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View Full Version : Your thoughts on paying 10 places (KCBS)?


The Cosmic Pig
08-21-2013, 01:25 PM
Personally, I'd rather see just the top 3 places in each category paid (in addition to grand/reserve champs, of course) so that they could pay more substantial sums of money. At a lot of KCBS competitions a first place win won't even get your expenses paid. I don't go to those. A first place showing should at least return your expenses, plus a little more to reward a superior effort. But that's my humble opinion. Your thoughts?

Teamfour
08-21-2013, 01:35 PM
I guess I think differently for a couple of reasons:
1) I'm not in this "sport" to make money (and I think that would be a bad idea)
2) I don't finish in the top three (yet) so I will take what $ I can get

Competing for me is all about the passion of cooking great Q. When I raced sports cars I spent $1000 per weekend for a $5 plastic trophy. If not making money were an impediment to having a great hobby, I would have very few things to do in my spare time.

columbia1
08-21-2013, 01:38 PM
All depends on the total payout amount, normally I like to see payouts in individual catagories go down to 10th place, that way more teams can share in the pool and off-set their expenses instead of just a couple teams taking the majority. If the top four teams cannot even breakeven I usually will avoid that comp.

columbia1
08-21-2013, 01:43 PM
Here is what I consider a perfect payout structure, it is from the Wildwest Shootout happening this weekend in Nevada. https://www.facebook.com/events/414358195324799/
Grand Champion: $6,500
+$250 Entry into the World Food Championships
+$250 Gas Stipend

Reserve Champion: $3,000

KCBS Categories: Chicken, Ribs, Pork & Brisket categories as follows:

1st place: $900
2nd place: $725
3rd place: $500
4th place: $300
5th place: $200
6th place: $150
7th place: $125
8th place: $100
9th place: $75
10th place: $50

High Roller’s Choice Payout: $2,500 (1st - $1,250 - 2nd - $750 - 3rd $500)

Total Cash Amount: $25,000

The Cosmic Pig
08-21-2013, 01:55 PM
I guess I think differently for a couple of reasons:
1) I'm not in this "sport" to make money (and I think that would be a bad idea)
2) I don't finish in the top three (yet) so I will take what $ I can get

Competing for me is all about the passion of cooking great Q. When I raced sports cars I spent $1000 per weekend for a $5 plastic trophy. If not making money were an impediment to having a great hobby, I would have very few things to do in my spare time.

In reality, I'd guess few folks ever actually make money at BBQ competitions. Unless, of course, they're people like Mixon, etc. I will probably never win enough to pay off my equipment/expense costs combined if I compete for the rest of my life. I'm just suggesting being able to pay your expenses for a competition and celebrate with a nice meal somewhere for a first place win. Something other than just break even - or less.

Cue's Your Daddy
08-21-2013, 02:07 PM
Here is what I consider a perfect payout structure, it is from the Wildwest Shootout happening this weekend in Nevada. https://www.facebook.com/events/414358195324799/
Grand Champion: $6,500
+$250 Entry into the World Food Championships
+$250 Gas Stipend

Reserve Champion: $3,000

KCBS Categories: Chicken, Ribs, Pork & Brisket categories as follows:

1st place: $900
2nd place: $725
3rd place: $500
4th place: $300
5th place: $200
6th place: $150
7th place: $125
8th place: $100
9th place: $75
10th place: $50

High Rollerís Choice Payout: $2,500 (1st - $1,250 - 2nd - $750 - 3rd $500)

Total Cash Amount: $25,000

That Structure is based on a 25k prize pool which is very rare. 6k to 10k prize pool is a pretty good contest.

cpw
08-21-2013, 02:08 PM
I think the vast majority of competitors would rather see payments to the top 10 instead of the top 3. I'd much rather walk away with $50 for 10th place than nothing at all.

Organizers just need to figure out how to make all contests pay out like Smoke on the Water events. I was listening to Whiskey Bent's show the other day, the organizer was talking about a $50k purse the first year out for Atlantic City, going up to $250k over five years.

Ford
08-21-2013, 02:12 PM
Top 10 overall and each category. We have a lot of FBA contests that do this. Of course most of our contests have 10k+ prize pools.

Ron_L
08-21-2013, 02:19 PM
Personally, I'd rather see just the top 3 places in each category paid (in addition to grand/reserve champs, of course) so that they could pay more substantial sums of money. At a lot of KCBS competitions a first place win won't even get your expenses paid. I don't go to those. A first place showing should at least return your expenses, plus a little more to reward a superior effort. But that's my humble opinion. Your thoughts?

