCBS has a great solution for the 3's already in place. The lowest judge is thrown out.
Nowadays we all want to use that for 6's annd 7's but the reality is it's designed to throw out that wild card guy and it works well. None of your 3's counted.
Now if two judges give you 3's it's time to look in the mirror.

I agree, good rule and it does work well but it still stings like hell when you read it.

ModelMaker
08-22-2007, 01:48 PM
Personally I think you got two bad judges. The low scorer was pry not very experienced, or just had a "tude". The high scorer was pry just as inexperiened. I've judged enough to realize perfect ribs are damn few and far between. Oddly enough I don't see you "complaining" about that score when alot of 6's were the norm from the other judges. (as concerned)
One thing that has always bugged me was the inability to explain to a cook who has put forth alot of time, energy, and money why I scored his product out of the norm.
Perhaps discussions like this will allow for future change and better understanding between cooks and judges...
ModelMaker

Sawdustguy
08-22-2007, 02:28 PM
I will never complain about the Judges. It is simply not my style and I have absolutely no control over them. I am simply asking for feedback. If comment cards are to be used, it would be nice to get a few. I am just suggesting a way to give the judges an easier way to fill the cards out quicker and easier.

ModelMaker
08-22-2007, 02:46 PM
I didn't even cosider your post complaining, let alone complaning about judges. I just thought you were speaking amoungst freinds.
Poor choice of wording on my behalf.
scuse me.
ModelMaker

Loosenut
08-22-2007, 04:02 PM
The more feedback in my opinion the better. And if adding boxes to check makes the cards easier to use then I'm all for that too. When you get straight 9's and then a 565 in ribs its nice to have an idea why. As someone else said the judge giving out the 999 is probably just not an experienced judge but I sure hope they judge my ribs again.:mrgreen:

drbbq
08-22-2007, 05:47 PM
weather or not the score was thrown out i would like to know why i got 3's thats what Guy is asking

Hi Willie,
You think there is ANY POSSIBLE explanation for a 3 that you'll be good with? It's just gonna piss you off.

drbbq
08-22-2007, 05:53 PM
Ray,

We understand that the lowest mark gets dropped. Beside that, the lowest mark we got was a six but we got alot of sixes. We are only interested in why we were scored the way we were. We are still fairly new at this and feedback is important to us. Again, we are not bitching about the judges. We realize that there is a reason teams like Ique and I Smell Smoke do well week after week. As a newer team feedback from the judges is helpful for us to improve. If they are going to have feedback cards, I only propose a way to help them fill them out quickly. I hope you understand our position.

I do understand but I don't think the comment cards will ever work. It could just intimidate the judges into scoring 6-8 so they stay under the radar.

Besides like I said to Willie, there's no explanation for a 3 that you or I are ever gonna accept as constructive. It's just gonna piss us off. Long elaborate explanations from judges who actually know WTF they are talking about would be nice but it's a long way off.

Sledneck
08-22-2007, 05:54 PM
I was to busy entertaining the spectators so i could not write any comments

HoDeDo
08-22-2007, 06:39 PM
We got comment cards at a couple of events this year. The judges were instructed to fill out comments for 9's or for 5 or lower. ( both contests in Iowa)

The 9's offer no real insight into what they liked best... just that it was great.

The judge that gave me a 5 stated that they "thought my brisket looked too dry" I got my 5 in taste, so not sure how that comment maps to a 5 in taste. I still got 9th, so I just accepted it as a errant judge.

I dont think you should make the assumption that the feedback the judge might give you is going to be relevant. I got feedback, but didnt find it very helpful. so, My jury is still out on the feedback forms. Like everything else, if it was formalized, and had a syntax associated with it so that us cooks could get valuable feedback it would be great. As it is, they do not allow additional time for that effort, and since there is not alot of definition around feedback.... comments can be cryptic or detailed or non-existant.

