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BrooklynQ
07-17-2006, 02:33 PM
With all that went down at GrillKings this year, I have to ask. Will you go back to Grill Kings next year?

YankeeBBQ
07-17-2006, 02:49 PM
Instead of just trashing the event why don't you guys discuss how you can help make it better ? Maybe that's not possible, I don't know this was my first year attending. Have there always been problems there ? There aren't many bbq event in NY and it seems to me it would be a bad thing to make one go away. Just a thought.

Steve

backyardchef
07-17-2006, 03:03 PM
Steve--

I agree that it shouldn't just be bashed and our area needs all the contests and support it can get and I just posted elsewhere about that.

I don't think they set out to run a bad contest, and it sounds like several things conspired against them-- including the weather which always makes people crankier. I would love to hear the organizers' perspective on what was happening. It seems like a high profile contest (for our area, at least) going down so badly is bad for competition bbq and the growth of the sport in our area, in general, but it also doesn't sound like much outreach was done for the competitors.

I wasn't at the contest, so all of this can be taken with a grain of salt or ignored, but it was expensive to sign-up, the vendors and teams spent alot of money, there was lack of, or miscommunication about entry fees/guest list, timing of awards etc...

They promoted the heck out of this contest (and I helped!) and I don't know where the # 100 teams came from, or the expected attendance and would hope the organizers will get out there and explain what happened. You're right about being constructive, but they haven't asked anyone's opinion, yet. If they express interest in getting the opinions of people that cooked there on how to make it better, I'm sure they'll get it....then again, it's not that hard to understand why people feel burned (literally)....

BrooklynQ
07-17-2006, 03:12 PM
Steve

I'm not "just trashing" this event. Believe me I want to see BBQ in NY become a big thing. I really want Grill Kings to succeed. I don't want to see it go away.

Before the event, I publicized this event in the NY Daily News. I've talked it up with reporters from Newsday and the New York times. I cooked with Phil in Dean's parking lot for some Cablevision spot publicizing the event.

Two days before the event, at our expense, Matt and I drove down to Delaware for a cable news show to promote the event. I've posted about it numerous times on my blog. I've actively recruited teams to participate. I've recruited judges to attend. I cooked with Phil for the judging class this year and helped Will put the food out at last year's class.

I've done a whole lot to make Grill Kings a success.

But - this event was totally miss-managed. Each Grill Kings event seems to have problems, as all events do, but I've never felt as abused after an event as I have this time.

You can't tell me that Dean didn't notice that the water tank that was supposed to last 24 hours was 3/4 empty by 3:00 on the first day. When it was empty, would it have hurt him to go around to each team and explain the situation? Or when the truck failed to show up to refill it?

What do I say when I'm asked by other teams "Should I do Guitarbeque or Grill Kings?" The teams need to know what the events are like. They need to know which ones are well run and which events value their participation.

Every year this event grows and every year so do the problems. To me, it's reached the breaking point. Either Dean gets out and fixes them, hires another coordinator or ends it.

Whatever Dean chooses, he needs to know what the BBQ community is thinking.

Pig Headed
07-17-2006, 04:16 PM
Hey Robert,

Sorry to hear about all the problems with Grill Kings. It sound like the same promoter in Maryland last year who charged vendors 25% of proceeds and sold bbq bucks and $5 entrance fee. I spoke with some of the few teams that were there and others that did not attend. Many teams won't enter one of his comps because of exactly what you're describing. By the way, where in Delaware did you go to promote it? (Comcast?) If I had known you were going to be in the area, I would have extended an invite for some grub and drinks.



Ron

BrooklynQ
07-17-2006, 04:26 PM
Ron - we were on Your Morning on CN8 for comcast. It was a blast!

BBQchef33
07-17-2006, 04:52 PM
Deleted due to lack of enthusiam and obviously poorly worded. Saving place holder for better worded post when brain is alive.. .

Al Dente
07-17-2006, 06:10 PM
The way it stands now, with the same people in charge, I will not be back. Every year there seems to be chaos of some form or another to deal with. If it's one or two small issues, hey stuff happens, but when it's major things, year after year WTF!!!!!

