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Bossmanbbq
05-01-2006, 10:50 AM
Ok my here is my sob story, I smoked a pork shoulder and a whole brisket yesterday, everything turned out great, tast,texture, smoke flavor, only one problem very little or no smoke ring. The pork shoulder had a nice ring, but the brisket had hardly anything at all, so what gives?
Didnt do anything diffrent then I have in the past, and it doesnt make sense why I would have a good smoke ring on the shoulder and very little on the brisket. Anyone have any secerets on getting a nice smoke ring on your brisket?
I smoked both the shoulder and brisket for 5 hours, foiled for 3 hours and then back on the smoker for an additional 2 hours. I used a 50/50mix of Oak and Sugar Maple. Tempature was steady between 225 and 255 throughout the cook. Any suggestions or thoughts?

Bossman
chuckmarting@bossmanbbq.com

kickassbbq
05-01-2006, 11:43 AM
The Boss Man man,
Smoke Ring Stoke Ring. Did it taste good? Was it tender and moist? Sometimes you get a ring, sometimes you don't. A smoke ring has nothing at all to do with flavor, tenderness and moisture.
There have been posts about what causes the ring before, can't remember what they said. Too testnicle for me, but nothing to do with taste and flavor of the meat.
Only my opinion and I don't know Jack Didley about nothing!!!!!!!!!!!
Smoke On!!!! Ring or not.
ed

Smokin Okole
05-01-2006, 11:57 AM
did you say something mean to the brisket before putting it in?

icemn62
05-01-2006, 11:57 AM
You are right, the ring has nothing to do with the flavor, tenderness, taste. It is a function of a chemical reaction of the meat with smoke.

Slice samples and ship them to ICEMN62 Testing labs and we will send you a report of the smoke ringness or lack there of.

Kirk
05-01-2006, 12:04 PM
It is a function of a chemical reaction of the meat with smoke...
... a reaction that quits once the meat reaches 140. The colder the meat is when it goes in the cooker, the longer it will take to get to 140. Going straight from the fridge to the grate might give you more of a ring.

brdbbq
05-01-2006, 12:05 PM
I be damned learn something on this site every time I log in.

kcquer
05-01-2006, 01:58 PM
You are right, the ring has nothing to do with the flavor, tenderness, taste. It is a function of a chemical reaction of the meat with smoke.

Absolutely correct.

You can use Prauge Powder or Morton's Tenderquick to get a solid smokering while cooking in an oven, but you won't get smoke flavor. On the other hand, you can use good wood and have plenty of smoke flavor and not get much of a smokering.

Going straight from the fridge to the grate might give you more of a ring.

This will help, but don't chase smokering as a goal. It won't make you Q taste any better.

BTW-smokering is a reaction between nitrates/nitrites in the smoke and the myoglobin/hemoglobin in the meat.

MoKanMeathead
05-01-2006, 02:47 PM
While I agree with everything above, in my opinion the smokering does help the presentation score in a contest. Put a little bit of TQ salt in your rub - you will get a smokering.

Bigmista
05-01-2006, 03:09 PM
What's TQ salt?

backyardchef
05-01-2006, 03:17 PM
Tender Quick

chad
05-01-2006, 03:29 PM
The TQ trick is one reason special effort is taken to explain to new KCBS and FBA judges to not put too much weight on the smoke ring...yes, it does, I think, help the overall presentation -- but it is certainly not as important as taste, tenderness, and neat appearance....I love it when I get a good natural smoke ring but I don't actually pay much attention to it anymore.

Bossmanbbq
05-01-2006, 03:48 PM
Dont get me wrong, no complaints on the taste and tenderness of the brisket it was and is awesome, I was just expecting a nice smokering and when it wasnt there It surprised me.
I do agree thought that it helps in judging, even though they are being taught not to put alot of weight on the smokering, but lets face it, it helps and when as a judge you have seen a smokering on brisket all day and all of sudden you have one without your going to ask yourself why and it is going to effect your score one way or another regardless if they say it doesnt matter or not.

Bossman
chuckmarting@bossmanbbq.com

brdbbq
05-01-2006, 03:52 PM
So what is TQ ?

chad
05-01-2006, 03:54 PM
So what is TQ ?

Morton's TenderQuick cure...it's what makes cured ham pink!!

http://www.mortonsalt.com/consumer/products/meatcuring/index.htm

icemn62
05-01-2006, 03:55 PM
I be damned learn something on this site every time I log in.

Me too.

HoDeDo
05-01-2006, 04:54 PM
Some folks actually rub thier brisket in TenderQuik and leave for an hour - then rinse thoroughly. you get a massive smoke ring.

Some folks add it to brine and do the same thing.

It is dangerous stuff though -- you leave it too long and you get a corned beef, or a chunk of salt pork. Brother Wayne's idea works well - but again, get too much, and you ruin your meat. Having said that, I have it in my BBQ for all contests - only use it on really tough cuts of meat - like if I get stuck with a bad flat.