I'm glad the board is trying new things... I think hitting on the right mix will just take time.

swamprb
08-22-2007, 09:15 PM
I do understand but I don't think the comment cards will ever work. It could just intimidate the judges into scoring 6-8 so they stay under the radar.

Besides like I said to Willie, there's no explanation for a 3 that you or I are ever gonna accept as constructive. It's just gonna piss us off. Long elaborate explanations from judges who actually know WTF they are talking about would be nice but it's a long way off.


I've only judged at 2 comps so far and admit I don't know WTF I'm doing, but trying the best I can to learn, and there just wasn't enough time to do more than 3 or 4 comment cards between turn ins. I tried to distinguish the outstanding and give praise and honestly explain what my reason for any low score was, but it's not easy! I'm there to learn to be a better competitor/cook so I feel for you. I read some comments one cook got and was relieved none of mine were in his hand because they were all over the place and he's just shaking his head. I honestly don't know if judging is for me, and I'm still kind of shocked at the number of folks I've talked to judging that don't even cook Q, and are there with the ziplocks and coolers.

Brian

nancee
08-22-2007, 10:20 PM
OK, I finally got over it and looked to see what we got for comment cards

We got two:
one in ribs no scores other than between 5 and 9 so presumably the comment card was from the 9
tenderness was just righ; pulled clean from the bone and good texture
Now, that was helpful; too bad the other judges didn't agree

the other was in pork
must have been from one of the 9s
taste was excellent
we had no 9s in taste in pork...

it would have been REALLY nice to hear from some of the 5s and 6s that could help us improve...like Guy says even a checklist would be fantastic so we just aren't twisting in the wind...

Saturday's scores, the truly bewildering, there were no comment cards...
to answer Ray, etc I got a 3 in taste in lamb
all the rest were 7s and 8s and yes I would have liked to throw out a 7 and win (or not feel that I had just been screwed by someone cluesless)

With the 3 btw, we took 5th in lamb
I did not continue the math exercise...

just thought it was interesting...
nancee

SmokeInDaEye
08-22-2007, 10:47 PM
I was to busy entertaining the spectators so i could not write any comments

People just like to watch you eat. Did you use the tongs?:biggrin:

SmokeInDaEye
08-22-2007, 11:01 PM
OK, I finally got over it and looked to see what we got for comment cards

We got two:
one in ribs no scores other than between 5 and 9 so presumably the comment card was from the 9
tenderness was just righ; pulled clean from the bone and good texture
Now, that was helpful; too bad the other judges didn't agree

the other was in pork
must have been from one of the 9s
taste was excellent
we had no 9s in taste in pork...

it would have been REALLY nice to hear from some of the 5s and 6s that could help us improve...like Guy says even a checklist would be fantastic so we just aren't twisting in the wind...

Saturday's scores, the truly bewildering, there were no comment cards...
to answer Ray, etc I got a 3 in taste in lamb
all the rest were 7s and 8s and yes I would have liked to throw out a 7 and win (or not feel that I had just been screwed by someone cluesless)

With the 3 btw, we took 5th in lamb
I did not continue the math exercise...

just thought it was interesting...
nancee

No offense to anyone, but a 3 is disrespectful of the time, effort, and knowledge put in by the individuals I see basically saying the same thing.

Call me out because I have not done many contests, but the amount of people here within our group who saw 3s is a little disturbing to me. I haven't judged either, but it would seem that 5 is a basic starting point, and below that is nasty, inedible or worse. 5s and 6s aren't going to put anyone in the top ten, so what exactly is the point of a 3 unless absolutely, positively, necessary?

Seems like there were some very opinionated judges this past weekend who had expectations that will never be achieved. I wish I had a solution but I don't. But can we at least scratch our heads when something seems so out of wack and try to find ways to make things better?

Q Haven
08-22-2007, 11:33 PM
I wonder if there is any way to look at the records and see if it was the same individual judge giving out all the 3's....maybe someone who woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

Sledneck
08-22-2007, 11:36 PM
I noticed that one of the judges was pulled aside and questioned by a rep as to why he gave a 3.

nancee
08-23-2007, 12:16 AM
I have been wondering the same thing since the 3s started showing up; I think it was last year. Never saw one before that ever.

