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slat
08-22-2006, 09:54 PM
I know most of us use the 3-2-1 method for ribs at home so we have fall off the bone ribs. What do you guys that compete do? Any method or trick you use to get the ribs KCBS style?

Thanks

nmayeux
08-22-2006, 10:34 PM
I am doing a practice cook this weekend to try to help nail down my competion ribs. At home our ribs would probably be considered way overdone and too spicy for competition. I use BBs, so the 3-2-1 method is overkill, but I need to find a system to meet KCBS guidelines and still taste good to me. At the present time, I use the looks (meat starting to pull from the bone), and feel (flexibility of the rack), to determine when I foil and when to finish. Also, I have been finishing on a hot grill to get the sauce to flash and caramelize. Did not have too much luck last weekend, although the rain really through us off...

Sawdustguy
08-22-2006, 11:05 PM
Some use the meat pulled back from the bone by a 1/2" as an indication but we grab the bottom of the rack with a set of thongs and try to stand the rack up. If they bend in a V shape without breaking away from the bone they are done.

billm
08-23-2006, 07:48 AM
I know most of us use the 3-2-1 method for ribs at home so we have fall off the bone ribs. What do you guys that compete do? Any method or trick you use to get the ribs KCBS style?

Thanks

fall off the bone is not something to strive for in competition..you want tender but not that tender..
that 3-2-1 always resulted in overdone ribs whenever I tried it

butts
08-23-2006, 08:19 AM
3-2-1 is most definately overkill for competition.

The 1/2" pull back from the bone is a good indicator. I think after a while you just tend to know. I cook St. Louis spares in competition and they normally take about 5 hours, but they have been ready as quick as three hours. Probably different from most people, I never wrap my ribs in competition. I do also finish my ribs on a hot grill for 15-30 minutes.

kcpellethead
08-23-2006, 08:40 AM
The length that ribs pull back from the end of the bones does not always indiciate their level of doneness. Often my ribs pull after only three hours in the pit, but they are not tender enough to turn in. I check my ribs by pulling the last two bones apart. If they seperate very easily they are done. The level of resistance I get when I do this will determine how much longer they need to cook.

As for competition, my ribs cook at 275 for three hours. Then I foil them to finish. Usually they cook foiled for one hour. If you over cook them to the point of falling off the bone, open up the foil and let them cool down. Usually they will firm up. Also, you can remove them from the foil and put them back on the pit to firm up.

When considering your flavor profile for KCBS competition ribs, remember that the judges are only going to take one or two bites of your rib. Give them all of the flavor in those bites. Oh, and consider sweetening your ribs up for competition. The ribs I submit for competition I would never serve my friends and family. "Eaters" are completely different than my competition stuff.

Rod

YankeeBBQ
08-23-2006, 10:02 AM
Oh, and consider sweetening your ribs up for competition. The ribs I submit for competition I would never serve my friends and family. "Eaters" are completely different than my competition stuff.

Rod

Mmmm Mmmmmm Mmmmmmmmm Candy on a bone

kcpellethead
08-23-2006, 10:20 AM
Mmmm Mmmmmm Mmmmmmmmm Candy on a bone

Like your's are any different? I've cooked with you my friend, I know your secrets. Oh, and I put as much chicken in my box as I can. Sometimes I get 8, sometimes only 6. Neither way is working for me. I don't think it's the quantity that counts . . . .

Rod

G$
08-23-2006, 10:41 AM
I know most of us use the 3-2-1 method for ribs at home so we have fall off the bone ribs. What do you guys that compete do? Any method or trick you use to get the ribs KCBS style?

Thanks

Take my limited experience with a large grain of sea salt, but ....

We actually did basically do a 3-2-1 in our last comp, and made 2nd in ribs, in a small (<20) informal field. (It was probably closer to 3-2- and then .5 back in smoke)

Here is why i think you(we) can do it:
a) we are talking trimmed spares, not babybacks
b) we run the pit pretty low (220ish)
c) the ribs will set up a little, as long as they are not falling of the bone as you cut and box them. Make sure your knife will cut, and not tear, the ribs.
d) most importantly, you are probably cooking SEVERAL (at least) racks and turning in six(ish) wopping ribs. Your ribs will probably come from the middle of one of those racks, and will be less "falling off the bone" than end ribs from the same rack. You will also be able to choose from among several racks to find the ones that are done 'just right', and since they will not all cook up the same, this should provide some variety in doneness to select from.

Again, just my opinion, what do I know?

YankeeBBQ
08-23-2006, 10:44 AM
Like your's are any different? I've cooked with you my friend, I know your secrets. Oh, and I put as much chicken in my box as I can. Sometimes I get 8, sometimes only 6. Neither way is working for me. I don't think it's the quantity that counts . . . .

