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View Full Version : Later turn-in times at contests


River City Smokehouse
01-24-2007, 03:55 PM
Some talk is being generated about having later turn-in times at contests and having the awards taking place in the evening on Saturday. I for one like breaking down after turn-ins on Saturday and getting the awards overwith so I can get home and recouperate from a long and usually very hot two days. I unload on Saturday night and shower and then it is sleep and rest and a couple small chores on Sunday after Church. I don't have the comfort of a RV at contests so I can stay cool and sleep in a bed so I look forward to getting to the house as soon as possible which is usually a 1-3 hour drive.

Sledneck
01-24-2007, 03:58 PM
Why not? I enjoy sitting in the blazing heat while the band plays on. OK i will go to my room now

BBQchef33
01-24-2007, 04:52 PM
There are a couple important reasons organizers are looking at later turn-in times(or knock down/exit times). I agree with wanting to get home and go to sleep, but i was enlightened this weekend as to why thats not always going to happen. I believe, not 100% sure, but think its not the later turn in that they are doing, but adjusting the end time of the contest. Would it be the same saying turnins are at 12-2, but awards dont start until 6-8PM?

1 - Safety.
Usually, awards run around 4-5 O'Clock.. which at the busier events, is prime time for crowds.. and/or earlier crowds like to hang around to see the awards.

When teams start breaking down and driving rigs out of fairgrounds or parking lots with hundreds if not thousands of people wandering around it causes and obvious safety hazard for those walking around. Event officials may lay down the law and not allow cars into or to leave the fair grounds when it is open to the public. Some towns and venues will NOT allow events to permit cars/trucks onto the grounds when it is still open to the public. Thats one reason organizers will not allow cars to stay at the sites, or allow them to return to the sites to hitch up and drive away.

2 - Crowd/spectator shows.
Most contests are not in place to line any individuals pocket with $$, but usually have some form of charity or benefactor.. ie rotary, KoC, etc. They are there to make money, and lets face it.. WE(the teams) are not the main source of revenue for the event. The sponsors are, and the crowds are. If a festival, car show, bazaar, whatever has a BBQ contest as one part of the draw, people expect to see us there. On the same token, if a band is playing at 6-8, people start arriving around 4-6.. which is smack dab during the awards. Now, 2 things happen. 1 - again, the safety hazard is there with huge rigs trying to make it thru the crowd..

and 2 - If we are all gone by 6, the crowd, which again is the primary source of income comes to an empty lot and piles of ash. If thats the case, they will not return the next year, and without the crowds, the sponsors don't get exposure. Without the sponsors, there are no events..

Organizers and promoters would prefer to give the crowds something to see and also keep the sponsors happy.. and we, the competitors, are part of the show.

Consider how all these are intertwined, the base event(carnival, car show, bands playing, etc).. , the sponsors, the crowds, and us.. There are so many things to look out for, and consider when putting together events.. its is not for the meek.. What I learned this weekend at KCBS is that what we see as competitors are a very very VERY small part of the big picture.

These are NOT the sole reasons.. dont take it as gospel.. its what I learned at KCBS this weekend from talking to many people, and having a few meetings and may be just my interpertations. Hopefully some tof the experts will chime in too. But I believe these are just a couple reasons we may see later turn-in times at some events.

bigabyte
01-24-2007, 04:59 PM
I would be jsut fine with it. I wouldn't have to burn a vacation day at work to take Friday off, I could arrive Friday night and set up. I wouldn't have to stay Saturday night either, just go home, and still have Sunday to unwind. Of course, being in KC means I have nearby comps so there is no long drive home for me. I'm sure for those with long drives it would make a difference, but not for me. The way I see it, I will either spend 1.5 days in the heat (all Friday and half Saturday), or 1.5 days in the heat (Friday PM and all Saturday). That's just me however, one size does not fit all. And I'm still so comp green my opinion should probably be divided into a fraction.

Sawdustguy
01-24-2007, 05:30 PM
Poobah,

I understand what you are saying and to some degree agree but what is not being considered is that alot of the contests here and in New England are Saturday and Sunday events. I for one would not like to be held hostage until 8:00 Sunday Night before I can leave for home. Especially when I have to return to work on Monday. While this may work on a Saturday, I don't think it works on a Sunday.

lunchlady
01-24-2007, 07:16 PM
I hear that about the New England contests. I also know that some of the events up here simply state in the packet that you may not leave your vehicle on site AT ALL, and still others say that you will be stuck there for the duration. The bottom line ... it is up to each organizer.

As long as it is known ahead of time, the teams can then make the decision to cook an event or not.

I also attended those meetings and the reasons FOR were very important...safety first.
lunchlady

chad
01-24-2007, 07:32 PM
Safety can be an issue, but nearly every event we go to sets a no-earlier-than departure time -- and should enforce the no vehicle or no vehicle movement rules that are already in place.

Shifting cook schedules is no big deal. Holding teams hostage for the "public" is foolish -- teams that schmooze the public do so already...those that don't won't, even if held on-site longer.

All teams start cleanup and teardown following turn-ins. Especially with small teams this time is valuable before we crash and burn.