I wonder if there is any way to look at the records and see if it was the same individual judge giving out all the 3's....maybe someone who woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

nancee
08-23-2007, 12:29 AM
I am not sure that last post was exactly accurate and Greg put away the score sheets again so I wouldn't trash them<G>
We had 8s and 9s; also 7s, 6s and 5s but only the two commnet cards and that part was correct

I know I should not but I get very insulted when I get this unexplained scoring; particurally now that they are supposed to be doing the comment cards on bbq. Like most competitors, I do (pretty much) the same thing week in and week out...it just boggles my mind that the scores can vary that much week to week. It almost seems like certain judges have picked out their favorite (tastes/items) long ago and nothing else anyone does will ever satisfy them... I also think we are seeing a lot more comparison judging than we used to. Again, this is partially based on a whole lot of comments from everyone (including judges) last weekend...

Lastly, for me and everyone, isn't 6 supposed to be the mediocre starting point, NOT 5??? Maybe this is dragging the overalls down also...

Sorry for another long vent but everytime I look at everyone's overalls from last weekend it just pisses me off...

No offense to anyone, but a 3 is disrespectful of the time, effort, and knowledge put in by the individuals I see basically saying the same thing.

Call me out because I have not done many contests, but the amount of people here within our group who saw 3s is a little disturbing to me. I haven't judged either, but it would seem that 5 is a basic starting point, and below that is nasty, inedible or worse. 5s and 6s aren't going to put anyone in the top ten, so what exactly is the point of a 3 unless absolutely, positively, necessary?

Seems like there were some very opinionated judges this past weekend who had expectations that will never be achieved. I wish I had a solution but I don't. But can we at least scratch our heads when something seems so out of wack and try to find ways to make things better?

Plowboy
08-23-2007, 01:32 AM
I wonder if there is any way to look at the records and see if it was the same individual judge giving out all the 3's....maybe someone who woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

Its been a couple of years since I've judged, but doesn't the score card have the judges position at the table and the table number or am I just dreaming?

SmokeInDaEye
08-23-2007, 10:20 AM
Lastly, for me and everyone, isn't 6 supposed to be the mediocre starting point, NOT 5??? Maybe this is dragging the overalls down also...

That's what I was wondering. When I did a Memphis In May sanctioned contest last month, they told us in the cooks meeting that they instruct judges that a five needs to be nearly inedible, a six is unpleasant, a seven is OK, an 8 good, 9 among the best you've ever had, and a 10 shoots bottle rockets out of your butt (yes, KCBS only scores to nine but this is an EXAMPLE:biggrin: ).

Now those weren't the exact words, but the sentiment and the instruction to competitors and judges seemed to make the playing field a little more balanced. I'd love to hear the same thing at a KCBS event.

Muzzlebrake
08-23-2007, 12:32 PM
Did you use the tongs?:biggrin:

think it was the thong that drew all the attention

SmokeInDaEye
08-23-2007, 01:37 PM
think it was the thong that drew all the attention


http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4606&stc=1&d=1166075606

MAsQue
08-23-2007, 03:36 PM
I only started cooking in competition a couple of years ago, but even in that short time, I've seen a big expansion of BBQ in the Northeast. I would assume that the Food Channel and similar media have caused growth in competitive BBQ elsewhere, too; even in those areas where BBQ has been popular in the past.

If there are a larger number of people involved in judging and cooking, it is to be expected that there would be a larger number of people whose tastes and opinions fall outside what has been the normal range in the past. Especially if the newcomers are not being exposed to the tastes and methods of the "old timers" as newcomers would have been during the time that the BBQ community was smaller and more tight-knit. (I would also expect that the chances of attracting to judging someone who is just nuckin' futz is likely to go up.) In short, I would expect that, until more people get more experience, the growth of BBQ is going to guarantee a wider range of strange scoring.

