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Bentley
03-19-2007, 11:52 AM
Frist let me say I have try to look at the rules and I think this is allowed, if not deleate it.

We are a competition team, my sister and mom came onboard about 4 years ago and my sister now cooks the chicken at contests. Having said that she and I ask for the Brethren's help. She ask me to post this. Bless her heart she is trying her best, and I just don't know what to tell her cuz chicken was right up there with brisket for me to overcome!

This is a ? mainly for the CBJ's, hope I am in the right area.

I quote "If you were judging this piece of chicken, would you think it was burned? Would you mark down on appearance because you thought it looked burned? Or maybe you don't think it is burned, just nicely done?

Thanks!"

I am sure this does not need to be said but I will anyway, be brutaly honest. I will say she is at least getting the skin crispy!

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/lwnna/IMG_0323.jpg?t=1174254319

MoKanMeathead
03-19-2007, 12:57 PM
I think the skin looks burnt and would mark it down accordingly.

WineMaster
03-19-2007, 01:02 PM
Burnt Id eat it though!

Sawdustguy
03-19-2007, 01:06 PM
I agree with Wayne. It is burned and would be marked down accordingly. I would also mark down for the skin not covering the piece completely.:wink: :biggrin:


FYI: For Yankee BBQ's edification, I was joking on the second sentance above.

Kirk
03-19-2007, 01:14 PM
I would also mark down for the skin not covering the piece completely.
Never really thought about that. Must be tough to keep the skin from shrinking up much more than that if you're trying to get it crisp by finishing direct. I could see if you're not worried about that and just doing low and slow or doing them in a sauce bath at the end but what could you do otherwise, pin it down with toothpicks maybe?

YankeeBBQ
03-19-2007, 01:18 PM
I would also mark down for the skin not covering the piece completely.

You would WHAT !!!!!!! I never heard that one before.

Mooner
03-19-2007, 01:41 PM
I have had similar problems with chicken. There are a couple of things you can do. First, chicken is hard to smoke because the low temps make the skin rubbery. Second (and if your like me) you cant take your smoker up to 350 because I always have things like ribs and brisket on their also and that high of a temp would ruin both those. However, 350 is really where you have to cook chicken thighs with skin on to get the skin crispy. What I have done to eliminate this problem is to cook chicken thighs boneless and skinless. I have had some success in doing this and I really dont think it matters that much to have skin on or off. I trim the thighs to eveness then place a peice of rolled up bacon on the side where the bone was.kind of tuck the underside around the bacon and close with a toothpick. turn the thigh over now "skin side up" and lay a peice of fatty ham over the thigh. This will take the place of the actual skin and keep the top moist plus it adds a lot of flavor. Now you can cook the thighs at 230-250 withoiut risking the rest of your meat. Plus when they are done remove the ham and bacon and the peice will have a nice shape (kind of like a mini hot pocket) The last 45 minutes you can also remove the ham peice and start glazing.

Sawdustguy
03-19-2007, 01:45 PM
You would WHAT !!!!!!! I never heard that one before.

I was kidding......I forgot to put the little winkie thing on the post.

cmcadams
03-19-2007, 01:50 PM
When I took the class a year ago, we were told that smoked chicken has rubbery skin, so don't count down for that. I don't, as the skin isn't that big of a deal, though I do taste it.

On appearance only, that chicken could score much higher if it weren't black. It may taste great, but the appearance score would likely suffer.

Sawdustguy
03-19-2007, 01:56 PM
Never really thought about that. Must be tough to keep the skin from shrinking up much more than that if you're trying to get it crisp by finishing direct. I could see if you're not worried about that and just doing low and slow or doing them in a sauce bath at the end but what could you do otherwise, pin it down with toothpicks maybe?

We usually pin the skin underneath the thigh to prevent it form shrinking. We keep count of every toothpick we used and make sure we have removed every single one before turn-in. The last thing we want is someone getting hurt.

Bigmista
03-19-2007, 02:08 PM
When I took the class a year ago, we were told that smoked chicken has rubbery skin, so don't count down for that. I don't, as the skin isn't that big of a deal, though I do taste it.

