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Tack
07-07-2013, 06:18 PM
While I know that you can pre-trim meats at home for comps, is it legal to apply meat glue to chicken skins at home? Just want to make sure before I make a run of 6 hours to a comp just to have to buy and trim more chicken. Gawd I HATE that job:biggrin1:

Scottie
07-07-2013, 06:28 PM
I would say iilegal.

Tack
07-07-2013, 06:36 PM
Just wondering why you think its illegal?? It has no flavor and adds none to the meat and does not tenderize the meat in any way.

White Dog BBQ
07-07-2013, 06:46 PM
Just wondering why you think its illegal?? It has no flavor and adds none to the meat and does not tenderize the meat in any way.

I agree with Scottie -- Rule 6 says that "All competition meat shall start out raw. No pre-seasoned meat is allowed other than manufacturer enhanced or injected products..." I don't think the meat continues in the "raw" state once you add something to it, notwithstanding whether it tenderizes or imparts flavor.

Also, while I haven't used meat glue (too expensive for experimentation, and we've done well enough in chicken without it), I have heard some people say they can taste a flavor, and more importantly, since it does cause a bonding of the meat and skin, it has to have some (perhaps imperceptible) effect on the structure of the meat.

sitnfat
07-07-2013, 06:48 PM
You can take away not add before meat inspection.

Funtimebbq
07-07-2013, 06:56 PM
Here is language from KCBS rule 7.

All competition meat shall start out raw. No pre-seasoned meat
is allowed other than manufacturer enhanced or injected
products, as shown on label...

Can the glue product be found on the label?

Still not convinced, contact KCBS for your official answer and make sure you take that written response with you to show the reps. at whatever contest you attend.

pigmaker23
07-07-2013, 07:20 PM
Would not risk it, also you really can't season the chicken first if you have glued the skin on.. Just sayin...

landarc
07-07-2013, 08:10 PM
It isn't likely necessary to do this at home, if you choose to use it. It will bond in 4 to 6 hours, so depending on how you schedule your cook, it should not be a problem, to glue the skins on at the comp, just do it shortly after you get inspected.

There are different grades of transglutaminase, I suspect that some are more pure than others. When used on meat, it should be indetectable, as it is a meat product.

Tack
07-07-2013, 08:31 PM
Well I put my question to the KCBS so now I wait for the answer.

SmokinJohn
07-07-2013, 08:36 PM
The noob is thinking this: WHY are you using it? Are you trying to get a bite-through skin? If so, it's illegal. Are you trying to keep the skin on and not split/crack/fall off? Illegal.

I think you know the answer already :)

RangerJ
07-07-2013, 09:16 PM
Here is language from KCBS rule 7.

All competition meat shall start out raw. No pre-seasoned meat
is allowed other than manufacturer enhanced or injected
products, as shown on label...

Can the glue product be found on the label?

Still not convinced, contact KCBS for your official answer and make sure you take that written response with you to show the reps. at whatever contest you attend.


^^^ This.

And why would you anyway? Chicken takes the least amount of time to cook, if your at the cooks meeting, seems you'd have time to do whatever you want.

Tack
07-07-2013, 09:17 PM
it is not illegal to use meat glue to hold the skin on.

nthole
07-07-2013, 09:26 PM
Sigh. This is what we've come to. Years ago people were trying to make the best bbq out of normal meat that they could. Now we glue the skins to the meat.

Tack
07-07-2013, 09:32 PM
Hey I would be happy cooking the meat the way it comes but try that at a contest and for sure you will not walk. I am not saying this is the best answer but its something I am playing with and I want to get all the info that I can.

nthole
07-07-2013, 09:36 PM
No, I get it. I'd guess illegal.

And for the record, I've walked with 'normal' chicken. But, then not nearly as consistently as those who do all sorts of crazy things. Good luck to you!

Tack
07-07-2013, 09:38 PM
When I get an answer from KCBS I will post it here.

walrus79
07-07-2013, 10:12 PM
Meat glue is not illegal. I'm pretty certain it is illegal to apply before meat inspection. I'm also pretty certain, at least in the East that no rep is ever going to inspect your chicken close enough to tell if you applied meat glue prior to, so it's more of an integrity thing.

