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View Full Version : L-P-Que Bbq Championship-$75,000.00


arlieque
02-16-2007, 01:56 PM
Times are changing in BBQ land! We, along with KCBS, are proud to be announcing a different breed of contest. It is the new Competitor Series cook-off that KCBS will support this coming season. Exciting times as the Society allows for the plowing of new ground by edorsing a different style of contest. The new Competitor Series allows an organizer to set some new rules, yet still gain contest backing from the largest sanctioning body in the world. KCBS Reps will oversee the contest so that the revised rules are followed by all the teams involved. A very exciting concept that will bring additional interest to competition bbq and help the sport grow.

So do you want to hear more?

I have been contracted by Sugar Grove Custom Cars, LLC., located in Dallas Center, Iowa, to organize a KCBS Competitor Series BBQ Championship. This contest will be open to teams that use approved LP gas pits. Approval will require the cooking equipment to have electronic ignition, thermostat control capability, and automatic gas shutoff should the flame go out. In otherwords use your gas cooker as it was designed to be used by the manufacturer. We will
cook the usual four main meat categories (Chicken, Ribs, Pork, Brisket) that KCBS has always sanctioned, but in this contest we will eliminate the use of all types of garnish. A simple contest
with simple rules. The contest name will be The L-P-Que BBQ Championship.

The contest will be held in Mt. Pleasant, Iowa on the grounds where the Midwest Old ThreshersReunion is held each year. Check out their site at www.oldthreshers.com. The contest will be held in the main part of the RV Park. The dates are June 15th and 16th, 2007 with provision being made for early arrivals or late departures. The 60 acre RV Park offers 30 and 50 amp electrical service,water, a dump station, restrooms and showers.

Want more exciting news?

Being offered is the largest prize package ever presented in KCBS history at a single contest. The Grand Prize winner will receive a $20,000 Harley Davidson Motorcycle plus $15,000 in cash. This would make the GC prize package of $35,000 also historic! The contest will award over $75,000 in prizes and money. Money will be paid down through 15 places and trophies will be awarded through 5 places. Also, the teams sending in their entries by an early bird registration date will receive raffle tickets for a drawing to win an Ole Hickory CTO gas cooker valued at $6,650!

There will only be a limited number of teams taken, so don't run out of gas before you enter this history making BBQ Championship!!!! To receive more details contact Arlie Bragg at 615-758-8749 or Arlieque@comcast.net. Note: preliminary approval given, but final
approval is pending formal KCBS board action.

Sawdustguy
02-16-2007, 03:08 PM
Arlie,

This is not directed at you. This makes me a bit nervous. I have spent much money equiping myself to compete in KCBS sponsored events. When I purchased my equipment the KCBS rules were "Wood and /or Charcoal". Now it seems a contest could offer a little more prize money, declare themselves a Competitor Series Cookoff, with the sponsor picking what we cook on and the KCBS will Sanction the contest. If the sponsor says the competitors can compete with gas fired Old Hickory pits only. My large investment in equipment would be useless. Way to go KCBS.......not!

arlieque
02-16-2007, 03:18 PM
This is a different series and you can keep cooking as you always have, no problems. Nothing has changed!

Arlie

BBQchef33
02-16-2007, 03:22 PM
I see it as better spot for the thermostats. :twisted::eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Kung Fu BBQ
02-16-2007, 03:24 PM
sarcasm> Oh this is the dawning of dark times. Imagine segregation of the cooking field; the gasers over here, the woodies over there. Late night scare tatics by the old school. Severed gas lines... SABATOGE!!!!!!!!!!! The fancy gasers trying to push progression on us wood burners. Are weapons of defence allowed? I'll have to put barbwire around my lot. Bunkers on the front and back. Snipers flanking the sides. A dark age indeed. </end sarcasm

SP
02-16-2007, 03:34 PM
:icon_bigsmil Im waiting for parboiling to be legal. Them you will see real bbq.:icon_bigsmil

G$
02-16-2007, 04:07 PM
So, the FIRST "LP based cooker" KCBS contest is also the "largest prize package ever presented in KCBS history at a single contest."

Say what you will, this sends a message.

jminion
02-16-2007, 04:11 PM
Easy folks this not the end of BBQ as you know it. There is room in the world for other style of cookers and competition formats.

Wood and charcoal contests will continue to dominate the competition world.

G$
02-16-2007, 04:18 PM
Wood and charcoal contests will continue to dominate the competition world.

Hi Jim, in your opinion: By what measure, and for how long?

(By this I mean, are you saying there will always be more coal contests, or the overall yearly prize pool will be greater, or something else.)

jminion
02-16-2007, 04:58 PM
G$
Always... What we do today isn't how it has always been done.
I don't change as a bad thing but the market will dictate way things go.

Sawdustguy
02-16-2007, 05:13 PM
Jim,

What it is saying to me is that the KCBS is willing to bend the rules for any sponsor who has alot of money.

Fredbird
02-16-2007, 05:56 PM
Wow! It's hard to believe KCBS would be involved in such a contest.
:eek: :-o :confused:

Bigmista
02-16-2007, 05:56 PM
Are they supplying the pits?

I love ya Arlie but I don't think anyone here uses gas pits and I never even heard of that manufacturer before. The fact that you are promoting means it will probably be a well run contest but I don't see any of the Brethren (and I'm probably way out of line speaking for everyone) buying one of these pits and traveling to Iowa to compete.

The thing I love about competing is that the cooker doesn't matter. It's the cooks skills that count. A guy cooking in a barrel or a WSM could beat a guy cooking on a $20000.00 smoker on any given day. If I'm reading what you posted about the contest correctly, this contest is who can cook the best on this particular gas cooker that we are promoting.

There is a probably a place for contests like this but I don't think the KCBS is the organization that should be sanctioning it.

And it also seems like only the people who afford these smokers are the only people that qualify to win this huge prize. Hardly seems fair.

Again, this is just my opinion and it is not a personal attack.

ggriffi
02-16-2007, 06:24 PM
I would agree with everything that mista said.

gary

River City Smokehouse
02-16-2007, 06:50 PM
What's next? Maybe a contest that we can turn in carry out bbq from our favorite restaurants and win!
We can heat it back up in a microwave before turn in time to ensure that the food is hot.

G$
02-16-2007, 06:55 PM
G$
Always... What we do today isn't how it has always been done.
I don't change as a bad thing but the market will dictate way things go.

Agree. Change is not 'bad'. Believe me, I am a 'big picture guy'. I get it. Like I said, KCBS is making a bold statement.

On the other hand, I am glad MLB uses wooden bats. (It's good for the game) I wish pro tennis still mandated Wooden rackets (Game would be a hell of a lot more interesting to watch). And I wish KCBS would stick to wooden fuel sources. :smile:



But what do I know?

backyardchef
02-16-2007, 06:58 PM
I agree that there could be some reason to be wary of change-- hasn't that always been the case throughout history? I'm sure there are plenty of people around that don't even like the idea of charcoal being used in a barbeque competition, and don't even start on pellet poopers and gurus. Wtf is up with that stuff?

Maybe if enough people b**** and moan, the battle can be won, but it seems lots of fights are in danger of being lost. Or, maybe only the 'wealthy' people that mista is talking about will go. Maybe if people don't show up to cook at these contests, they won't happen anymore, right? Or is the money just too much temptation? I have a feeling that they won't have trouble getting people to show up....and maybe that's how it should be.

Maybe some other group, like the barbeque traditionalists of america can be formed so people can still have a place to argue about who's the biggest purist. Whatever happens, I just hope it really remains about cooking. That's what it's all about, right?

MilitantSquatter
02-16-2007, 07:52 PM
Arlie - I wish you a ton of personal success with this endeavor... You are well qualified to pull this off successfully and I know you will..but with that said..... I wonder how soon KCBS is going to need to change their mission statement...

The mission of the Kansas City Barbeque Society is to celebrate, teach, preserve, and promote barbecue as a culinary technique, sport and art form.

I think the key word above. is PRESERVE... To me, the KCBS decision to help support this type of rules for a contest does not preserve and promote barbeque as it was intended to be when KCBS was founded...

For the record, I have no problem with a contest of this type, I just think it sends a mixed message in that KCBS has not fully called out to it's members that this is an adjunct direction in addition to what the members consider KCBS today..KCBS defines BBQ as cooked with wood or charcoal..., should KCBS still call this a BBQ contest or some other name ? To me, it dilutes what BBQ is supposed to stand for in current context of KCBS rules as well as a good portion of it's members, which is different to much of the general public and what KCBS is targeting as a new area.

Bigger organizations, do not necessarily mean better organizations.

Good luck Arlie...

jminion
02-16-2007, 08:07 PM
The FDA defines BBQ as cooked over wood or charcoal, and we have all seen how the Feds are out there closing resturants for using gas or electric cooker. Or maybe they set the standards for those very cookers to be used in these commercial applicatons.

There two different divisions, in master division things continue go to on as they have. The market place will decide if contests using gas will last.

MilitantSquatter
02-16-2007, 08:17 PM
Jim - This is not personal, so please don't take it that way. I appreciate the job you do and the level head you always display on key matters !!!!!(Just friendly debate here !!)

I'm not concerned with what the FDA defines BBQ as, I'm concerned with what the organization I belong to defines BBQ as...

Also ... What is this term "Master Division" ? Where would members know about this ?... I don't recall reading about different divisions when all the prospective BOD's were asked their opinions to help make informed decisions on who to vote for... all the questions were about rules, judging/scoring, ability to attend meetings etc. It did not share their thoughts on KCBS decision to broaden their definition of what it was founded on and what future contests should expand to. Seems like this is a priority for KCBS to explore this endeavor,yet little gets put in the Bullsheet or the KCBS website about the thought process behind the BOD decisions to move in this direction and explain how it will benefit the membership... I wonder where the new BOD members who got elected (or who I voted for and did not get elected) stand on this piece ?

I really think it would be good if the KCBS BOD did a better job of at least providing some hints as to what is going on. Just my opinion, but the front page of every Bullsheet should open up with a "Message from the President" in every issue.. I look at the current Bullsheet and there is nothing to be found from anyone on the BOD providing updates on key initiatives...

Kung Fu BBQ
02-16-2007, 09:16 PM
The mission of the Kansas City Barbeque Society is to celebrate, teach, preserve, and promote barbecue as a culinary technique, sport and art form.


