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midwest_kc
09-16-2013, 12:59 PM
So, I'm in a bit of a predicament. The American Royal is the on comp a year that we have a sponsor. It's a full sponsorship, requiring only we cook food for the employee party the company has out there on Friday night. Long story short, my wife (who works there) sends me an e-mail with the options for our meats from Bichelmeyer, the company we get our Royal meat through.

One of those options this year is Kobe (in addition to choice and prime). Now, I'm not the type with the means or the will to spend $100+ on a single brisket. However, for free (to me), I'd really like to try it out. I've heard that you have to cook Kobe/Wagyu beef differently than a regular CAB brisket, so I'm wondering if it's worth it. We don't realistically have a shot at winning, but we obviously want to do well.

Given that this would be my only time to cook this grade of beef, what do you guys say....is it worth it? Also, what changes would need to be made to the cook?

Cast Iron Chef
09-16-2013, 01:03 PM
Personally if you don't have a chance to do several practice cooks I wouldn't do it. You have as good of chance as anybody to win. Why take a chance on something new?

Icekub
09-16-2013, 01:06 PM
Every piece of advice I've ever heard about competition BBQ says, the place to try something new is anywhere except a competition. It would be an extremely expensive place to experiment. Stick w/ what you know and have practiced.

landarc
09-16-2013, 01:07 PM
Here is what I did with a Snake River Farms Black Label Brisket.

1. Remove from Cryo, wash and dry. Decided not to trim, as the trim level on the fat cap was quite good. The wedge of fat that is often between the point and flat was small enough not to trim.

2. Rubbed the brisket up and let sit while the cooker got ready.

3. Put on cooker at 275F grate temperature, and after an hour, I let the cooker come up to 300F, and let it ride to probe tender

4. Removed and rested for two hours, Foil tent, no wrapping or cooler.

5. Separated and sliced.

My final opinion, it cooked through a process that was identical to Angus or Select briskets, except that it was already well trimmed and it cooked a little faster. It did stall a bit, and it was juicy as all get out. I would go for it.

midwest_kc
09-16-2013, 01:12 PM
Every piece of advice I've ever heard about competition BBQ says, the place to try something new is anywhere except a competition. It would be an extremely expensive place to experiment. Stick w/ what you know and have practiced.

Me too...I just didn't know how big a difference the meat really was between a Kobe and a prime (we usually get prime from Sam's for our briskets).

Thanks for the feedback!

ButtBurner
09-16-2013, 01:15 PM
if you are getting it free, how about trying it out at your company party meal?

INmitch
09-16-2013, 01:23 PM
Can you cook 2 briskets? I personally don't think they cook much different. Do one of each.

HookEcho
09-16-2013, 01:27 PM
IDK....you may have to send me over a couple to testout....you know just to be sure....:mrgreen:

Hawg Father of Seoul
09-16-2013, 01:29 PM
They are not $100 at Paradise. Cook two briskets or three.

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
09-16-2013, 01:30 PM
Their web site says "American Kobe" available upon request. Do you know what their source is? The term American Kobe makes me think it may be Snake River Farms.

Bbq Bubba
09-16-2013, 01:35 PM
Their web site says "American Kobe" available upon request. Do you know what their source is? The term American Kobe makes me think it may be Snake River Farms.

There is NO such thing as American Kobe. Im guessing its a Wagyu.

Not much diff in cooking compared to a prime. Good luck.

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
09-16-2013, 01:49 PM
There is NO such thing as American Kobe. Im guessing its a Wagyu.

Not much diff in cooking compared to a prime. Good luck.

I am aware of your main point, but SRF mentions the term on their web site. That is why I was guessing they might use SRF as their source.

"Family owned and operated, SNAKE RIVER FARMS works with farmers and ranchers with a similar philosophy for producing the highest quality. SNAKE RIVER FARMS crosses its premiere Japanese Wagyu cattle with Black Angus cattle to create American Wagyu Beef. Often called American Kobe Beef, the proprietary herd has developed into one of the most highly regarded groups of Wagyu/Angus crossed cattle in the world. SNAKE RIVER FARMS believes in sustaining family owned farms and ranches by rewarding the efforts of producers that embrace the exacting standards required to raise the finest livestock. The premium quality of SNAKE RIVER FARMS is a result of the dedication, hard work and coordinated efforts of the finest producers in the nation."

midwest_kc
09-16-2013, 01:58 PM
if you are getting it free, how about trying it out at your company party meal?

They want pulled pork and chicken, which is fine by me. Otherwise, I certainly would have tried to do that.

hedge
09-16-2013, 01:59 PM
i'm pretty sure japan doesn't allow kobe to be shipped to america.

midwest_kc
09-16-2013, 02:00 PM
Can you cook 2 briskets? I personally don't think they cook much different. Do one of each.

That's a good idea, I certainly will be doing 2. I hadn't thought about 1 of each, though, had just been working off the assumption of doing 2 of the same.

midwest_kc
09-16-2013, 02:07 PM
They are not $100 at Paradise. Cook two briskets or three.

