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View Full Version : One day cooks now "Jack" qualifiers...


JD McGee
08-18-2013, 11:54 AM
From the PNWBA forum...:tsk:

AT 15 TEAMS THIS IS A QUALIFIER FOR THE JACK DRAW!!!!


Registration is up! Entry fee is only $50.
http://canadaq.ca/events/north-surrey-bbq/ (http://canadaq.ca/events/north-surrey-bbq/)
This is a FUN family friendly event and a great place for a brand new team to dip their feet in the pool!

This year at this "winner takes all" event the auto mall is giving away a 1 year lease on a 2013 car OR $3000.00 cash. We have great trophies and ribbons for each category and prizes will also be awarded for "People's Choice"

Sunday August 25th - 1 day lite cook

All 4 meat categories make up the GC points;
-Chicken
-Sausage
-Ribs
-Tri Tip
Salsa(optional)
Dessert (optional)

Scottie
08-18-2013, 01:56 PM
Why is that any different than NEBS grilling contests and those aren't Jack bids?

Smokedelic
08-18-2013, 05:50 PM
I wouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.:thumb:

JD McGee
08-18-2013, 09:05 PM
I wouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.:thumb:
I don't post rumors...
https://www.facebook.com/PNWBA/posts/561191730614246?comment_id=83344640&offset=0&total_comments=5&notif_t=feed_comment_reply

Smoke'n Ice
08-18-2013, 09:09 PM
Actually, if I recall correctly, there is at least one, and maybe more, contest in the PNWBA that are grandfathered in for both the Royal and Jack as there are in KCBS. They don't meet the criterial for today but, in the late 80's and early 90's they did and, as long as they continue with the same venue and format, they are considered qualifiers.

JD McGee
08-18-2013, 09:10 PM
Folks can believe what they want...what I posted is from the PNWBA forum...not something I made up for laughs. These new rules have cheapened the tradition of the Jack in my eyes...:tsk:

Rustys BBQ
08-18-2013, 09:41 PM
Just to back up John here. Yes you can get a Jack bung while winning a one day cook off in a contest with only 10 competitors if its the first year of the comp in canada. Worse thing is the top canadian Also gets a bung so in theory if an american wins 1st out of ten then the next placing canadian gets one too. 2 bungs given out of ten competitors. And in the case of the one that was dispute corn was a category. I was in this competition so I know

CBQ
08-18-2013, 10:02 PM
Why is that any different than NEBS grilling contests and those aren't Jack bids?

I think NEBS is pretty much there if they had an event with pork, chicken, and beef categories. Probably a lot more likely to be all pro teams too. This CA one is clearly being promoted as a backyard event.

Maybe next year NEBS can have a "Shake and Bake" grilling event giving teams 2 shots at the Jack in one weekend. :becky:

bigdogphin
08-18-2013, 10:18 PM
I saw them cook sausage and tri tip on BBQ pitmasters so it must be legit!

big matt
08-19-2013, 08:08 AM
I think this kind of contest is a slap in the face to real competitions as far as being a Jack draw..it also opens the door for this type of thing to happen everywhere..it's simply not fair to the teams that work hard week in week out throughout the year..to me it's giving a draw to a team that shouldn't have one in the first place.

Funtimebbq
08-19-2013, 09:11 AM
I agree with you Matt. However, many IBCA contests can be considered a one day cook also if a team uses a brisket flat. If I remember correctly, the JD rules only say beef, they do not specify what cut of beef. That makes tri-tip legal as long as the sanctioning body and team count are recognized by the JD. The change in language has to come from the JD folks otherwise this will become a regular type of contest just to get a bung. But you are correct, it doesn't seem right to all the other teams who cook all 4 meats.

JD McGee
08-19-2013, 09:28 AM
I agree with you Matt. However, many IBCA contests can be considered a one day cook also if a team uses a brisket flat. If I remember correctly, the JD rules only say beef, they do not specify what cut of beef. That makes tri-tip legal as long as the sanctioning body and team count are recognized by the JD. The change in language has to come from the JD folks otherwise this will become a regular type of contest just to get a bung. But you are correct, it doesn't seem right to all the other teams who cook all 4 meats.

