PDA

View Full Version : Appearance Scoring: How long do judges look at it?


Q-Dat
08-13-2013, 09:41 PM
Just curious how many seconds the judges typically look at a box before giving an appearance score. Also does each judge get their own turn to look it over, or does everyon look it over together?

Answers from all sanctioning bodies are welcome but mostly wondering about KCBS and IBCA. Thanks.

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
08-13-2013, 09:45 PM
In KCBS, the table captain passes it before each judge until the judge indicates that he/she has has seen it long enough. Probably averages no more than 10-15 seconds.

Slamdunkpro
08-13-2013, 09:54 PM
Probably averages no more than 10-15 seconds.
More like 4-5 seconds.

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
08-13-2013, 09:59 PM
More like 4-5 seconds.

Yeah, I think that is closer.

Uncle Buds BBQ
08-13-2013, 10:01 PM
I have judged 3 and TC'ed 5 KCBS contests this year and the average time for each judge is 4 seconds. I know because I have timed it.

Q-Dat
08-13-2013, 10:25 PM
I have judged 3 and TC'ed 5 KCBS contests this year and the average time for each judge is 4 seconds. I know because I have timed it.

I am glad to hear this and think its a good thing that judges don't get a bunch of time to look for every out of place thing that they can find. If a judge uses their 4-5 seconds to look for minor cosmetic imperfections instead of deciding how appetizing the meat looks then shame on them. I doubt this happens much because it seems that the criticisms found on BBQCRITIC seem to be more extreme than what happens in a real time setting.

bbq.tom
08-14-2013, 06:40 AM
KCBS = 4-5 seconds with the box being presented before each judge by the Table Captain.

MBN = 10-15 seconds (longer if necessary) with the boxes being open in the middle of the table and the judges moving around (if necessary) to get a good look at the boxes.

NCBS = similar to KCBS.

I hope this helps!

bignburlyman
08-14-2013, 07:13 AM
I usually start looking as the box is being presented down the table, I look at the sides as it is shown to the judge next to me then I am looking straight down as the table captain reaches me. I probably look at each box for about 10 seconds, 4 to 5 while in front of me. I never even look at the garnish or the box lid or for sauce on the side of the box, I only look at the meat. Now if the meat is buried in the garnish then I have to look at it and try to score around the garnish.

Ford
08-14-2013, 07:21 AM
They actually look? Just kidding, couldn't resist.

deguerre
08-14-2013, 07:53 AM
Just curious how many seconds the judges typically look at a box before giving an appearance score. Also does each judge get their own turn to look it over, or does everyon look it over together?

Answers from all sanctioning bodies are welcome but mostly wondering about KCBS and IBCA. Thanks.

If it's yours, they stare at it for hours, absolutely dumbstruck, scratching their heads, kinda staring...


































:-P


:wink:

Arlin_MacRae
08-14-2013, 09:31 AM
I usually start looking as the box is being presented down the table, I look at the sides as it is shown to the judge next to me then I am looking straight down as the table captain reaches me. I probably look at each box for about 10 seconds, 4 to 5 while in front of me. I never even look at the garnish or the box lid or for sauce on the side of the box, I only look at the meat. Now if the meat is buried in the garnish then I have to look at it and try to score around the garnish.
I try to keep an eye on the box the whole time the Table Captain is presenting it, like bignburlyman does, and it's about ten seconds.
I do look at garnish, however, only because there are some types that are illegal. I don't look at it hard, though, because the meat should get most of the judge's attention, IMO.
So have you KCBS judges ever wondered why there is illegal garnish if you can't JUDGE the garnish? I have! :laugh:

Podge
08-14-2013, 10:01 AM
4-5 seconds is a long damn time!!!.. count to 5 looking at your entry.. you can see a lot!