I would agree with Ray's statement above that, in the normal course of affairs, the elimination of the lowest score would take care of the problem of the "off-the-wall" judge. If a large percentage of judges are inexperienced, chances are that you might get two or more such judges at one table, however, and the elimination of the lowest score fails as a solution to the problem. Time and judges gaining experience should eliminate that situation.

One situation that I feel exists that might be addressed by the KCBS is that the judges are given too many choices in scoring, resulting in criteria that are not clear, even in a general way. I took the judging class with Linda and Jerry Mullane, who I thought did an admirable job, but the difference between (for example) "excellent" and "shoots bottle rockets out of your butt" is not clear to me. The lower end of the scale is worse: if '2' is inedible, '3' is bad, '4' is below average, and '6' is average, what does that leave for '5'? (Arrange these numbers to suit yourself, it seems to me that there is one too many.) Perhaps a scoring system like school grades {'F','D','C','B','A'} would be more easily understood by more people (since almost everyone in the U.S. has experience of something like it) and flexibility could be introduced by allowing "pluses". It also converts easily to numerics for calculating overall scores. Of course, there would be some objection of the "we've always done it this way...let those new people figure it out" sort, but if we take that attitude, then we should expect a period of dealing with odd scores while "those new people figure it out".

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Yakfishingfool
08-23-2007, 08:56 PM
I like the letter grading, but would go A+ A A-, B+ B B-, C+ C C-. That's 9 to 1, but on a scale more people are used to using for grading. Not sure it uncomplicates things but....the other option is to go with 4 numbers only, and allow the weight of scoring pull out the winners. 4321 Excellent, good, fair, lousy, and let the weight of the catgory get the differences weeded out. Scott

Sawdustguy
08-23-2007, 09:39 PM
I like the letter grading, but would go A+ A A-, B+ B B-, C+ C C-. That's 9 to 1, but on a scale more people are used to using for grading. Not sure it uncomplicates things but....the other option is to go with 4 numbers only, and allow the weight of scoring pull out the winners. 4321 Excellent, good, fair, lousy, and let the weight of the catgory get the differences weeded out. Scott

Not a bad idea Scott.

MAsQue
08-23-2007, 10:23 PM
I like the letter grading, but would go A+ A A-, B+ B B-, C+ C C-. That's 9 to 1, but on a scale more people are used to using for grading. Not sure it uncomplicates things but....the other option is to go with 4 numbers only, and allow the weight of scoring pull out the winners. 4321 Excellent, good, fair, lousy, and let the weight of the catgory get the differences weeded out. Scott

I've been thinking about this a little more in light of Scott's suggestion. The problem I see here is that 'C' says average to most people. If you said 'F' = 1 = DQ, then 'D' = 2, 'D+' = 3, 'C' = 4, 'C+' = 5, 'B' = 6, 'B+' = 7, 'A' = 8 and 'A+' = 9. This would "reverse" the current scoring, which has 5 grades below average (5,4,3,2 and 1) and 3 grades above average (7,8 and 9) with a system that has 5 grades above average (5,6,7,8 and 9) and 3 grades below average (3,2 and 1). As I believe Nancee pointed out above, most competitors put out a fairly high standard of product; does it really make sense to have 5 grades to describe the infrequent unacceptable entry and only 3 grades to diffentiate between all the generally good entries? Or does the reverse make more sense?

Also, this distibution keeps the grading in line with the school grades with which most of us are familiar.

Sledneck
08-23-2007, 10:26 PM
make it simple Good, OK, and Bad

MAsQue
08-23-2007, 10:31 PM
make it simple Good, OK, and Bad

I see a lot of tied competitions in your future! :lol:

Sledneck
08-23-2007, 10:33 PM
I see a lot of tied competitions in your future! :lol:
Let me update this one, Good, OK, Bad, and 13th