How big are the ones at Paradise? That looks like a pretty solid price, and I could go pick them up easy...

bruno994
09-16-2013, 02:10 PM
Smoke it, slice it, box it, turn it in!

kenthanson
09-16-2013, 02:17 PM
i'm pretty sure japan doesn't allow kobe to be shipped to america.

The USDA relaxed the rules in 2012 regarding the importation of kobe beef to america and whole cuts of boneless beef can be imported to the USA. This is not to say that purebreed kobe cows are imported and slaughtered in the US, which might happen. American waygu is imported kobe cows usually mixed with angus.

landarc
09-16-2013, 02:37 PM
Kobe is a brand of beef, not a cattle breed. Cattle in Japan, that are allowed for Kobe beef are of the breed Wa-gyu. Wa refers to anything that is Japanese. I simply means self, or the people. Gyu is the Japanese word for cattle. Hence Wa-Gyu is Japanese cattle. Kobe is a location, similar to saying Nebraska Beef, it doesn't speak to breed, it speaks to location and technique in breeding and raising cattle.

There are other, or more so, many breeds of Wa-gyu cattle in Japan, and another from Okinawa, if you want to separate it from Japan. Each has it's own character, although the genetics are all quite similar. There is Kobe and other Japanese beef available now in the U.S., it is all quite expensive. American Kobe, is a lot like American Champagne, it is the USA not respecting the rights of foreign nations to hold on to their legal names. Most of the American Wagyu breed is crossed with American breeds, particularly Black Angus breed. SRF and many others are like this. My understanding is that there is at least one pure Wagyu breed in the U.S.

hedge
09-16-2013, 02:38 PM
The USDA relaxed the rules in 2012 regarding the importation of kobe beef to america and whole cuts of boneless beef can be imported to the USA. This is not to say that purebreed kobe cows are imported and slaughtered in the US, which might happen. American waygu is imported kobe cows usually mixed with angus.

it doesn't happen though.

Hawg Father of Seoul
09-16-2013, 03:02 PM
How big are the ones at Paradise? That looks like a pretty solid price, and I could go pick them up easy...

I have got a few big ones, but call to see what they got now.

K-Train
09-16-2013, 03:33 PM
Why not cook 2? Take the Kobe from them and buy what you normally cook.

WineMaster
09-16-2013, 03:43 PM
My new method will be to cook 1 competition quality brisket per comp. I have never scored that well in brisket, but had 3 sent to me from Strube and BPS. I have cooked a prime and the Strube at the last 3 comps and never sent the Prime. Had also never cooked Waygu. Just cook it like ya cook your other brisket.

boogiesnap
09-16-2013, 05:08 PM
as others already said, definately cook two. one what you usually use and one wagyu. taste test and turn in the best.

landarc, as far as i know, it's not a US import thing at this point but a japanese thing, that they don't or won't export native wagyu.

if i'm wrong, can you point me in the direction of imported japanese beef?

landarc
09-16-2013, 05:55 PM
There is a steakhouse in S.F. that has it from time to time, here is a mail order house that has it as well LINKY (http://debragga.com/products.asp?cat=32)

There are others.

boogiesnap
09-16-2013, 06:15 PM
thanks bob, guess i been out of the loop a bit too long to speak. :oops:

landarc
09-16-2013, 06:22 PM
Well, $100 for a 12 ounce steak is not a loop many of us find ourselves in.

boogiesnap
09-16-2013, 06:38 PM
Agreed.

columbia1
09-16-2013, 08:29 PM
I went from CAB's last year to Waygu this year, yes they do cook differently, BUT as long as you use the probe test you should be fine, times are a little diffent but it sound's like you are able to adjust, don't stress over it!!!!

columbia1
09-16-2013, 08:30 PM
BTW, see you at the Royal, spot 670!!!

Skip
09-16-2013, 08:42 PM
Much less cook time. Very little collagen to melt. Rested too long and they go mushy/mealy. Rapid cool them if you have to pull them too early. If you can get a wagyu then take it but cook what got you there too.

ModelMaker
09-17-2013, 07:30 AM
Has thou not heard of the wise 'ol saying "Don't bite the hand that feeds you?"
If I was your wifes boss and got wind of you sticking me for a ridicules priced chunk of meat, I think I'd find somebody else to sponser next year.
Just sayin.
Ed

boogiesnap
09-17-2013, 08:46 AM
valid point, but as long as your up front with them i think you'd be OK.

plus, i imagine they'd enjoy the novelty of having some of the highest quality meat available cooked to competition level.

bmikiten
09-17-2013, 11:04 AM
After reading this thread I picked up a prime brisket (trimmed) at a local meat market. I injected it, rubbed it and cooked it to 180 after the butcher convinced me that anything over 180 would be a mistake. The meat had so little fat that it didn't separate well and was tough due to what I assume was too little time on the (Memphis Pro) pit. I've never had this issue with Sams or Costco briskets and wonder how much of it was the prime beef. How many people are competing with prime versus good old Choice?