Each event can and should be allowed to make it's own decision regarding turnins and departure rules...it sounds like there may be valid reasons up in the NE for later turnins...but this should be clearly articulated in the packages and rules sessions...

As a general wide-ranging change I wouldn't support it. If I'm close enough to get home that night I want to LEAVE after awards or right on the "allowed to move" time.

tommykendall
01-24-2007, 07:38 PM
Seems to me that people generally want to get results, pack up and get the fark home. It's not like most of the competitors live around the corner.

smknwhlswife
01-24-2007, 08:30 PM
If I live more than a couple hours from home... I am going to sleep over anyway. Having said that - Many of the venues don't allow you to keep your spot until Sunday. If it is a city street - you have to be packed up by 6-7pm to open the road. For campgroungs - many want to charge you additional for Sat. evening.

I think if they want to change the times too much, they would need to look at the impact for the cookers - and insure it isnt going to cost them too much more in time and money to make the change. If it does, you could lose alot of your teams, just due to that. Or you will cause more accidents - you get a tired group of folks, and make them go home later - after dark in some instances - and you will see more accidents from tired folk. Later times are ok - you just have to look at the ramifications for changing them.

BBQchef33
01-24-2007, 08:45 PM
first, i think i better clarify, that the discussion I was part of were just bringing up some issues and problems and solutions that arose during this past season for a few organizers. It was more of a horse and pony show about a few events. Some of which had big name bands and tremendous crowds. IT WAS NOT A DISCUSSION OF CHANGING ANY RULES OR REGULATIONS. It was "heres what happened and heres what I did".. that is all.

anyway..

Or you will cause more accidents - you get a tired group of folks, and make them go home later - after dark in some instances - and you will see more accidents from tired folk. Later times are ok - you just have to look at the ramifications for changing them.

Now thats MY biggest concern for a later turn-in/exit times. After a contest, I am shot.. can hardly stand up and the worse thing is trying to stay awake for a 5 hour drive home with a trailer flinging around the back of the truck. I wouldnt mind a later turn-in if it didnt take them 2-3 hours to tabulate results, but sending me on my way at 7-8 oclock, unless i get to sleep some, is gonna make me a hazard.. ok for a saturday where we can get a hotel, but like sawdust says, for a sunday contest, that will present a problem.

HoDeDo
01-24-2007, 08:51 PM
Phil - I have to agree. We always stop or stay if it is going to be a long drive. Too much precious cargo to risk makin it home. Not to mention taking out a lane of traffic with 32' of trailer weighing 10,000lbs.

butts
01-24-2007, 09:04 PM
Tough call. Most of our contests are with in an hour of the house, so It wouldn't be a big deal. I have to agree with the Saturday visitors wanting to see all of the teams. It's a coin toss for me.

Jeff_in_KC
01-24-2007, 09:41 PM
I'm against it for the same fatigue factor. I'm farkin BEAT by the time we're packed up and all I want to do is hit the road and get the hell home.

SP
01-24-2007, 09:59 PM
So if turn in is done at 7pm and Im cooking a brisket for 12 hrs it has to go on at 7am. I need a couple hrs to prep it. Thats 5 am. But if I want to absorb flavor. OK thats 2 am. I got to set up my stuff. Midnight. Damn wish that contest would have started on Friday. Plus the award ceromony wouldnt start until midnight at larger events. keep it that same.

Bigjim4x
01-25-2007, 12:03 AM
I know i want to get it over with!

drbbq
01-25-2007, 06:22 AM
So if turn in is done at 7pm and Im cooking a brisket for 12 hrs it has to go on at 7am. I need a couple hrs to prep it. Thats 5 am. But if I want to absorb flavor. OK thats 2 am. I got to set up my stuff. Midnight. Damn wish that contest would have started on Friday. Plus the award ceromony wouldnt start until midnight at larger events. keep it that same.

I don't think anyone is proposing a schedule that would have the awards at midnight. I think an event might see value in the awards being held at 7:00 pm though.

The_Kapn
01-25-2007, 07:28 AM
I really think this is one of those things where the "Marketplace" will decide the schedule.

1. Organizers will make a decision and post the schedule.
2. Teams will particpate or not based on their individual situation.
3. There will be lots of critique and feedback on the Forums.
4. Other organizers will listen (or not) and make their decisions.
5. Over time, the events will "grow and prosper" or "wither and die".

Only time will tell.

JMHO

TIM

SP
01-25-2007, 07:32 AM
I know Doc I was just making a little fun. We have enough events in KC area that I can stay with in a couple hours of my house and have lots of choices. So awads being between 3-6 usually lets me get home and unload at a decent hour. I understand that some of the reason is for the event to make a little more money. I like it the way it is but will compete still with most changes they make.

SinginBob
01-25-2007, 08:51 AM
I know i want to get it over with!

Amen to that! How about EARLIER turn in times so we can get home and crash earlier?!

River City Smokehouse
01-25-2007, 09:23 AM
I understand that some of the reason is for the event to make a little more money.