I have a couple of thoughts on this...

1. KCBS requires competitions to pay the top 5 in each category, so in a KCBS competition paying the top 3 in each category wouldn't be allowed.

2. I don't think expecting to break even or be ahead just by winning a category is realistic. I think winning a category should cover your expenses for that category and put a good dent in your overall expenses, but that's about it.

I agree that getting a small check is better than another ribbon, but that should be done by increasing the prize pool, not by taking it away from the overall prizes or reducing the higher places. I also realize that this is not always possible.

fnbish
08-21-2013, 02:54 PM
Personally, I'd rather see just the top 3 places in each category paid (in addition to grand/reserve champs, of course) so that they could pay more substantial sums of money. At a lot of KCBS competitions a first place win won't even get your expenses paid. I don't go to those. A first place showing should at least return your expenses, plus a little more to reward a superior effort. But that's my humble opinion. Your thoughts?

A lot of those $50 10th place payouts keeps teams coming back to compete if it was their only call. I'm not sure what payouts you are seeing for first place category, but normally around here they seem to be at minimum $500. $500 would pay back a very large portion/most of my expenses for the comp.

The Cosmic Pig
08-21-2013, 02:55 PM
I have a couple of thoughts on this...

1. KCBS requires competitions to pay the top 5 in each category, so in a KCBS competition paying the top 3 in each category wouldn't be allowed.

2. I don't think expecting to break even or be ahead just by winning a category is realistic. I think winning a category should cover your expenses for that category and put a good dent in your overall expenses, but that's about it.

I agree that getting a small check is better than another ribbon, but that should be done by increasing the prize pool, not by taking it away from the overall prizes or reducing the higher places. I also realize that this is not always possible.


Winning a category is all some of us will ever do given the field of competitiors at a good number of competitions. And to me, that's a MAJOR accomplishment...not a "just!" :heh: But the current prize structure - in most cases - basically allows the top two competitors to make money, hopefully, or at least break even. The rest are guaranteed to lose money unless first place pays more than $500 - $600 dollars. Wouldn't it make competitions more attractive to more folks if first place paid $750 or so, and there's a chance they could actually bring home a couple-hundred dollars? That way, at least six teams could cover expenses and perhaps win a little extra. I'd much rather have a chance at that than a check for $50. Once again, just my opinion!

cpw
08-21-2013, 02:57 PM
A lot of those $50 10th place payouts keeps teams coming back to compete if it was their only call.

Exactly!! As long as I can tell my wife that I won even a little money, it's harder for her to tell me to quit going to the damn contests in the first place.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
08-21-2013, 03:04 PM
Me, personally I am in it for the bling a ribbon, cheezy printed certificate, plastic bowling trophie etc. if I was lucky enough to ever hear my name I want something to look at down the road. I am just gonna spend that small check on beer anyway.

The Cosmic Pig
08-21-2013, 03:29 PM
A lot of those $50 10th place payouts keeps teams coming back to compete if it was their only call. I'm not sure what payouts you are seeing for first place category, but normally around here they seem to be at minimum $500. $500 would pay back a very large portion/most of my expenses for the comp.

I was looking at doing a competition in Marietta, GA where first place pays $400. Actually, two others I looked at possibly doing paid the same amount. It would cost me at least $550 to do it - all things total - in addition to a 3.5 hour drive each way. If I could cover my my costs, bring home a first place trophy and $100 bucks, I would be an extremely happy camper. But win the trophy and still lose $150 bucks...not so much.

tker32
08-21-2013, 03:32 PM
I don't know about other areas of the country, but for us, there are a handful of "big name" teams that are consistently in the top 3 or so at local events. These teams go on to win the big national comps as well. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of teams are doing less than 10 competitions a year. It's already tough enough for these smaller, part-time teams to recoup any of their costs. If you make it that much harder for them to have the chance to get anything back at all, I'm pretty sure team counts at contests will start to fall and eventually there will be fewer contests to hit for a payout.

DawgPhan
08-21-2013, 03:43 PM
I think that you should just treat the overall and categories the same and split any payout into 5 pots and hen pay through 10th place.

If there are 35 teams I think paying 10 places in everything is a good start.