From what I've heard around the "camp fire" meat glue sets up immediately, so if you do it onsite, it'd be fine. I've tasted chicken with meat glue and it has absolutely no taste.

rookiedad
07-07-2013, 10:43 PM
Sigh. This is what we've come to. Years ago people were trying to make the best bbq out of normal meat that they could. Now we glue the skins to the meat.
it would be nice if the judging rewarded that, wouldn't it? what i wan't to know is, is there a way that great bbqers get bite through skin with out scraping, steaming, jaccarding, pinning, muffin tinning and glueing the farking things? if so why are all cooks not trying to master that method and if not why is bite through skin such an imperitive?

Scottie
07-07-2013, 11:01 PM
People are always looking for short cuts or magic pixie dust. Knowing how to use your equipment, knowledge of cooking and having flavors that do not offend is the way to winning. For the record.... there are no unicorns or magic pixie dust...

rookiedad
07-07-2013, 11:15 PM
it seems to me though that if bite through skin was native to great bbq and achievable by knowing your equipment and knowledge of cooking that most people would be trying to get it using those routes just like in the other catagories. no other judging requirement has as much pixie dust thrown at it.

Uncle Buds BBQ
07-07-2013, 11:15 PM
For the record.... there are no unicorns
I seen one of them thar unicorns one time after I drank some of that thar "apple pie" :wacko::wacko::wacko:

Alexa RnQ
07-07-2013, 11:17 PM
what i wan't to know is, is there a way that great bbqers get bite through skin with out scraping, steaming, jaccarding, pinning, muffin tinning and glueing the farking things?

Yes. We also don't cut thighs down into bizarre machined little shapes.

And as regards meat glue, I would not be adding ANYTHING to the meat prior to meat inspection -- trimming only.

big matt
07-07-2013, 11:53 PM
People are always looking for short cuts or magic pixie dust. Knowing how to use your equipment, knowledge of cooking and having flavors that do not offend is the way to winning. For the record.... there are no unicorns or magic pixie dust...

Dammit there goes my idea for a new show..tropical unicorn hunter..kinda like the Bigfoot guys but in lush tropical locations..jokin aside no glue needed here and I agree with your statements.

smokeisgood
07-08-2013, 06:58 AM
I'm also pretty certain, at least in the East that no rep is ever going to inspect your chicken close enough to tell if you applied meat glue prior to, so it's more of an integrity thing.

.

The whole meat inspection thing is a ruse anyway. You show up at a competition, they ask to see your meat, you show them the meat in the cooler, they sign off on it. Now what's to say you do not have a different cooler (or for that matter a refrigerator in a motor home) stuffed full of pre-seasoned, pre injected meat? Nothing. If someone wanted to skirt those rules, the meat inspection charade is not going to stop them. Like you said, it all comes down to integrity.

Untraceable
07-08-2013, 07:01 AM
karma is a B. I think were lucky enough to beable to trim at home.

BBQBeaver
07-08-2013, 07:47 AM
This is cooking BBQ meat... if you have to 'glue' anything together to make it happen, you are in the wrong competition and shouldn't be cooking.

jmoney7269
07-08-2013, 07:57 AM
Move to Texas and just cook halves! :decision:

big matt
07-08-2013, 08:22 AM
Move to Texas and just cook halves! :decision:
Yep..plus they eat ribs with a knife and fork too.

Muzzlebrake
07-08-2013, 08:30 AM
This is cooking BBQ meat... if you have to 'glue' anything together to make it happen, you are in the wrong competition and shouldn't be cooking.

I happen to know more than one Jack Champ that has used it, not sure if they still do. Maybe you're right, they shouldn't be cooking.

BBQBeaver
07-08-2013, 08:38 AM
Sean, my comment may have been a bit harsh I realize.

My point being, I would rather be a good cook with what I was given rather than a good mad scientist. :grin: I know several who use it, but would they win with out it... most probably

Smoke'n Ice
07-08-2013, 09:14 AM
Have read that if you scrap the skin then meat glue will not work because of the absence of protein.

Yep..plus they eat ribs with a knife and fork too.

Gotta use that fork because they fall on the bone after boiling and grilling. We just use sauce to hold them together thru turnin. :twisted:

deguerre
07-08-2013, 09:36 AM
Sigh. This is what we've come to. Years ago people were trying to make the best bbq out of normal meat that they could. Now we glue the skins to the meat.