Rod

I didn't say it was a bad thing. I'm thinking of cooking whole chickens this weekend. Need to practice for the big one anyway and I figure I can't do any worse than I do with the thighs. Know what I mean ?

cmcadams
08-23-2006, 12:09 PM
I try to do 3-1-whatever else is needed... but last comp, I was really tired, and let them go more like 1 1/2... still turned out good... we ended up in the top 40%... not great, but the best we've done so far in ribs.

Jeff_in_KC
08-23-2006, 12:21 PM
OK that does it! No more Slabs sauce on ribs at comps! :lol: Time to switch to Blues Hog and maybe add some extra honey! THAT ought to get them more like candy on a bone as Steve says! :wink:

butts
08-23-2006, 12:28 PM
YankeeBBQ wrote:
I'm thinking of cooking whole chickens this weekend. Need to practice for the big one anyway and I figure I can't do any worse than I do with the thighs.


I feel the same. I did whole chickens for the first time in July of this year. Placed 14 out of 41, it should have been much higher but I made some dumb mistakes on apperance. It would have been top 5 without the mistakes. I think the judges like the idea of the whole chicken vs. thighs.

cmcadams
08-23-2006, 12:36 PM
I didn't say it was a bad thing. I'm thinking of cooking whole chickens this weekend. Need to practice for the big one anyway and I figure I can't do any worse than I do with the thighs. Know what I mean ?
You could do worse... In fact, I'm willing to give you lessons so yours can suck as bad as ours!

smokincracker
08-23-2006, 01:39 PM
Take my limited experience with a large grain of sea salt, but ....

We actually did basically do a 3-2-1 in our last comp, and made 2nd in ribs, in a small (<20) informal field. (It was probably closer to 3-2- and then .5 back in smoke)

Here is why i think you(we) can do it:
a) we are talking trimmed spares, not babybacks
b) we run the pit pretty low (220ish)
c) the ribs will set up a little, as long as they are not falling of the bone as you cut and box them. Make sure your knife will cut, and not tear, the ribs.
d) most importantly, you are probably cooking SEVERAL (at least) racks and turning in six(ish) wopping ribs. Your ribs will probably come from the middle of one of those racks, and will be less "falling off the bone" than end ribs from the same rack. You will also be able to choose from among several racks to find the ones that are done 'just right', and since they will not all cook up the same, this should provide some variety in doneness to select from.

Again, just my opinion, what do I know?

It sounds like your on the money to me!
Thats how I cooked these.
They took first place.

ique
08-23-2006, 02:03 PM
I didn't say it was a bad thing. I'm thinking of cooking whole chickens this weekend. Need to practice for the big one anyway and I figure I can't do any worse than I do with the thighs. Know what I mean ?

Practice? :shock: :eusa_clap

G$
08-23-2006, 03:04 PM
It sounds like your on the money to me!
Thats how I cooked these.
They took first place.

Ha, and those look a lot like mine too, except ours are surrounded by the green stuff.......

cmcadams
08-23-2006, 03:11 PM
I've found that sometimes the very end bones actually fall out while moving the racks around, while the interior ribs are done just right. Then again, I haven't done that great yet in ribs. :) Or any other category for that matter!

j3nks73
08-23-2006, 03:23 PM
Ok I have a question.

Why would ribs for competition be any different than ribs you sevrve to family and friends?

Why not make them falling off the bone tender?

I guess anyone can cook ribs until they fall apart but it takes some skill to get them tender but not falling off the bone.

I know the competition I was in last year the rules clearly stated that the ribs should be tender but not falling off the bone.

Why is that?

MilitantSquatter
08-23-2006, 03:49 PM
Why not make them falling off the bone tender?

I guess anyone can cook ribs until they fall apart but it takes some skill to get them tender but not falling off the bone.



You answered your own question...It's also a little harder to slice ribs perfectly for presentation if they are falling off the bone..

there's no science it, just peoples opinion of what a well cooked rib should be... kind if like a steak....some like a little pink in the middle, others like it raw and others like it like the heel of a shoe...

General rule of thumb says somewhere in the middle suits more people than less.

Mod note: cleaned up the quote...

CTSmokehouse
08-23-2006, 10:01 PM
I smoke cook ribs that I really enjoy that are dry Memphis style. Our comp ribs are good but "Candy on a bone". Can you compete in the Northeast or for that matter elsewhere with ribs that are not sauced or glazed and fair well?

Thanks.

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

YankeeBBQ
08-24-2006, 05:45 AM
Can you compete in the Northeast or for that matter elsewhere with ribs that are not sauced or glazed and fair well?