The Cosmic Pig
08-21-2013, 03:54 PM
I don't know about other areas of the country, but for us, there are a handful of "big name" teams that are consistently in the top 3 or so at local events. These teams go on to win the big national comps as well. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of teams are doing less than 10 competitions a year. It's already tough enough for these smaller, part-time teams to recoup any of their costs. If you make it that much harder for them to have the chance to get anything back at all, I'm pretty sure team counts at contests will start to fall and eventually there will be fewer contests to hit for a payout.

Very valid points. I guess it depends on each individual's perspective, though. If I've "invested" $550 to do a comp and I get back $50 for a walk, I don't feel I've gotten back enough to matter. And if the competition pays less than $600 for first place, I personally will reduce the team count by not showing up! :heh:

Slamdunkpro
08-21-2013, 04:15 PM
I'm far more interested in the % of entry fees returned as prizes, especially events with "major sponsors". I see a lot of events lately that only return 25-35% of the entry fees yet they advertize major corporate sponsors plus they charge a hefty admission to the public.

kenthanson
08-21-2013, 04:56 PM
Non KCBS but structure is very similar in the PNWBA, first contest this year we had 4th, 4th and a 5th and walked out with zero dollars and zero cents, not doing that contest next year.

Icekub
08-21-2013, 05:01 PM
I like comps that call top 10 in every category. Money should prob go to top 5 in each category + GC and RGC. But for bigger comps w/ bigger prize pools 15K+ should prob throw bones to 6-10 also

rooftop bbq
08-21-2013, 05:02 PM
personally id like to see more money going to teams finishing better overall instead of categories. kind of sucks getting a third overall with nothing to show for it, and seeing GC and RGC walking away with the big share of the prize money

sitnfat
08-21-2013, 05:31 PM
If they only paid the top 3 a lot of small teams would probably stop competing like someone else said that 50 dollar check keeps them coming back. If you need to win your investment back you may have the wrong hobby. I wish I could do a contest and only spend 550 bucks.

fnbish
08-21-2013, 05:51 PM
I was looking at doing a competition in Marietta, GA where first place pays $400. Actually, two others I looked at possibly doing paid the same amount. It would cost me at least $550 to do it - all things total - in addition to a 3.5 hour drive each way. If I could cover my my costs, bring home a first place trophy and $100 bucks, I would be an extremely happy camper. But win the trophy and still lose $150 bucks...not so much.

What happens at the competitions you go to where they payouts are big and maybe you travel a little father, but you don't win anything?

sdbbq1234
08-21-2013, 06:05 PM
Me, personally I am in it for the bling a ribbon, cheezy printed certificate, plastic bowling trophie etc. if I was lucky enough to ever hear my name I want something to look at down the road. I am just gonna spend that small check on beer anyway.

Bling a ribbon? I thought you said Pabst Blue Ribbon...:wink:

wallace

sdbbq1234
08-21-2013, 06:34 PM
Heck for me, I wish they would pay down to the next to the last for each category. That way, I would win. :mrgreen::wacko:

All kidding aside, if it is a big pot of money, I would like to see down to 10th place. Smaller pots, down to the 5th place.

But then, what constitutes a "big and small pot" of money. I would also be interested in what the pots of money are and related to the entry fees + corporate sponsors + etc...

But, as a relatively new team (been in 8 comps), I'll take what I can get for now.

Trust me, we were happy as pigs in slop last weekend when we won $100.00 at the SAMs comp in Laurel, MD.

For us, we knew this BBQ comp thingy was going to be a money pit if we REALLY wanted to be in the game.

Already getting a few trophies, and 1 ribbon, and 1 paper certificate and then this check has made us want to stay for the long run.

Making some good friends along the way, making great memories, well, we want to be in it for the long haul (BTW, looking for a battle wagon/bat mobile now :biggrin1:)

I am starting to wonder if the whole BBQ trend is allowing some of the organizers to take advantage of the situation, at the competitors expense.

:heh:

wallace

sitnfat
08-21-2013, 07:00 PM
Mmmmmmm Pabst Blue Ribbon

djqualls
08-21-2013, 10:45 PM
I believe in paying 10 deep in all categories and overall. A Commemorative award is great to hang on the wall, and some good ole US Currency even if its a $20 dollar bill symbolizes accomplishment. Its no different than giving the nephew/niece a $10 bill for their birthday.

If you're doing this to make a profit, get you a sponsor. No one will make a profit in Comp BBQ over a period of time off of prize money alone. it cost a lot of money to put on a comp let alone the prize structure.