Last year's contest almost didn't go off because of once again, lack of communication. Hecksher State Park stopped us and Willie B from setting up on the parking lot. The Park official wanted us under the canopy of trees in the picnic area and not in the parking lot. One hour later (Down Time), we were able to set up. Then the water source was tiny hand sinks in the bathrooms. No hose, no water.

This year was by far worse. It seems that they had delusions of grandeur and got caught up in their fantasies. I was very happy when the NYC/LI area finally got a local contest, but not with all the drama. I'd love to see it continue and thrive, but the way it's being run, I can't support it. To not go team by team and explain the water situation, then to be hiding in your RV while everyone else is in their own version of survivor shows a lack of character. We resorted to using bottled water, as everyone else did.

All the best, Al.


}}}}------------------------------------------>

Solidkick
07-17-2006, 06:17 PM
Question for Steve of Yankee BBQ........

You cooked with Rod, Rod is on the KCBS board....what was Rod's opinions on the contest and how it was run?

YankeeBBQ
07-17-2006, 06:50 PM
I can't speak for Rod. We haven't even had a chance to talk about it really. He's still in the process of getting home from the contest.

There were definately major issues. I suffered them along with every other team. There seemed to be a major lack of communication between the organizer and the reps and between the reps and the teams.

My only question is.... Can it be fixed ?

Again this was my first year at the contest so I wasn't aware of past problems with the organizer. If he's not willing to to improve the contest then I don't blame anyone for not going back. I would like to hear from him and get his feel on how he thought the event turned out.

backyardchef
07-17-2006, 06:59 PM
From what I've seen and heard, the organizers have good ideas and have been able to get ALOT done. The fact that there is a state championship, KCBS sanctioned contest on Lawnguyland at all deserves major kudos, but maybe someone with a little more experience in running the contest part and dealing with the teams can be integrated into the Grill Kings team...(?)

They've gotten great sponsors and support from the community of local bbq'ers. I know there are hurt feelings for alot of reasons, but I don't think you can throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't think the contest should go, but after 4 years, it's pretty clear that something HAS to be done for this contest to grow, PROSPER and become a true major national draw for teams.

barfly
07-17-2006, 07:18 PM
With all that went down at GrillKings this year, I have to ask. Will you go back to Grill Kings next year?

I don't know.. I was pretty steamed with that no one gets out before 6 bs.. the combination of the hot sun, no sleep and whatnot made Chris a grouchy puppy. I'll probably just leave it up to Will...

MilitantSquatter
07-17-2006, 08:03 PM
There have been very good and bad reasons to go back from many of the above posts. I'd go back when all is said and done.

Here's what sucked:

1) the Asian health inspector (we aptly named Some Dum Guy, not PC, I know but he really ticked me off) for asking us about a handwashing station that no one told me about. When Grill Kings called I said I had one, thought they referred to the 3 wash bins. He asked the same question 5 ways to get us to say something wrong. We finally asked him if there was anything else or otherwise we have to get started grilling the first day event. He was standing around not doing anything.

2) not being able to know how we placed in the grilling event until they post it online at some point this week (hopefully)

1) Not getting the Pure Fire crappy charcoal until less than 2 hrs before turn in time. I wasted $50 entry and $25 on meat to use chitty charcoal that did not burn.
2) Water container only having one hose. Long lines due to low output.
3) No ability to know when any meeting was, when awards were
4) The band on day two thinking they were the best thing since Led Zepplin playing for hours
5) No gargabe box in front of site
6) Not allowing cars to come in after 70% of teams got there cars in
7) Security Guards who thought they were King Chits then apologized to my father in law who is a NYPD chief. Many were retired and off duty cops doing side work. They saw him at the end of the event as we were packing up.
8) Going to claim my 5th place prize after getting the check and medal only for Dean to advise they made an error that prizes only go to 4th place.
9) If rumors are true that BBQ Bucks were not the same as Day 1 as on Day 2, that officially blows and it a total scam. My wife did not have that problem from what she recalls as the still had $5 left from yesterday with Willie B's mugshot on it.