No, yes, maybe
It's hard to say. But I do know that Candy on a bone does pretty good ;)

2005 Jack Daniels First Place Ribs
2006 NEBS Ribs team of the year
2006 Rhode Island 1st Place Ribs
2006 Rhode Island 1st place Country Style Ribs
2006 Peter's Pond 1st Place Ribs
2006 Lake Placid 1st Place Ribs
2006 Harpoon 1st Place Ribs
2006 NKC 2nd Place Ribs
2006 Grill Kings 2nd Place Ribs

Steve

cmcadams
08-24-2006, 05:59 AM
So Steve, do you do just lots of sweet, or do you add any heat at all, too?

YankeeBBQ
08-24-2006, 06:27 AM
A little heat is good

smokincracker
08-24-2006, 07:19 AM
No, yes, maybe
It's hard to say. But I do know that Candy on a bone does pretty good ;)

2005 Jack Daniels First Place Ribs
2006 NEBS Ribs team of the year
2006 Rhode Island 1st Place Ribs
2006 Rhode Island 1st place Country Style Ribs
2006 Peter's Pond 1st Place Ribs
2006 Lake Placid 1st Place Ribs
2006 Harpoon 1st Place Ribs
2006 NKC 2nd Place Ribs
2006 Grill Kings 2nd Place Ribs

Steve

Wow!
How did you say you cook your ribs?
That is a very impressive list.

YankeeBBQ
08-24-2006, 08:14 AM
Wow!
How did you say you cook your ribs?
That is a very impressive list.

I don't think I did .... :biggrin:

thanks

kcpellethead
08-24-2006, 10:01 AM
I think I could tell you how Steve cooks his ribs . . . .I'm a little fuzzy on the topic, but nothing a little "palm grease" won't cure right up . . . . LOL

Rod

Solidkick
08-24-2006, 12:43 PM
I think I could tell you how Steve cooks his ribs . . . .I'm a little fuzzy on the topic, but nothing a little "palm grease" won't cure right up . . . . LOL

Rod

Is Steve still turning in those cryovac-ed pre-cooked Zarda ribs?? :lol:

There's no doubt we got some serious rib cookers here on the board....proud to have you as brothers...... (I'm broke, trying the flattery route.......:wink: )

kcpellethead
08-24-2006, 05:17 PM
Lloyds precooked, presauced . . . . he's making the rest up :-)

Rod

DeanC
08-24-2006, 07:08 PM
No code talk?

Jorge
08-24-2006, 07:21 PM
Lloyds precooked, presauced . . . . he's making the rest up :-)

Rod

How many licks does it take to get to the bone on those?

YankeeBBQ
08-24-2006, 09:39 PM
How many licks does it take to get to the bone on those?
What bone ? You don't think those things are actually made from real ribs do you ?

Lobster Boy
08-25-2006, 10:35 AM
Steve,
Why not give the boys the "secret rib code?"

Wine & Swine
08-25-2006, 02:29 PM
Are you going sweet on the rub and on the sauce? Do you brine? Do you remove the silverskin before or after cooking? Give me something I can work with.

The_Kapn
08-25-2006, 04:02 PM
Are you going sweet on the rub and on the sauce? Do you brine? Do you remove the silverskin before or after cooking? Give me something I can work with.

First off--I am sure all competition cooks remove the membrane prior to cooking. Simple.

As to the rest, I am just thrilled when the top level guys here share anything I can use to get better.
I have found they will share a lot if we are just patient with them.

They could keep it all to a close or elite group, but....
I thank them.

The internet is wonderful, but getting out and cooking, learning, and listening is much more valuable.

As Rod says--"it is a process". There is no recipe or silver bullet to the Championship stage :lol:

JMHO.

TIM

Fredbird
08-25-2006, 04:21 PM
Are you going sweet on the rub and on the sauce? Do you brine? Do you remove the silverskin before or after cooking? Give me something I can work with.

I prefer sweet on the rub and in the sauce. I do not brine. Remove the silverskin before rubbing/cooking.

FatDaddy
08-26-2006, 01:52 AM
number 1 rule of the rib club.............
Dont talk about the rib club...........
On that note.
I want in lol..
My ribs come out pretty tasty, but i can never get a good glaze on them . of course i just sauce mine bout 20 min before i pull em out. they usually dont look as pretty as the ones yall posted.
should i thin out my sauce for the glaze? or do u make a glaze out of other ingreidents besides the sauce?

cmcadams
08-26-2006, 05:54 AM
Tim, you'd think it would be a no brainer to remove the membrane. However, last week in Madison, both my table and my wife's each had one entry with the membrane still on. It really hurts the old tenderness/texture score. I really got the impression some teams are there just for fun, and they don't really care that much about what they're turning in. Or maybe they just made ribs/bbq at home, and everyone told them how great it was, so they're convinced that they're going to win with that.

j3nks73
08-26-2006, 08:04 AM
Tim, you'd think it would be a no brainer to remove the membrane. However, last week in Madison, both my table and my wife's each had one entry with the membrane still on. It really hurts the old tenderness/texture score. I really got the impression some teams are there just for fun, and they don't really care that much about what they're turning in. Or maybe they just made ribs/bbq at home, and everyone told them how great it was, so they're convinced that they're going to win with that.

