I may be in Deep Brisket Bandini !! .....

[Q_Egg]

..... 1) still early in my Q progress I am pumped up after reading the brisket posts here and got my local butcher to pull out the largest whole brisket he had. Today I got a 14.34 lb whole brisket, which he was very proud of, and he noted that flat was quite thick and the point not so notably thicker so the cooking time differential should not be so great. I hope that is a valid issue as you Brethren see it!

2) Old dumb-farker Tom (me) was so pleased that he didn't notice that the brisket is 22 inches long and my Big Green Egg only has an 18-inch diameter cooking grate. Since this is a low-and-slow cook, I'm feeling that I should fold the extra (thinnest) portion over 'on top' of the flat and hope for some shrinkage so I can straighten it out later. ....seem reasonable?

3) I'm planning to trim the fat side leaving only 1/2 inch, rub only the meaty portion of that side, trim the fat off of the lean side and rub it thoroughly, double-wrap and refrigerate for a day. My plan is to rub with mustard just before the cook. I'm using John Henry's Texas Brisket Rub (salt-based). .... OK so far??

4) At low 200*sF. cooking temp, I'm expecting as high as 20+ hours total. (1.5 hours per pound).

5) Per posts here, I'm either going to pull the brisket when the flat hits 190*F, foil the flat and return it 'til the point finishes ... OR .... cut off the flat, knock off the bark from the point, re-season/rub it, and return to the cooker.

6) Between now and the end of the cook, I need to learn more about 'burnt ends'.

If this is a disaster, I'm headed over to Home Depot to see if they still have my 'returned' Bandera for possible repurchase!

Thoughts?

[jgh1204]

I have never heard anyone complain about their Egg. To bad you could'nt find a big brisket. :biggrin: (see my other thread).

[Kevin]

You're lookin just fine so far Q. Bend me, shape me, any way you want me, as long as you love me, that's alright. OK, back to reality, fold it, drape it over a SS bowl or rib rack. They all work. It WILL shrink.

[The_Kapn]

Tommy- this will be an "adventure" for sure :lol:

No problem with folding the end of the point under or over till it shrinks. I do it all the time. Also, I may trim off a couple of inches and cook it beside the main chunk. Cooks up fast and makes a great "Chef's snack" :lol:

If you cook at or near 200, and want to get to 190 + meat temp--.......:!:
Gonna be a long, long, time. Some folks call that "low and slow", some call it "warming it to death" :lol:
Kick that heat up to the mid 200's and let the brisket cook in less than a week :lol: 235-250-270 is still "low and slow" and the brisket (and you) will be out of your misery a lot sooner.
It can be cooked as high as the low to mid 300s so don't worry!!!!! Not suggesting that for you--just a fact that temps are not near as critical as some folks stress over :lol:
Try mid 200's--works wonderful!

Soaking in rub is a matter of prefence. If you have it rubbed, that is it. Goes to the smoker. Adding mustard later would call for more rub. Is that what you meant, or did I read you wrong?

Gonna be fun.
Relax and enjoy!

TIM

[jgh1204]

I agree with Kapn, 200 is too low, go with 240 or so.

[Ron_L]

Tom... I've folded the thin end of a brisket to get it to fit into my WSM. It generally stays folded, but it cooked OK. The other thing you can do is lay it over a stainless bowl or a rib rack. I rub the whole brisket, indluding the fat cap. i don't know if it makes a difference, but that's what I do. As far as cook time, mine generally run 1.5 hours per pound, but at 225, not 200. YMMV.

[Q_Egg]

.... will plan to crank up the temp a bit, (I really like the SS bowl or rack idea!), and plan to either skip the mustard or plan to add more rub.

Thanks men .... I really do feel more confident and optimistic!

Regards,

[thirdeye]

Hey Tom,

1) Briskets all cook differently. Each one is a little adventure. Just let it cook itself tender and you'll be a Brisketeer before you know it.

2) Don't worry about the length. If you have a V rack or rib rack, put it in and drape the brisket over it. In three or 4 hrs it will shrink enough that you can remove the rack. If you dont have a rack, drape it over an empty upright beer can or two.