I think the key word above. is PRESERVE... To me, the KCBS decision to help support this type of rules for a contest does not preserve and promote barbeque as it was intended to be when KCBS was founded...

I second that.

Ulcer Acres
02-16-2007, 09:40 PM
Say whatever, Ulcer Acres BBQ will be there with bells on. We will have the CTO fined tuned and ready for battle. That Harley will be nice to haul in the back and use at contest for turn-ins. We are ready to rumble.

Sledneck
02-16-2007, 09:47 PM
I could understand it if the big money sponsor was an LP gas supplier but its a custom car company? i dont get it

SP
02-16-2007, 09:51 PM
Is this event a "state championship"? If so what does that mean if you go to the Royal or Jack Invites? LP?

Sledneck
02-16-2007, 09:53 PM
Why iowa? Thats too far for me, any possibilty of on up here in northeast?

Bigmista
02-17-2007, 01:01 AM
Duh! I'm a doofus again. I thought LP was a brand name of some gas pit. LP=Liquid Propane! Could be any brand. Shows you how much I know about cooking with gas.

jminion
02-17-2007, 01:41 AM
The Royal and Jack set their rules for qualification to compete not KCBS (hard to believe isn't it).

The process has been in place for over a year to hold these types of contests. You may be shocked to find out who was in favor of this concept. I believe Kirk was still on the Board when it was passed.

Vinny
I will continue to post and explain my position on the issues. I do read the forums to get a feel for how cooks and judges are thinking. I can tell you that there have been may BOD members that won't read the forums and you have never heard from them. I totally agree that KCBS needs to better at getting the information out, the fact under 1500 members voted does underline this fact. I do have to choose the fights I can take on, I need to take on the ones that I believe we have a chance of winning. 2006 has seen more change in the way we do business than anytime to date, we will have to see how the new members inpact this trend.

I have heard things about KCBS is on a money grab, we as Board members get no pay for serving, when I go to Kansas City it is on my own dime. The money trail has to be considered because that is where organizers get the funds to hold the contests, to tell someone you you can't do business because you don't use the right fuel is bad business IMO. This development may mean that it is time for traditional pit manufacture to get into sponsoring competitions in a bigger way. Not a bad deal for us that cook on wood and charcoal cookers.


KCBS will continue to promote wood and charcoal contest, that has not changed. We are sanctioning close to 270 contests this year, 1 will be allow LP gas as a fuel.

swamprb
02-17-2007, 02:50 AM
So, what are some of the brands of approved LP pits that are eligible to compete? I don't think my GOSM would make the cut.

MilitantSquatter
02-17-2007, 06:57 AM
Thank you for the response Jim.. as always, well thought out and to the point...

drbbq
02-17-2007, 07:19 AM
In 2007 there will be about 275 traditional KCBS contests and maybe one contest for gassers. I think it's a little early to consider this anything but a novelty.

BTW, I think gassers should be legal in any KCBS contest.

arlieque
02-17-2007, 07:47 AM
Thank You Dr. BBQ, I too think they should be legal as well!

I think it is great that KCBS has made a area that this type of contest can be promoted. The grilling contest that is so popular on the east coast has a place to be sanctioned now and also merit some more vaule to it. Negative comments toward KCBS, the organizers and sponsors are very disappointing! You all cryed so much over one contest as I recall the sponsors pulled out and then you were very disappoited about that. Would have been great to just have said this isnt for me but I am very happy to see a promotor stepping up to try spomething different. One person put it this way and I quote:

Guess I view this like the motorcycle groups that have their meetings/events for their specific make. Or car enthusiasts that have gatherings for their specific make or model, like Corvette etc. It could even apply to a neighbor having a party and you aren't invited. I am glad they all enjoy that fellowship, certainly don't begrudge them because I am not a part. I believe this contest, and others like it, could help everyone in the long run if we let it.

Over the years I have enjoyed cooking on my Klose and my Ole Hickory. I have never thought either placed me in a certain special sub-group of BBQ. If they had an offset comp, I think I would have enjoyed taking the Klose out there for that comp. I have enjoyed seeing all the different cookers at competitions much like the Corvette owner, for example, would enjoy all the cars at a car show. I believe it is great people have these passions. I appreciate their more eccletic passions, as well as those that are more specific and focused, and I am happy for them.

Thanks for all the comments and to Jim for taking some of the heat!

Arlie

Kung Fu BBQ
02-17-2007, 07:52 AM
BTW, I think gassers should be legal in any KCBS contest.

Yeah, now that i think about it, me too. The stinky gas will get all over thier meat and us bottom feeders in the comp circuit will be elavated to new mid level heights. :mrgreen:

Muzzlebrake
02-17-2007, 08:49 AM
I think it's a little early to consider this anything but a novelty.


I dont think that you should consider anything this well organized to be a novelty. That being said I wish those that enter and the organizers of that thing good luck,sounds like a very rewarding enterprise.

Really surprised at the course of this discussion though, never realized that a little propane invokes such emotions. I have to admit that I am really just a rookie on the comp circuit and never really thought about the gas vs charcoal debate.

I BBQ with wood and charcoal. I thought LP is what you use to light your charcoal and heat the tent. lol

Personally I have always thought that cooking with LP outside isnt all that different from cooking with LP inside. I dont see much of a challenge in setting a gas fueled thermostat and waiting but hey that me.

Sawdustguy
02-17-2007, 09:14 AM
I dont think that you should consider anything this well organized to be a novelty. That being said I wish those that enter and the organizers of that thing good luck,sounds like a very rewarding enterprise.

Really surprised at the course of this discussion though, never realized that a little propane invokes such emotions. I have to admit that I am really just a rookie on the comp circuit and never really thought about the gas vs charcoal debate.

I BBQ with wood and charcoal. I thought LP is what you use to light your charcoal and heat the tent. lol

Personally I have always thought that cooking with LP outside isnt all that different from cooking with LP inside. I dont see much of a challenge in setting a gas fueled thermostat and waiting but hey that me.

Thats just it. Alot of people have invested alot of money in their pits. I really don't care if gassers compete with us but I do care when we get excluded from competitions. That is a trend I don't like and I don't want to see any support from the KCBS. I am surprised and raise an eyebrow that the KCBS has done this. I don't think I would be so vocal if they allowed gassers into our regular contests but the KCBS has sanctioned a contest that disallows wood and charcoal and that is worrysome.

G$
02-17-2007, 09:37 AM
I think it is great that KCBS has made a area that this type of contest can be promoted.
I don't, and am simply saying so. Politely, I'll add.

The grilling contest that is so popular on the east coast has a place to be sanctioned now and also merit some more vaule to it. Negative comments toward KCBS, the organizers and sponsors are very disappointing!

Hope this isn't directed to me or to the others posting thoughtful questions and opinions. I am surprised that are are "disappointed" that people are passionate about something that is very important to them, and want their opinions known. You have to understand, Arlie, that this is the FIRST time most people are hearing about a SIGNIFICANT change to the norm. And please, don't pretend it is not significant. Your material itself declares the largest prize ever, and that the "times are changing". Again, I am not sure what response you really expected.

You all cryed so much over one contest as I recall the sponsors pulled out and then you were very disappoited about that.
Blanket statements often include inaccuracies.

I'll close by saying, in many ways I am sure this contest will be a success. It has intelligent prepared people supporting it.

Bossmanbbq
02-17-2007, 09:53 AM
Look if there going to have a contest like this call it what it is, a GRILLING CONTEST, its not BBQ and the only reason there not including wood and charcoal is because the gasers would get there tails kicked on taste and presentation alone.
Many a BBQ books that I have read and posts I have seen here repeatedly say that true BBQ is charcoal or wood based. Gas is just that, its gas, it stinks, it ruins your food. With that said, I'm not interested in a contest like and no offense, hope it is very short lived.

jminion
02-17-2007, 10:24 AM
Thats just it. Alot of people have invested alot of money in their pits. I really don't care if gassers compete with us but I do care when we get excluded from competitions. That is a trend I don't like and I don't want to see any support from the KCBS. I am surprised and raise an eyebrow that the KCBS has done this. I don't think I would be so vocal if they allowed gassers into our regular contests but the KCBS has sanctioned a contest that disallows wood and charcoal and that is worrysome.

A contest that is being funded and supported by a pit company that uses LP would exclude other style of pits surprises you?? They are excluded on a regular basis from competing and when they put up the money they have the right to do what they want.

Guy 1 contest out of 275 and your worried?

Jim

MilitantSquatter
02-17-2007, 10:32 AM
Jim - The contest will probably be great and fun for all involved which is a good thing... I may be missing something, but I don't recall seeing Arlie specifically mention that the contest is being funded by a pit company that uses LP... If this is true, then it makes perfect sense to not include other types of cookers.

I think it goes back to sending mixed or lack of messages as to what KCBS wants to be and doing a better job of getting that message out consistently to the membership.... It will help people more easily digest trial contests rather than hearing about it though word of mouth.. or keyboard.

Jeff@KC
02-17-2007, 12:48 PM
I can't wait until Jay sponsors an event so all of us will get a spicewine to cook on! Bubba and I would like to sponsor one, but we don't have enough trash cans to go around.... By the way, GAS SUCKS!!!!

Paola Greg
02-17-2007, 02:19 PM
The process has been in place for over a year to hold these types of contests.
Jim, I guess my question is, is why we didn't read about this process being in place over a year ago in the minutes of the bod meetings when it took effect? And, if KCBS is in fact intending on supporting, or sanctioning, the contest, will new rules for the 'competitor' class be published before the contest takes place?

Mostly, I just think it was somewhat awkward the way the new KCBS divisions of competitor and masters were announced by a contest promoter rather than the board.

ique
02-17-2007, 02:47 PM
A contest that is being funded and supported by a pit company that uses LP would exclude other style of pits surprises you??

So would KCBS sanction a contest where only Big Green Eggs (insert your favorite cooker) were allowed?

I have no problem with adding LP units, I'm just not a big fan of a format that excludes folks who dont have the right kind of cooker.

Sawdustguy
02-17-2007, 04:24 PM
A contest that is being funded and supported by a pit company that uses LP would exclude other style of pits surprises you?? They are excluded on a regular basis from competing and when they put up the money they have the right to do what they want.

Guy 1 contest out of 275 and your worried?

