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Merl
12-14-2006, 11:58 AM
The 2007 KCBS rules have been posted on the website:

www.kcbs.us (http://www.kcbs.us)

There were few changes made for 2007. The three significant ones, had to do with cleanliness, disqualification and fraternization by judges the day of the contest.

Be certain to review the rules and add to you competition notebook or folders.

Good luck in 07"
Merl Whitebook

MilitantSquatter
12-14-2006, 12:08 PM
Thanks Merl...

not trying to read too far into things, but can you clarify if the definition of turn-in day in the eyes of the rules begins at midnight or after sunrise etc. ?

"Judges may not fraternize with teams on turn-in day until conclusion of judging."

Also...

"Cleanliness of the cook,assistant cooks,cooking device(s) and the team’s assigned cooking space is required."

Are the reps going to be required to inspect the smokers for cleanliness during meat inspection etc. ?

CharlieBeasley
12-14-2006, 12:10 PM
Thanks Merl

Merl
12-14-2006, 12:21 PM
We discussed that and did not set a specific time, due to different cirumstances of each contest. With that being said, the opinion was that about the time quiet hours ends, meats were being pulled from pits and boxes prep begins, would signal the day of the contest. (yes I know some box prep is done earlier.) The feeling was that judges should not be observing or in the area, when the beginning of the final product was coming together.

In short, in my opinion, the period should begin before the second cup of coffee is poured.
Merl

MilitantSquatter
12-14-2006, 12:28 PM
Thanks Merl...

Not sure about circumstances surroundine each contest but I think the that while the rule it good, as it reads, it is still vague and should note a specific time if it is to be enforced(ex. at end of contest's noted quiet hours, 6AM etc...) A rule is only as good as it is clear and specific. Leaving it to interpretation is not ideal IMO.

What about the cleanliness of the cooker criteria ?

nascarchuck
12-14-2006, 12:41 PM
I have never entered a contest, or even been to one, but this is something of interest to me. I hope to attend and maybe even enter in the future.

I read the rules as posted and have a question, if you don't mind answering a rookie question.

Rule #13 states "Rosettes of meat slices are not allowed."

Would you be so kind as to explain what a rosette is. I am assuming that it is a decorative design made out of the meat, but not sure.

As for the question concerning the cutoff time for the judges to fraternize with the teams, I agree with MilitantSquatter. I believe that will be a hard rule to enforce if there isn't a set time. Hope that I'm not out of line with my opinion.


Thanks...

Chuck

parrothead
12-14-2006, 02:34 PM
Thanks Chuck. Never out of line with opinions or questions.

Meat, can not be "marked" in any way that would signify to a certian judge that that is your turn-in. Rosettes would be a means of doing that. Also, sculpting meat is a no-no. Such as placing pulled pork in the shape of #1 or similar things.

Jeff_in_KC
12-14-2006, 06:48 PM
The cleanliness of smokers became an issue when the issue was raised at the rules meeting. Someone had a dog piss on their smoker. Another observed a smoker full of mold and would not let that team cook for the contest until they left and had it cleaned. I saw one last year at DeSoto, Kansas that was FULL of mold. the team didn't realize it til they opened it up to show me the inner workings. NASTY chit!!! Basically, if accepted by the board as proposed in the rules meeting, it will just give the contest organizers and reps the ability to make a team clean up a rancid cooker. They aren't supposed to go looking for it but if it surfaces, they will have the authority to do something about it. Not a bad deal IMO.

jminion
12-14-2006, 07:12 PM
Jeff
You have a well defind idea of what is expected, is there really a need to tell a team their equipment is dirty? I would hope not but we have in some cases found it to be true.

parrothead
12-14-2006, 07:49 PM
Jeff
You have a well defind idea of what is expected, is there really a need to tell a team their equipment is dirty? I would hope not but we have in some cases found it to be true.

Unfortunately, we do have to tell people that some times. I have had the same thing happen to me at the worst moment and everyone involved drops what they are doing and the first priority is cleaning the equipment.

DeanC
12-14-2006, 09:42 PM
I agree with Jeff that it is a good idea and I would not be offended if equipment inspections were made at check in time. I'm not talking about a whip out the white glove spit shine test on every piece of chit you haul into a cookoff. I wouldn't be offended if an organizer asked me to open up my cooker to make sure a science fair project wasn't being replicated. I have witnessed some pretty nasty stuff in the past three years. Just my opinion.

nancee
12-14-2006, 09:49 PM
maybe its not rancid...just on fire<g>
oops, that was the trailer that was on fire, wasn't it?...
nancee

Unfortunately, we do have to tell people that some times. I have had the same thing happen to me at the worst moment and everyone involved drops what they are doing and the first priority is cleaning the equipment.

Sledneck
12-14-2006, 11:04 PM
Thanks Merl...

not trying to read too far into things, but can you clarify if the definition of turn-in day in the eyes of the rules begins at midnight or after sunrise etc. ?

"Judges may not fraternize with teams on turn-in day until conclusion of judging."

Also...

"Cleanliness of the cook,assistant cooks,cooking device(s) and the teamís assigned cooking space is required."