Here's why I liked it

1) First contest
2) Ton's of my favorite Brethren to hang with
3) Not one patron intruded on our site and all were easy going
4) Too close to home to not do again


Yes the location was a glorified parking lot that you heard the speeding cars of the Cross Island Pkwy and Hemp Tpke all night, but it was passable although not pretty. All my family, friends and co-workers enjoyed it. Did not have a problem going across the street to the racetrack to watch the races etc. Food prices were high, but they expected it as they would expect at any similar type event.

I may feel differently after I get over my 5th place Pork finish and we do New Holland and Hudson Valley. I can only compare it to Bristol right now and Bristol was a much better event overall. Just friendlier and better managed.

Cue's Your Daddy
07-18-2006, 07:19 AM
Not sticking up for Dean, because everything that you guys are saying is true, but the water situation was Belmont parks fault. They told Dean they were going to refill the water tank by 5:30 Saturday night. They eventually told him that they tried to fill it up around 4 pm, but there were to many people . This was around 8:30 pm on Saturday. Does anyone remeber a water truck driving by, kind of hard to miss, but i dont. Thanks to Willy B, I did find a good use for the Purefire Charcoal, I used it to light my wood in my smoker. I totally agree that the awards ceremony was horrible. Finally got called up with a 4th in ribs, and my wife almost missed it trying to get the car in past security. But, all in all, had a great time, always good to hang with Will and Chris,the grillbillies, Burkes Blazin, and my Dad and Brothers. I know i will be back next year no matter how much it sucked, because of all the fun we have.

Jorge
07-18-2006, 08:15 AM
. Does anyone remeber a water truck driving by, kind of hard to miss, but i dont.

No. We were right across from Willy B and looking for that truck to come through the gate and never seaw or heard it. We were pretty busy so it's possible we could have missed it, but not likely.

Sledneck
07-18-2006, 08:17 AM
Lies lies all lies!:biggrin:

I hope none of the teams come back! (then maybe i can win something)

Cue's Your Daddy
07-18-2006, 10:28 AM
unless the water truck was like wonder womens jet.

kcpellethead
07-18-2006, 11:46 AM
I had plenty of time on the plane yesterday to think about this, and here are my thoughts on the event. If they drastically improved the water situation, had the awards on time, and worked harder to communicate, this would be a much improved event. I've cooked worse events by far. As for the grilling event, I don't know much about what went on as we didn't cook it.

The water is a very, very simple fix. Get a tank twice as large for 40 teams, or get two of them. Done. Fixed. If you get more teams next year, do the math and get the appropriate amount of water. Learning from your mistakes makes everyone better the next time around.

Create a schedule that works. The event ended at 6:00PM. If they wanted us to stay until then, they could have scheduled the awards for then. I understand the liability of allowing people to drive their vehicles into the contest site where spectators are roaming around looking down at a paper tray full of barbecue and not paying attention. Telling us they are at 4:30PM and then hiding until after 5:30PM is not acceptable. Using the excuse that they had to assemble the prize packages is not good enough either. Why wasn't this done on the morning of the event when everyone had more time? Another simple fix.

Finally, in theory it's easy to fix the communication issues. If you spoke with the organizer, I'd bet he'd say he thought he did a great job of communication. In fact, it was not a great job, but that's an easy fix too. If you're not a good communicator, find someone who is and ask them to help out. Anyone can give out good news. Some folks don't do well giving bad news. Nineteen out of 20 times, bad news is better than no news. Easy peasy!

This was not a bad contest. There were some things that could have been improved, and without much additional effort. When you decide to enter next year, call the organizer and ask him if the issues of the previous year have been remedied. Be specific with your questions. If you don't like the answers, don't send in your entry. If you get there and the issues aren't fixed, don't support the event the following year. Too many years of bad events will kill the thing on it's own, but let's hope this doesn't happen because New York can use more contests!

Rod

Solidkick
07-18-2006, 12:43 PM
There's your answer boys.....the man cooks 20-30 events a year for X number of years, he's seen the best, he's seen the worst....it sounds like it can be salvaged.......

Thanks Rod!

WannaBeBBQueen
07-18-2006, 01:45 PM
I wasn't there this year, but Rod's right, they need to fix this. NY can't afford to lose this event.

Smoker
07-18-2006, 02:19 PM
"This was not a bad contest"

Um...yes it was, Plain and Simple.