Another option for contest smoke ring, is to paint one on after the fact. One of the guys on our team likes to paint a sauce ring on - then put back in the smoker to glaze it into the slice.... pull out of foil and stick in tray; brush with sauce ( or mist or whatever you like to do) and it is a nice darker red. viola. I thought it was nuts, but it has placed well twice.... so who knew!

kcquer
05-01-2006, 05:35 PM
Bossman, I just picked up from another thread that you're cooking on a Treager, this changes everything. There are a couple of things you can do to impove smokering in a pellet pooper.

1-start with cold meat
2-use the step method for cooking. This is a method where you begin you cook on the smoke setting for 2 hours (this step works best using pure flavor wood pellets, no blended oak) then step up to 180 for 2 hours then up to 240 for the remainder of the cook, higher if you like. When you go from 180-240 you should change over to your more standard blend of oak for btu's along with whatever flavor you want to go along with it.
3-Don't rub in advance. Remove the meat from the packaging, rub it, and put it in the cooker.

I've used these methods and get a solid 1/4" minimum smoke ring on briskets everytime, along with great smoke flavor.

bbqjoe
05-01-2006, 06:25 PM
I moved myself. See one for the books

Jeff_in_KC
05-01-2006, 09:52 PM
3-Don't rub in advance. Remove the meat from the packaging, rub it, and put it in the cooker.

I've used these methods and get a solid 1/4" minimum smoke ring on briskets everytime, along with great smoke flavor.

Scott, not rubbing in advance doesn't change the flavor of the seasoned meat when done? I'd be interested in seeing how length of time a seasoned brisket sat effected the taste. That could definitely save me a couple of days vacation if I could pull in at 5pm, set up and start cooking! :grin: I bet it helps cut down on mushy bark.

HoDeDo
05-01-2006, 09:58 PM
Scott, not rubbing in advance doesn't change the flavor of the seasoned meat when done? I'd be interested in seeing how length of time a seasoned brisket sat effected the taste. That could definitely save me a couple of days vacation if I could pull in at 5pm, set up and start cooking! :grin: I bet it helps cut down on mushy bark.

I would be interested in that too.... let me know how it goes :twisted:

So if you are a disciple of Mokan Chicken...... does that make WAYNE your Patron Saint :shock: < bow before the margarita....>

Lord help us all.....:roll:

kcquer
05-01-2006, 10:32 PM
Jeff, the only thing I think advance rubbing accomplishes on anything is allowing the meat to dry out by having salt applied before cooking.

kcquer
05-02-2006, 12:25 AM
My previous post was done in a bit of a hurry, I'll take a little time to expand.

The first year I had real cookers, I nearly always cooked briskets in pairs. I've done many A/B tests including fat cap up/down, with and without marinades, with and without mustard and rubbed 24hrs prior to cooking/just before cooking. I cannot tell that there is any improved spice penetration by rubbing in advance.
Specifically, within the context of this thread, which is how to improve smokering on brisket, on a pellet cooker, that sprinkling, not rubbing the rub, and not appying it to the meat until just before loading in the cooker will help Bossman get a stronger smokering. Achieving a strong smokering on brisket in my FE has been something I have spent a lot of time working on.

kickassbbq
05-02-2006, 07:34 AM
If I'm Judging and I see a smokering and the meat is dry, not tender and doesn't taste too good, the guy gets a 3.
If I see a smoke ring I just think the guy put on some TQ or something. I KNOW it ain't got nuttin' to do wiffin' its good BBQ or not!!!!!!
I think KCBS teaches to NOT LOOK for a smokering because THEY know it don't mean Jack Didley.
Now, if you think a smokering makes a difference, by ALL means shoot for one and throw away any meat that does not have one. Cetrtainly NEVER turn any at a comp without a ring. Like someone else stated, I will forward my address for all of that ringless meat.
Smoke On!!!!!
ed

Sawdustguy
05-02-2006, 08:41 AM
I agree Kickass. When I took my judging class, the instructor specifically told to us disregard the smoke ring. If it had a smoke ring ok, if not, thats ok too. We were emphatically instructed that no points were to be added or subtracted due to the smoke ring or lack of it.

Brauma
05-02-2006, 08:52 AM
Speaking of rubbing your brisket with tender quick... sorry wrong thread.

Good stuff here. I unlike BRD did learn something new. Thanks

Bossmanbbq
05-02-2006, 10:44 AM
Bossman, I just picked up from another thread that you're cooking on a Treager, this changes everything. There are a couple of things you can do to impove smokering in a pellet pooper.

1-start with cold meat
2-use the step method for cooking. This is a method where you begin you cook on the smoke setting for 2 hours (this step works best using pure flavor wood pellets, no blended oak) then step up to 180 for 2 hours then up to 240 for the remainder of the cook, higher if you like. When you go from 180-240 you should change over to your more standard blend of oak for btu's along with whatever flavor you want to go along with it.
3-Don't rub in advance. Remove the meat from the packaging, rub it, and put it in the cooker.

I've used these methods and get a solid 1/4" minimum smoke ring on briskets everytime, along with great smoke flavor.