Are the reps going to be required to inspect the smokers for cleanliness during meat inspection etc. ?

So since i compete and my wife judges she has to basically ignore me until turn in time? Thats lame, the odd of her judging one of my boxes is slim, she said after all that food she couldnt tell what was mine even if she had tasted it before, i would not not jeopordize all the money i put into a contest by cheating anyway but that rule is a little off, i think it great that judges get to see teams and get into it, who the hell wants to be bothered after turn ins?

LostNation
12-15-2006, 04:56 AM
So since i compete and my wife judges she has to basically ignore me until turn in time?


I don't think immediate family members of the cooks should be allowed to judge. Maybe not in your case but if a team used a unique sauce or presentation a family member could pick it out and score it higher. I think it's great to involve family in competition cooking but as a table captain or helping change the numbers is probably a better position for immediate family.

Roo-B-Q'N
12-15-2006, 07:57 AM
I am glad my wife and I got into judging last year verses this year. We intentionally went through the judging class to go to events and see what others do in the way of setting up, cooking and all that goes into cooking at a comp. You know learn before jumping into competition. Isn't that what one of the things KCBS is supposed to be . . . education?

Sounds like the juding rule was not thought out at all and was more of a knee jerk reaction.

ModelMaker
12-16-2006, 09:54 AM
I don't really know what to think about the judges frat rule. I understand its intent but a couple of contests this last year I didn't do the Friday night thing but only showed up early Saturday morning to chat before the judges meeting. I was never around when things started hopping and would have missed meeting some really nice people had I not been able to stroll around.
I always had my judges shirt on Saturday mornings. Is that a bad thing? Does it make a difference to you cooks one way or the other if you know I'm going to be judging in a couple hours?
ModelMaker

ggriffi
12-16-2006, 03:11 PM
So since i compete and my wife judges she has to basically ignore me until turn in time? Thats lame, the odd of her judging one of my boxes is slim, she said after all that food she couldnt tell what was mine even if she had tasted it before, i would not not jeopordize all the money i put into a contest by cheating anyway but that rule is a little off, i think it great that judges get to see teams and get into it, who the hell wants to be bothered after turn ins?

Before we competed the first time we went to Racine to check things out and the gal running the show told me that you couldn't have a family member judging if another one was cookin. Don't know if she is right or wrong but I had asked because the better half talked about maybe wanting to judge.

g

Sledneck
12-17-2006, 03:48 AM
At a contest where i judged i was hanging with a team and when they opened the cooker they either asked me to leave or turn my back.From what ive seen most of us dont want to win by cheating

HoDeDo
12-17-2006, 10:11 AM
I don't really know what to think about the judges frat rule. I understand its intent but a couple of contests this last year I didn't do the Friday night thing but only showed up early Saturday morning to chat before the judges meeting. I was never around when things started hopping and would have missed meeting some really nice people had I not been able to stroll around.
I always had my judges shirt on Saturday mornings. Is that a bad thing? Does it make a difference to you cooks one way or the other if you know I'm going to be judging in a couple hours?
ModelMaker

Some people will let anyone in thier camp.... :twisted: Looking forward to at least seeing you in Marshalltown, if not many others.

Personally, I don't pay attention to much of what is goin on around me after about 8:00 Sat. Morning. I'm focused on the turn-in's, and likely not talking to anyone, more like barking orders at anyone who is silly enough to take them from me. I would like to think our judges can conduct themselves in an honorable, unbiased fashion - and base thier judging on the table of in front of them. If that was abused, I'm sure some folks have raised the issue - and a rule has been generated. At any given contest - if you food is consistent, good, and well liked, it will find its way towards the top. This is why you hear alot of names over and over... In general, I have to have faith that the judges, organizers, and other cooks.

jminion
12-17-2006, 12:20 PM
So since i compete and my wife judges she has to basically ignore me until turn in time? Thats lame, the odd of her judging one of my boxes is slim, she said after all that food she couldnt tell what was mine even if she had tasted it before, i would not not jeopordize all the money i put into a contest by cheating anyway but that rule is a little off, i think it great that judges get to see teams and get into it, who the hell wants to be bothered after turn ins?
Steve
If I was the Rep your wife would not be judging, not a good practice. Leaves you (the Rep) open for problems you don't need.

The fact that most won't cheat is not the point, perception is reality for many and as the money get's bigger teams will not understand or even be willing to listen to how you would not cheat.

WalterSC
12-17-2006, 10:19 PM
Well my wife would not . I know that cause she told me so. Besides she is my hardest critic so she does the taste testing!! LOL

lunchlady
12-18-2006, 08:25 PM
I don't think KCBS (or NEBS for that matter) allows me to judge a competition that my husband is cooking, nor would I WANT to. (I could be wrong though) Whether or not you recognize the food and then score it higher (or lower...heheh) , regardless, there are people who are always going to think that you MAY have done just that. Something like that could ruin a perfectly good call to the stage, not to mention reputation... and rumors of cheating are just as bad as cheating itself, IMO, you can deny it all day long, but people are going to think (and say) what they want. I think it is much better to cook WITH him and not to have to deal with any of that. I judge events that lunchmeat doesn't cook.

lunchlady