Jim

Jim,

Frankly yes! Every trend starts somewhere. I just don't understand why the KCBS would bend our precious rules and sanction a contest that excludes wood and charcoal. I don't mind gassers competing with us, but I am still not happy with this exclusion stuff and the KCBS selling out for money.

nancee
02-17-2007, 09:03 PM
what a coincidence about the money...well, I got the message and I am appalled and disgusted but not surprised. Can't wait to find out what qualifies someone as a master or whatever they are calling this bogus thing...

So, the FIRST "LP based cooker" KCBS contest is also the "largest prize package ever presented in KCBS history at a single contest."

Say what you will, this sends a message.

SP
02-17-2007, 09:30 PM
I dont get the contest. Why do they need the KCBS? They are offering a great amount of money and prizes. They have really not used KCBS rules other than the meat catogories. Why not just have a non sanctioned contest? Sorry one more question for Jim or Arlie or who ever. Does it count for TOTY points?

arlieque
02-17-2007, 09:42 PM
No it is not in the Masters Series. Hope you all would slow down and understand the rules and that this isnt any different than you guys having all the grilling contests that are sanctioned in your area. Who are they sanctioned by?

jminion
02-17-2007, 09:46 PM
Guy
What I have come to realize is most don't understand what a sanction body is. KCBS is a service that supplies Reps, a process and scoring program for contests.

If we are going to sanction contests that exculed LP and electric why is it a stretch to think that with all the tools in place we can not sanction other styles of contests. If there is a need we are in a position to fill it, we make $12 a team at a contest and out of that comes the costs of supplies so it's not about the money for one contest. It is about the market place.

If someone want to hold a deep frying contest we could sanction it, if someone wanted a all offset contest we can sanction it, BGE, Stumps it would not matter. KCBS sanctions cooking contests, that is the case and the BOD saw a need and the ability to fill it. It doesn't change 99.9% of the contests we sanction.

BTW when creating the Competitor division there was no one on the Board that thought it was a bad idea, we all could see the need. KCBS is a business that needs to grow or someone else will come in and fill the need.

jminion
02-17-2007, 09:51 PM
SP
The basic rules can be adapted to cover the needs of the organizer and the food is judged on the same Apearance,Taste and texture.

Unless the jack Daniels or Royal decide to change their qualifications the contest will not be considered for entry.

jminion
02-17-2007, 10:01 PM
Jim, I guess my question is, is why we didn't read about this process being in place over a year ago in the minutes of the bod meetings when it took effect? And, if KCBS is in fact intending on supporting, or sanctioning, the contest, will new rules for the 'competitor' class be published before the contest takes place?

Mostly, I just think it was somewhat awkward the way the new KCBS divisions of competitor and masters were announced by a contest promoter rather than the board.

Greg
This the first contest and the rules will be adapted as needed to fit the needs of the contest. There can be other styles than this one and their rules will reflect their needs.

It would make no difference when it was announced the outcry would be the same that I'm sure of it. I remember well when the judging process was changed. BBQ was going to die if you listen to the forums. I see no difference here.

bbqbull
02-18-2007, 07:37 AM
Wow, This sure makes for some very interesting reading.

My thoughts here are that on the bright side of things......There allowing people who have never owned anything but a gasser a chance to compete against the solid fuel smokers. Is this a bad thing? I dont think so. If the gasser folks enjoy the contest then they move up to a solid fuel unit.
Heck wasnt their some negative feedback when they started allowing pellet poopers into sanctioned contests as well?
As I understand things being discussed here there are still two KCBS sanctioned divisions.

Now....no way in hell am slamming or defending anybody who owns solid fueled smokers. I as well as the rest of you have way too much money invested in my Klose offsets.

Another point. No different than introducing Kids Q into contests. Just a different slant on things. Ive never attended a Kids Q but I would thoroughly enjoy watching them cook for sure.

Going to my room now.

Mike

lunchlady
02-18-2007, 07:40 AM
.....this isnt any different than you guys having all the grilling contests

yeah, it kinda is... a LOT different... those grilling contests still require wood or charcoal. Plus, they are not called BBQ competitions. Because they aren't.

That being said,
If KCBS wants this business then they do have to step up or else someone else will grab it (there is money to be made-from a business standpoint). It seems that there is a need - propane users are probably competitive too, so sure, 1 out of 200+, go ahead, but I kinda wish they wouldn't call it BBQ. because it isn't.

Hey, maybe everyone is just bummed that they can't go with their own, non-LP, pit of choice, that there's a LOT of money, but I wonder if I'll go with my Weber Genesis and get me some of that...
(to fund my BBQ hobby)

What I do know is that I couldn't cook all four categories on the gasser I have, and it is one of the big ones. SO, go out and buy a couple more? That, again, is up to the individual. A lot of people have more than one cooker.

It's really all about who's game it is and what they made for rules. You still don't have to play if you don't want to...

michelle

MilitantSquatter
02-18-2007, 08:09 AM
Guy
What I have come to realize is most don't understand what a sanction body is. KCBS is a service that supplies Reps, a process and scoring program for contests.

If we are going to sanction contests that exculed LP and electric why is it a stretch to think that with all the tools in place we can not sanction other styles of contests. If there is a need we are in a position to fill it, we make $12 a team at a contest and out of that comes the costs of supplies so it's not about the money for one contest. It is about the market place.

If someone want to hold a deep frying contest we could sanction it, if someone wanted a all offset contest we can sanction it, BGE, Stumps it would not matter. KCBS sanctions cooking contests, that is the case and the BOD saw a need and the ability to fill it. It doesn't change 99.9% of the contests we sanction.

BTW when creating the Competitor division there was no one on the Board that thought it was a bad idea, we all could see the need. KCBS is a business that needs to grow or someone else will come in and fill the need.


Jim - Once again Jim, I totally respect your take and thank you personally for you taking the wrath for the entire KCBS board of those of us frustrated by moves like this but I have to disagree... This will be my last post in this thread as I don't want to beat a dead horse any further.

1) I think many understand what KCBS is. KCBS is not a service as you say, it is supposed to be BBQ society.. Part of that society is to sponsor specifically BBQ contests not any other kind of contest..

2) KCBS certainly has the tools to sanction any type of competitive cooking contest...even snail or squid boiling contests, maybe that there is a market for that to, but it certainly doesn't live up to it's goal of making Barbeque, America's cusine as the KCBS goal clearly states (or at least as it currently states). Any in my opinion any action an organization takes at a macro or micro level should be to assist in reaching a goal..

3) I also disagree with your point that it would make no difference when an annoucement was made as you feel the outcry would be the same. While it might not make a ton of difference, IMO it would make some difference and some difference is always better than none. Communication from the top down is one of the most essential tools of leadership. Good leadership makes people want to follow the leaderships decisions.. Lack of communication from leadership causes rifts in the chain.

I sent an e-mail to the Bullsheet e-mail address requesting that KCBS include a monthly feature from the BOD or KCBS president providing updates on initiatives and reasons behind them. KCBS will surely catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

arlieque
02-18-2007, 08:14 AM
Michelle,

No it is not any different at all! It is about sanctioning a different style of cookoff, period. It is also BBQ, have you ever been in a bbq joint that used a lp smoker? Of course it is not as good as yours or any other teams but then no ones is, right? Ha Ha

Jorge
02-18-2007, 08:20 AM
Vinny, unless I'm mistaken the new class/series or whatever it is referred to was mentioned in the December Bullsheet.

Sawdustguy
02-18-2007, 08:58 AM
Guy,

If someone want to hold a deep frying contest we could sanction it, if someone wanted a all offset contest we can sanction it, BGE, Stumps it would not matter. KCBS sanctions cooking contests, that is the case and the BOD saw a need and the ability to fill it. It doesn't change 99.9% of the contests we sanction.
.

Jim,

I really appreciate your explanations. They really make sense. I hope you will answer one last question from this thickheaded Polock. My question is, if what you say is correct why do we have a set of rules that says you must cook with wood or charcoal? I would think the KCBS would want to change the rules before they sanction a contest like that.

arlieque
02-18-2007, 09:50 AM
What dont you get about KCBS having two different series. You have been cooking the Master series for well over a year. Now someone has stepped up and ask to be sanctioned in the Competitors Series and was, what is so hard to understand? I just dont get it but I still drive 55 in the 70 zone!! LOL!

Muzzlebrake
02-18-2007, 10:02 AM
It would make no difference when it was announced the outcry would be the same that I'm sure of it.

That might be the most outrageous statement I have read in this thread.

Do you really believe that when a sensitive subject is brought forward it makes no difference in who or when it is announced? What do you think would happen if the MGM Grand announced on their website they are holding a basketball game sanctioned by the NBA that allows 7 people per team without any statements or prior notice from the NBA? That is not much different from what the KCBS has done.

There have been many good points of contention brought up by this thread. I for one am not that big of a competitor that I am worried about the issue as a whole. I can see that the LP grills being sold represent a large part of the market and it makes very good business sense to begin to get them involved. The prize money offered is proof of that.

I understand that many teams have spent a good deal of money on equipment but what is wrong with having more than one class? It sure has worked well for NASCAR, MLB, NHRA and the Grammy's. The grilling competitions that many contests have been brought up a couple of times. Here they are sanctioned by NEBS, if diversity is truly the reason then why not make these KCBS contests too? We know the answer to that......money. I dont think that gassers should be allowed to compete in the same BBQ class as the rest of us. Like I said I dont find much of a challenge in a set and forget gas thermostat. Grilling, however I think may be more of a level playing field regardless of fuel type (my opinion only). Whats wrong with slowly integrating the gassers in via the grilling comp you are so fond of singling out? I am willing to bet a whole bunch of money that more people grill with gas that que, wouldn't that reach the masses more efficiently?

The major problem that I see here is a lack of leadership on the part of the BOD that made these changes and choices. If you have the courage and foresight to move the organization into what you think is the future, then by alll means stand up and say so. Announcing a radical change in procedures any other way then by a official statement from the governing body is not an effective means of leading.
Jim, my hat is off to you for taking all of the heat and for being active in discussing this flammable subject.

Jorge
02-18-2007, 10:36 AM
I think now might be a good time for folks to take a breath.

Paola Greg
02-18-2007, 10:52 AM
Greg

It would make no difference when it was announced the outcry would be the same that I'm sure of it. I remember well when the judging process was changed. BBQ was going to die if you listen to the forums. I see no difference here.
Jim, I went back and read the December BullSheet, and see the new divisions have been previously formally announced. I appologize for thinking they hadn't.