In KCBS, just think of what happen to the prize pool if organizers were required to pay CBJ's $10 per contest as some form of reimbursement. What more valuable $10 or a Non CBJ Judge?

poorolddan
08-21-2013, 11:09 PM
I agree with tker. I'd even like to see the GC & RGC paid $500 & $250. Then each category pay 10 places with 10th getting $100. I've gotten many 3 thru 10th place calls and not much more than a "participation" ribbon.
Spread the money around to those of us that keep paying the entry fees and hardly get any thanks.

Muzzlebrake
08-22-2013, 12:29 AM
personally id like to see more money going to teams finishing better overall instead of categories. kind of sucks getting a third overall with nothing to show for it, and seeing GC and RGC walking away with the big share of the prize money

How about finishing 3rd-5th O/A and watching the team that placed 8th in chicken walking away with more money? I cannot understand why week in and week out at contests across the country teams that accomplish the most are often rewarded the least. It's much more difficult to finish top 10 overall yet the overwhelming majority of contests pay more to the team finishing 5 in pork than 3rd overall. I don't get it.

I don't know about other areas of the country, but for us, there are a handful of "big name" teams that are consistently in the top 3 or so at local events. These teams go on to win the big national comps as well. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of teams are doing less than 10 competitions a year. It's already tough enough for these smaller, part-time teams to recoup any of their costs. If you make it that much harder for them to have the chance to get anything back at all, I'm pretty sure team counts at contests will start to fall and eventually there will be fewer contests to hit for a payout.

I think that these teams more than likely dominate the top 5 in the categories too. Paying out deeper in the categories isn't going to change that.

I agree with tker. I'd even like to see the GC & RGC paid $500 & $250. Then each category pay 10 places with 10th getting $100. I've gotten many 3 thru 10th place calls and not much more than a "participation" ribbon.
Spread the money around to those of us that keep paying the entry fees and hardly get any thanks.

So those who accomplish the most should be rewarded the least? I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me. This isn't Montessori school, this is the big leagues. When you are talking about KCBS contests, you are talking about competing in what is arguably the highest level of competitive cooking in the country. To think that an individual category should count more than the whole contest makes as much sense as a football game being won not by the team with the highest score but the one that has more first downs or interceptions.

CivilWarBBQ
08-22-2013, 03:37 AM
Speaking as an organizer now:

My current contest pays ten places for OVERALL with smaller payouts for Grand and Reserve than some other events of the same size. With a $7500 prize pool, ten places in categories is just too far to spread the available jam so we pay the KCBS mandated five places with amounts that are about average for our size contest. My thinking is that I want to reward the team that is putting up a good product consistently across all four meats, but just not quite making it into the top 5.

To me, the guy who finishes 6th, 7th, 9th and 12th is showing that he is a better cook than the fellow who takes 2nd in pork but is at the bottom of the pack in everything else. I want to reward that cook who is consistently finishing top ten overall but just hasn't broken the barrier yet.

Personal feelings aside, there is one overwhelming reason for organizers to spread the cash out. When you pay large sums to just a few winners you make a small number of people very happy, but if you pay smaller sums to a bigger pool of winners you please a lot of people. Events can't survive without teams coming back, and the team that goes home with a check is a lot more likely to return next year, even if they only won fifty bucks.

Hawg Father of Seoul
08-22-2013, 04:23 AM
To me, the guy who finishes 6th, 7th, 9th and 12th is showing that he is a better cook than the fellow who takes 2nd in pork but is at the bottom of the pack in everything else. I want to reward that cook who is consistently finishing top ten overall but just hasn't broken the barrier yet.



Maybe I just have not been around long enough, but from what I have seen. Paying 10 places per category and paying top 10 overall typically pays the same teams. Not in every situation, but in most.

Having some contests pay one and others pay the other is a good thing in my opinion. It makes people feel like they have options.

Hats off to all the organizers that take the time to plan and to think things like this through. I do know that many teams like it when all the money is not concentrated on the GC.

The Cosmic Pig
08-22-2013, 06:29 AM
If they only paid the top 3 a lot of small teams would probably stop competing like someone else said that 50 dollar check keeps them coming back. If you need to win your investment back you may have the wrong hobby. I wish I could do a contest and only spend 550 bucks.

