PDA

View Full Version : Judge these ribs for Appearance


River City Smokehouse
04-15-2007, 04:38 PM
Judges and Competitors- What would you score these ribs for appearance?
http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/jf/jfitz962/CapitalCityCookOff2007019a.jpg
http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/jf/jfitz962/CapitalCityCookOff2007020a.jpg

cmcadams
04-15-2007, 04:42 PM
The angle isn't great... and too much reflection. I also don't really like sauce on the bones. However, those look fantastic, and you didn't sauce the cut side of the meat.. I'd give it a 9 from what I can see.

Plowboy
04-15-2007, 04:46 PM
8 - The second pic looks like it has brush streaks. Other than that, they look perfect.

Greendriver
04-15-2007, 04:46 PM
The pics are not showing enough to really judge, but if I had to guess I'd say they would score very high.

Bigjim4x
04-15-2007, 04:49 PM
I would say without a better pic at least an 8

cmcadams
04-15-2007, 04:52 PM
Part of my criteria for a 9 is wanting to immediately eat one of them... and I do!!!

Plowboy
04-15-2007, 05:02 PM
The far right rib in the top pic is a little funky on the bone end. Everything else looks real uniform.

I like that you didn't sauce the edges of the ribs. The cut looks real clean, too.

River City Smokehouse
04-15-2007, 05:05 PM
The far right rib in the top pic is a little funky on the bone end. Everything else looks real uniform.

I like that you didn't sauce the edges of the ribs. The cut looks real clean, too.
You're right. I didn't notice it til now. I had 1 hour of sleep in a 48 hour period before the contest so I was overlooking a lot of things.

Nitrofly
04-15-2007, 05:48 PM
Your pics are Bad not very flattering for your ribs
They look Musshy from here.. I would give them a 7
maybe an 8 if I saw them in person.. Brush marks could
get you into trouble.. Marking.. Look for my ribs they will
have brush marks..

cmcadams
04-15-2007, 05:55 PM
brush marks aren't marking... anyone could leave brush marks. Brush marks that spell something, that's marking.

lazyjacres
04-15-2007, 06:13 PM
A better picture from farther away would help to see but, the 8 flat ribs look good and uniform. I would probably score down on the loose rib on its side. It takes away from the uniformity of the box. I like to see everything uniform and even.
The ribs themselves look very good, and have great color.

G$
04-15-2007, 06:17 PM
brush marks aren't marking... anyone could leave brush marks. Brush marks that spell something, that's marking.

Agreed, not marking but ....

I score these a 7 from what I see, largely do to the "silicon brush ridges."

DISCLAIMER: No judge here - just a guy.

HoDeDo
04-15-2007, 06:18 PM
I have to agree with Curt. I've not been to a contest where they would consider brush marks marking. Pooling sauce in a pattern, Brushing on a letter/number/symbol - something that could be pointed to specifically. A generic brush mark is typically not taboo. I would think you wouldn't want to have one, but if your sauce tacked up to fast, etc. it is still "non-discript", and would not be considered marking.

Your pics are Bad not very flattering for your ribs
They look Musshy from here.. I would give them a 7
maybe an 8 if I saw them in person.. Brush marks could
get you into trouble.. Marking.. Look for my ribs they will
have brush marks..

River City Smokehouse
04-15-2007, 06:27 PM
Agreed, not marking but ....

I score these a 7 from what I see, largely do to the "silicon brush ridges."

DISCLAIMER: No judge here - just a guy.


Yup! First time I used silicone brushes was on this. May be the last too!

I thought I had a better pic at the over the top angle but I guess my phartographer didn't do one of those for me.

BBQPrincess
04-15-2007, 07:33 PM
Wish I would have seen ribs that looked this good while judging yesterday. Sure could use some of them right now!!!!!

DeanC
04-15-2007, 09:05 PM
They look very good, I would give them an 8, possibly a 9 if I could see them from a different angle. How were the tenderness scores?

Bentley
04-15-2007, 09:10 PM
I would give them an 8. The reason not a 9, I do not like to see ribs on top of each other, I also think six is enough, if you want to send in more for table capatins and reps and vol...do it in a seperate box. I want to see the whole piece of chicken, our in this case the whole rib. It maybe an Ahole attitude but you are gonna get judges like me when you compete.

BTW...what scores did they get?

The_Kapn
04-15-2007, 09:23 PM
I would give them an 8. The reason not a 9, I do not like to see ribs on top of each other, I also think six is enough, if you want to send in more for table capatins and reps and vol...do it in a seperate box. I want to see the whole piece of chicken, our in this case the whole rib. It maybe an Ahole attitude but you are gonna get judges like me when you compete.

BTW...what scores did they get?

HUH--say what?

I gotta think about all you have written and put it together with the instructions I have received as a KCBS and FBA Judge.

Big disconnect here!

Be back later, or maybe tomorrow.

TIM

G$
04-15-2007, 09:29 PM
I would give them an 8. The reason not a 9, I do not like to see ribs on top of each other, I also think six is enough, if you want to send in more for table capatins and reps and vol...do it in a seperate box. I want to see the whole piece of chicken, our in this case the whole rib. It maybe an Ahole attitude but you are gonna get judges like me when you compete.