Well, it's not as if chicken is really barbecue anyway...:roll:




































:behindsofa:

DriverWild
07-08-2013, 10:00 AM
Hey I would be happy cooking the meat the way it comes but try that at a contest and for sure you will not walk. I am not saying this is the best answer but its something I am playing with and I want to get all the info that I can.

This is one of the primary reasons why I believe competition BBQ will be a fad instead of the next great sport. Lost are the days when you could win with meat, seasonings, sauce and smoke/fire. Little do most people know how complicated the processes are for those who walk. Those who do it would say it's hard work and determination but on the flip side I think we all know the simplicity of BBQ is gone in competition. I'm not saying anything can or should be changed I believe it's the nature of humanity to make things more and more complicated over time. The nature of the beast if you will.

Hawg Father of Seoul
07-08-2013, 10:03 AM
No steaming, covering, toothpicking, or BS for us, but we are always 13th place in chicken, you decide.

Just cook a few extra thighs so the one or two that the skin comes up on don't matter.

big matt
07-08-2013, 10:20 AM
This is one of the primary reasons why I believe competition BBQ will be a fad instead of the next great sport. Lost are the days when you could win with meat, seasonings, sauce and smoke/fire. Little do most people know how complicated the processes are for those who walk. Those who do it would say it's hard work and determination but on the flip side I think we all know the simplicity of BBQ is gone in competition. I'm not saying anything can or should be changed I believe it's the nature of humanity to make things more and more complicated over time. The nature of the beast if you will.

Very well said..except I don't see it fading away anytime soon..hopefully not!

Sawdustguy
07-08-2013, 10:35 AM
This is one of the primary reasons why I believe competition BBQ will be a fad instead of the next great sport. Lost are the days when you could win with meat, seasonings, sauce and smoke/fire. Little do most people know how complicated the processes are for those who walk. Those who do it would say it's hard work and determination but on the flip side I think we all know the simplicity of BBQ is gone in competition. I'm not saying anything can or should be changed I believe it's the nature of humanity to make things more and more complicated over time. The nature of the beast if you will.

I would have to disagree with you especially in light of the TV exposure BBQ is getting now with BBQ Pitmasters and other shows. If you go to a five star restaurant do you think the cooking processes are simple?

Candy Sue
07-08-2013, 10:39 AM
This is one of the primary reasons why I believe competition BBQ will be a fad instead of the next great sport. Lost are the days when you could win with meat, seasonings, sauce and smoke/fire. Little do most people know how complicated the processes are for those who walk. Those who do it would say it's hard work and determination but on the flip side I think we all know the simplicity of BBQ is gone in competition. I'm not saying anything can or should be changed I believe it's the nature of humanity to make things more and more complicated over time. The nature of the beast if you will.

I doubt this! I don't see how something where the end result is subjective to the opinions of 6 judges will ever rise to a "great sport." Now, Great Pastime absolutely! I believe that the popularity of competition BBQ is due to the fact that everyone who cooks can visualize themselves doing it (and TV programs which foster that belief).

I also would debate the "simplicity" statement. In spite of subjectivity of judging, on any given turn-in day a well-cooked, simply spiced good piece of meat can win. Some of the best cooks (and still in the call-list cooks), season simply and cook with wood smoke. Think about the rub savings if you cook pork with smoke and add seasonings and sauce before turn in! Best brisket I ever cooked was a black/white rub (salt, pepper, gran. garlic) and smoke. My chicken is simple with a brine and a light dusting of rub and a dip in sauce. I use a chicken piece which doesn't need trimming. Got lucky last contest and took 2nd (but tied the 1st place winner - I always lose the tiebreaker!)!

There's lots of ways to go high-tech, scientific with BBQ, but simplicity is always an option. I go simple because I cook alone and don't have time to deal with it. Here lately I've even been trimming at contests...can't find good meat here.

Untraceable
07-08-2013, 10:52 AM
A friend pointed out to me that BBQ is odd because you dont know how your going to do untill you get your scores. Any other sport you know how your performace is going to be.

Teamfour
07-08-2013, 10:53 AM
If my ribs are fall off the bone, can I use meat glue to create that perfect bite? If my brisket crumbles, can I use meat glue to get the perfect snap apart pull?