Gulity.

I knew I was going to win and almost finished last in my first contest.

In my defence the three "celebrity" judges new jack about ribs.

I did remove the membrane though.

Live and learn, my ribs get better every time I cook them.

Wine & Swine
08-26-2006, 11:53 AM
I always have removed the membrane but this was a big point of contention by Jack McDavid in Will's rib demo last weekend. His two reasons against were it helps hold the rack together (not sure about that) and that it is much easiers to remove after cooking.

tony76248
12-05-2006, 01:22 AM
Great thread!

jminion
12-05-2006, 09:00 AM
number 1 rule of the rib club.............
Dont talk about the rib club...........
On that note.
I want in lol..
My ribs come out pretty tasty, but i can never get a good glaze on them . of course i just sauce mine bout 20 min before i pull em out. they usually dont look as pretty as the ones yall posted.
should i thin out my sauce for the glaze? or do u make a glaze out of other ingreidents besides the sauce?

My sauce is doctored, add butter for shine, could add honey for sweet but what you add is dictated by your rub.

ique
12-05-2006, 09:21 AM
I always have removed the membrane but this was a big point of contention by Jack McDavid in Will's rib demo last weekend. His two reasons against were it helps hold the rack together (not sure about that) and that it is much easiers to remove after cooking.


Well it depends on the purpose of the ribs. For competition, not removing the membrane until the end because its 'easier' does not sound like a good idea. I'm also thinking that one would be peeling off smoke, spice and bastes instead of infusing the meat with these flavors.

brian j
12-05-2006, 10:10 AM
I always have removed the membrane but this was a big point of contention by Jack McDavid in Will's rib demo last weekend. His two reasons against were it helps hold the rack together (not sure about that) and that it is much easiers to remove after cooking.
maybe that's why he didn't get past round 1 in the bbq championship series. :shock:

joking....

Nitrofly
12-05-2006, 10:32 AM
Practice? :shock: :eusa_clap


There is no way in hell you will convince me that you don't practice..
makes us pratice even harder. Better to burn a practice meat then
competition meat.

Nitrofly
12-05-2006, 10:37 AM
No, yes, maybe
It's hard to say. But I do know that Candy on a bone does pretty good ;)

2005 Jack Daniels First Place Ribs
2006 NEBS Ribs team of the year
2006 Rhode Island 1st Place Ribs
2006 Rhode Island 1st place Country Style Ribs
2006 Peter's Pond 1st Place Ribs
2006 Lake Placid 1st Place Ribs
2006 Harpoon 1st Place Ribs
2006 NKC 2nd Place Ribs
2006 Grill Kings 2nd Place Ribs

Steve

I am humble in your presence Oh rib master...
Will never even question the power of Rib Candy
never did find that winning Rib recipe in any of those
Yankee swap packages.. mmmm
That's just 'OK' with me..

ique
12-05-2006, 11:12 AM
There is no way in hell you will convince me that you don't practice..
makes us pratice even harder. Better to burn a practice meat then
competition meat.

Oh, I practice. I cooked white meat chicken twice a week for the month or so leading up to the Jack.

I was actually responding to Steve's comment, he has always claimed to me that he never practices.

ique
12-05-2006, 11:13 AM
I am humble in your presence Oh rib master...
Will never even question the power of Rib Candy
never did find that winning Rib recipe in any of those
Yankee swap packages.. mmmm
That's just 'OK' with me..

Maybe I should inspect my Yankee Swap 'present' a bit closer.

YankeeBBQ
12-05-2006, 11:32 AM
Maybe I should inspect my Yankee Swap 'present' a bit closer.

Perhaps you should contact a tibetan sign language expert

YankeeBBQ
12-05-2006, 11:34 AM
Oh, I practice. I cooked white meat chicken twice a week for the month or so leading up to the Jack.

I was actually responding to Steve's comment, he has always claimed to me that he never practices.

As a rule I don't normally. Once in a great great while I'll try something at home. It's much more likely we'll try it at a comp first.

Bigmista
12-05-2006, 11:58 AM
As a rule I don't normally. Once in a great great while I'll try something at home. It's much more likely we'll try it at a comp first.

Sounds like a hustle to me. "I never shot pool before. It must be beginner's luck..."

bbqbull
12-05-2006, 12:14 PM
Some use the meat pulled back from the bone by a 1/2" as an indication but we grab the bottom of the rack with a set of thongs and try to stand the rack up. If they bend in a V shape without breaking away from the bone they are done.

Pass it along, Sawdustguy uses his thongs to check his meat!:eek:

I use tongs to check my ribs.

Mike