There was NO communication to the teams about anything. You were on your own. It would not have mattered if there was a million gallons in that water tank because there was only 1 #@$%&$ hose that dripped 2 gallons a minute. 40+ teams and 1 hose. Sorry, the detainees in gitmo are treated better. The vendors won't be back, many teams won't be back and the public never showed up.

I will never spend another summer weekend in a parking lot. Long Island has so many beautiful places that this could be held at. There was no reason for the public to drive out to a parking lot and STAND in the heat to listen to a band. It is time for this event to be buried and a new charity event take its place. I'm sure a place can be found where there is grass and trees. People will come out and support the event and buy BBQ for a good cause.

I want to cook at the annual L.I. Cure for Cancer Charity BBQ Championship or the annual L.I. Special Olympics BBQ Championship.

smokeeater
07-18-2006, 02:35 PM
Smoker, I got to words for you my friend... Here, Here
I think that is a great idea.

backyardchef
07-18-2006, 02:39 PM
I'll second that.....

Al Dente
07-18-2006, 02:41 PM
I had a few small banners and a bucket to contribute to "Q for the Cure". My Mother-in-law passed from breast and brain cancer 8 years ago. Since then, my Wife has been involved every year with the Walk. We riased 120 bucks to be given in with the Walk money. sounds like a great idea. All the best, Al.

}}}}----------------------------------->

Sledneck
07-18-2006, 05:03 PM
[quote=Smoker
I want to cook at the annual L.I. Cure for Cancer Charity BBQ Championship or the annual L.I. Special Olympics BBQ Championship.[/quote]

I love it!!! I would definately be willing to help. Whos in? Lets do it

WannaBeBBQueen
07-18-2006, 05:45 PM
When is it? I usually do the walk, but I would gladly BBQ instead or do both :)I love it!!! I would definately be willing to help. Whos in? Lets do it

backyardchef
07-18-2006, 05:48 PM
I volunteer to help put something together without any hesitation. Ever since my mom was diagnosed, I've been looking for ways to 'give back' and this sounds like another perfect way to do it.....Anyone else?

WannaBeBBQueen
07-18-2006, 05:49 PM
Hey, if anyone need help just let me know, I'd gladly give a hand.

Jorge
07-18-2006, 06:17 PM
24 hrs. out and I've stopped steaming, in more ways than one. Long Island heat, humidity, and asphalt combined are tough!:cool:

There was plenty that was unacceptable. I've read the issues raised here, and elsewhere. Water, communication or lack thereof.

I think the issues are out now. The question becomes what to do about it. Let the event die, or offer some additional constructive criticism for a future event. As a group Brethren affiliated teams composed about 25% of the field. Speaking as a group you/we have a substantial voice.

My suggestions are pretty simple:

1)More water and a more realistic manner for teams to acquire it. One garden hose for 40+ teams doesn't cut it. The tank on site would have been fine had it been refilled and there had been multiple sources from teams to draw from.

2)Communication. Have a staffer/volunteer to pass info to the teams. Not sure where the water truck is? Let the teams know. Make someone available as a point of contact for issues that come up.

Give it a shot, see what happens, and verify before stroking that check for entry fee next year. You local Long Island guys aren't likely to find another event that close.

Sawdustguy
07-18-2006, 09:26 PM
24 hrs. out and I've stopped steaming, in more ways than one. Long Island heat, humidity, and asphalt combined are tough!:cool:

There was plenty that was unacceptable. I've read the issues raised here, and elsewhere. Water, communication or lack thereof.

I think the issues are out now. The question becomes what to do about it. Let the event die, or offer some additional constructive criticism for a future event. As a group Brethren affiliated teams composed about 25% of the field. Speaking as a group you/we have a substantial voice.

My suggestions are pretty simple:

1)More water and a more realistic manner for teams to acquire it. One garden hose for 40+ teams doesn't cut it. The tank on site would have been fine had it been refilled and there had been multiple sources from teams to draw from.

2)Communication. Have a staffer/volunteer to pass info to the teams. Not sure where the water truck is? Let the teams know. Make someone available as a point of contact for issues that come up.

Give it a shot, see what happens, and verify before stroking that check for entry fee next year. You local Long Island guys aren't likely to find another event that close.