Yep...pretty sad...I can see it now...hamburgers (beef), hotdogs (pork) and wings (chicken) for a trip to the Jack! :crazy:

Iamarealbigdog
08-19-2013, 12:40 PM
Yep...pretty sad...I can see it now...hamburgers (beef), hotdogs (pork) and wings (chicken) for a trip to the Jack! :crazy:


Unfortunately, under the new rules for international events, this appears to qualify.

It is not what we have come to know as "Jack Material" but it is what it is...


Interesting to see how this plays out for a draw ticket

FattyMac
08-19-2013, 02:11 PM
Disheartening to say the least that the winner of this could be representing Canada versus some one who cooked all 4 meats at a KCBS (or similar) contest.

Makes me think I'm wasting my time and money competing in NY state against 25-50 very good teams.

JD McGee
08-19-2013, 02:21 PM
Disheartening to say the least that the winner of this could be representing Canada versus some one who cooked all 4 meats at a KCBS (or similar) contest.

Makes me think I'm wasting my time and money competing in NY state against 25-50 very good teams.

Not necessarily Canada...a lot of US teams compete there and could win a bung for their home state with a GC.

Slamdunkpro
08-19-2013, 02:36 PM
Yep...pretty sad...I can see it now...hamburgers (beef), hotdogs (pork) and wings (chicken) for a trip to the Jack! :crazy:
They'll need a bigger barrel when this gets going and there are 100+ teams from 40+ States winning "qualifiers"

big matt
08-19-2013, 04:35 PM
They'll need a bigger barrel when this gets going and there are 100+ teams from 40+ States winning "qualifiers"

I agree..to me it's like the contests that have 20 teams on Friday but magically they get 25 on Saturday..pure bull$@it IMO

landarc
08-19-2013, 07:36 PM
Perhaps Canada should not be considered International. I can't see any reason that Canada can't compete under the same set of rules as teams from the USA.

landarc
08-19-2013, 07:37 PM
I have a chance with the new 'Shake and Bake' qualifiers, that was a great idea CBQ

JD McGee
08-19-2013, 09:29 PM
Perhaps Canada should not be considered International. I can't see any reason that Canada can't compete under the same set of rules as teams from the USA.

Me either...it's not like they're a foreign country or something...:twitch:

Rustys BBQ
08-19-2013, 10:16 PM
Canada doesnt need a seperate set of rules. Maybe have the country be like an american state as far as the draw goes. The weird part is this isnt a region that needs more qualifiers. We have 5 events all in the lower mainland of Vancouver BC that are +25 team qualifiers and a lot more just overthe border in washington. This one was 12 or 13 teams but is an equal draw. Lots of the teams are a mix of bith countries that travel between oregon, washington, and BC. Some alberta, montana, idaho teams as well.

landarc
08-20-2013, 12:35 AM
Me either...it's not like they're a foreign country or something...:twitch:
I have been a long time advocate of offering Canada the chance to join the USA, or we invade them. Either way, until then...

Make them compete with the same rules as everyone else does.

esselle
08-20-2013, 06:47 AM
The more you get to know about rules for qualfying for the jack the more confusing it all gets, but as everyone always says 'the jack is the jack and it's their party their rules.

Ron_L
08-20-2013, 06:52 AM
http://www.chinahearsay.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/blame-canada.jpg



Just kidding!

As has been mentioned, it's the Jack's rules. Maybe some well written e-mails to them would get noticed, but they can do what they want.

CBQ
08-20-2013, 07:42 AM
Not even sure how the rules work if a Canadian team wins in the US. Lots of good teams in the northeast ("Can't Stop Grilling", "DivaQ") cook over the border on a regular basis and are capable of winning a real US qualifier. DivaQ is now cooking all over the US with Danielle's new show. She is particularly dangerous in the NEBS style grilling contests. If those happen to have pork, chicken, and beef they could count.