From the Oct 2006 Board minutes published in the Dec. BullSheet;

Quote; Rod Gray reported for the Research and Development committee. It was reported that the committee was close to finalizing a draft of rules for sanctioning other types of events - specifically grilling events. Rod reported that a first draft should be presented in the November meeting pending final approval by the committee. Don Harwell motioned that the contest divisions of Master Series for the traditional four category contests, and Competitor Series for all other non-traditional type events, be adopted as previously discussed. The motion was seconded by Rod Gray and passed unanimously. Unquote

nancee
02-18-2007, 11:05 AM
OK, who/what constitutes a Master? A Competitor? What are we?
thanks
nancee
ps maybe it is partially the terminology that sent people off...it it a little demeaning sounding

What dont you get about KCBS having two different series. You have been cooking the Master series for well over a year. Now someone has stepped up and ask to be sanctioned in the Competitors Series and was, what is so hard to understand? I just dont get it but I still drive 55 in the 70 zone!! LOL!

SP
02-18-2007, 11:19 AM
KCBS is a business that needs to grow or someone else will come in and fill the need.

You know the KCBS alot better than I do but maybe its time to ubdate the website.

KCBS is a nonprofit organization dedicated to "promoting barbeque and having fun while doing so." KCBS website.

JohnMcD348
02-18-2007, 11:28 AM
sarcasm> Oh this is the dawning of dark times. Imagine segregation of the cooking field; the gasers over here, the woodies over there. Late night scare tatics by the old school. Severed gas lines... SABATOGE!!!!!!!!!!! The fancy gasers trying to push progression on us wood burners. Are weapons of defence allowed? I'll have to put barbwire around my lot. Bunkers on the front and back. Snipers flanking the sides. A dark age indeed. </end sarcasm


COOL! Full contact BBQ death match. That'll get it off the Food Network and on to MTV or even a weakly reality show on the regular networks.

Sledneck
02-18-2007, 11:31 AM
After reading alll of this i am all for supporting it. Any publicity is good publicity. Its not as if reg kcbs events are gonna get eliminated it will only make it bigger. ALot of you need to relax. We have pellets, electronic devices etc already in the events.

jminion
02-18-2007, 12:08 PM
Vinny
I'm not the best writer but lets go over your points
1. KCBS has a product and it is a service, it is what we sale to Organizers, a scoring system, supply Reps and the process to run a contest.

2. Like any business and that is what KCBS is will evolve over time and cooking over wood and charcoal continues to be are main focus.

3.As was pointed out in the Dec Bullsheet it was announced that there we
have created a Competitor series, so I will stand behind me statement. I knew we would be having these discussions when the first contest was announced, I had no idea that Arlie would be bring to the table what he has but it certinaly has made a big splash.

Guy
We can adopt rules to to accomadate these types of contests, anyone entering the contest will have the rule explained so they understand what the play field is. In this case we modify the rule to LP pits as discribed in Arlie's release. Again this does not change KCBS's primary mission.

Sean
Again the Competitor series was covered in the Dec issue of the Bullsheet and most missed the article.
Gasser are not being allowed to compete in the same BBQ series IE; 99.99% of the contest we will sanction this year.

The leadership issue you will have take up with the leadership, I'm a Board member but not an officer. I felt someone from the Board needed to speak on the issue so I have tried to do that. I could very well be censured for doing so but I'm am willing to take the chance.

Nancee
Master series is cooking over wood and charcoal, Contest as you know them.

Competitor series is a cooking contest (that could be deep frying if that is what the organizer needs) that the rules allow a fuel source other than wood and charcoal.

Let me say that I understand everyone feelings and no matter how this was announced there was going to be these discussions. I do not take them as a personel attack.

Jim

JohnMcD348
02-18-2007, 12:15 PM
I'm not a competitor yet and won't even pretend that I've read all the rules and regs but I have a question.

With the difference between Competitor and Master divisions, would they both count toward the same end of the year totals or will they be kept as two seperate and individual divisions?

As for the inclusion of other types of fuel sources and people who say they are purists, well, when BBQ was first done it was over an open pit with wood and the animals that were hunted, killed and/or passed down by the owners as unusable and not worth preparing for human consumption. Should that be part of the rules also to "keep it pure"? Not to add to or create another arguement here. I'm still kinda the newbie on the block and working toward competing. Slowly, but working on it.

jminion
02-18-2007, 01:33 PM
I'm not a competitor yet and won't even pretend that I've read all the rules and regs but I have a question.

With the difference between Competitor and Master divisions, would they both count toward the same end of the year totals or will they be kept as two seperate and individual divisions?

John
Competitor series will not count towards team of the year or will it be included in the Royal, GAB and Jack Daniels competitions unless those contests choose to change their qualifications (KCBS does not regulate those qualifications)

JohnMcD348
02-18-2007, 02:25 PM
Well, then I don't see alot of problems(again, outside looking in) with the idea of letting others come into the competition using gassers. Yes, it's easier to set a gasser up to run at or around 225 but it would still need to be cooked for many hours, just like wood Que. If anything, I would see problems with the idea of trying that for longer periods of time since you have to deal with the condensation issues of the LP burning in a closed environment.

Ulcer Acres
02-18-2007, 02:55 PM
Thank you Dr. BBQ. As far as some of the gasser models, Ole Hickory, Southern Pride and Doc I am sure you know of some more.

Muzzlebrake
02-18-2007, 03:11 PM
Again the Competitor series was covered in the Dec issue of the Bullsheet and most missed the article.

The leadership issue you will have take up with the leadership, I'm a Board member but not an officer. I felt someone from the Board needed to speak on the issue so I have tried to do that. I could very well be censured for doing so but I'm am willing to take the chance.

Competitor series is a cooking contest (that could be deep frying if that is what the organizer needs) that the rules allow a fuel source other than wood and charcoal.

Let me say that I understand everyone feelings and no matter how this was announced there was going to be these discussions. I do not take them as a personel attack.

Jim

Jim,
You are the man buddy! In all seriousness please dont take anything I say personal as I am not taking up anything with anyone. I am enjoying this lively debate, this is a great discussion and obviously evokes many emotions. Thanks for being a big part of it.

To be honest I have no clue who is on the board and wouldnt know a board member if they bit me in the ass. I will say that aside as a relative newcomer, what am I to think when an organization is sanctioning a contest that violates its own rules?

I understand about board minutes and previous issues of Bullsheet but I went to the website today and downloaded the 2007 Cooks Handbook here http://www.kcbs.us/downloads/2007KCBSCooksHandbook.pdf which under paragraph 5 prohibits gas. Furthermore it is grounds for DQ as stated in the rules under Causes for Disqualification and Eviction paragraph G.

I would think that something this important would be handled in a more user friendly manner. If you want to bring people into a new competitve arena the official information and contest policies rules and regs should be easy to access and adhered to at all times. If this is the direction that the KCBS is headed then so be it that cool, but get the information out there to the general public in a timely manner. Having already sanctioned a contest before updating the rules you adopted a mere 6 weeks ago is not good for business.

jminion
02-18-2007, 03:37 PM
Sean
I am not taking this personely except with one person and I addressed that on another forum.

The reason the Rules as posted for 2007 read as they do is because those are the rules for 99% of the contests we sanction (Maaster series).

Rules for Competitor series will be adapted as need to run that contest as an example for the contest in question it will state the cooker requirements and the fact that other style of cookers will not be allowed. This the organizers choice. But if they want to hold a Master series contest then 2007 rules apply.

Jim

Muzzlebrake
02-18-2007, 04:44 PM
The reason the Rules as posted for 2007 read as they do is because those are the rules for 99% of the contests we sanction (Maaster series).

Rules for Competitor series will be adapted as need to run that contest as an example for the contest in question it will state the cooker requirements and the fact that other style of cookers will not be allowed. This the organizers choice. But if they want to hold a Master series contest then 2007 rules apply.


Then as defined above they are not rules but guidelines to be changed at will by contest organizers? If that is the case are these organizers allowed tochange the kind of meats they want prepared?

As I have said throughout, I have no problem change, but how about doing it so that it leaves no ambiguity raises more questions than it answers.

Rules that can be changed by organizers at will, cannot be good for any sanctioning body. Clear cut, non subjective, consistently adhered to rules does nothing but reaffirm and governing bodies authority.

Once again I have no problem with change, but lets do it in a unified, open, organized, easy to understand manner.

jminion
02-18-2007, 06:36 PM
We will defind the cookers and meats as part of the rules.
The ideas to allow contests with different needs other than those defind in the Master series. This is not a big step, within the scoring program we can change meats or add side dishes as needed for a contest.

In this contest the change will be the use of LP for the only fuel source and the items that would exclude lp would be removed.

BBQchef33
02-18-2007, 09:28 PM
i rreally tried to follow all this, but im and A.D.D poster child.. so i may be real confused.

First, I'd like to possibly clarify some stuff for a few members that, in this discussion, termed this as grills, grilling, etc.. I believe, what is being discussed here really are PITS, not grills. i may be wrong, but its sounds like some are thinking direct heat, Weber Genesis and the like. I dont think thats the case.

If I am not mistaken, these pits in question, such as the Old Hickorys and Southern Pride gassers are woodburners with gas assist. They have wood chambers in them. You set the thermostat, and gas fired flame throwers light the wood, once the pit comes to temp, the gas goes out and the wood burns down, fans turn for convection and when temps drop, the gas fires back up to get the wood going again. This to me is no differnet than an auger turning on and dropping pellets, or a fan blowing onto the coals when temps drop. Its just another thermostatically controlled pit. Old hickories have been competing in our contest for years, they are just required to unhook the gas and burn sticks.

Jim, Arlie In this "competitor class" does this mean that NO WOOD can be used as a flavor source and its is 100% gas for heat and flavor?

All this concept seems to me is to be setting up a seperate class/contest for the gas pit. Its like the car races.... Stock, Funny car, Indy, demo derby.. You have to have the proper car to compete in the corresponding class. Same thing here.

I dont like the idea of not being able to jump in on a 75K purse, but we cant fault KCBS for whos putting up the cash. Thats the organizers issue and where the sponsors want to put it. If I want to join, i gotta go borrow Arlies Old Hickory. :twisted: Its like owning an F250 and getting pissed off at Nascar becase ya dont have the right car to join the race. Our contests are still here, unchanged, and the rules for Us(The masters series) remains unchanged.

