It's on! My first all night butt,

[itschris]

I got two nice sized butts on now for about 40 minutes. We're running a bit hot about 240 and have a bit more smoke than I'd like, but I don't want to choke it down too much. I think it'll settle down in the next 30 minutes like it usually does.

I went the Mr. Brown route and have some the famous Vaunted Vinegar to go with it so we'll see how they turn out. I'm gonna pull them at 205 assuming the bone is nice and loose and cooler them. I'm then gonna through on some baby backs and a big fatty I re-rolled with gruyere cheese. I think I can keep the butt foiled in the cooler for the 4 hours the ribs are going (that is correct right?)

Anyway... I'm gonna babysit for another hour than get some shut-eye.

[itschris]

Hey my title changed... again... already... I think I talk too damn much!

[keale]

Yup! It will hold for that 4 hours, are the ribs going to be done that quick?
what is that "Mr. Brown" and Vaunted Vinegar? Can you share?

[HeSmellsLikeSmoke]

Yup! It will hold for that 4 hours, are the ribs going to be done that quick?
what is that "Mr. Brown" and Vaunted Vinegar? Can you share?

Vaunted Vinegar sauce and Mr. Brown (The Renown Mr. Brown) are both from Smoke and Spice -- a very good cookbook worth buying if you don't already have it.

[The Pigman]

Seems to me thats fast for the ribs more like 6.....just my opionon

[Rusty_Barton]

Yup! It will hold for that 4 hours, are the ribs going to be done that quick?
what is that "Mr. Brown" and Vaunted Vinegar? Can you share?

==================================================

FROM THE RECIPE SOURCE RECIPE WEBSITE:


Title: VAUNTED VINEGAR SAUCE

http://www.recipesource.com/side-dishes/sauces/07/rec0750.html

[/URL]Categories: Bbq sauces, Bar-b-q, Mine
Yield: 2 Cups

2 c Cider vinegar
2 T Sugar or brown sugar
2 t Salt
1 t Fresh ground black pepper
1 t Cayenne or hot red pepper

Combine all the ingredients in a bowl and stir to dissolve the sugar.
Serve at room temperature or chilled. The sauce keeps indefinitely.

~ SOURCE: SMOKE AND SPICE

==================================================

FROM THE RECIPEZAAR RECIPE WEBSITE:

Some people who don't like real spicy cut back black & cayenne pepper by 1/2 on this recipe.
Some also say they can't tell the difference with or without the sop.


The Renowned Mr. Brown recipe for Pork Butt

http://www.recipezaar.com/68813 (http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/pork2.html)

ALSO SEE:

[URL]http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/pork2.html

In old Southern slang, "Mr. Brown" is the dark, smoky outside part of
barbecued pork, usually the shoulder. This is the traditional cooking
style, perfected by generations of pitmasters to give Mr. Brown his
deserved renown. Adapted from 'Smoke & Spice'. Please note that every
smoker is unique, so the cooking times are merely a guideline.

6-8 lbs boston butt, trimmed of excess fat to 1/4 inch

Southern Succor Rub
1/4 cup fresh ground black pepper
1/4 cup paprika
1/4 cup turbinado sugar
2 tablespoons salt
2 teaspoons dry mustard
1 teaspoon cayenne


Southern Sop
2 cups apple cider vinegar
3 tablespoons fresh ground black pepper
2 tablespoons salt
1 tablespoon Worcestershire sauce
1 tablespoon paprika
1 tablespoon cayenne
remaining rub (about 3 T)
1 cup water

your favorite southern barbecue sauce (I use Pigman's)


1. The night before you plan to barbecue, combine the rub ingredients
in a small bowl.

2. Massage the pork well with about half of the rub.

3. Transfer to plastic bag and refrigerate over night.

4. Before you begin to barbecue, remove pork from refrigerator, and
let sit at room temp for 30-45 minutes.

5. Prepare the smoker for barbecuing, bringing the temp to 200-225 degrees.

6. Stir remaining rub together with the sop ingredients, and 1 cup
of water in a saucepan, and warm the mixture over low heat (you are keeping
the liquid warm during the cooking process to kill any bacteria the tool
might pick up from the surface of the food, and to avoid lowering the
temperature of the food).