3) The no sugar brisket rubs are my favorite, and I'm ok with a little slather with mustard too!

4) Like Tim said, bump up your temp.

5) Sounds like a plan IF it passes the tenderness test. Love some burnt ends on the plate.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbeque/cd4733e3.jpg

Let us know how it turns out.

[Q_Egg]

..... I much appreciate your thoughts from a familiar perspective. It's also great to hear the broader view from the Brethren .... so much help available here!

Best ....

[The_Kapn]

One final thought before you launch this adventure!
Consider forgetting "Burnt ends" on your first brisket cook.
They are wonderful. I love them.
But, I suggest that, for now, you consider them an "advanced project" for later. :lol:

If you will just focus on quality flat and point, you will be amazed at the results!
Take the whole Brisket to 195 or so and a "buttery" probe doneness state.
Dry cooler or lay heavily wrapped on table for an hour or two.
Remove the point and chop it. Slice the flat. Pour some of the cooking juice back into and on it for added moistness and flavor.

Enjoy the heck out of your first wonderful Brisket :lol:

To me--1st cook needs to stay KISS :lol:
Burnt Ends are just more things to fuss with and can be added to your skill set later,

Just a thought.

TIM

[Q_Egg]

..... comment about the 'close' relative thickness of flat and point will help me avoid overcooking the flat (won't it?). I think this is a good plan!

[jgh1204]

my wife prefers the point and would probably kill me if I made burnt ends out of it.

[Brauma]

I still cant believe you took back a used BSKD to HD and they actually gave you a refund. That took balls. You da man. If it were me they would have laughed me out of the door and still be laughing to this day. Good luck with the Egg.

[Q_Egg]

.... your posts on my earlier thread have made me pretty comfortable with my brisket (14lb) cook tomorrow. It is now in the fridge, trimmed, rubbed and wrapped. I am wrestling with one final issue. I can follow thru as advised and drape the 22-inch whole brisket over a stout rib rack and it will just fit my 18-inch diameter cooking grate. Since I also have a 'grate extender' which is like another grate with adjustable legs, I could also separate the point and flat, placing the point just a coujple of inches directly above the flat. With the dome top, it should be just slightly hotter but would also drip juices/fat down on the flat before they fall to the drip pan.

What are the 'critical' reasons why I would choose one set-up ove the other for this low-and-slow cook?

[tommykendall]

Don't separate them. I once draped a 18.75#'r over a large can to fit in the 'dera.

[MilitantSquatter]

Hey Tommy,

Why would you want to separate ? Just so the the point can drip fat onto the flat ?

I say go for the gusto and cook it whole...let the fat layer in between do the work...

I think you'll get more satisfaction out of knowing you cooked the whole brisket or learning from the experience.

Whatever you decide will be what is the right thing for you to do..

Good Luck and let us know how it turns out !!!

[Q_Egg]

.... I now have time to complete the 'draped brisket' set-up and get ready for an early morning start.

It's nice to have this dilemma out of the way.

[JamesB]

Go ahead and seperate it if you want. Will not hurt a thing. I often will remove the point when the flat is done and return it to the smoker to continue to render... The fat dripping on te flat can't hurt either IMO...

James.

[thirdeye]

Tom, Leave it whole........If you want to do some kind of auto-basting, dash down to Safeway and pick up one these on sale. It would be a great over/under cook. I'm gettin ready to pull one right now. The foodsaver is on stand-by.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/BDS/19b2bcce.jpg

[BBQchef33]

i never seperate em, and flop them over a rib rack to help them fit.. the rib rack doesnt interfere with air/heat flow under the meat.

[Q_Egg]

... is there a reason to (or not to) use it (upside down) as a heat buffer below the grate/drip-pan/rib rack/brisket ?? It will raise my grate ~2 inches above the fire ring, but that seems like a positive thing. Right now, I would be hanging a drip pan from the cooking grate just to act as a heat buffer from the charcoal/wood.

[Q_Egg]

..... this is going to be a great day (but a long one). If I'm eating warm brisket around 8, or 9, or 10 tomoroow night, there's no way I'm going to get any sleep! ..... buurrp!