My thought is, learn to trim the chicken properly. Our skin never shrinks or pulls off and it is bite-through.

RangerJ
07-08-2013, 11:13 AM
it is not illegal to use meat glue to hold the skin on.

Was this the question you asked? Or was it about putting in on prior, like the OP?

I've got calls at the last few KCBS that I've done in bird, but not due to any muffin tins or glue but because I started taking things serious and putting effort into my product.

DriverWild
07-08-2013, 11:25 AM
I would have to disagree with you especially in light of the TV exposure BBQ is getting now with BBQ Pitmasters and other shows. If you go to a five star restaurant do you think the cooking processes are simple?

For some reason we seem to disagree on a lot of things. I'm talking long term, Pitmasters won't last forever. My point is BBQ isn't 5 star and shouldn't be.

Sawdustguy
07-08-2013, 12:49 PM
For some reason we seem to disagree on a lot of things. I'm talking long term, Pitmasters won't last forever. My point is BBQ isn't 5 star and shouldn't be.

No, BBQ is definitely not fine dining but that is not what I was alluding too. I was alluding to the fact that some of the finer things can be complicated. Not everything is simple and hard work is rewarded. You are right, Pitmasters will not last forever but I don't see the "Fad" ending anytime soon if at all. BBQ competitions have been around since the early 1990's. That is over 20 years ago. I don't think 20+ years is a fad. All you are doing is speculating as you have no evidence to substantiate your claims. I don't either but it sure looks healthy right now.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
07-08-2013, 01:02 PM
There are no points awarded in KCBS for being pure, for being simple, complex, etc.

I choose to go with whatever works best for our team to win within the rules. I'm happy to report a 1st place chicken call with meat glue, and a 35th the next weekend. I agree, its no magic pixie dust. (*And if your using it, remember your lungs are meat). Be careful.

To answer the original question though. I believe its illegal to apply before meat inspection.

dmprantz
07-08-2013, 01:48 PM
I would suggest that you read the ingredients of your transglutaminase preparation. I think you'll find the answer to your question there.

dmp

landarc
07-08-2013, 02:09 PM
Dan makes a good point, wear a mask if you are using it.

Tack
07-08-2013, 04:10 PM
Well quite obviously According to many of the posters I need to learn to PROPERLY trim and cook. Well any of you willing to share your techniques??

ique
07-08-2013, 05:39 PM
I've used meat glue to adhere chicken skin in probably 40 -50 comps since 2008. Not once did I apply before inspection. It's not a seasoning but I'm not interested in explaining that to a rep. Do not apply in advance. I've never worn a mask either but you definitely want to be careful.

Sure you can win with nothing but fire, spice, meat. But, consistently producing a Perfect piece of meat in that 10 minute window and beating out 80 other cooks is freaking hard. I'll use any technique that helps... Some of those techniques I learned from Trigg, some from Achatz.

Red Valley BBQ
07-08-2013, 09:33 PM
I've got calls at the last few KCBS that I've done in bird, but not due to any muffin tins or glue but because I started taking things serious and putting effort into my product.

Let me for the record say that there are few competition cooks that take this more seriously than Tack. We have had lengthy conversations on the subject and on how to improve our game. Like most competition cooks that I know, and a few of them happen to be former World Champions, he is exploring his options to present the best product he can to win. I don't know of anyone involved in a competitive sport that doesn't constantly try to improve on past results.

My thought is, learn to trim the chicken properly. Our skin never shrinks or pulls off and it is bite-through.

So you get bite through skin because of the way you trim your chicken? It has NOTHING to do with how you cook it?

Well quite obviously According to many of the posters I need to learn to PROPERLY trim and cook.

Obviously...

Muzzlebrake
07-08-2013, 10:11 PM
Some of those techniques I learned from Trigg, some from Achatz.

Who? :becky:

CBQ
07-08-2013, 11:27 PM
This is one of the primary reasons why I believe competition BBQ will be a fad instead of the next great sport. Lost are the days when you could win with meat, seasonings, sauce and smoke/fire.

Ya, complexity won't catch on. Like those guys down south that used to race stock cars. Pretty soon they started to build "stock" cars with custom frames and fiberglass bodies. People turned their back on it at that point, and that whole NASCAR thing just died out. A shame, and a cautionary tale for BBQ. :becky:

Q-Dat
07-08-2013, 11:33 PM
Have read that if you scrap the skin then meat glue will not work because of the absence of protein.