Jorge,

The only thing that tweeks me is that we paid a $300 entry for all this miscommunication.

mfalco
07-18-2006, 09:47 PM
I know this was not run well, but you make it work as best you can. I've never been to an event that was run with military precision - they all have their issues. I agree with Rod and some others that have voiced their opinions here, but we have an event in our backyards - we owe it to ourselves and other competitors to not let this die on the vine.

Hopefully Dean and the others who run Grill Kings are listening - will make fixes and we can all have an even we are proud of. We shouldn't have to travel 5 hours to attend a decent event.

Just my 2 cents

ique
07-19-2006, 08:02 AM
For me it comes down to one issue, the venue. I'm sure the NY Brethren will work with GK organizers to fix issues such as water.

But, the public has no interest in spending time in a hot parking lot and neither do I.

If the venue is changed to a locale with grass and trees I'll be back. If its in the same parking lot I will not.

BBQchef33
07-19-2006, 08:08 AM
Well..

I've been sittin and listening.. and i agree with yankeebbq, rod, and chris and any of you that think we can or should try to fix this. I was there too, I have my own gripes, same ones as you... I know there were issues, know the heat added to it and theres stuff that needs to be repaired. I invested over a grand in that contest between signup costs, meats, supplies, etc.. and did it suck, yeah. Did anyone die no. Do I want it to sink like the farkin titanic? Go away, get replaced.. NO.. NO and NO. I am going to be part of the solution, not part of the problem, aand I hope alot of you choose to join that mindset.. If you dont, then just get out of our way.

I am not going to give up that easy. For those that are willing to give up on a NY championship event in our own backyard, fine, enjoy the 5 hr ride to Highland. My only motive is to be able the enjoy a contest without having to drive for hours, and be able to have my friends and neighbors come by and see what we do. I am more willing to work to fix this one as opposed to let it die. At least I can then say I tried to keep the momentum going. We need all the help we can get when it comes to BBQ contests. As it stands there are only 3 local ones....

I reserved 10 spots months ago for our teams. At least our being together added to some of the fun and made stuff a little less painfull. For next year, I'd like to see the block party(thanks sawdust )grow... I learned this year that that needs to be organized better so we can have a "brethren dinner" under a central tent and not just a free for all the way it was. That will be handled thru the roll call as it was this year, but its not going to happen if the contest goes under.

I asked several people to post their experiences here so i have a record of issues. i will compile all the issues and I'm going to work with Grillkings and do my best to make the event team friendly. I know what we need, Grillkings only thinks they know. For those that disagree with my trying to help, keep it to yourself. I'm taking all the issues to Grillkings and going to work thru them. If they accept, great we will have a better event next year. If I am snubbed, which I doubt wil happen, then at least we tried. I will arrange a meeting with grillkings. Anyone that has offered to help, or would be interested in doing so, PM me and you will be welcome to join us.

Jeff_in_KC
07-19-2006, 08:18 AM
Phil, I obviously don't compete in the northeast but even so, I applaud your efforts! Good luck!

drumfreak
07-19-2006, 09:34 AM
Sounds like a great plan. I support you and appreciate your efforts. I am pretty sure Dean will come to his senses. Have him log on and look at all the gripes on the forum. If he wants it to be successful the next time around and wants the number of teams that participate to increase, he will have no choice but to address most of these issues and change his perspective from making it's main focus a "Grill Kings Inc" event to keeping the teams, customers, and vendors happy. Don't get me wrong...its a tough job to coordinate all of this but in the end if you change your priorities from $$$ to taking care of the people....things will work out. There are always going to be some kind of problems. There are a lot of variables that are out of his direct control. Things should only get better moving forward.

Mrs. Sawdust
07-19-2006, 10:20 AM
Phil,

You had me at "Well". I don't want the Grill Kings go away. The big guy and I will help you fix it if we can. We really had a great time in spite of the contest. I really enjoyed meeting all the guys that Guy talks about regularly. It felt more like a family gathering than a contest. I think a Brethren Dinner is a wonderful idea and I would help you with that if you wish. I think the big man feels the same.

BrooklynQ
07-19-2006, 11:15 AM
I wish you luck with it Phil. A Long Island contest is a great idea, two would be even better. Competition is always a good thing.