[The_Kapn]

Tommy--drap it, fold it, or trim it as you see fit.
They will all work.

May I suggest--You have started an excellent thread allready about this adventure.
If you will just continue with one thread (this one will work fine) --you will get more consistant advice :lol:
What happens is this. New folks drop in, see the thread, do not realize all the work you have allready put into your decisions, and then they confuse the hell out of the whole process :twisted:

Just an idea--one thread works so much better that several if you want consistant advice--OK?

TIM

[Q_Egg]

... about the Thread getting too long. Next time for sure ....

[qman]

Tommy--drap it, fold it, or trim it as you see fit.
They will all work.

May I suggest--You have started an excellent thread allready about this adventure.
If you will just continue with one thread (this one will work fine) --you will get more consistant advice :lol:
What happens is this. New folks drop in, see the thread, do not realize all the work you have allready put into your decisions, and then they confuse the hell out of the whole process :twisted:

Just an idea--one thread works so much better that several if you want consistant advice--OK?

TIM
Roger that, us old folk have trouble keeping up, you know:grin:

[Q_Egg]

..... foil around the pan of course. Basic position will put this pan about 5-inches above the fire. My alternate position will raise it to 9-inches. In both cases, the dome is fixed, so the brisket stays further from (or closer to) the dome ... and stack opening. For you Brethren using domed smokers, is 5-inches too close for the pan bottom to be ....to the low-and-slow fire? If so, I will have to hang another drip pan under this grate for a buffer.

[thirdeye]

... is there a reason to (or not to) use it (upside down) as a heat buffer below the grate/drip-pan/rib rack/brisket ?? It will raise my grate ~2 inches above the fire ring, but that seems like a positive thing. Right now, I would be hanging a drip pan from the cooking grate just to act as a heat buffer from the charcoal/wood.

I'm not completely following your question. But here is the set up:
1) Lump about halfway up the fire ring.
2) Plate setter, legs up, sitting on the fire ring. I put one of the legs directly in the back as I have a hot spot there.
3) Drip pan, lined in foil if you wish, sitting on the plate setter. I put an angle iron spacer between the plate setter and the drip pan to lift it up 1/4 inch for some air space, but it is not critical if you don't have something that will work.
4) Main grate sitting on the three legs of the plate setter. This will put the level of the grate just below the gasket.
5) If you want to cook something else above the main grate, add the extender.

Hope this helps, if not ask away...

Here are a couple of pastrami's, but you get the idea. If you look close, you can see the legs of the plate setter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbeque/4908f4b9.jpg

Here is the same set up as above with only the extender added for an over/under.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbeque/b794591f.jpg
You would use the plate setter legs down, with a pizza stone on top of it, if you wanted to make a pizza or bake some bread or skip the pizza stone if you are baking a casserole etc.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/thirdeye2/Barbeque/39173a7d.jpg

[Q_Egg]

... how much charcoal + smoking wood will be required and was going to leave the plate setter out to allow more fuel (up to the firering top). Your set-up suggests that I won't need so much with temps down in the 230-250*F range for up to 15 hours? I guess there would be no problem adding some late in the cook.

[thirdeye]

... how much charcoal + smoking wood will be required and was going to leave the plate setter out to allow more fuel (up to the firering top). Your set-up suggests that I won't need so much with temps down in the 230-250*F range for up to 15 hours? I guess there would be no problem adding some late in the cook.

If you have good quality lump, halfway up the ring, your fire will burn for 20 hours +. Start a fire in the center of the lump. Wood (type and amount) is a personal choice. I opt for a gentle smoke on brisket, but that is just me. I will mix a few sticks into the lump (so they catch as the lump burns away from the center, and put a few sticks on top, but I let the fire burn until the smoke settles down. This will take about an hour. (If it's puffin' white, it aint right). Bear in mind that the lump will give off a little flavor on it's own during a long cook.