On appearance only, that chicken could score much higher if it weren't black. It may taste great, but the appearance score would likely suffer.

Some judges say thet score skinless lower because the cook must've messed up the skin or was "chicken" to try it.

YankeeBBQ
03-19-2007, 02:26 PM
I was kidding......I forgot to put the little winkie thing on the post.

Phew !! You scared me !:shock:

Bentley
03-19-2007, 02:57 PM
I tried boneless and skinless when I frist started. It just seems that you get a perception started with the judges that, like Bigmista said, you are not able to cook chicken "right" if it does not have skin on and bone in. I was taught to score the meat as presented, period. If that is with skin on I judge it that way. I will say if a team presents a peice of chicken to me with skin on I am going to take a bite with the skin and if it is rubbery ( and it usually is) I score it down. That is the way it is presented. I think most judges just avoid the skin and judge the peice that way and I think that is wrong. I just can't convince my sis to try it skinless, she says not only will it bias the judges on apperance, the apperance will bias their opinion of the taste. We do appeciate the input, please keep them coming, I am going to get her on the site tonight and have her read your responces, they are very insightfull and helpfull! :-D

G$
03-19-2007, 03:00 PM
I am not a CBJ.

That chicken does not look burnt, to ME. I cook my chicken dark. So, based on others' feedback, I need to stop cooking chicken dark, as does your sister.

Most succesful chicken i get to see is quite 'glazed and shiney'. I will say this specimen looks a little 'uneven', in that the skin has pulled back, and there are portions right around the dark spot that appear merely 'barbecue sauced'.

For what it's worth, it looks good to me, I am pretty sure I would enjoy eating it.

/I am not a CBJ.



Frist let me say I have try to look at the rules and I think this is allowed, if not deleate it.

We are a competition team, my sister and mom came onboard about 4 years ago and my sister now cooks the chicken at contests. Having said that she and I ask for the Brethren's help. She ask me to post this. Bless her heart she is trying her best, and I just don't know what to tell her cuz chicken was right up there with brisket for me to overcome!

This is a ? mainly for the CBJ's, hope I am in the right area.

I quote "If you were judging this piece of chicken, would you think it was burned? Would you mark down on appearance because you thought it looked burned? Or maybe you don't think it is burned, just nicely done?

Thanks!"

I am sure this does not need to be said but I will anyway, be brutaly honest. I will say she is at least getting the skin crispy!

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n90/lwnna/IMG_0323.jpg?t=1174254319

Bigmista
03-19-2007, 03:05 PM
Here is a thread on chicken skin

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20290&highlight=crispy+chicken+skin

I'll see if I can find more...

Mooner
03-19-2007, 03:35 PM
I tried boneless and skinless when I frist started. It just seems that you get a perception started with the judges that, like Bigmista said, you are not able to cook chicken "right" if it does not have skin on and bone in. I was taught to score the meat as presented, period. If that is with skin on I judge it that way. I will say if a team presents a peice of chicken to me with skin on I am going to take a bite with the skin and if it is rubbery ( and it usually is) I score it down. That is the way it is presented. I think most judges just avoid the skin and judge the peice that way and I think that is wrong. I just can't convince my sis to try it skinless, she says not only will it bias the judges on apperance, the apperance will bias their opinion of the taste. We do appeciate the input, please keep them coming, I am going to get her on the site tonight and have her read your responces, they are very insightfull and helpfull! :-D

Well, I would say that in a perfect world, skin on and bone in chicken is probably best and I am sure that some guys have found a way to get it perfect everytime. I have not heard that judges score down a skinless peice of chicken simply based on that. I know a guy who has won many a competition in chicken cooking it skinless. Remember, the categories are apperance, taste, and texture/tenderness. Appearance is the lowest scoring category of the three and this is the only area where a judge would be able to dock you points if he was biased skin-on. I must admit that chicken is tough only because of the skin. Some guys have separate cookers simply for chicken, but me, I only have one and all my meat goes on it so I can't risk everything else to get crispy chicken skin. It's always like chewing a peice of velcro so i just eliminate it. If I was a judge and I saw 6 perfectly golden brown, smokey, shiney peices of chicken in a turn in box, I think I would hesitate slightly before giving poor marks simply because it was skinless. You might make a trial run on a sunday night and see what happens and what your team thinks.:idea:

Plowboy
03-19-2007, 05:00 PM
Remember that appearance is a VERY small part of the score. If that color comes with the flavor you want, you may be willing to give up roughly 1 total point for appearance for 12-15 points in taste.

MoKanMeathead
03-19-2007, 05:02 PM
When I took the class a year ago, we were told that smoked chicken has rubbery skin, so don't count down for that. I don't, as the skin isn't that big of a deal, though I do taste it.


Interesting...I was never told this in my class (several years ago). Since you can smoke chicken without rubbery skin I think I would probably judge it down because of that.

This piece probably did not have rubbery skin but could have been marked down for appearance and possible taste (IF it tasted burnt).

Jeff_in_KC
03-19-2007, 06:32 PM
Regardless of what Guy said, I wouldn't turn that piece in if the skin didn't uniformly cover the whole piece. Sorry Steve! lol! Personally, I would expect it to be scored down for the skin shrinking down, especially if the other five or more pieces did cover more (not a consistent look). I do use 2 to 3 toothpicks per piece to hold the skin in place. Sometimes it tears free and shrinks anyway. Those pieces go in the scrap pile. call me picky I suppose.

As for the look of the skin in this particular piece, I would judge it as looking burnt and score it down. I've seen worse but this does look burnt to me. That being said, for chicken at home, I wouldn't hesitate to hit that!

cmcadams
03-20-2007, 08:05 AM
Jeff, I don't call it a scrap pile.. I call it samples!

jminion
03-20-2007, 11:11 AM
When I took the class a year ago, we were told that smoked chicken has rubbery skin, so don't count down for that. I don't, as the skin isn't that big of a deal, though I do taste it.

On appearance only, that chicken could score much higher if it weren't black. It may taste great, but the appearance score would likely suffer.

Curt
I agree that chicken skin can be rubbery but how the cook deals with that is part of what judging. A good cook can smoke chicken, present it crispy or tender (bite through) and should be rewarded for it.

Jim

BBQPETE
03-21-2007, 01:32 PM
I think the skin has so much taste,i hate to lose that. I would keep a eye on the chicken a little more and don't blacken it as much.

beam boys bbq
03-21-2007, 09:17 PM
Not a big thigh fan, bro. Unless they're on Rachael Ray! :wink: :eek:

say that again rachel ray !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have went to judge class

this pice lookes burned to me

it looks like the bbq sauce has an lot of sugar that caramalized
way to fast and then burned because of the time on the grill

try this cook the chicken and then sauce it in an cooler place on your smoker so it caramalized slower

just my thoughts
york

Leeper
03-22-2007, 08:33 PM
I would judge that down a point or two on appearance for the burnt look. If the dark color was uniform on the skin I would assume it was ment to be darker and probably not mark down. I have however given 9s in taste for peices that I gave 5s in appearance for looking burnt.

The_Kapn
03-25-2007, 08:04 PM
Frist let me say I have try to look at the rules and I think this is allowed, if not deleate it.


Actually, a very good question and discussion.
Thanks.
Moderator's note--I did delete some off-topic and off-color posts.

Here is my take on chicken skin.
Judges reward "excellence"--at least I hope we do. :oops:
Chicken or poultry skin at "smoking temps" is a culinary challenge.
It takes a really talented cook to get it done to some sort of "bite through" state.
When they do, I reward them.
If it is "rubbery"--well, anyone can do that. :lol:
If they leave the skin off--well, they don't get any points for excellence in chicken from me--sorry.

The pic does appear "burned"--probably too much sugar in the sauce or rub.
Easy to correct, if she wants to.

Just an opinion.

TIM