What happens when a Canadian team wins a US qualifier? Are they in the US draw or still an international team? If it doesn't qualify them for the US draw, does it count as an international win?

When French speaking Quebec secedes from Canada, the US will annex the remaining 9 provinces as states 51-59 anyway, solving the problem. :becky:

esselle
08-20-2013, 08:05 AM
Not even sure how the rules work if a Canadian team wins in the US. Lots of good teams in the northeast ("Can't Stop Grilling", "DivaQ") cook over the border on a regular basis and are capable of winning a real US qualifier. DivaQ is now cooking all over the US with Danielle's new show. She is particularly dangerous in the NEBS style grilling contests. If those happen to have pork, chicken, and beef they could count.

What happens when a Canadian team wins a US qualifier? Are they in the US draw or still an international team? If it doesn't qualify them for the US draw, does it count as an international win?

When French speaking Quebec secedes from Canada, the US will annex the remaining 9 provinces as states 51-59 anyway, solving the problem. :becky:
Well if it's the same as it is for U.K. teams, we have been informed that if we were to win a U.S. qualifier it would give us a bung in the U.K. draw and the next placed U.S. team would get the U.S. jack draw.

Funtimebbq
08-20-2013, 08:11 AM
The sanctioning body is complicit in this also. Without a recognized sanctioning body giving their approval for this type of contest there would not be any issue with the JD rules.

Iamarealbigdog
08-20-2013, 09:05 AM
The last time we collectively came down to the US, the Canadians had a BBQ at the Whitehouse, it got a little out of hand and it seems that we have never been invited back.

To answer the question if an American wins a Jack qualified event in Canada, they will get a bung in their home state. If a Canadian wins a GC in the US they get a bung for the Canadian Draw.

We are limited to 3 draw tickets for all of Canada.

Rustys BBQ
08-20-2013, 10:21 AM
I have been a long time advocate of offering Canada the chance to join the USA, or we invade them. Either way, until then...

Make them compete with the same rules as everyone else does.


Like I said before I think we don't need special rules up here but as for invading. You guys already tried....didn't work. Then we marched down and burned down the white house.:boxing:

Rustys BBQ
08-20-2013, 10:23 AM
The last time we collectively came down to the US, the Canadians had a BBQ at the Whitehouse, it got a little out of hand and it seems that we have never been invited back.

To answer the question if an American wins a Jack qualified event in Canada, they will get a bung in their home state. If a Canadian wins a GC in the US they get a bung for the Canadian Draw.

We are limited to 3 draw tickets for all of Canada.

whoops I didn't realize I copied your retort.

Slamdunkpro
08-20-2013, 11:01 AM
The sanctioning body is complicit in this also. Without a recognized sanctioning body giving their approval for this type of contest there would not be any issue with the JD rules.
There is no sanctioning body requirement for the Jack, only for the Royal.

bigdogphin
08-20-2013, 05:49 PM
The sanctioning body is complicit in this also. Without a recognized sanctioning body giving their approval for this type of contest there would not be any issue with the JD rules.

Actually the Pnwba sanctioned these contests as one day light cooks. More to get the ball rolling with a venue to get them to a two day cook next year. These contests are also looked at at attracting new cooks who are not ready for the full two day event. Typically these contests are tri-tip (beef), sausage, pork ribs, and chicken... Sometimes the sausage is substituted with salmon or some other category. These were not sanctioned to be qualifiers

In August the Jack notified us that these qualified under their rules. Providing that they meet the minimum team requirements and for American contests they had to have a governors proclamation which we have not pursued. Canadian events don't need a proclamation therefore the are qualifiers according to the Jack and rules for Canada.

swamprb
08-20-2013, 07:05 PM
I just hope that all this can be resolved peacefully like the Pig War of 1859!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War#The_pig