I have never had to add lump during a cook. The longest one I ever did was 24 hours. Others have reported 30 hour cooks using Wicked Good or KLump. For insurance, you might want to use a wiggle rod after 5 or 6 hours and again if you have any circulation issues or if you leave the Egg unattended for a few hours.

[Q_Egg]

... down for the long cook. I have some pre-cook pics to post in a bit.

Much appreciation for getting me off to a sound start.

[Q_Egg]

..... just to show the set-up after last night's valued help from all here.

One final shot just as the cook started.

Regards,

[Ron_L]

May I suggest--You have started an excellent thread allready about this adventure.
If you will just continue with one thread (this one will work fine) --you will get more consistant advice :lol:
What happens is this. New folks drop in, see the thread, do not realize all the work you have allready put into your decisions, and then they confuse the hell out of the whole process :twisted:

Just an idea--one thread works so much better that several if you want consistant advice--OK?

TIM

Excellent suggestion, Kapn! I went ahead and merged the threads so all of the info is in one place.

Tom, that looks like a nice brisket. Keep us posted on the cook and, of course, the results!

[Q_Egg]

..... cooker dome is at 240*F and has held very steady all day. Outdoor temp hit 108*F a few hours ago and it's going to be a hot night!

With the brisket plateaued at 157*F, do I just be patient and wait for the collagen to dissolve followed by a temp increase? No fooling with the cooker temp? I am shooting for 190-195*F, right? What is the likelihood that the internal temp will not increase much? Given the ~14lb brisket weight going in, is there a cooking time duration when I shohld raise the flag and ask for alternative help?

Sorry, the long day is getting me jumpy!

[The_Kapn]

..... cooker dome is at 240*F and has held very steady all day. Outdoor temp hit 108*F a few hours ago and it's going to be a hot night!

With the brisket plateaued at 157*F, do I just be patient and wait for the collagen to dissolve followed by a temp increase? YUP :lol: No fooling with the cooker temp? Not unless you want to speed it up. I am shooting for 190-195*F, right? YUP! In addition, a probe should slide in and out with ease :lol: What is the likelihood that the internal temp will not increase much? It will break through eventually--patience Grasshopper :lol: Given the ~14lb brisket weight going in, is there a cooking time duration when I shohld raise the flag and ask for alternative help? Not as long as your temps hold where they are! Just a waiting contest on those biggo packers cooked at your temps :lol:

Sorry, the long day is getting me jumpy!

Tommy--see my red above.
Relax, have a beer.
That is why you have a BGE :lol:
Sounds like it is all close to schedule.

When it breaks through 160 or so and starts to cook again--check the color of the bark.
If you like the color, you can wrap it in two layers of HD foil and leave it in BGE or just throw in the oven to finish.
With a probe in there--it will "beep" ya at the alarm temp.
Take a nap.
Once wrapped, it is just heat!
"Play it out" as you see fit. :lol:

TIM

[Q_Egg]

... sleeping much before midnight anyway! I'll have gas in my Dr Dentons if I eat brisket sammiches at that hour!

[Ron_L]

That's what the trap door is for! :-D

[Q_Egg]

.... Now I feel much better. This is a big brisket for us to eat, and I don't know the weight split from point to flat ... BUT .... what is a good plan for the extra big flat section? I will chop the point, separate into meal-size portions, Foodsaver it, and freeze. The flat will likely handle 4 or so different meals, and habit says to cut into single hunks, Foodsaver and freeze them. Is there any rationale for slicing it all first and then separating stacks of slices before freezing?

[The_Kapn]

Tommy- your plan for chopping the point is what I think most folks would do.
For the flat, I would go ahead and slice it up. Package in "family size" servings and freeze.
In addition, some folks go ahead and chop up some of the flat if they prefer chopped over sliced.
I personally chop most of the flat here at home. Most brisket winds up in soups, beans, stews, piled on a plate, and on sandwiches. Chopped just works better for us.
Just your preference on the flat, for sure. But, I would definitely slice then freeze.

Stay relaxed and enjoy :lol:
Sounds like you are doing fine!