If you're not going to be rewarded for a good showing why even compete? If you work your butt off to come up with a good product and get nothing for your effort, what's the use? I can stay home and have fun cooking BBQ with/for friends and donate money to charity if I'm in it to lose money or just for the fun of it. I don't need to make a profit, necessarily, but reward my effort, at least! And I won $50 for sixth place chicken once; meant next to nothing to me. And I wouldn't even mention it to anyone if I came in tenth place in a category. :tsk:

CivilWarBBQ
08-22-2013, 06:38 AM
And I won $50 for sixth place chicken once; meant next to nothing to me.

In that case, I hope you handed the check over to the guy cooking next to you. I bet he would have appreciated the tank of gas!

cpw
08-22-2013, 06:40 AM
And I wouldn't even mention it to anyone if I came in tenth place in a category. :tsk:

But if I got a tenth place on any category at a 30 or 40 team contest, I'm pretty damn happy about it.

CivilWarBBQ
08-22-2013, 06:43 AM
Maybe I just have not been around long enough, but from what I have seen. Paying 10 places per category and paying top 10 overall typically pays the same teams. Not in every situation, but in most.


Possibly, but paying down ten in the categories means a forty-way split of your available prize money, instead of a ten-way. In a $20K contest that might be no problem, but at smaller events it becomes sort of ridiculous to spend all that time and effort to distribute ten dollar checks. $50 is about as low as I like to go to keep it a meaningful amount of money.

The Cosmic Pig
08-22-2013, 06:47 AM
In that case, I hope you handed the check over to the guy cooking next to you. I bet he would have appreciated the tank of gas!

But $50 won't even buy a tank of gas nowadays! :heh:

The Cosmic Pig
08-22-2013, 06:49 AM
But if I got a tenth place on any category at a 30 or 40 team contest, I'm pretty damn happy about it.

Well, I have to admit I'm basically a perfectionist. I shoot for first and if I don't get it I feel like a loser! :crazy:

kenthanson
08-22-2013, 07:19 AM
Well, I have to admit I'm basically a perfectionist. I shoot for first and if I don't get it I feel like a loser! :crazy:

Worst attitude.

DawgPhan
08-22-2013, 07:20 AM
Well, I have to admit I'm basically a perfectionist. I shoot for first and if I don't get it I feel like a loser! :crazy:


do you compete often? Because no one wins with any real consistency.

Even the teams that get auto to the jack cooked dozens of contests where they didnt win. I doubt any of them consider themselves a loser. Anytime I hear my name called, I feel better good about it.

Icekub
08-22-2013, 07:33 AM
Well, I have to admit I'm basically a perfectionist. I shoot for first and if I don't get it I feel like a loser! :crazy:

Even Ricky Bobby eventually saw the error of this line of thought. "If you're not first, you're last" This catchphrase not to be used w/out permission of Ricky Bobby Inc. Too many good cooks out there and too much "luck" involved in blind judging of a subjective thing like BBQ to not be happy about a top 10.

The Cosmic Pig
08-22-2013, 07:37 AM
do you compete often? Because no one wins with any real consistency.

Even the teams that get auto to the jack cooked dozens of contests where they didnt win. I doubt any of them consider themselves a loser. Anytime I hear my name called, I feel better good about it.

Not often as of late. But I do a local contest every year at which I'm 4 out of 6 first place PP. I've never came in 2nd or 3rd in any category, though. Always first or nothing. Very strange! I guess I'm spoiled...

The Cosmic Pig
08-22-2013, 07:38 AM
Worst attitude.

Thank you!

fnbish
08-22-2013, 07:38 AM
Well, I have to admit I'm basically a perfectionist. I shoot for first and if I don't get it I feel like a loser! :crazy:

So how often do you feel like a loser? Legitimate question here.......how often are you "winning"? Which by your definition means coming in first place. To me there are the top athletes/competitors in their field who truly feel that there is no room for losing and it makes them very consistent at placing near the top and win. They actually won't win every time, but they win more than most. Then there are the folks who simply like to say the concept or like the idea of the concept of "if i'm not winning, i'm losing" because they think it is cool to say.