A new event has been born, modifying the rules for THEM. Theres no effect on me. Its a new set of rules rendered from ours, but its their rules now, for a class I dont compete in. So, imo, thats no hair out of my nose.

Alot of hobbies have classes. I used to compete in amateur racing(of sorts). We had Stock, modified, supermodified, Stadium Racers, Pullers, etc.... Theres was a set of common rules for everyone, and also each class had its own subset of rules. Each class had its own field and its own races. Occasionally, they would have a "cross class" race, or free for all. I see this as very close.

Just my 2 cents worth.


PS. Wanna make me real happy, take ALL the thermostatic pits to the "competitor series" permanently... Good riddance. :twisted: But we wont go there now will we.

Sledneck
02-18-2007, 09:48 PM
PS. Wanna make me real happy, take ALL the thermostatic pits to the "competitor series". Good riddance. :twisted: But we wont go there now will we.

When i get my fec100 are you gonna come over and help[ me break it in

jminion
02-18-2007, 09:53 PM
Phil
One thing KCBS is not putting up any money, KCBS never has. We are simply officating the contest.

BBQchef33
02-18-2007, 10:00 PM
I know that. What I was trying to say is that(to counter what i read/interperted in one of the posts) we CANNOT BLAME KCBS that the organizers/sponsors put up the big purse at a "competitor event" instead of a "masters". I was trying to convey that its NOT KCBS money.


I dont like the idea of not being able to jump in on a 75K purse, but we cant fault KCBS for whos putting up the cash. Thats the organizers issue and where the sponsors want to put it.

jminion
02-18-2007, 10:09 PM
Phil
To say the least it's been a long 4 days, that started witha 5 hour board meeting, it's been non stop since. I miss read your post, sorry my man.
You are quite correct.
Thanks

BBQchef33
02-18-2007, 10:28 PM
No prob.. thanks for your patience and helping people understand whats going on.

QansasjayhawQ
02-18-2007, 11:38 PM
After reading all the way through this post - and NOT being a member of the KCBS (as of yet) I have to agree with Phil's assessment of comparing the classes to motorsports.

To carry the analogy a little further, this sounds like the current situation where the winner of the Craftsman Trucks series has no hope of winning the Nextel Cup - and even if you pitted the trucks against the cars, there's no way the trucks could even begin to compete - unless the cars had restrictions placed on them.

With the Masters series, it sounds like business as usual with a brand new class being created that won't even compete with or affect the Masters.

It has worked great for NASCAR - it works great for the SCCA - why not the KCBS?

For what it's worth . . .

/Brother Dave

ique
02-19-2007, 09:26 AM
I have to agree with Phil's assessment of comparing the classes to motorsports.

Yeah, except in car racing there is a clear reason for different classes: the cars have different capabilities. The cars operate at different speeds or require different types of tracks etc.

Do the LP cookers have any different capabilities than a pellet pooper or a stick burner? I would think the proud owners of SP and OH believe they can cook BBQ as well or better than any other cooker out there?

I thought the whole point of a BBQ contest was getting all sorts of folks together with varied cookers and approaches to BBQ and see who can cook the best?

SP
02-19-2007, 02:25 PM
It has worked great for NASCAR


Then we will have to suspend chief cooks when they use flavor enhancers or take away point if the bolt aren't tight on the rigs.:biggrin: :rolleyes:

smokincracker
02-19-2007, 03:00 PM
In 2007 there will be about 275 traditional KCBS contests and maybe one contest for gassers. I think it's a little early to consider this anything but a novelty.

BTW, I think gassers should be legal in any KCBS contest.

If I load my Spice Wine up with sternos I can get the same result.
Will That Work?
I agree with Ray this is a shot in the dark.

SP
02-19-2007, 03:40 PM
If I load my Spice Wine up with sternos I can get the same result.
Will That Work?
I agree with Ray this is a shot in the dark.


Does the sterno have approve thermostat and shut off?

Sledneck
02-19-2007, 06:26 PM
Its a 17 hour drive from lawng island anybody want to split the trip?

Plowboy
02-19-2007, 10:35 PM
KCBS is smart to jump on this opportunity. As Phil has said, the different pits are like classes of cars in auto racing. The desire for an all gas contest is there. If KCBS doesn't sanction it, then someone else will. It can all be managed as it evolves. I think it is better for KCBS and its members to embrace the change and manage it rather than fight it.

This weekend a few of us competed in a non-sanctioned contest that was wood & charcoal only. No pellets, forced air, or controls allowed. It was a fun aspect to the contest. It was how the organizer wanted it, which was fine by me. Why WOULDN'T KCBS want to get in on these contests? They should! Carve it out as a special class of contest and find a place for it.

LP BBQ is BBQ as much as any other heat source (as long as smoke is applied) when it comes to the final product. In a blind taste test, I'm betting that most wouldn't know the difference between a pellet cooked brisket, gas/wood brisket, or charcoal/wood. Much of the discussion here is about process and not product (food). However, some have turned their nose at gas cooked food. Having cooked on a Southern Pride, Traegers, and several charcoal/wood smokers, I can say that there isn't a huge difference in product.

There are contests that don't cook the four KCBS categories. The World Pork Expo in Des Moines, IA is one of them. At that contest, you cook pork ribs, pork butt/shoulder, pork loin, and whole hog. It is obvious that the organizer (National Pork Board) isn't going to want chicken and brisket cooked at their contest. KCBS sanctions the contest. The Jack, Royal, and GAB all invite the GC to their contests. TOY points only count for the two KCBS categories: ribs & pork. This contest was one of the biggest contests for points that Rod Gray won last year, but didn't count towards his TOY standing. He knew that going in. Another long standing contest that ended a couple years ago was Lamb-B-Que in Kansas. It was an all Lamb contest that was KCBS sanctioned. The organizer required the categories of which, none were KCBS standards. So, KCBS has a history of expanding its circle of influence and yet whole hog or lamb have never been added to the KCBS standard meats or even added to TOY. I think the same will be true with gas and grilling contests.

Additional note on the World Pork Expo, at least a dozen teams each year don't cook a whole hog for various reasons. Most of the time it is available cooking space. Those teams are excluded from GC, RGC, and the payout for the top 5 overall.

As for the contest being a State Championship, that is up to the Governor of Iowa. A proclamation by the Governor of the state is what makes it a state championship. The Missouri State Fair is a state championship and not sanctioned by KCBS. The winner gets an invite to the GAB & Royal. (Not sure about the Jack draw.) Like Jim has said, the invitationals are up to the contests and not KCBS.

ADD on EDIT: I'm tired of the NASCAR analogy. It ain't going to happen people!

HoDeDo
02-19-2007, 11:20 PM
I think this is a great contest opportunity - my only question is....
Arlie - can you pull a string or too, and get me hooked up with a rental unit for the weekend? :twisted:

Rob McGee and I were just talking about those OH CTO's this weekend. I bet one or two of those would roll up really nice in the back of my toy hauler:icon_bigsmil

I also fall on the side of agreeing with the good Dr. - I think we should let every old hickory, and cookshack, etc, etc into all the events. If all the stickburners are right... and the Que is that much better -- then what is there to worry about, right? Let the market dictate.

I have used a stick burning KF, I have used WSMs with charcoal, and did 6 contests last season on an FEC-100. I think they all turn out great BBQ. I'd love to get my mits on an old hickory or southern pride -- and I'd love to play with a stumps gravity feed, and one of Jamie G's pits. Why can't we just have them all8-)

Arlie - let me know if they have any contingencies for those of us that would need to rent a gasser.... Any Kan-Fo's/MoFos ready for a road trip if we can get some gassers??!!!

Plowboy
02-20-2007, 08:31 AM
I think this is a great contest opportunity - my only question is....
Arlie - can you pull a string or too, and get me hooked up with a rental unit for the weekend? :twisted:

Rob McGee and I were just talking about those OH CTO's this weekend. I bet one or two of those would roll up really nice in the back of my toy hauler:icon_bigsmil

I also fall on the side of agreeing with the good Dr. - I think we should let every old hickory, and cookshack, etc, etc into all the events. If all the stickburners are right... and the Que is that much better -- then what is there to worry about, right? Let the market dictate.

I have used a stick burning KF, I have used WSMs with charcoal, and did 6 contests last season on an FEC-100. I think they all turn out great BBQ. I'd love to get my mits on an old hickory or southern pride -- and I'd love to play with a stumps gravity feed, and one of Jamie G's pits. Why can't we just have them all8-)

Arlie - let me know if they have any contingencies for those of us that would need to rent a gasser.... Any Kan-Fo's/MoFos ready for a road trip if we can get some gassers??!!!

Randy and I use a Southern Pride for Kooker's Kare that is owned by the Missouri Pork Producers. Andy, if you want to get a team together, I could see if Randy can get the Southern Pride for us. :rolleyes: Mmmmm... gas. :wink:

WineMaster
02-20-2007, 10:30 AM
Had a Dream last night that I won the 1st ever Liquid Smoke-N- Crock Pot Cook-off.

chad
02-20-2007, 12:52 PM
The NBBQA "Best of the Best" in Douglas, GA, offers use of any heat source. You just have to declare what you're cooking with...no other standards are set.

We took 2nd in the Invitational whole hog category cooking on a LP cooker. Took 9th in the Open with a stickburner -- BUT the cooker didn't make the difference...I overcooked the second hog!!

It's the cook, guys!! Not the cooker.

HoDeDo
02-20-2007, 01:29 PM
The NBBQA "Best of the Best" in Douglas, GA, offers use of any heat source. You just have to declare what you're cooking with...no other standards are set.

We took 2nd in the Invitational whole hog category cooking on a LP cooker. Took 9th in the Open with a stickburner -- BUT the cooker didn't make the difference...I overcooked the second hog!!

It's the cook, guys!! Not the cooker.

Yep... Rod G. wins on pellet or his stick burner. No better proof in my mind!

Kirk
02-20-2007, 02:55 PM
It's the cook, guys!! Not the cooker.
Mostly true. Throw in some cold wind and rain though and the type of cooker can be a real big deal.

chad
02-20-2007, 03:24 PM
Mostly true. Throw in some cold wind and rain though and the type of cooker can be a real big deal.