7. Transfer the pork to the smoker and cook it for about 1 and 1/2 hours
per pound, or until it's falling-apart tender.

8. Mop the pork every 1 and 1/2- two hours, or as appropriate for your
smoking method.

9. [Ihad a six pound butt which took about 12 hours to cook- when ready,
it was black and burnt looking on the outside, and the internal temp was
almost 180-degrees.

10. ]Remove the pork from the smoker, wrap tightly in tinfoil, and let
sit for at least 30 minutes.

11. Remove from foil, and roughly chop or'pull' the pork, mixing well
the black, crispy exterior, with the butter-soft interior meat.

12. Add a small portion of your favorite BBQ sauce and mix well- you
generally will need much less than you would think.

13. Place into holding container, cover with foil, and place back into
smoker for 20 or so minutes (this is optional- you can eat right away,
if you like).

14. This is so good, a CWB (cheap white bun) would take away from the
pure pork pleasure.

15. Serve with your favorite cole slaw and icy cold beer.




==================================================

Here's a link to the book SMOKE & SPICE at Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Smoke-Spice-Cooking-Real-Barbecue/dp/1558322620


==================================================

[itschris]

Okay... I just woke up... that's affirmative on the Mr. Brown recipes... thanks for putting those up for me. I would definately cut back on the black pepper though. I can tell you just from licking my fingers moving the butts around just now that it's very pepper tasting... I dunno... maybe it's supposed to be that way with the Vaunted Sauce... but I definately like my stuff sweeter... I'm bit concerned at this point because it's actually kinda overpowering it seems.... we'll see.

For the ribs... last time I did 6 hours... my ribs came out like show leather. Because I don't think I'll have the room for 3 slabs I was thinking I'd put them on after, but perhaps I should put them in there somehow even if not ideally situated to get more time. We'll see.

Anyway... I gotta go check on things... I'm still not awake yet.

[Smokin Gator]

Chris,

If you are going to cooler for that long it will be fine. However, I would pull the butts at a lower temperature... something like 195-198. They will continue to "cook" in the cooler. From my experience if I take them to 200 and over then cooler for an extended period the meat is a little too mushy for my tastes. JMO...

[itschris]

Excellent advice... thank you. Do you have any ideas about the overwhelming pepper situation. I know I measure correctly, because I've very anal about it. I spayed some apple juice just now on both sides while I was waiting for some smoke to disipate - (another error I won't make again... adding unlit lump to already hot lump. I just got billowing white clouds of smoke so I had to open all the doors for about 10 minutes)

Anyway... I'm hoping the apple juice spraying will cut down the pepper a bit.

Thanks again for the temprature tip though... that just saved me another forehead slapping DOH! moment!

[Smokin Gator]

Excellent advice... thank you. Do you have any ideas about the overwhelming pepper situation. I know I measure correctly, because I've very anal about it. I spayed some apple juice just now on both sides while I was waiting for some smoke to disipate - (another error I won't make again... adding unlit lump to already hot lump. I just got billowing white clouds of smoke so I had to open all the doors for about 10 minutes)

Anyway... I'm hoping the apple juice spraying will cut down the pepper a bit.

Thanks again for the temprature tip though... that just saved me another forehead slapping DOH! moment!


LOL on the head slapping moment... I have had and continue to have lots of those...

Earlier when I was writing I stopped and went out to get the paper... when I came back and finished you had posted about the extreme pepper taste. I was going to suggest that you spray with apple juice!!! That will temper it some as some of the pepper will run off with the juice.

Other than that I wouldn't worry about it too much. With a butt there is so much meat inside with relatively little surface area. When you pull the meat the bark is going to have to season the rest of the meat. When it is ready I would just pull the meat, add a little apple juice, and taste it and see. I really think it will be fine.