To me in competition bbq it seems like there are a fair amount of team that probably break even on expenses or even make a tad bit more than they put in. Then those teams probably take that extra money and put it right back into learning/practicing. But most don't make their money back 100%. So if you are chasing the dragon you might not ever catch it. Not saying you shouldn't strive for it. I am striving for it and want to do the best I can, but not there yet, but I also don't let it ruin my day when I don't hit it. But to each their own.

sitnfat
08-22-2013, 07:41 AM
I do it for the fun of it. I do it because I get to cook against and with the best in the country. I have given those checks back to the charity that was putting on the event. And if you are working your butt off to put out a good product you better step it up cause great BBQ is whats gonna get ya in the big money.

mobow
08-22-2013, 07:51 AM
I like to hear the names called out to 10 places a ribbon to go with it better a little cash is gravy. I want to be up the list as far as I can. If I can get my entry fee back and maybe the cost of half of my meat I consider it a break even day. The other cost are just the expense of entertainment for the weekend. Keith

The Cosmic Pig
08-22-2013, 07:55 AM
So how often do you feel like a loser? Legitimate question here.......how often are you "winning"? Which by your definition means coming in first place. To me there are the top athletes/competitors in their field who truly feel that there is no room for losing and it makes them very consistent at placing near the top and win. They actually won't win every time, but they win more than most. Then there are the folks who simply like to say the concept or like the idea of the concept of "if i'm not winning, i'm losing" because they think it is cool to say.

To me in competition bbq it seems like there are a fair amount of team that probably break even on expenses or even make a tad bit more than they put in. Then those teams probably take that extra money and put it right back into learning/practicing. But most don't make their money back 100%. So if you are chasing the dragon you might not ever catch it. Not saying you shouldn't strive for it. I am striving for it and want to do the best I can, but not there yet, but I also don't let it ruin my day when I don't hit it. But to each their own.

Well, I believe that statement was taken a bit too literal...I was half joking. Thus the :crazy: . But to answer your question, out of the dozen or so contests I've done I've had at least one first place trophy in 6 of them. And this for a total of about $10K. These are mostly local contests, but they still have some decent competitors in them. I am spoiled to a great degree, as I said. I have come to the point of expecting a call, and when I don't get it I am disappointed. But I don't bang my head against a tree or anything. I like to win, and I go to a lot of effort to win...so pay me! :heh:

The Cosmic Pig
08-22-2013, 07:59 AM
I like to hear the names called out to 10 places a ribbon to go with it better a little cash is gravy. I want to be up the list as far as I can. If I can get my entry fee back and maybe the cost of half of my meat I consider it a break even day. The other cost are just the expense of entertainment for the weekend. Keith

Great perspective! You've just altered mine! I like the way you think! :thumb:

Icekub
08-22-2013, 08:09 AM
For our team, we did our first comp last fall and had amazing luck to win 2/4 categories and 5th overall (damn you brisket!) Our first comp this year, we didn't get a call. We were pretty disappointed but said to my team "Do you want to continue doing these comps? B/C we will not win or have the results we did the 1st time, every time. If you still had fun this weekend, let's continue to get better" Everyone agreed that we still had fun and learned a few things and we continued. If you think you are going to win every time, you will be disappointed alot. It's also showing respect to your fellow competitors to realize that there will be many cooks w/ enough skill to get the best of you on a given day. I have yet to meet the unbeatable BBQ team.

smokinrack
08-22-2013, 08:29 AM
Being fairly new to comps I can honestly say that I think paying out to 10th does keep a lot of teams coming back myself included.Last year we did our first large comp with 60 teams, had no idea what we were doing and got our asses handed to us.Quite discouraging.

After spending way to much time on here and other sites I had a much better idea what to expect this year.We entered one with 22 teams first this year, got 4th in ribs, 3rd in chicken, and 7th overall. The total amount of money we won didnt cover the meat we bought. We did get three trophies though and had a good time doing it, and I will admitt getting called was a great feeling even if you arent in the top 3 and the trophies are something I will remember long after the moneys been spent:mrgreen:

fnbish
08-22-2013, 08:45 AM
Well, I believe that statement was taken a bit too literal...I was half joking. Thus the :crazy: . But to answer your question, out of the dozen or so contests I've done I've had at least one first place trophy in 6 of them. And this for a total of about $10K. These are mostly local contests, but they still have some decent competitors in them. I am spoiled to a great degree, as I said. I have come to the point of expecting a call, and when I don't get it I am disappointed. But I don't bang my head against a tree or anything. I like to win, and I go to a lot of effort to win...so pay me! :heh:

I guess that is a good point of what types of competitions you are talking about too. KCBS vs MBN vs IBCA can have a different payout structure and cost associated to it as well. You mentioned "local" so not sure if there is a sanctioning body associated, but type of contest is a variable.