On the morning of June 15, 1859 an American settler named Lyman Cutlar shot and killed a pig belonging to the Hudson's Bay Company, as it was rooting in his garden. When Cutlar refused to pay for the pig Charles Griffin, the farm's manager demanded his arrest. The other Americans on San Juan sent a petition to Brigadier General William S. Harney the anti-British commander of the Department of Oregon. Harney was regarded by many as something of a hothead.[3] Harney responded by sending troops from the Ninth Infantry under the command of George Pickett to San Juan Island. Pickett arrived there on July 27th.[4]

In the meantime James Douglas, Governor of the Crown Colony of British Columbia dispatched a naval force to protect British interest, although he was angry over the situation he ordered Captain Geoffrey Hornby to avoid armed conflict if possible. Hornby wisely decided not to take too much action until is superior, Rear Admiral Robert L. Baynes arrived. When Baynes arrived on the scene he was shocked to find that the two countries were about to go to war over a pig.[5

Have a drink!

didisea
08-20-2013, 07:15 PM
The issue here overall, is not Canadian rules and teams vs. US rules and teams. The essence of the issue is that the Jack chose to allow these contests to be qualifiers for the Jack draw after the fact of the contest. Had teams known this before the contests were executed, they might have made different choices.

As for what the PNWBA choses to do as far as pursuing the proclamations, it does not seem fair to allow the Canadian contest teams who won to receive bungs for the draw, and not pursue the proclamations for the (one contest in Idaho?) US competitions that would qualify.

Hopefully at the beginning of next year it will be clarified for us all so that we are all in understand of the Jack draw rules. It would be nice if we were all in understanding of the rules BEFORE the season begins.

didisea
08-20-2013, 07:22 PM
General Henry Robert, author of "Roberts Rules of Order," was in the US Army Engineers as a Lieutenant at the time, and designed the defenses of the American Camp during the Pig War.

Hopefully parliamentary procedure will rule the day to bring a peaceful end to this conundrum.

Oh wait, its the Jack, their rules and their contest, never clear as mud.

Hawg Father of Seoul
08-21-2013, 05:22 AM
I agree with you Matt. However, many IBCA contests can be considered a one day cook also if a team uses a brisket flat. If I remember correctly, the JD rules only say beef, they do not specify what cut of beef. That makes tri-tip legal as long as the sanctioning body and team count are recognized by the JD. The change in language has to come from the JD folks otherwise this will become a regular type of contest just to get a bung. But you are correct, it doesn't seem right to all the other teams who cook all 4 meats.

Why drag IBCA in to this? Do you really think it takes longer to cook a pork butt than a brisket?

Funtimebbq
08-21-2013, 08:49 AM
To show that the JD has been accepting 3 meat contests for years. Nothing more, nothing less.

Depends on the size of the meats. A flat will cook faster than a butt IMO. But that had nothing to do with my post.

Hawg Father of Seoul
08-21-2013, 11:42 AM
Cool. It was the "one day cook" statement. My point was that it is no more "one day" than KCBS.

JD McGee
08-21-2013, 01:20 PM
The PNWBA BOD has invited me to voice my opinion on this matter at their meeting tomorrow evening. I do not get a vote...but if I did I would vote NO for pursuing proclamations for one day events in the USA!

Crash
08-21-2013, 01:24 PM
*Deleted* Off topic.

kenthanson
08-21-2013, 05:39 PM
I think as well as giving spots to cooks who might not be jack caliber it will also hurt the cooks who are looking at using the one day lites to transition into 2 day cooks. The perception for the 1 days is that they are for up and comers, people getting their feet wet, but if a jack invite might be on the line than the big guns are gonna come out full force and drive these new teams down to the bottom of the standings which will lead to them not having fun and not competing in the full cooks. Just a thought.

landarc
08-21-2013, 05:49 PM
I see your point Ken, but, I am not sure I can totally agree with it. At least here in California, most of the big teams mean to compete at KCBS events and mean to do it to get the points and play by those rules. I would venture that the best teams in Cali are more focused on that, then just getting into the Jack.

kenthanson
08-21-2013, 05:57 PM
But what if the one day lite didn't interfere with any other contests? Locally we have a contest in the beginning of July and than first and second weekends in August, if a one day lite was run in middle of July with a chance for a bung for sure we would do it.