Also... as I have posted before... I like to do 3-2-1 on fatties. If you have room on the smoker I would get the fatty on to allow for that. Lots of others cook them to 165 internal and they are very good. I just prefer the 3-2-1 with lots of apple juice sprayed on during the cook and especially when I foil.

For your ribs... 4 hours is pushing it... but I think it is doable. After the fatty comes off just let your temps go up. If you can get about 45 minutes to an hour at 300 those BBs will be done. Just remember your last time and get the bark the color you want then foil. They will be fine!!!

[itschris]

Thanks for the encouragement... you know you just want to do well and it's hard when you spend all this time... and lose all the sleep... you just want things to be perfect. Plus.. ego-wise it's hard being a newbie. I've been king of the grill for so long it's hard starting over.

I think I can get the ribs and the fatty in there.. maybe not ideally laid out.. but good enough to get the first part of the smoking in. Once I'm ready I pull the butts off I can better arrange things.

On the 3-2-1... if the bark looks good after 2 for instance... and I foil... do I still foil for just the 2 hours or do I have to go longer to make up the time? I'm thinking the first 3 hours is variable while the 2 and 1 are pretty much fixed. I think when I do foil.. I'm just gonna put them in a foil pan and cover.

[Smokin Gator]

Chris,

The 3-2-1 is for the fatty... I don't worry about what the bark looks like. I just follow it to a T. It works for me!!!

On the BBs I would wait until I pull the butts assuming that will give you 4 hours to work with. Then you will have plenty of space and air flow in the smoker. Put the ribs on for 2 hours and then check to see if they are dark enough. If so foil. If not check them every 15 minutes or so until they are like you want then foil. Make sure to spray with some AJ when you foil. Then put them back on for 1.5 hours. The last half hour open the foil to reset the bark. They should be fine!!!

[Rusty_Barton]

I made a 4-lb pork butt yesterday in the WSM for just the wife and me. I used the Mr. Brown recipe. Since it was so small I cut all of the recipe ingredients in half. That left the pepper at full strength. After chopping up the butt, it seemed just right to me and my wife. I had put the 4-pound butt on at 10am yesterday and expected it to be done by dinner. It wasn't. It took until 7pm to finish (10 hours at 250F). I also made a 1/2 sop recipe and used that about every 2 hours. The butt was darrrrnnnn gooooood!

[itschris]

Got it.. I'll do exactly that. I think I'll put the fatty on at 9am, I have room for that and play the ribs by ear... it's looking like I may have okay room now that the butts have shrunk up considerably, but I think your way is best.

I attached a couple of pics. I decided to take up welding as the latest anti-career hobby and put together this new front shelf from angle iron and expanded metal. I'm gonna make another to take the place of the fryer attachment when not in use and I'm going to make some stainless steel expanded metal cook grates.

I can't thank you enough for the help... it's like having a teacher looking over your shoulder. I really appreciate it.

[Smokin Gator]

WOW... That shelf looks awesome. What a nice addition to the smoker. Those butts are looking really nice as well.

You are welcome on the advice... but the thanks is not needed. The way I see it, that is just what we do here. So many others here have helped me and the love of Q mandates the passing it on!!!! And that is not to say I am some expert... I still have lots to learn as well.

[itschris]

I'm look forward to the day, when a new "lookin for wood" member asks a question that I can answer. I'm looking foward to giving back a little.

The shelf was a lot of fun to build. I never welded before, but just screwed around until I figured it out. I sit at a desk all day doing financial analysis so playing with fire and sparks is fun. It sounds stupid, but it felt very gratifying to build that shelf... to actually make something from just a pile of metal. At my job... I work all day long, but I don't actually create anything so it was kinda cool to do that. I have all these new ideas for smoker projects now.