BTW...what scores did they get?

This surprises me. Too many pieces get a mark down? Yikes.

I 'sort of' understand the layering issue, you may be hiding burnt tips etc . but still.....

G$
04-15-2007, 09:30 PM
Yup! First time I used silicone brushes was on this. May be the last too!

I thought I had a better pic at the over the top angle but I guess my phartographer didn't do one of those for me.

Been there, done that. We went back and smoothed the ridges manually after this happened. I will not use silicon brushes anymore.

Jeff_in_KC
04-15-2007, 09:58 PM
Jim, looks like you got three judges that pounded your ribs and three that were pretty decent on scoring. I'm guessing the low scoring judges hammered you on appearance??

YankeeBBQ
04-15-2007, 10:08 PM
I'm sitting here scratching my head. One doesn't like the box because it is not uniform or symetric and another doesn't like to see ribs on top of each other or too much meat. I don't get it really.

I think the comments about brush marks are valid, not that it's marking but it does take away from the apperance.

I've been to several KCBS judging classes and don't ever recall them saying anything about too much meat or uniformity. Your supposed to judge the apperance of the meat. The rib on it's side in the bottom pick looks dry to me but it must be the angle because it looks fine in the top pick. That being said I think it's a risk to turn a rib on it's side like that just because it's more apt to dry out.

Bentley
04-16-2007, 01:11 AM
I'm sitting here scratching my head. One doesn't like the box because it is not uniform or symetric and another doesn't like to see ribs on top of each other or too much meat. I don't get it really.

I think the comments about brush marks are valid, not that it's marking but it does take away from the apperance.

I've been to several KCBS judging classes and don't ever recall them saying anything about too much meat or uniformity. Your supposed to judge the apperance of the meat. The rib on it's side in the bottom pick looks dry to me but it must be the angle because it looks fine in the top pick. That being said I think it's a risk to turn a rib on it's side like that just because it's more apt to dry out.


Yeah...well everyone is entitled to an opinion. And like you said "your suppose to judge the apperance of the meat." I dont like to see meat on top of each other, it effects the apperance to me. Does that make more sence to you?

Bentley
04-16-2007, 01:15 AM
This surprises me. Too many pieces get a mark down? Yikes.

I 'sort of' understand the layering issue, you may be hiding burnt tips etc . but still.....


I did not say to many pieces gets marked down. If you wanna stuff a box full of meat all over itself go ahead, if you can make it look good I will judge accordingly. But in my opinion is it going to make the apperance look bad.

River City Smokehouse
04-16-2007, 05:46 AM
The scores were:
666,666,876,748,777,777

Sawdustguy
04-16-2007, 06:23 AM
Yeah...well everyone is entitled to an opinion. And like you said "your suppose to judge the apperance of the meat." I dont like to see meat on top of each other, it effects the apperance to me. Does that make more sence to you?

I sure am glad you don't Judge Contests anywhere close to me.

MilitantSquatter
04-16-2007, 06:25 AM
I did not say to many pieces gets marked down. If you wanna stuff a box full of meat all over itself go ahead, if you can make it look good I will judge accordingly. But in my opinion is it going to make the apperance look bad.

Bentley - Just my opinion... I understand what you're saying but I agree with Steve... I think what Steve is saying is that the you are to judge the "appearance of the meat" - (how moist it looks, low the texture looks etc.)... I think one of the biggest problems with the appearance category is all to often to many people think the biggest concern of this part of the score is how nice the meat looks in the box from an artisitc standpoint and not how appetizing the meat itself looks regardless of the layout etc.

If stacking is an issue for some then I would have to guess the same judges would have concerns w/ overlapping brisket slices too...

Somethings not right with that...

Jeff_in_KC
04-16-2007, 06:46 AM
Well if that's right, do you down-score brisket because slices are shingled on top of each other? Hell, we might have burnt the bottom of the brisket and are trying to hide it. Same for pulled pork. We might have stuffed burnt pork on the bottom of the pile. Have you ever judged a contest?

Ron_L
04-16-2007, 06:54 AM
They really do look great. Being very critical I would give them an 8. The brush marks are pretty well defined, I rather see a clean bone, and the ribs are cut too far to one side. Besides a nit-picky appearance thing, cutting them close to the bone on one side could affect your tenderness score. If I grab one of those top ribs and bite the meaty side, the side cut close to the bone may give, leaving me with all of the meat hanging from my mouth instead of a clean bite.

So... It sounds like you turned those in. How did they score?

tjus77
04-16-2007, 07:08 AM
and now I know why I don't compete... brush marks... stacking..... too shiny.... hell they could look perfect and taste like chit.... I know, I know that is a different category.

River City Smokehouse
04-16-2007, 08:14 AM
They really do look great. Being very critical I would give them an 8. The brush marks are pretty well defined, I rather see a clean bone, and the ribs are cut too far to one side. Besides a nit-picky appearance thing, cutting them close to the bone on one side could affect your tenderness score. If I grab one of those top ribs and bite the meaty side, the side cut close to the bone may give, leaving me with all of the meat hanging from my mouth instead of a clean bite.