Fat Freddy
08-22-2013, 08:50 AM
I hope I make sense with what I am about to say. Before the season started we set aside a specific amount of money to do competitions with. That was to cover entries,meats,gas etc.. I am a very small team that up to this year had 1 KCBS call.

First sanctioned contest we had our rear end handed to us, which is very easy when you have teams week in and week out like BigTz, Tippy Canoe, Smokey Ds, LuckysQ,A Boy and his BBQ, Pig Skin, Grills gone wild iowa, Swine Assasins, Smokers Purgatory etc etc etc..

The next contest we got our very first ever 2 call contest 7th and 8th in categories. I think we won like $60 but it was enough for my wife to say we could enter another contest, where we got a 1st place ribs($400 and a cool trophy)and 9th in pork. The winning allowed us to enter another couple of contests.

So what I am getting at is our winnings this year,less than $500, has allowed us to do more contests which in turn is helping us get better and getting more calls AND we have stayed within our original budget. But if Whiting(first 2 call contest) would not have paid down to 7th and 8th in categories we would have not been able to enter Mason City(1st place ribs).

kenthanson
08-22-2013, 08:50 AM
I like to hear the names called out to 10 places a ribbon to go with it better a little cash is gravy. I want to be up the list as far as I can. If I can get my entry fee back and maybe the cost of half of my meat I consider it a break even day. The other cost are just the expense of entertainment for the weekend. Keith

This is very close to my attitude, I don't mind paying the entry fee, that goes to help set everything up and have all the services in place I need so I don't mind paying that. My goal is to win back our meat money, if the team can pay off the meat than we are happy.

BB-Kuhn
08-22-2013, 09:00 AM
I like payouts for the lower positions, even if it is meager.

Some of us may never see the first 3 places, but it's cool to get your first payout with a 5th, 7th, etc. It's not about the money amount, but the fact you did in fact get a cash prize is fun. Good for morale.

I'd bet dropping the smaller prizes for the lower calls could decrease enthusiasm a tad, and hurt the scene overall with lower attendance.

The Cosmic Pig
08-22-2013, 09:54 AM
To a great degree a lot of you have changed my perspective on the payouts, and it's obvious the majority likes it the way it is. Thank you all for taking the time to give me your take! As Emily Litella used to say...nevermind! :-D

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
08-22-2013, 11:02 AM
Bling a ribbon? I thought you said Pabst Blue Ribbon...:wink:

wallace

I have been known to say all kinds of crazy stuff..

Muzzlebrake
08-22-2013, 11:13 AM
I understand wanting to spread the money around, what I don't understand is why it isn't done for those that have accomplished the most. The resources used to pay 6-10 in each category if pooled together and used to pay 3-10 overall would make for a nice reward for those that have accomplished the most during that contest. If you think $50 bucks for placing 8th in chicken is a morale booster, what effect do you think a $200 check for 8th overall would have? When I enter a contest my gol is to win the contest, not win a category. First place chicken, ribs, pork or brisket doesn't get you to the Royal or the Jack, GC's do.

Earlier this year at the contest in DC, with the additional sponsors money finishing in the top 3 in any category was worth $1k+. Meanwhile finishing RGC paid nothing. I had 2 top 5 calls that weekend and walked away with more the $1500. They guy who finished 2nd overall got a free entry into next years contest and I don't think he even got a trophy. To me there is just something fundamentally flawed about that.

DawgPhan
08-22-2013, 11:47 AM
I guess that is a good point of what types of competitions you are talking about too. KCBS vs MBN vs IBCA can have a different payout structure and cost associated to it as well. You mentioned "local" so not sure if there is a sanctioning body associated, but type of contest is a variable.


the truth eventually came out...he is cooking local backyard events. the level of competition he is basing his "not first you're last" on isnt even in the ballpark of the level that we are used to competing at.

I would agree...if I didnt win a category in a local backyard event I would feel pretty bad. But I think it would be rather tacky for me to compete seriously in a backyard event, so I don't.

kenthanson
08-22-2013, 12:15 PM
Earlier this year at the contest in DC, with the additional sponsors money finishing in the top 3 in any category was worth $1k+. Meanwhile finishing RGC paid nothing. I had 2 top 5 calls that weekend and walked away with more the $1500. They guy who finished 2nd overall got a free entry into next years contest and I don't think he even got a trophy. To me there is just something fundamentally flawed about that.

Well that's obviously not right but there needs to be a balance. 1-5 overall sounds good, 1-5 in each category sounds good, with any extra money going to pay out more per category.