Thanks kcquer, I will give it a shot and try it out, I plan on trying some of the tender quick out as well to see how much of a diffrence it makes. Lots of good info here, Thanks to all for the advice, friendship and willingness to help out, its posts like these that I return again and again to the Brethren for help and advice, you all are truely the best.

Bossman
chuckmarting@bossmanbbq.com

Dakaty
05-02-2006, 12:11 PM
I've always wondered why Morton named it Tender Quick when it is not a tenderizer!!!

Has anyone tried the sugar cure?


http://www.mortonsalt.com/consumer/products/meatcuring/index.htm

chad
05-02-2006, 12:19 PM
I've always wondered why Morton named it Tender Quick when it is not a tenderizer!!!

Has anyone tried the sugar cure?

http://www.mortonsalt.com/consumer/products/meatcuring/index.htm

I use High Mountain cures for buckboard bacon, jerky, and sausage. I keep thinking I need to try the Morton products but have just never done it.

RichardF
05-02-2006, 02:32 PM
I use Morton's TQ for making pastrami. It's the first step, when you take the brisket and turn it into a corned beef.

backyardchef
05-02-2006, 03:50 PM
I use it for corned beef, too, dry rub style. I've also used it on things like pork chops w/ brown sugar and honey for a quick overnight cure....

qman
05-02-2006, 04:08 PM
I've always wondered why Morton named it Tender Quick when it is not a tenderizer!!!

Has anyone tried the sugar cure?


http://www.mortonsalt.com/consumer/products/meatcuring/index.htm

I think maybe because TQ helps keep meat tender and juicy by retaining juices internally, preventing the product from becoming dry--as opposed to a "real" tenderizer which works by chemically breaking down the connective tissue

Bigmista
05-02-2006, 04:22 PM
Scott, not rubbing in advance doesn't change the flavor of the seasoned meat when done? I'd be interested in seeing how length of time a seasoned brisket sat effected the taste. That could definitely save me a couple of days vacation if I could pull in at 5pm, set up and start cooking! :grin: I bet it helps cut down on mushy bark.

The only thing I season in advance is poultry when I brine it. Eerything else, I inject and/or rub and into the smoker it goes.

kickassbbq
05-02-2006, 04:24 PM
What?????????????
It's just BBQ. You rocket scientists, you. I build a far, I throws on sum meats, I git er ta smokin', I check fer when it be dun, tenda an juicy and I eats it. Dats it, dont car bout no ring a ding a ling or anyting likin' dat.
Whew, where da asburn, I gots masef a hedach.
Smoke On!!!!
ed

ole'e
05-03-2006, 02:27 AM
I cooked a roast in the crock pot today that had some of our rub on it that tq in it and it had a "smoke ring".

Sledneck
05-03-2006, 07:54 AM
I cooked a roast in the crock pot today that had some of our rub on it that tq in it and it had a "smoke ring".

You should try some boiled ribs, thats the way we all do it around here

Jeff_in_KC
05-03-2006, 12:05 PM
Mmmmm boiled ribs....

TexasGuppie
05-03-2006, 04:21 PM
Ok my here is my sob story, I smoked a pork shoulder and a whole brisket yesterday, everything turned out great, tast,texture, smoke flavor, only one problem very little or no smoke ring. The pork shoulder had a nice ring, but the brisket had hardly anything at all, so what gives?
Didnt do anything diffrent then I have in the past, and it doesnt make sense why I would have a good smoke ring on the shoulder and very little on the brisket. Anyone have any secerets on getting a nice smoke ring on your brisket?
I smoked both the shoulder and brisket for 5 hours, foiled for 3 hours and then back on the smoker for an additional 2 hours. I used a 50/50mix of Oak and Sugar Maple. Tempature was steady between 225 and 255 throughout the cook. Any suggestions or thoughts?

Bossman
chuckmarting@bossmanbbq.com

Most often than not the lack of a smoke ring is caused by no smoke ring. This is caused by something other than what I know about but I do know that you eat the meat not the smoke ring so if you want a smoke ring then next time you cook you should get one.

Ken

qman
05-03-2006, 05:00 PM
Most often than not the lack of a smoke ring is caused by no smoke ring. This is caused by something other than what I know about but I do know that you eat the meat not the smoke ring so if you want a smoke ring then next time you cook you should get one.

Ken

Is this some kind of Zen, Ken? Or is it just part of a 12-step program?:mrgreen:

Draughter-TB
05-03-2006, 05:33 PM
I'm just a newbie, but feel that Zen (Ken) cleansed my BBQ soul:-D . Gotta be able to laugh at ourselves, if no one else. In the inimitable words of American Musician, Fats Waller - "One never knows, do one!". BREW!!!

Bossmanbbq
05-03-2006, 10:19 PM
Most often than not the lack of a smoke ring is caused by no smoke ring. This is caused by something other than what I know about but I do know that you eat the meat not the smoke ring so if you want a smoke ring then next time you cook you should get one.

Ken

Thanks Ken,,,,I think......that helps I guess, sure yeah....:roll:

Bossman
chuckmarting@bossmanbbq.com