Hawg Father of Seoul
09-17-2013, 11:13 AM
After reading this thread I picked up a prime brisket (trimmed) at a local meat market. I injected it, rubbed it and cooked it to 180 after the butcher convinced me that anything over 180 would be a mistake. The meat had so little fat that it didn't separate well and was tough due to what I assume was too little time on the (Memphis Pro) pit. I've never had this issue with Sams or Costco briskets and wonder how much of it was the prime beef. How many people are competing with prime versus good old Choice?

There is only one butcher you can trust with brisket and his name is David.

That dude you talked to needs to leave the cooking to cooks and keep cutting.

landarc
09-17-2013, 11:27 AM
That brisket was so undercooked, and it was in exactly the worst temperature range for brisket

CBQ
09-17-2013, 12:08 PM
After reading this thread I picked up a prime brisket (trimmed) at a local meat market. I injected it, rubbed it and cooked it to 180 after the butcher convinced me that anything over 180 would be a mistake. The meat had so little fat that it didn't separate well and was tough due to what I assume was too little time on the (Memphis Pro) pit. I've never had this issue with Sams or Costco briskets and wonder how much of it was the prime beef. How many people are competing with prime versus good old Choice?

It should have a lot of intramuscular fat if it's prime. (The strands between the muscle fibers, not the big chucks of solid fat you are probably trimming off anyway.)

It's that fat that keeps the meat moist - but like landarc said, 180 isn't right. You need it to be probe tender before you take it off the cooker, and that's going to be closer to 200. Choice or prime or wagyu will not be good at 180.

I have gotten high calls with choice and with wagyu. Prime or Wagyu aren't magic bullets if the brisket isn't cooked right.

frankH
09-17-2013, 07:20 PM
We cooked two amazing Waygu briskets for the first time at the Lenexa bbq battle this year. One turned out to be the best brisket we ever cooked, and good enough for 14th.

At mission, ks last weekend we nabbed first with 1 great looking prime from SAMs. It turned out as good or better than the Waygu.

We decided that on average Waygu was better than prime which, on average, is better than choice. But for any given range, there will be outliers that can beat anything. JMTC, Based on our vast experience cooking 3 Waygu, 10 primes, and 20 choice.

For what it's worth, we'll cook a prime and a Waygu at the royal this year. Space 470!

WhatHappened
09-18-2013, 12:25 PM
Last I knew, real Kobe beef was not legal in the US, as processing in Kobe did not meet USDA standards. I have heard of ways around this by bringing the mean through Canada. Has this changed? Just curious.

I would stick to what you are comfortable with. We have done a few side by sides with Wagyu, and choice. People have all pointed to the choice as the one they prefer. Just my personal $.02.

If you do try it, I will be curious to hear if you do try this how it came out.

Stoke&Smoke
09-18-2013, 04:58 PM
Kobe isnt allowed in us but I believe it would be usda regs
waygu is supposed to be same breed, but not nescessarily beer fed and massaged. Theres a local place that advertises bbq "kobe" and it irks me a bit.

Snake river is one source but I think allen bros in chi carry it also.

I alwYs thought the point of bbq was to take a cheap, tough cut and make it buttah!
Soory for typos....ona train!

CBQ
09-18-2013, 09:03 PM
Last I knew, real Kobe beef was not legal in the US, as processing in Kobe did not meet USDA standards.

That changed in 2012, but real Kobe beef is not being imported for use in BBQ. It shows up at high end steakhouses. A lot of places also call beef Kobe that isn't really Kobe. Kobe is a brand name, like CAB is, and there is lots of stuff out there called Kobe that isn't from Japan.

Wagyu is a name given to US raised beef that is interbred with Japanese cattle that may or may not be related to the breed used in Kobe beef. The standards for Wagyu are pretty loose, which is one reason why Strube, Imperial, SRF, etc. are not the same.

The real questions are: do like like the way a particular brand cooks? Is the producer pretty consistent with providing briskets that are similar or do you have to buy 15 to get 3 good ones? Does it convey an advantage to you, and does that advantage outweigh the cost? These are the things that are important to me, no matter what it's called and whether the name is authentic or not.

57borntorun
09-19-2013, 10:49 AM
So are there any USDA standards in place as I see more and more Rests. claiming "AMERICAN KOBE BEEF".Is there a percentage of Waygu to other breeds nessessery for such claims.Perhaps a certification process.I have tasted some burgers with this claim and found no difference in fat or flavor.Does anyone remember when the "TRUTH IN MENU" law came into law through the Federal Government?

Jacked UP BBQ
09-19-2013, 11:42 AM
We cooked choice for a long time and were a top team in the kcbs, we switched to wagyu and had our scores drop, sometimes I think the tenderness killed me. I went back to prime grass fed and have been back doing better in brisket. Wagyu is a nice piece of meat, but not sure it is the save all.