The side shelf is next and I may try to fab a warming plate off the firebox for my wood chunks. I just ordered a sheet of stainless expanded metal and stainless angle iron for the new grates. A firebox charcoal basket and smoke chamber charcoal basket for (real grilling) are also on the list. I haven't turned on my gasser since I got this thing!

[Rick's Tropical Delight]

i still want to move into your hotub! :biggrin:

i'm doing my first overnight butts as well... they are getting done faster than i expected............

[tkuehn5410]

I'm about to start on my first butts as well, my only thought is that the vinegar will overpower the good. I have never understood vinegar as a base in bbq sauce. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[HeSmellsLikeSmoke]

I'm about to start on my first butts as well, my only thought is that the vinegar will overpower the good. I have never understood vinegar as a base in bbq sauce. Anyone care to enlighten me?

I usually make two or three sauces from different regions of the country for pulled pork and let people sample them. I never serve my pulled pork with any sauce mixed in.

The vinegar based ones seem to be the least popular, but they are easy to make and give variety.

[Ron_L]

Looking good, Chris! When you cooler the butts, pre-heat the cooler with hot water and then dry it thoroughly, and then line the bottom with either newspaper of old towels, then put the foiled butts in, and then cover them with more newspaper towels. They will hold for a long time. I normally plan about four hours of cooler time for butts when I cook. The long rest seems to help with the flavor.

For the ribs, my normal time for baby backs is 4 1/2 hours at 225. You can get them done in four hours but you may have to run the cooker at 250. If you want to foil the ribs the rule of thumb that guts here use is 2-1-1 or 2-2-1 depending on the size of the ribs and the temp.

Good luck and good eats! Don't forget the pictures of the rest of the food!

[fivelombardis]

oh, and since no one's mentioned it...if you place some of that lump on top of the firebox, it'll get up to temp and when you throw it onto the fire, it'll ignite almost immediately (no billowing white smoke). careful not to throw them on there too early, or they'll ignite on top of the firebox!

[itschris]

Well I got smart and used the Weber chimney started I bought. I'm warming some coals right now...

Note to self...don't light the chimney in the birdcage... I still can't see out there from all the smoke!

[Keri C]

The meats are looking great! That's a wonderful smell right about dawn, isn't it? Listen to the meat, and not exclusively the clock or the thermo when you're checking to see if your butts are done. The meat will appear to have collapsed in on itself, but even more telling will be when you wiggle the bone and it releases from the meat with no resistance and the butt tries to fall apart. The more you cook, the more you will use the thermometer not only to get a guide on meat temps, but more importantly to see how the meat feels. If it feels like the probe is going into warm butter in most places on the butt, then it's definitely done, no matter what the temp says. A few weeks ago I did 10 butts on the Fat 50 (no foil). One 8.5 pounder decided that it was done at about 180, and one smaller one was particularly stubborn and had to go to more like 203 before it loosened up and released the bone. Check with the thermo, but poke at the meat with your finger as well. That way you'll come to identify how "done" feels to the touch as well as by temp. Just in case the thermo battery dies... :biggrin:

If you'd like to try a sauce that's kind of a cross between an eastern vinegar and a sweeter tomato-based sauce, try making up a batch of Fat Johnny's Bastardized Piedmont Sauce (http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1980069052/m/8790077663/r/8790077663#8790077663), a concoction invented by "Chez" John Eddy of Topeka, KS. Good stuff!

I'm curious about the cooking time on your fatty, Gator. You said that you use a 3-2-1 - I presume that's three hours in smoke, 2 hours in foil, one hour out? Is this for a large roll of sausage such as Blue and Gold, perhaps? We may be cooking at higher temps also, though - we usually run around 250-260. The one-pounders that we throw on in spare space around the cooker usually take about two hours at most to get to 165-ish for us, and the 3-pounders take usually right at three. What does the foiling time do for the texture? Few things are tastier at 5 am than a fresh hot maple fatty glazed with a bit of Blues Hog!

Chris, my DH Robert and I both understand your feelings about the shelf, and about learning to weld. Robert recently bought a small welder and taught himself how to weld, and is just having a great time with it. Enjoy!