ITBFQ
08-14-2013, 10:08 AM
When I judge, I usually do the same as a couple mentioned above - start looking as the TC passes it around the table, and spend 4-5 seconds looking at it when the box is in front of me. I also judge on bbqcritic, and try to only spend that same amount of time when scoring. Now, when it comes to the comments/suggestions on bbqcritic - the part where you can comment on things that don't affect your score - I may take another longer look and offer a couple suggestions. As we all know, paying attention to detail matters. This has all helped me in practice and at the one backyard comp I have done.

early mornin' smokin'
08-14-2013, 10:18 AM
first off, i'm not a certified judge, nor have I judged a contest. But first impressions are everything and my guess is every judge has their number picked within the first 2 seconds of having the box opened in front of them. Count 4 mississippi's in your head and it's a long time.

Q-Dat
08-15-2013, 06:51 AM
If it's yours, they stare at it for hours, absolutely dumbstruck, scratching their heads, kinda staring...


































:-P


:wink:

In confusion?..............or in AWE!?!?!?

Lake Dogs
08-15-2013, 06:54 AM
So have you KCBS judges ever wondered why there is illegal garnish if you can't JUDGE the garnish? I have! :laugh:

Careful; you're using LOGIC!!!!

CBQ
08-15-2013, 07:27 AM
They actually look? Just kidding, couldn't resist.

Well, they have to figure out how much space it will take in their cooler. :becky:

ModelMaker
08-15-2013, 07:27 AM
I try to keep an eye on the box the whole time the Table Captain is presenting it, like bignburlyman does, and it's about ten seconds.
I do look at garnish, however, only because there are some types that are illegal. I don't look at it hard, though, because the meat should get most of the judge's attention, IMO.
So have you KCBS judges ever wondered why there is illegal garnish if you can't JUDGE the garnish? I have! :laugh:

There is illegal garnish because that's their rules.
The rule is "Garnish is optional, if used, once determind it is legal it has no
further role in the appearence scoring"
Ed

deguerre
08-15-2013, 07:54 AM
Careful; you're using LOGIC!!!!

Logic and MacRae are like oil and water...

Muzzlebrake
08-15-2013, 09:13 AM
first off, i'm not a certified judge, nor have I judged a contest. But first impressions are everything and my guess is every judge has their number picked within the first 2 seconds of having the box opened in front of them. Count 4 mississippi's in your head and it's a long time.

I couldn't disagree more. First the box isn't opened in front of every judge. Every time I have judged, the TC kept the box in front of me until if looked up at him after I'm done with the box, probably 3-5 seconds. I also made a point to watch as it moved away from me as well when it was coming towards me before I entered my score.

A judge that takes a fleeting glimpse and scores from a first impression is not doing justice to the process and IMO is probably very inexperienced.

Muzzlebrake
08-15-2013, 09:16 AM
So have you KCBS judges ever wondered why there is illegal garnish if you can't JUDGE the garnish? I have! :laugh:

Or as a cook wondered why you can get DQ'd for for something that isn't judged?
:becky:

Uomograsso
08-15-2013, 04:34 PM
My style is pretty much as others have stated. TC opens the box and starts on left end or right end of table and moves along. Most judges will look at the box and then nod at the TC when they have seen it long enough, which is usually about 3-5 seconds. They will also what the box as it moves around the table so they can get side views, etc. So counting 3-5 seconds per judge, 6 judges would be 18 to 30 seconds open in front of the table.

When I judge appearance I have a number that pops into my minds when I first see the box. Then I look to see if there is anything that might adjust that number, i.e. uneven color, size, sauce, etc. Does it look like the team took time to make the box look nice, is there attention to detail. Is the issue caused by the transport to the table, etc. Then I try to determine how much to adjust the score. Minor issues might not drop it at all. Major issues might bring it down a point or two. I usually take a little bit longer than most judges at about 8 to 10 seconds with the box in front of me. I could sit there an analyze it for a minute, but that probably wouldn't change the score I give much.

Bentley
08-15-2013, 04:50 PM
In 11 years of being a CBJ and once in awhile TC...this is spot on.

More like 4-5 seconds.