The Cosmic Pig
08-22-2013, 12:26 PM
the truth eventually came out...he is cooking local backyard events. the level of competition he is basing his "not first you're last" on isnt even in the ballpark of the level that we are used to competing at.

I would agree...if I didnt win a category in a local backyard event I would feel pretty bad. But I think it would be rather tacky for me to compete seriously in a backyard event, so I don't.

"The truth came out?" I wasn't trying to hide anything from anyone. The "local events" I am speaking of usually have several teams that do well at KCBS events. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, but I'm offended. Just because an event is not sanctioned doesn't mean that the competitors are backyarders - or some lower class of cook than you obviously think you are. "Not even in the ballpark?" What's tacky is your opinion of yourself and your comment. While I've disagreed with some on here, I've not insulted a single person in the process like you did me. I'd like to say more, but I'm really trying to live like the Christian I claim to be.

kenthanson
08-22-2013, 12:47 PM
Based on this conversation I went to look at the PNWBA rules about payouts and found this...

PRIZE MONEY
The Pacific Northwest BBQ Association does not procure prize money for events. You must have a
guaranteed source and amount of prize money 70 days prior to the event for us to proceed with
scheduling and advertising your event. The PNWBA will not continue to sanction the event without this
prize money guarantee.
Prize money at a standard full event cook ranges from $2,000 to $35,000 with the current average
settling at about $5,000. This total prize pool pays out each of the four categories to a minimum of 6th
place, plus a Reserve Grand Champion and Grand Champion. For competitions with more than 30 teams
there is also a Reserve Champion (3rd place). Sample pay out schedules can be provided on request

Guess I gotta inquire with the BOD as to why a contest only paid top 3 in each category, or maybe this is one of those "loose" rules.

sdbbq1234
08-22-2013, 01:05 PM
I with some other folks here, in that I know what I am getting into before I send the entry fee in. Here in the Mid-Atlantic area, I am competing against some of the best teams out there. Aporkalypse Now, 3Eyz, 4:20, Chix, Swine and Bovine, Hawg Nation, Checkered Flag 500, etc...

I know I am up against a big hill to climb and the chance of me winning cash is slim when it pays out to only 5th place.

As we have competed in 8 comps now, we are getting better. We also only cook 1 brisket, usually only 1 butt, 2 racks of ribs, and 18-24 pieces of chick. So, that narrows our chances down even further.

But, also, competing against the BIG names, only cooking small amounts of food, forces us to do better!

It also nice to hear you name, and even nicer to get some cash (even $25.00) against all the odds.

wallace

Wager
08-22-2013, 01:56 PM
Money isn't a consideration for me since I just figure it is the cost of having a fun weekend. I just like having the trophies so I wish they had those for the top ten places. my wife just takes the money I win anyway.

columbia1
08-22-2013, 04:03 PM
Based on this conversation I went to look at the PNWBA rules about payouts and found this...

PRIZE MONEY
The Pacific Northwest BBQ Association does not procure prize money for events. You must have a
guaranteed source and amount of prize money 70 days prior to the event for us to proceed with
scheduling and advertising your event. The PNWBA will not continue to sanction the event without this
prize money guarantee.
Prize money at a standard full event cook ranges from $2,000 to $35,000 with the current average
settling at about $5,000. This total prize pool pays out each of the four categories to a minimum of 6th
place, plus a Reserve Grand Champion and Grand Champion. For competitions with more than 30 teams
there is also a Reserve Champion (3rd place). Sample pay out schedules can be provided on request

Guess I gotta inquire with the BOD as to why a contest only paid top 3 in each category, or maybe this is one of those "loose" rules.

There are two different programs in the PNWBA, basic and inclusive. Under the basic program the numbers are only provided for guidance as we have no control on how the organizer sets the payout schedule, it is their money. Under the inclusive events we do have a formula we use to set payouts.
(BTW, I am a board member)

SerialGriller
08-22-2013, 08:24 PM
Great topic!.. My opinion has always been that top 10 teams should get called no matter what size or prize of the contest...(top 15 called over 75+/) regardless of payout. KCBS should give all organizers some type of ribbon, certificate, card, sticker etc. for the top 10 teams or at least the teams that finish top ten that don't get paid. That call can be all the difference in growing the sport and memberships. I Hope the KCBS board brings this (long
over due) topic up for discussion and a vote!! : )