Regards - Keri C

[backyardchef]

I'm about to start on my first butts as well, my only thought is that the vinegar will overpower the good. I have never understood vinegar as a base in bbq sauce. Anyone care to enlighten me?

With just a light sprinkle of the sauce, it brings some pork to life and cuts the richness a little while the red pepper flakes add a subtle heat and it all just generally perks up the taste buds. It's definitely not a flavor for everyone, but I like a little bit of it now and then.

[Rick's Tropical Delight]

Listen to the meat, and not exclusively the clock or the thermo when you're checking to see if your butts are done. The meat will appear to have collapsed in on itself, but even more telling will be when you wiggle the bone and it releases from the meat with no resistance and the butt tries to fall apart. The more you cook, the more you will use the thermometer not only to get a guide on meat temps, but more importantly to see how the meat feels. If it feels like the probe is going into warm butter in most places on the butt, then it's definitely done, no matter what the temp says. A few weeks ago I did 10 butts on the Fat 50 (no foil). One 8.5 pounder decided that it was done at about 180, and one smaller one was particularly stubborn and had to go to more like 203 before it loosened up and released the bone. Check with the thermo, but poke at the meat with your finger as well. That way you'll come to identify how "done" feels to the touch as well as by temp. Just in case the thermo battery dies... :biggrin:

I'm curious about the cooking time on your fatty, Gator. You said that you use a 3-2-1 - I presume that's three hours in smoke, 2 hours in foil, one hour out? Is this for a large roll of sausage such as Blue and Gold, perhaps? We may be cooking at higher temps also, though - we usually run around 250-260. The one-pounders that we throw on in spare space around the cooker usually take about two-three hours at most to get to 165-ish for us, and the 3-pounders take usually right at three to 3.5 hours. What does the foiling time do for the texture? Few things are tastier at 5 am than a fresh hot maple fatty glazed with a bit of Blues Hog!

Regards - Keri C

great stuff keri, thanks! time to probe the butts :biggrin:

i've got the little butt going backwards now from 199 to 197. the large one is at 185 but the bone looks like it'll come right out. bone wigglin time!

[Smokin Gator]

I'm curious about the cooking time on your fatty, Gator. You said that you use a 3-2-1 - I presume that's three hours in smoke, 2 hours in foil, one hour out? Is this for a large roll of sausage such as Blue and Gold, perhaps? We may be cooking at higher temps also, though - we usually run around 250-260. The one-pounders that we throw on in spare space around the cooker usually take about two-three hours at most to get to 165-ish for us, and the 3-pounders take usually right at three to 3.5 hours. What does the foiling time do for the texture? Few things are tastier at 5 am than a fresh hot maple fatty glazed with a bit of Blues Hog!

Regards - Keri C

Keri,

I make my own sausage, but I would say they are about a pound and a half. I do them 3 hours in the smoke, 2 hours sprayed in juice and wrapped in foil, and then 1 hour in the cooler. I know it seems like way too long... but like I said... it works for me.

I agree with Keri on letting the meat tell you when it is done... but when I am going to cooler to hold, I don't want it at a temp that is ready to pull when I take it off the cooker. That is why I use 195 as a guide on when to take off when I am going to cooler. That would put that butt that was ready at 180 in the total mush category though!!! :eek:

[LMAJ]

Hey Chris,
I use the same run (Mr. Brown) for butts and ribs. I have found that for ribs there is too much pepper but for the butts it is not that overbearing. Because I don't want to have to make seperate rib and butt rub (yes, I am lazy) I cut the pepper in half and and add more garlic powder - it works for me. The nice thing about doing your own Q is you make it how you like it.
Nice job on the shelf - and those butts do look good - what times supper???

[itschris]

I was shooting for about 3:30 give or take... but that's looking ambitious. I've hit a sticking point and have stuck at 145 for some time... but I'll be patient. I put the fatty on and it's looking good. I stuffed spread it out and layed gruyere and minced apple and re-rolled it. I just used a regular Jimmy Dean, but I'm wondering if that's a good choice or not... we'll see.