I think time will have to tell in this situation. If Joe Blow Contest changes the times and causes teams to drop out from competing, the loss in entry fees alone could hurt them to the point that the profit in the vending won't make up for it.
For instance, say the organizer will make an extra $1,500 from making the changes but 10 teams drop out and they lose 10-$250.00 entries. Do the math. If Oklahoma Joes contest did this and lost just 10% of their entries due to the changes, they would have to vend/sell almost $3,000 + in order to make up the loss. I think it would kinda hard to sell that much in 4 hours time. I've been there, the public isn't eating that much bbq to make up that amount in such a short time.

Greendriver
01-25-2007, 09:49 AM
This can be considered so much newbie blather - but it's one of them times that what's in has got to come out. I think this is a serious threat to the future of this great sport / hobby. The poll above is what I see is important here and not what the crowd or the organizers think. If the crowd or organizers think they can have a contest without the cooks, let them buy all their own cookers and tons of other equipment including trailers etc and do their own cooking. Don't get me wrong, I realize the three groups are realiant on each other infinitely, but any difficulties need to be worked out with the cooks interest being first in line of importance. I can't imagine it being too very difficult to address the "crowd came to see cooks and cooks are loading and leaving" issue or the "safety" issue either without disregarding the cooks needs. With all the volunteers available just ask the cooks to make sure they have at least one volunteer to help them exit the premises if leaving while a big crowd is still on the ground. As far as the crowd not getting to see cooking, the vendors are still there and besides all the organizers have to do is spell out in their ads, flyers, etc when to attend or not for the cooking part. I also have to point out that the future of this sport has got to rely on the new people coming into it much the same as we are always told the future of America lies in our kids, so anybody knows forcing cooks to stay another day or sending them home in the middle of the night because they can't afford to stay is not the way to do it. Now if all contest were held on the grounds of a four star Hotel and every cook and helper provided a room as long as they needed it I'd think the change would be way better and I'd be all for it. Nah, just kidding, you'd still have plenty of folks that need to be home sooner rather than later for a number of legit reasons.

River City Smokehouse
01-25-2007, 11:02 AM
I am more than happy to let the public watch me cook, but they better get ther Friday and be willing to sit up through the night cause that's when she gets going!

Oh yeah, I see just as much of a liability problem with the water haulers, poop suckers, trash haulers, and security people driving around the grounds as I do someone leaving to go home.

cmcadams
01-25-2007, 01:50 PM
I figure it's usually hot enough at some comps when doing turn ins. Waiting until it's even hotter could get miserable and even dangerous at July/August/Sept comps especially. Who's going to say their too hot to put their entries in, after cooking all night?

ole'e
01-25-2007, 04:14 PM
hey why not make turn in times earlier so we can beat the heat and get home in a decent hour so we are not a hazard to other drivers. As soon as the last turn in is done I start packing up. Do not get me wrong I do not mind the public asking questions or watching what we do. I will talk to them show them the cooker or what ever.
Eric

scottyd
01-25-2007, 07:08 PM
I would say lets just leave things the way they are, and lets have the contests let us who want to stay overnight saturday stay. I always have a 5 to 6 hour drive home. I would welcome a chance to stay over night and then drive on sunday morning. Otherwise I have to get a motel room or play the tourist deal and stay in the walmart parking lot!!!!!

HoDeDo
01-26-2007, 07:32 AM
I would say lets just leave things the way they are, and lets have the contests let us who want to stay overnight saturday stay. I always have a 5 to 6 hour drive home. I would welcome a chance to stay over night and then drive on sunday morning. Otherwise I have to get a motel room or play the tourist deal and stay in the walmart parking lot!!!!! There's alot to be said for Wal-mart lots :shock:

Greatgrills
01-26-2007, 09:20 PM
We say leave it as it is...Why change now??? If it aint broke!!!! To each his own but we prefer the Fri/Sat contest..Yes we may drive home on a Sunday every now and then but once the contest is over and were packed up on SaturDAY we go to the hotel and CRASH!!!! Don't know if we wouldnt do a contest if it changed but like we said if it aint broke

Bigjim4x
01-26-2007, 10:15 PM
I think that it also depends on what santioning body you are cooking for. With KCBS I think most of the turn in's are over by 1:30 or 2:00. With MIM unless you make finals your done by 1:30. With the IBCA turn in's can go as late as 3:30 already. I think anything past that is to late. It takes some time to get packed up and relax alittle before the awards. I wouldn't have that much of a problem with a contest moving to Saturday and Sunday as long as the turn in's were early enough to get on the road by 6pm. It's just as easy to take off on Monday as it is to take off on Friday. That would allow the events to have 2 day's that the public could attend. Just my 2 cents.

Doorbusters
01-27-2007, 09:10 AM
The GAB has already announced changes this year. It is now going to consume the 3 day weekend. I agree with most, get me the fark home!

ThomEmery
01-27-2007, 09:16 AM
In the West a contest is a two night deal
our close ones are 200 miles many are 600 plus
miles so we are not going to be home saturday
I have one I do in a RV park GREAT two night deal
Free spaces w/ hook ups