TIM

[The_Kapn]

One additional thought for bagging/freezing.
I chop and pull butts and brisket and then bag many little "Zip Lock Snack Bags". Fatties also.
These little single serving sized baggies are then put in a dated and labeled quart Zip Lock and kept handy on the freezer door.
Pull one or more out, MicroZap it a bit, and you have an instant Sammich or personal sized serving without thawing out a full quart!
Just a thought.

TIM

[thirdeye]

Tom,

Don't get jumpy, Hehee. You're off to a good start & Tim has all of the right answers. Since you were running a 240° dome for the first 6 or 8 hours, the temperature at the grate was around 200°, which is good - Briskets like those temps. At 10 to 12 hours into your cook, the grate and dome temps try to equalize and can get within 20° of each other as long as you are not opening the lid often. This is good too - Briskets like to run the plateau around 220°, and you don't want to push the plateau by ramping up the temp. Like Tim said, when it breaks out, you can just let it finish or foil it.

So....Where am I headed with this? Since you mentioned "raising the flag" or changing your plan, here is something to consider next time: Since the Egg is so predictable you could have started with a higher dome temp, say around 270°, which would have given you about 230° at the grate during the early part of the cook. Now, you would have gotten to the pleateu a little faster, so you could ramp the temp down a little after say 8 or 9 hours and slide into the good plateau temps. Since the ceramic has heated up for 8 hours, it will take about 2 hours for you to ramp down 20° to 25°, so you have to plan this move in advance. This will save you some time. Not much time, but a couple of hours.

If you haven't yet, now is a good time to wiggle. You may not need it, but it can't hurt.

[Q_Egg]

..... I like the idea of pulling or chopping some of the flat. Doing this prior to freezing is also ideal for us.

We're at +12.5 hours, dome is at 255*F and flat is at 186*F. Dome has been very stable and flat is moving up rapidly! I have 'wiggled' twice since the start and will do again right now. I will remove at 190*F if the 'probe test' seems tender, otherwise I could go for 195*F. My cooler is at room temp ~78*F so I will just foil and cooler the flat for 2 more hours.

I was given a nice photo reference for separating the flat from the point ... at the seam. I will do this quickly, re-season the flat and go again for 190*F.

The tips for next time are noted and will help shorten things up a bit.

Many thanks to all (AGAIN) for making this first brisket cook a very pleasant and successful one. (I guess I should play the 9th inning before declaring victory?)

[thirdeye]

I like to add some liquid to the foodsaver bags before freezing. Coca Cola is my favorite, followed by a mixture of Coke and Apple juice. A very small amount goes a long way, maybe a tablespoon per 1 pound bag of brisket or PP.

[Q_Egg]

.... it took 13.5 hours for the flat to get there. Point is seasoned and back in at 171*F. Flat is foiled. towled, and coolered for next 2 hours. I may run to WalMart for some Coke! Checking out the ZipLok Snack Bags too.

All the best!

[thirdeye]

Now your only problem will be reconsidering brisket for a midnight snack or having it for breakfast. Since you are running for some Coke anyway, why not pick up a fatty or two to keep the point company, you have plenty of burn time left. That way if you have brisket at mindight, you can have a fatty in the morning. Variety is the spice of life.

[Q_Egg]

... and coolered, it is going to be getting late. In your (Brethren) experience, how big an issue is it to chop or pull while still warm, or put everything in the fridge tonight and do the post-cook work in the morning? I will not freeze until evrything is cooled down, but that could be 2:00 am or so. I hate to screw things up at this late stage by making the wrong choice in terms of pulling and chopping.

I will definitely produce some porn yet tonight..... right after I also pick up another fatty.

[thirdeye]

Ya know, I have prepped them both ways, still hot is easier for me just in case there are some larger layers of fat remaining in the point that I want to scrape off. Plus the meat close to the bark will separate easier too.

[Q_Egg]

... while I'm working. I bet a dip in some of Jay's Smokin' Cracker BBQ Sauce couldn't hurt either. I must be hooked.

G'_night all!

[Q_Egg]

.... up 'til 1:00am. Really pleased. Will need to ask for some comment and advice soon. Had some tastes last night and a great morning sammich! Here goes ...