BBQchef33
08-21-2013, 06:02 PM
i have mixed feelings about this....heres one side... gotta go to dinner.. so other side later..


one day cook??.. WTF.. teams now put briskets and butts into hot jambos at 4-5AM and they are done at 11. Thats a one day cook too. As a competitive cook, whats the difference if you go to the jack and cook against the weekend warrior who won the one day event cooking a tri tip or rib eye.. The field is level when u get there and your challenge is to beat everyone whos competing, regardless of how they got there.

I personally dont get the Jack Mystique.. its not the best of the best, thats the American Royal Invitational where your cooking against ALL the GC's in the country..

The Jack, you cook against a subset, The "luckiest" of the best. Been there 3 times, nice event, notched the belt, and probably wont go back.. I'll stick with the Royal.

landarc
08-21-2013, 06:03 PM
Well, you live in Saskatchewan (for the record, I almost spelled that right without looking it up, I would have sworn it was Sasquatchewan). So I see your point.

JD McGee
08-23-2013, 12:19 PM
i have mixed feelings about this....heres one side... gotta go to dinner.. so other side later..


one day cook??.. WTF.. teams now put briskets and butts into hot jambos at 4-5AM and they are done at 11. Thats a one day cook too. As a competitive cook, whats the difference if you go to the jack and cook against the weekend warrior who won the one day event cooking a tri tip or rib eye.. The field is level when u get there and your challenge is to beat everyone whos competing, regardless of how they got there.

I personally dont get the Jack Mystique.. its not the best of the best, thats the American Royal Invitational where your cooking against ALL the GC's in the country..

The Jack, you cook against a subset, The "luckiest" of the best. Been there 3 times, nice event, notched the belt, and probably wont go back.. I'll stick with the Royal.
I am just the opposite...I prefer the intimacy and tradition of The Jack as opposed to the crazy party scene at The Royal. As far as the level of talent at The Jack...all those "lucky" teams had to win GC's to get there...same as the Royal invitational...:boxing:

CBQ
08-23-2013, 01:00 PM
I see your point Ken, but, I am not sure I can totally agree with it. At least here in California, most of the big teams mean to compete at KCBS events and mean to do it to get the points and play by those rules. I would venture that the best teams in Cali are more focused on that, then just getting into the Jack.

I think there is a regional element to what teams are trying to accomplish.

To win KCBS TOY, you need to plan on cooking 30 events. In the northeast, our season is just to short to attempt that, so the focus is on qualification for the Jack. (It's also a 2 day drive for us to get to the Jack, not the case for California teams.)

We have two Jack World Champions in NEBSland, and no TOY winners. It's not a coincidence.

The NEBS team I Smell Smoke!!! made a run at TOY in 2009, finishing second behind Pellet Envy. They had to cook a ton of southern contests to do it, which most of us can't do. Even ISS did it as a one time thing to see if they could.

The Jack, you cook against a subset, The "luckiest" of the best. Been there 3 times, nice event, notched the belt, and probably wont go back.. I'll stick with the Royal.

True enough about The Jack vs. The Royal, but I think Phil's in the minority for the frozen north. As evidenced by other threads, most teams around here do the Royal once, and then cook The Jack, including ZBQ. Smoke on the Water seems to know that, scheduling a major big money event on the same weekend as The Royal. Most of the GC winners I have talked to are cooking Atlanta City instead.

BBQchef33
08-23-2013, 10:48 PM
I'm defknatly in the mi Kristy. I just like the royal. probably because I get to see EVERYONE i dont see all year, where the jack is much smaller.


JD... my comment about 'the luckiest of the best' was refering to winning the draw. The royal is ALL GC. THe jack is the GC who lucked out an got the bunv pulled.