So... It sounds like you turned those in. How did they score?

The scores were:
666,666,876,748,777,777

Plowboy
04-16-2007, 09:22 AM
Six is too low. I think the brush marks probably killed you the most.

Bentley
04-16-2007, 10:27 AM
Well if that's right, do you down-score brisket because slices are shingled on top of each other? Hell, we might have burnt the bottom of the brisket and are trying to hide it. Same for pulled pork. We might have stuffed burnt pork on the bottom of the pile. Have you ever judged a contest?


Yeah I have judged a few. And your right you might be trying to hide bad chit, you should be rewarded with a higher score for that! I gave it an 8, I am sure this person would not want me scoring his turn in box either....Sorry if any 8's not good enough, just tried to say why I would not give it a 9, I will go crawl back under the slimy rock I came from, LOL!

swamprb
04-16-2007, 10:41 AM
I would give them an 8 just going by the picture, I just took the KCBS judging class and was giving low scores, and was called out as being harsh and I reasoned that it was my opinion on what I perceived as my standards. Someone mentioned that teams don't win with 5,6&7 scores and on my ride home it dawned on me I don't really no chit. The next day I'm cooking for a Judging class and it's my first time out and nothing is clicking with me. But when we got the scores they were above average and I was surpised by that! Knowing what I went through dealing with my boxes yesterday gave me a better understanding of what the cooks go through and hope my judging will reflect that in the future.

Brian

tony76248
04-16-2007, 11:07 AM
Man you guys are tough, those are good looking ribs. How did they taste?????? So were those scores in line with what other entrants received?

Also glad I do not compete in KCBS now. That scoring system is lame. It's a BBQ contest, I could care less if it has lettuce hiding all the bad stuff????? Just because it aint purdy don't mean it isn't the best ribs you have ever eaten.

tony76248
04-16-2007, 11:19 AM
They may have also scored low marks because all of the other entrants looked better. Could that be the case. Also how cleanly did they separate from the bone?

cmcadams
04-16-2007, 11:19 AM
Tony, keep in mind that this is only about 1/7th of the total score. It's all you can do online, though, as, when I tasted the ribs, they tasted like my laptop... Not very appealing overall.

River City Smokehouse
04-16-2007, 11:24 AM
They may have also scored low marks because all of the other entrants looked better. Could that be the case. Also how cleanly did they separate from the bone?

Here are the full scores on the ribs. They had a very clean taste, not too much smoke. They pulled from the bone fine and clean to the bite.
6-6-6
6-6-6
8-7-6
7-4-8
7-7-7
7-7-7.

Plowboy
04-16-2007, 01:43 PM
Also how cleanly did they separate from the bone?

Not considered part of appearance. Appearance is scored before the first piece of meat is taken from the box.

Mooner
04-16-2007, 02:04 PM
I sure am glad you don't Judge Contests anywhere close to me.

:biggrin:. Sometimes you just get a table full of bad judges. And by bad I mean opinions run high, tastes are different, lack of judging experience, etc. All of you know as well as I do that most of us put out pretty consistent bbq. Some days better than others but overall pretty close to the last time you competed. It's a crap shoot. Sometimes you get a good table sometimes bad. Hell in the NKC comp I took 12th in pork out of 91 teams and like 81st in ribs lol. At Jeff City I took 15th in ribs and 48th in pork out of 66 teams and I did nothing different other than cooler my pork a little too long. Other than that everything was identical. I just got a table that liked my ribs this time I guess. Crap shoot as always!

Bentley
04-16-2007, 05:31 PM
:biggrin:. Sometimes you just get a table full of bad judges. And by bad I mean opinions run high, tastes are different, lack of judging experience, etc. All of you know as well as I do that most of us put out pretty consistent bbq. Some days better than others but overall pretty close to the last time you competed. It's a crap shoot. Sometimes you get a good table sometimes bad. Hell in the NKC comp I took 12th in pork out of 91 teams and like 81st in ribs lol. At Jeff City I took 15th in ribs and 48th in pork out of 66 teams and I did nothing different other than cooler my pork a little too long. Other than that everything was identical. I just got a table that liked my ribs this time I guess. Crap shoot as always!


The more I compete, the more this is ringing true!

crackerjack BBQ
04-17-2007, 12:27 AM
What is with judge #4 scores? You don't see that variation in the score line often. I would like to know what was going through his mind while making these marks. This is what makes examining scores so frustrating, the variation from one judge to the next.

Roo-B-Q'N
04-17-2007, 07:54 AM
Overall they look pretty good. If I had to judge on apparence, I would give them an 8. You have what looks like a large amount of meat in the box and the garnish does not distract. Good job.

ModelMaker
04-17-2007, 12:36 PM
I'd go 8 only because the rib on its side makes the box off center.
Add one or pull one. Damn I'm hungry for some ribs.
ModelMaker