True...but it already IS a big deal. Insulated cookers have an advantage in adverse conditions...we already "deal" with single skin cookers, insulated cookers, wood, charcoal, pellets, gravity feed, auger feed, rotisserie, etc., etc., etc.

The source of heat, at this juncture, is pretty limited in its impact.

Also, the current feeling is - things won't change much, if any, for most of the contests.

Two-plus years ago I thought it mattered...now, I'm not so sure. Now, for "tradition", yeah, it's an issue, but in the big scope of things it won't change a lot -- we'd see more Southern Pride and Old Hickory type cookers - maybe - we might see more homebuilt or "Lazy-Q" (tm) type cookers...but I don't see that any of this would hurt or "kill" competition bbq. Heck, competition is what's driving this whole issue...

We've beat to death the issue of ANY temperature controls...but, more and more Brethren are moving to FEC100's and the use of Gurus and other control elements...I think the issue is similar. All gas or electric gives is control -- and sleep -- not necessarily more than say, a FEC100. And, it throws another variable into the mix -- the need for power and gas...teams would have to be "up" on their requirements and what to do if the widget fails -- same with augers, jammed gravity feed...or wet wood, forgot the charcoal, etc.

Now, all that being said -- let's just cool our jets a bit and see how this all plays out...ranting in our forum, while good for frustration relief, may be getting the importance of this issue weighing in WAY out of proportion to the number of us that is would affect.

Just my opinion...your mileage will probably vary!!:-D

Kirk
02-20-2007, 09:22 PM
Don't get me wrong, I don't dispute that if the cook is clueless, the cooker's not going to save him. I was just saying that one type can have advantages over another. Should this be a big concern? I don't know.
I can also see the point of guys like Guy who may have spent big bucks on cookers that fit a certain set of rules and then later see the possibility of the rules changing. I mean they might well have looked at a different cooker to begin with if they could forsee this change (even if the possibilty is remote at best). For me, I have about 600 bucks tied up in 3 WSM's and I don't think I could've gotten better stuff for the money so it's not a big issue.
Beyond that, who cares what anyone else is cooking on? Not me. If someone wants to use gas, sunlamps or cook on the exhaust manifold in their car, I say more power to 'em. If they can make better bbq than me by doing it that way, God bless 'em. I think my little cookers can hang with the best of them.

arlieque
02-21-2007, 08:16 AM
Thanks for all the comments across the United States. There were well over 300 posted comments on several forums about the LP Que contest. Most were happy and did see that this isnt replacing what they have been cooking for years but an opportunity for the interest of bbq to grow. The many teams that requested the entry forms for cooking have been emailed them and judging app are available on my site at www.arlieque.com. We are only taking 54 teams so if you are thinking of entering please email or call me to reserve a site!

Looks as if the teams list will include the who's who of BBQ including Quau, Clone, Trigg, Smoking Guns, Habitaul Smokers, Pig Pals, Checker Pig, Big Red and many more.

Thaanks,Arlie

Kung Fu BBQ
02-21-2007, 09:10 AM
Only 54 teams with a $75,000 prize pack!?!?!

Sawdustguy
02-21-2007, 01:21 PM
Don't get me wrong, I don't dispute that if the cook is clueless, the cooker's not going to save him. I was just saying that one type can have advantages over another. Should this be a big concern? I don't know.
I can also see the point of guys like Guy who may have spent big bucks on cookers that fit a certain set of rules and then later see the possibility of the rules changing. I mean they might well have looked at a different cooker to begin with if they could forsee this change (even if the possibilty is remote at best). For me, I have about 600 bucks tied up in 3 WSM's and I don't think I could've gotten better stuff for the money so it's not a big issue.
Beyond that, who cares what anyone else is cooking on? Not me. If someone wants to use gas, sunlamps or cook on the exhaust manifold in their car, I say more power to 'em. If they can make better bbq than me by doing it that way, God bless 'em. I think my little cookers can hang with the best of them.

Well said Kirk.

Bigmista
02-21-2007, 04:35 PM
Is this still going on?

Shouldn't you all be getting ready for the Parboil-B-Q Championship or the Bar-B-Spam Contest?

Kirk
02-21-2007, 07:21 PM
Neil, you just reminded me of another reason why gassers should be allowed. Trash talkin'. If y'all need a lesson in it, go to some of the drag racing forums (big argument there being "rice or no rice"). Could be a lot of fun if it was done in good humor.

lunchlady
02-22-2007, 11:08 AM
the trash talkin' is the best part. that should be a category in itself.

and just to clarify my earlier post... mebbe I should have wrote... "in my opinion"... because that was what I was saying. Just because I don't consider LP to be BBQ, doesn't meant that I think that these contests shouldn't be sanctioned by someone. There is a need, definitely.
More power to them.

reiterate my point... put the rules out there, whoever wants to play can play.

michelle

Muzzlebrake
02-22-2007, 09:44 PM
reiterate my point... put the rules out there, whoever wants to play can play.


HARUMPH!
:lol:

HoDeDo
02-22-2007, 10:21 PM
I'm hoping I am sending Arlie a check tomorrow. If I can get the HoDeDo's herded up.

arlieque
02-22-2007, 10:32 PM
Thanks guys, I have 37 teams now that say money is in the mail and the ad in the Bullsheet will fill up the contest. We are looking forward to a great contest! I will be in California all next week working on a contest there and visiting a friend named Mickey!

Thanks for the support!

Arlie

rookiedad
02-22-2007, 10:52 PM
i don't know much about sponsors and what they contribute to prize money in events such as this, but we watch alot of pro fishing shows at my job on sunday mornings and those guys are competing for huge prize money. my question is, is it the sponsors that such purses are attributed to, and if so would a competition such as this one be the first step in taking bbq competitions in the same direction? thanks.

phil

chad
02-23-2007, 06:22 AM
i don't know much about sponsors and what they contribute to prize money in events such as this, but we watch alot of pro fishing shows at my job on sunday mornings and those guys are competing for huge prize money. my question is, is it the sponsors that such purses are attributed to, and if so would a competition such as this one be the first step in taking bbq competitions in the same direction? thanks.

phil

Yep, sponsors are HUGE in determining the prize pool. Face it, entry fees don't come close to a decent pot for the GC, RGC, placing, etc.

I judged at Kissimmee (FBA) this year and a Bass tourney was going at the same time...it was real enlightening to watch the calls for the fishing guys -- they were taking $1000 down to 18th place!!!:shock:

Now, granted, they have a lot more invested in their sport than we do (for the most part for equipment, boats, etc.), but they are also SPONSORED themselves.

It's a whole different world.

Bigmista
02-23-2007, 04:18 PM
Thanks guys, I have 37 teams now that say money is in the mail and the ad in the Bullsheet will fill up the contest. We are looking forward to a great contest! I will be in California all next week working on a contest there and visiting a friend named Mickey!

Thanks for the support!

Arlie

Hey! My name isn't Mickey!!!

Oh. you were talking about the rat.

Jeff_in_KC
02-23-2007, 08:42 PM
Dang, seven pages before I ever make a comment on this... that's unusual! :lol:

I'm not a fan of this myself. KCBS is not upholding the goal of PRESERVING BBQ as it claims. What I don't follow is that Jim says it could be grilling, deep frying or whatever but that KCBS can now sanction it in a different division. No offense meant and not personal at all Jim, but that's absurd! It's called the Kansas City BARBEQUE Society. MLB doesn't have an aluminum bat division. The NFL doesn't have a flag football division. It's about BARBEQUE. It was founded because of BBQ. Why water down what we have with ancillary contests that aren't BBQ? I do not believe, nor will I ever believe that gassers cook BBQ. Had I been on the BOD, it definitely would not have been unamimous.

jminion
02-24-2007, 12:10 AM
Jeff
The reality is KCBS is a busniess that sanctions contests. There will continue to be Barbecue but we have the resources to sanction other style of contests. Like any business you do grow or die.

This contest has no effect on what you will continue to do while competing.

I don't take this personel, it wasn't my plan but I do understand the reasoning behind KCBS's branching out to sanction other styles of cooking.

I believe this contest will help get additional money into other contest, someone has to be the first. The master series contest will see larger purses in the long run.

The likes of Texas Rib Rangers, Chris Lilly, Lee Ann Whippen, Music City Pig Pals, Paradise Ridge just name a few all cook on Old Hickory cookers and produce BBQ no matter how you or anyone else chooses to define it.

I compete on a Klose and have a pellet cooker but as I need more production for catering or vending I will pick up an Old Hickory, it is not selling out, it make ecomonic sense to do so.

I also understand that if your into perserving the heritage of BBQ you won't be cooking on the equipement we are using while competing today, it's OK. BBQ today is not what it was 150 years ago not even 100, we just choose draw a line where we are now and anything on the other side we choose to call it something else. How many stone and brick pits do you see at competitions, how many of you are burning down logs to coals for fuel at contests? That is the tradition.

I don't want to see what we do today go away but I don't have a problem with cooks that use LP fired pits holding a contest. Feel free to disagree but don't lie to yourselves about what the tradition is.

Jeff_in_KC
02-24-2007, 10:10 AM
Jim, to me, tradition is how *I* know something. The way WE have always done it. The way that I, along with my peers, have grown up learning things. and the way BBQ was done when the KCBS was founded.

I have a lot of business experience and in my experience, when you grow to branch out and incorporate other ideas, lines of products or services, you weaken what it is that you do best. The companies that are the most successful stick with what they founded their business on, whether it be a level of service or a product. When you start trying to be a specialty business that goes beyond the specialty, you're asking for trouble. KCBS is a specialty business. It should sanction BBQ contests and leave the freak shows (sorry for the analogy) to the circuses. That, however, is my opinion.

jminion
02-24-2007, 10:54 AM
Jeff
So you are truely the guy that draws the line in the sand saying this side is tradition but don't go there. Just so you know KCBS has changed a lot of rules and the way they do things since being founded 20 years ago.

The rules are not our speciality, sanctioning is. We have to change a few lines in the rules and the contest goes on. The judges and that process have to change nothing. The only thing that changes is the fuel supply.

Jim

BBQchef33
02-24-2007, 11:24 AM
All I can say is............Wow!.

Its amazing how one contest....concept....experiment.. can spark such controversy and passion.