Al Dente
07-19-2006, 03:18 PM
I agree that this event SHOULD continue, but only after all of the problems cited here are addressed and recitified. The teams, the vendors, and the general public need to be happy for this to be a success. Problems occur and chit happens, but not to the extent that we were subjected to. It's a great NY event, and I was so thrilled when we finally had a local contest. Meeting new friends and joining in the with BBQ fraternity was awesome. I love the camraderie that goes on, and the giving just doesn't stop.

All the best, Al.

}}}}----------------------------------->

MilitantSquatter
07-19-2006, 06:59 PM
Poob,

Your planned course of action is definitely worthwhile and I am more than willing to help with any input as needed. Although you're the Poob of the Brethren , you shouldn't have to take it upon yourself to do all the legwork to fix it. Obviously, you have some pull but the rest of us can pull some of the weight too.

There is no way I want a contest so close with so much potential to go away. Despite the problems, The pros outweighed the cons for us. The problems are all fixable.

Keep us posted as you deem any help is needed. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea if some of us got together as a group to talk things over and possibly invite Dean so it's more of an open session so he can hear ideas from others and maybe feed off each other. Hearing his side of things may do everyone some good if he's open to letting us see things from his perspective. As long as the goal is to be positive and forward looking.

I've done a lot of college study and internships in stadium/arena/facilities management while in college. I spent a lot of time with the the PR and facilities depts with the NY Mets @ Shea Stadium as well as many large events at Hofstra (like the Westminster Dog Shows and NY Jets training camps and sporting events) as well as many events @ St. John's U. campuses. I've seen even big places like these have disaster events due to poor planning and lack of communication. But they were always fixable.

There's a whole year to get things right and we're all here to help. Just ask if you find out anything.







I

Sledneck
07-20-2006, 04:30 AM
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Germans?
Forget it, he's rolling.
And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough... ..........the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go! [runs out, alone; then returns]

What the **** happened to the Brethren I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Sledneck, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this.

Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.

We're just the guys to do it.
Let's do it.

LET'S DO IT!!

BBQchef33
07-20-2006, 07:47 AM
I wish you luck with it Phil. A Long Island contest is a great idea, two would be even better. Competition is always a good thing.

Rob, I am embarrassed to have you as a team mate, and more so to call u a member of this group. How much did YOU invest in this contest? None! Zero, not a dime. In fact you charged me for the kitchen bouquet and a 10$ thermometer!

ALL YOU ARE DOING IS KILLING THE CONTEST AND COMPLAINING. You have no right to gripe about it. All u did all weekend was wander off and self promote while the rest of us worked.

Go find another team.

Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Germans?
Forget it, he's rolling.
And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough... ..........the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go! [runs out, alone; then returns]

What the **** happened to the Brethren I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Sledneck, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this.

Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.

We're just the guys to do it.
Let's do it.

LET'S DO IT!!


hmmm

steve?

The medication is on the top right of the cabinet.

:mrgreen:

Smoker
07-20-2006, 08:14 AM
Phil,

Maybe it wasn't a tonsillectomy, but a lobotomy.


Just RIBin ya steve.

WannaBeBBQueen
07-20-2006, 08:16 AM
I think he needs a double dose...lolhmmm

steve?

The medication is on the top right of the cabinet.

:mrgreen:

rookiedad
07-20-2006, 10:32 AM
i don't want to see grill kings end either. i haven't got a chance to participate in it yet! these are some of my suggestions.
1) we could offer up a non competing commitee comprised of about five or ten friends and relatives of team members to aid in organization, communication and scheduling of meetings and inspections and such.
2) we could try to suggest that the event be moved from a parking lot to a field where another event is taking place so that vendors and media will be attracted by crossover attendees. bradstock or the blues festival in riverhead come to mind as suggestions. or maybe make it a beach type of thing at robert moses or at a beach club on dune road.
3) maybe we could try running a competition of our own. not to try to replace grill kings, but with the idea that having two on long island per season would make both well organized, well attended and heavily participated in events.
just my suggestions.

phil

The_Kapn
12-12-2006, 04:44 PM
Here to defuse till Phil gets a chance at this.

My public post is:
http://bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22547 (http://bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22547)

TIM