[QansasjayhawQ]

Well I got smart and used the Weber chimney started I bought. I'm warming some coals right now...

Note to self...don't light the chimney in the birdcage... I still can't see out there from all the smoke!

I use my gasser for lighting the chimneys any more . . .

[Keri C]

Gator said above, but when I am going to cooler to hold, I don't want it at a temp that is ready to pull when I take it off the cooker. You make an excellent point, Gator. Some time back I did a brisket that came out of the cooker at a perfect point - tender, juicy, and all around a good brisket cook. I quickly wrapped it and tucked it lovingly into the cooler for a few hours, only to find pot roast when I unwrapped it. By putting it quickly into foil and maintaining that cooking temp, I overcooked it, as you say. If I pull a piece of meat that is nicely done when it comes out of the cooker and I'm going to be holding it for a while, I lay it on its foil but leave the foil open for 10 or 15 minutes to let the meat cool somewhat. That helps quite a bit to halt the cooking process but still keep heat in the meat for later serving.

Next time I'm doing sausage I'll try your fatty approach. I'm always up for a new method to try! Thanks for sharing.

Chris - gruyere and chopped apple in a fatty??? OMG... what time are pre-lunch snacks? That combo sounds great!

Keri C

[itschris]

I'm not sure what time lunch or dinner is gonna be... mother nature has been raining on me since 9am, my temps are all over the place, butt's are stuck again at 155... it's another learning experience!

[keale]

I can't thank you enough for the help... it's like having a teacher looking over your shoulder. I really appreciate it.

he's good at that, ain't he?:-P now if I can only get him to take pictures!:-P :-P just kidding brah!

Oh yeah, sorry about the rib comment, I didn't realize you were doing BB's... For regular I use the a version of the
3-2-1 method.

[itschris]

No worries... I just take it all in and try to adapt as necessary. I'm still stuck at 159/160... the ribs are on too... I don't think I'm gonna foil... I think I'm just gonna take it to temp until the bone wiggles, pull and rest.

[Smokin Gator]

Chris,

If you foil it will really help getting them to your desired temp. After you foil don't hesitate to crank the temps up... just make sure your ribs are foiled too or you might burn them.

[Smokin Gator]

he's good at that, ain't he?:-P now if I can only get him to take pictures!:-P :-P just kidding brah!

:redface: I know, I know... I always have good intentions and in the past I have taken some... now I get busy and forget!!! Maybe that will be NEXT year's resolution!!!:wink:

[Papa Hogg]

I love the vaunted vinegar sauce...it is the only thing I will put on my pulled pork sammies. Lot's of good recipies in Smoke & Spice my copy is well worn...keep good notes & you can modify any of the recipies to suit your taste.

Congrats on your cook :biggrin:

[Ron_L]

So... Chris... How did everything turn out? We're waiting for your post-cook report and pictures!

[itschris]

I was so wiped out after we ate and cleaned up. I had invited my neighbors over when it was clear that I was going to have about 13 times the food I needed. It got a bit stressfull near the end... the wine consumption increased to combat the stress, but all turned out well I must say.... better than I thought... but of course not as good as I wanted, but for my first time I can't complain at all and no one else seemed to mind one little bit.

After being up all night combined with the sting of a wine induced headache... I pretty much collapsed at 8pm dead to the world.

I did take a few pics and will post up later tonight along with some my thoughts of what I can do better.

[fivelombardis]

you'll get better....just hang in there.

[CarbonToe]

I usually make two or three sauces from different regions of the country for pulled pork and let people sample them. I never serve my pulled pork with any sauce mixed in.

Thats exactly what I do now. My fav is a hot tomato vinegar based one, the acid cuts through the fatty pork and what can I say, I love chilli!!!!! :twisted:

My other half, is a wierdo, she like mayo!!! :icon_smil