From my understanding, KCBS is NOT changing our rules in the masters series.. They are expanding the rules for a DIFFERENT KIND OF EVENT. Our rules are still the same.. and our class/series is intact(for now).

Forget about the business aspect of this... most likely, most of us are not looking at the business goals and strategic plans of KCBS as a corp, so lets move past that part..and discuss the symantecs.. what i think is really torquing people.

We call what we are doing a sport??? Fine..
Call the dividing lines what you want.. Leagues, Divisions, Classes.

EVERY major sport has divisions. EVERY major sport has levels.. Every major sport has some form of defining and dividing lines. Every sport has different pay grades for the players and payouts for their events.

Divisions ones...
Pro Divisions/ NCAA / amateur divisions / Semi Pro divisions
Stock / modified / super modified class
Minor leagues / Major leagues
Nascar, Indy, Formula One, Dragsters, Baha.

There are different tracks, courts, fields, rings, etc.... racing has differnet rules for the paved track or the dirt road. Wrestling has differnt rules for the collegate circle or the pro ring.. sandlot is differnt form the pros, and flag footballs rules are differnet than football.. yet everyone of these is some ADAPTATION of its PRIMARY SPORT.

and now we have the BBQ Masters division, and the BBQ Competitors Division.

None of these additional leagues/classes/divisions have watered down their respective sports, but expanded the options of the competitors. this can equate to visibility to the outsiders, specifically the sponsors and the public.. and if it is successful, this IS going to mean growth. I am sure that Gatorade will sponsor a top fuel dragster just as readily as nascar or baha. But something had to attract them.. Companies like Charbroil, Weber, Viking, DCS will be much more likely to look at a gasser event than one with a bunch of log burners, and once KCBS has their foot in the door, those sponsorships can flow across ALL KCBS divisions. This could mean more for US.

KCBS is NOT changing our(masters)rules.. I just don't see an issue.


Sidebar: Now, if KCBS starts allowing gassers into the masters series... all bets are off then, I'm sure that will have nuclear fallout much more heated than this.. before someone jumps on me for selling out, .. my personal stance has not changed. i already have to deal with the thermostats(boo Hiss boo). Set it, and forget it.. IMO, at that point, heat sources can be electric heating elements, augers dropping pellets, farkin solar power, or gas burners... who cares.. its all the same to me.. its an artificial or mechanically assisted heat source and its allowed.. so for that stuff i wont even waste my breath anymore.:twisted: (please, different debate)

Jorge
02-24-2007, 11:27 AM
Jim, to me, tradition is how *I* know something. The way WE have always done it. The way that I, along with my peers, have grown up learning things. and the way BBQ was done when the KCBS was founded.

I have a lot of business experience and in my experience, when you grow to branch out and incorporate other ideas, lines of products or services, you weaken what it is that you do best. The companies that are the most successful stick with what they founded their business on, whether it be a level of service or a product. When you start trying to be a specialty business that goes beyond the specialty, you're asking for trouble. KCBS is a specialty business. It should sanction BBQ contests and leave the freak shows (sorry for the analogy) to the circuses. That, however, is my opinion.

Interesting analogy, and the sword cuts both ways. You can find plenty of examples of companies that were either unwilling, or unable to adapt to a changing market or technology.

I'll save the rest of the debate for a day when I'm drinking your Shiner Bock:wink:

jminion
02-24-2007, 11:50 AM
You may be interested in how KCBS changes rules. Back in the beginning there was no or limited uses of electricity. A cook writes in and asks if he can use a blower to help with fire control in his cooker. That is granted.

Then there are these new pellet cookers that come along with thermostats to regulate the fuel supply. KCBS rules that as long as the fuel supply is wood they are legal.

These rules have evolved over a short period of time 20 years. In these two cases before I got on the Board.

Because a blower is legal and thermostats are legal by default Gurus and Stokers are legal.

The tradition we are perserving is a real short tradition. If there was a contest that wanted to use wood and coals but not allow thermostats or electical aided pits it could not be sanctioned under the Master series but the competitor series could be adapted to hold that contest.

ique
02-24-2007, 12:42 PM
The tradition we are perserving is a real short tradition. If there was a contest that wanted to use wood and coals but not allow thermostats or electical aided pits it could not be sanctioned under the Master series but the competitor series could be adapted to hold that contest.

You've changed my mind Jim, I can see how the Competitor series could allow for some cool contests. A stickburner-only contest for instance. I've seen many folks wish that contest rules focused more on fire-tending skills, well here is the chance to sanction such contests.

The_Kapn
02-24-2007, 12:42 PM
WOW--I go off line for a week and you guys have all the fun :lol:
Lots of emotion and reasoned thoughts mixed all together.

My observation--Chad and I have never been beaten by a cooker (BBQ Pit). We have been beaten by many cooks who were more talented than we were on that day. And, they cooked on all kinds of cookers.

When this thread eventually dies, I am going to copy it for my off-spring. Many years from now, they will drag it out and laugh. The discussion will be the action by the Intergalatic BBQ Society (formally known as the KCBS, then the USBS, then the WWBS) to allow the use of the new heat minerals mined from Mars as a heat source. The hard core "Nuke powered" only cooker crowd is pitching a fit.

My descendants will look at this thread with glee and say. "Lookie here. In the early 2000's they actually used wood for heat. How quaint! " :lol:
For me, just "bring it on" and lets cook!!!!!!!

Gotta keep it all in perspective :redface:

JMHO.

TIM

jminion
02-24-2007, 12:58 PM
You've changed my mind Jim, I can see how the Competitor series could allow for some cool contests. A stickburner-only contest for instance. I've seen many folks wish that contest rules focused more on fire-tending skills, well here is the chance to sanction such contests.

This whole thing has put me a position to defend a contest using LP but I cook on a Klose or WSMs. We don't use air induction equipement or thermostat controled devices. I don't use LP except to start some charcoal, not even plumbed into the Klose. I cook using fire control I've learned over years of cooking, the size of the fire and logs that have been aged correctly. I don't have any problems with anyone using what they want, LP, electric, pellets it does not matter. It is about the cook not the equipement.

Funny the positions we end up in.

HoDeDo
02-24-2007, 01:04 PM
I have to agree with Jim on business aspects of this and Phil on the two "series" of contests.

KCBS core business is sanctioning BBQ contests. That is where they make thier bread and butter. They have earned the respect of other areas with thier ability to sanction, manage, and otherwise allow these types of events to scale from 12 teams up to 400+ teams. I would take that core knowledge and offer it up for other kinds of contests too. What better way to make money and help use that money to spread that core message about BBQ. The fact they are sanctioning gurus is a bonus - and gets exposure for all of us. I'd sanction chili cook-offs, bake-offs, etc.

The money at this contest will start to drive more money and exposure into the other contests and the KCBS in general. And win or lose this contest does NOT effect the masters series, so there is only upside for the masters from my perspective.

You know my thoughts on gas in the contests. I say bring it. If good old wood only BBQ is the best, it will continue to win, and you wont see gassers competing. Or Electric, or solar :) More power too 'em. It's the cook not the cooker.

I'm cookin in this contest, and I'm excited to try cooking on yet another style of cooker, and see how MY que tastes on it. I would like to be nieve and think my BBQ is going to taste good coming off of a home built offset, a kingfisher rotisserie, an FEC-100, or a Southern Pride! (or an CTO, if I have to rent one from Arlie!!!)

SloppyQ
02-24-2007, 01:47 PM
LP, Gassers, Wood burners, Pellets, Tree Turds, Charcoal what does it matter. The main reason I do contests is to have FUN and enjoy the company of others who enjoy BBQ like I do. So I can't see what it matters what we use to cook on or with and whether its a competitors series or a masters series or how much the prize money is as long a you have fun. Hell I've got meat cookn on the WSM as I rant about this ( You know why?) because I enjoy it. Arlie and Jim my hands out to you both for taking the opinions of others in stride and I hope you do this because you enjoy it. KCBS should continue to grow and prosper. Rant over and BTW this post makes me a full fledged farker ( I think ). Here's to the cooks not the cookers!

BBQchef33
02-24-2007, 03:06 PM
If there was a contest that wanted to use wood and coals but not allow thermostats or electical aided pits it could not be sanctioned under the Master series but the competitor series could be adapted to hold that contest.

holy chit.. Now THAT is cool.. (If I am reading this right)

So the competitor series does NOT have a preset set of rules(allowing gass)?? But it is a a series where the rules can be tuned and modified based on that specific event.??? If that is being done, while preserving the master series..

Is that correct???? If so....

THAT is forward thinking.!!

I'm impressed. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

ique
02-24-2007, 03:32 PM
holy chit.. Now THAT is cool.. (If I am reading this right)

So the competitor series does NOT have a preset set of rules(allowing gass)?? But it is a a series where the rules can be tuned and modified based on that specific event.??? If that is being done, while preserving the master series..

Is that correct???? If so....

THAT is forward thinking.!!

I'm impressed. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Yes I agree, thats how I'm reading it as well. How bout a Bandera contest sometime?

Jorge
02-24-2007, 04:12 PM
Yes I agree, thats how I'm reading it as well. How bout a Bandera contest sometime?

You have access to one?8-)

jminion
02-24-2007, 04:27 PM
Phil
You are reading correct, the rules for the Master series is what it is you want change those it would be a Competitor series cooks. LP is simply one style of contest that can be held not the only style.

Bigmista
02-24-2007, 05:58 PM
Now that is sweet! We could have an all wood contest. Or an all homemade cooker contest. Or an all offset contest. Or a beef only contest. Or an all cooks over 300lbs contest. The possibilities are endless...

MilitantSquatter
02-24-2007, 06:02 PM
Now that is sweet! We could have an all wood contest. Or an all homemade cooker contest. Or an all offset contest. Or a beef only contest. Or an all cooks over 300lbs contest. The possibilities are endless...

Yeah... then the GC's of each of these specific types of fuel, specific cookers only contests could be invited to a Best of the Best Competitor Series type contest...

Plowboy
02-24-2007, 06:02 PM
Or an all cooks over 300lbs contest. The possibilities are endless...

Not that this would exclude many cooks. :rolleyes: I guess the sponsors could be Weight Watchers with teams sponsored by bariatric surgeons, Slim4Life, etc.

ique
02-24-2007, 06:19 PM
You have access to one (bandera)?8-)

Naw, but it would be a good excuse to buy one! :-D

Plowboy
02-24-2007, 06:50 PM
This hasn't been mentioned yet, but as I sit here watching the Busch Series race, I hope we don't get to a series that a cook has to qualify for like the PGA. Maybe it is unavoidable and maybe we are already there with the few invitational contests like GAB, Royal, Chest to Chest, Butt to Butt, and Jack. But a "Pro" series where we have class seperation would be a major change from today. Sponsorship could drive that to a reality.

On the flip side, I know a lot of backyard guys that don't like competing with the teams that cook 25-40 contests a year. Their chance of placing in anything is slim in comparison.

BBQchef33
02-24-2007, 07:38 PM
And on the other side of that, there could be a contest thats for backyarders and amateurs only... Theres loads of great possibilities for new contests. this is sounding better and beter the more i think about it..


AS LONG AS ITS JUST AN ADDITION AND MASTER SERIES REMAINS ASIS...

Do i sound like a broken record?

CTSmokehouse
02-24-2007, 10:33 PM
Yes I agree, thats how I'm reading it as well. How bout a Bandera contest sometime?

Your on! You are welcome to cook on mine anytime...

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

arlieque
02-24-2007, 11:14 PM
My buddy Neil bought Joyce I supper tonight at Rocoes in LA. It was great. Thanks, Arlie

Bigmista
02-25-2007, 01:52 AM
WE enjoyed you Arlie! Looking forward to the Autry!

Thurmonator
02-25-2007, 11:06 AM
Hope Joyce keeps you in line out there. Don't be causing any trouble. You are missing some good rain here!

arlieque
02-25-2007, 09:39 PM
Entries are coming in and I believe this will have some big names in BBQ.
Arlie

arlieque
02-25-2007, 11:16 PM
Its just a different style of contest and will be full soon I hope soon.

I just got back from Vegas working on another big cookoff idea there and in California working on a contest here right now. Take Care, Arlie

Sledneck
02-25-2007, 11:44 PM
I just got back from Vegas working on another big cookoff idea there and in California working on a contest here right now. Take Care, Arlie

How bout showing some love for the northeast?

arlieque
02-25-2007, 11:47 PM
All you have to do is hook me up with a workable site.

Arlie

Sledneck
02-25-2007, 11:49 PM
All you have to do is hook me up with a workable site.

Arlie

Got 12 acres upstate ny lets go:biggrin: or my house here on the island:eek:

drbbq
02-26-2007, 06:50 AM
Thats OK, no problem! Going to be a cool contest and really no different than attending a EggFest with only Eggs. Maybe you can get a contest together with that charbroil gasser you have! haha
Its just a different style of contest and will be full soon I hope soon.

I just got back from Vegas working on another big cookoff idea there and in California working on a contest here right now. Take Care, Arlie

You're a little mistaken about what an eggfest is. It's a brand specific party sponsored and organized by Big Green Egg dealers and distributors. Only eggs are used. There is no judging whatsoever and it's not sanctioned by anyone. There are no rules. Cook whatever you want on one of our eggs and eat it or give it to a bystander to eat. An eggfest is more like a keg party than any cookoff.

Plowboy
02-26-2007, 07:55 AM
An eggfest is more like a keg party than any cookoff.
Egg-xactly.

parrothead
02-26-2007, 08:16 AM
All you have to do is hook me up with a workable site.

Arlie

Interesting. PM coming your way.

Muzzlebrake
02-26-2007, 08:50 AM
I completely understand from a business side of things the need to expand and also understand the comparisons and references that everyone is making to the sporting world. I think it is great that we are reaching out to more people.

I think however that what most people are overlooking is that all of those sanctioning bodies (NASCAR, NCAA, NFL, MLB etc.,) all define and govern the rules that competitions are based upon not the other way around as is the case (if I am reading this correctly) here. That is what I am a bit hesitant about.

What I dont understand is why instead of waiting for an organizer to come up to the board and ask if they will give their approval to a certain contest. Why not have the organization reach out to the different communities by setting up rules and practices for a number of different popular contests.

Instead of having an organizer develop their own rules which the KCBS then attaches their name too, I think that the KCBS should define the rules that the orgainzers have to adhere to. This will not only give some credence to the sanctioning body but will also ensure that a fair and level playing field has been established, no matter where or when the contest takes place.

I dont think that this would be that difficult of a task and would go a long long way towards the KCBS becoming the authority on the sport of BBQ.

I can see why the KCBS would like to get into the Hank Hill (propane users) market first, that stuff is country wide. But how about some KCBS regional comps based on traditional cooking methods? Maybe a grilling comp for us up heree in the Northeast, a turkey frying contest down south, a Cowboy comp for the westerners, a plank cooked for the Northwesteners and so on. Now that would make for some great competition and provide another whole layer of competitve classes.

BBQchef33
02-26-2007, 08:53 AM
An eggfest is more like a keg party than any cookoff.


Doesnt the beer put out the fire? :confused: :confused:





:mrgreen:


ok, I'm going to my room now.

arlieque
02-26-2007, 09:12 AM
Point was Eggs Only!

Sean the contest you spoke of can be sanctioned. Not KCBS's job to hunt for them, organize one and take it to them. Also organizers didnt just make there own rules and go to KCBS. Competitor Series was announced at the Banquet!
Arlie

drbbq
02-26-2007, 10:15 AM
Doesnt the beer put out the fire?

No, it enhances it!

jminion
02-26-2007, 02:27 PM
Sean
The LP contest the modifiations to the rules will simply be what is legal to cook and hold food on and garnish (none allowed).

If we are going to do another type of cooking contest we can adapted the rules to fit the organizers needs. The organizer will come to KCBS with santioning needs and we will with the organizer develope rules to fit their needs. As time goes on and we have more contest of a certain type then the rules could be standardize.

KCBS did not go hunting for a LP contest, Arlie brought the contest to KCBS and we had a work around to be able to help out the customer.

Jim

Muzzlebrake
02-26-2007, 02:57 PM
Not KCBS's job to hunt for them


As time goes on and we have more contest of a certain type then the rules could be standardize.

KCBS did not go hunting for a LP contest, Arlie brought the contest to KCBS

Arlie & Jim,

I think that what you both just said sums up my argument. You both are explaining how the KCBS is entertaining different ideas from different sources, whereas I am would have prefered that the ideas been standardized and then presented for people to organize.

For the record I think that this whole thing is very much a chicken or egg type of discussion. You both are explaining how the KCBS is entertaining different ideas from different sources, whereas I am would have prefered that the ideas been standardized and then presented for people to organize.

I think that all three of us are in agreement that the more people that the organization can reach the stronger it will be. This surely is an exciting time to be involved.

Also this being the off season here in the wintry Northeast, I am sure that much better ideas will surface once we start debating this where it should be debated, late night round a fire! (smart juice optional but encouraged)
:-P

jminion
02-26-2007, 03:49 PM
Sean as far as the judges are concerned if it is a BBQ competition nothing changes. The cooks will be cooking on equipement as allowed and it can be garnish or no garnish as the organizer permits. We are not talking about major changes to the rules excepted as outlined.

If we are talking other types of food contest the format may need to be writen.

Jim

BBQchef33
02-26-2007, 03:55 PM
So........

KCBS will be sanctioning a chili contest at GuitarBeQue!!!

Right Arlie?????

arlieque
02-26-2007, 06:00 PM
Oh Master ,

If you want a chili cookoff all you have to do is bring me a sponsor and we are set. You want to sponsor it?

Arlie

Muzzlebrake
02-26-2007, 06:45 PM
mmmmmmm chili!

Jim,

The more I think about the whole thing I think what you just said about judges may be the biggest thing that the KCBS has to offer a prospective organizer...an available pool of trained and certified judges.

Boy thats a great way for any contest to gain instant credibility, especially in an emerging market area where there may not be any.

arlieque
02-26-2007, 06:55 PM
Sean, you should come out and judge. Bet you would see a well run contest and get to judge some good que!

Entry form is on my site.....www.arlieque.com

Thanks

Muzzlebrake
02-26-2007, 07:25 PM
Sean, you should come out and judge. Bet you would see a well run contest and get to judge some good que!

Entry form is on my site.....www.arlieque.com

Thanks for the invite, but I dont think that I will be able to make that one. Might be able to make the Guitarbeque in Asbury Park though. I am scheduled to cater a party that weekend but we will have to see, would really like to be there.

Thank You!

Jorge
02-27-2007, 09:23 AM
So........

KCBS will be sanctioning a chili contest at GuitarBeQue!!!

Right Arlie?????

I AM a chili purist. If this happens it might be a good idea if I stay home:lol: 8-)

Plowboy
02-27-2007, 12:26 PM
judges may be the biggest thing that the KCBS has to offer a prospective organizer...an available pool of trained and certified judges.

Without coolers of course. :twisted: What a bunch of fickle farkers we are (not you Muzz specifically, but KCBS'ers as a whole) to place great value on judges, only to put the smack down on them when they want to bring home leftovers.

The problem with societies (KCBS as an example) is mob mentality. 10% of judges are there for the leftovers and do a half arse job of judging... well, fark all judges... no more coolers! One lone contest out of hundreds wants to add a twist to their contest by specifying the type of cooker... well, fark that... NO GAS!!

I've been back to reading ANOTHER forum, and I just couldn't take it anymore. At least folks here talk about food MOST of the time. I don't know why I keep opening these threads only to be saddened by the protectionist, scarcity mentality around change. I am encouraged by the people who have worked through these questions in an open minded, productive way.

Oh, and its the cook AND the cooker.

I'll go to my room now. :icon_blush:

Bigmista
02-27-2007, 12:47 PM
I missed it. Which side are you on?

Plowboy
02-27-2007, 09:47 PM
I missed it. Which side are you on?
LOL! Pro-coolers & Pro-alternative contests

JohnMcD348
02-28-2007, 11:46 AM
I AM a chili purist. If this happens it might be a good idea if I stay home:lol: 8-)

So what kind of beans do you put in your chili:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Jorge
02-28-2007, 11:50 AM
So what kind of beans do you put in your chili:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

You may execute your E&E plan now.:twisted:

Jeff_in_KC
02-28-2007, 05:09 PM
Black beans only!

Bigmista
02-28-2007, 06:23 PM
Black bean chili? Isn't that illegal?

arlieque
02-28-2007, 09:58 PM
You going to add black beans with that chicken in it?