I may be wrong because I hqve yet to use the stuff, but I think I heard the opposite. That it won't bond the meat to the fatty layer, or if it does the bond will be broken when the fat renders. Just hearsay mind you.

K-Train
07-09-2013, 06:18 AM
I've used it. From my experience, no taste. I also do the scraping so I'm not sure about the not bonding to non scraped question. Although I think it would work as it's used in restaurants to bond all kinds of things and some butchers use it as well to bond scraps together. What do I know (before any of you answer let me......not much)?

Teamfour
07-09-2013, 06:27 AM
So you get bite through skin because of the way you trim your chicken? It has NOTHING to do with how you cook it?


I won't say the cook has NOTHING to do with it. However, if I trim the chicken so that the skin wraps around the sides there is less chance that the skin will pull off the meat when someone takes a bite. It is my experience that even bite through skin will pull away if not trimmed properly, thus negating the bite-throughness (I made that term up).

boogiesnap
07-09-2013, 06:51 AM
IMHO, anybody NOT using it is doing themselves a disservice. why risk the possibilty of the skin coming off when you KNOW with a bit more work you can GUARANTEE it won't?

as far as applying before meat inspection, i see no benefit, but don't consider it illegal per the letter of the law.

MAP
07-09-2013, 06:53 AM
Where does one get the said "meat glue"???

Podge
07-09-2013, 07:35 AM
If you need to take special care to apply something so it doesn't get in your lungs, I doubt I want it in my stomach.

Dan - 3eyzbbq
07-09-2013, 07:49 AM
If you need to take special care to apply something so it doesn't get in your lungs, I doubt I want it in my stomach.

Don't eat a hot dog then :razz:

walrus79
07-09-2013, 08:03 AM
^^ Or competition BBQ!! Pretty sure meat glue wayyyy better than a lot of things put into comp bbq for that one bite!

Georgiaboy98
07-09-2013, 08:10 AM
This is one of the primary reasons why I believe competition BBQ will be a fad instead of the next great sport. Lost are the days when you could win with meat, seasonings, sauce and smoke/fire. Little do most people know how complicated the processes are for those who walk. Those who do it would say it's hard work and determination but on the flip side I think we all know the simplicity of BBQ is gone in competition. I'm not saying anything can or should be changed I believe it's the nature of humanity to make things more and more complicated over time. The nature of the beast if you will.
So true, watching these competition shows and seeing what the judges want is sometimes silly ( although I watch all the time). What I cook and what my friends and family love might not do very well because its not PERFECT! But thats the game and you strive for perfection I guess.:doh: just my 2 cents!

deguerre
07-09-2013, 08:19 AM
^^ Or competition BBQ!! Pretty sure meat glue wayyyy better than a lot of things put into comp bbq for that one bite!
I'm willing to bet though, KCBS pork or ribs prepared by seasoned pit masters would be some pretty darn good stuff too if it weren't sauced and just allowed to be tasted as if it were a pork and not a sauce dish...

















An exaggeration I admit, but just to make a point.

Podge
07-09-2013, 08:26 AM
Don't eat a hot dog then :razz:

Damn!... ignorance is bliss. My dad actually got to watch how hot dogs were made and still ate them!!!.. I will too though.

Sawdustguy
07-09-2013, 08:27 AM
If you need to take special care to apply something so it doesn't get in your lungs, I doubt I want it in my stomach.

Podge,

Anything from sugar to meat glue in powder form is bad to inhale. I think he was alluding to the fact that you could glue your lungs if you inhaled enough of it. It is a naturally occurring enzyme that we all have in our bodies. It's original use was as a coagulant to fight hemorrhages. Just some FYI for you.

Rich Parker
07-09-2013, 08:56 AM
You guys are crazy! :shock:

HoDeDo
07-09-2013, 10:27 AM
I guess the bottom line is - the only "enhancement" allowed prior to inspection is trimming. Unless you buy the chicken pre-glued from the packer ( at that point it is a manufacturer enhancement) - you can't add the glue yourself.

Now at home it is really fun to take and layer white meat, bacon and dark meat... and, oh nevermind... it wasnt really THAT fun ;)

IMHO it takes just as long to meat glue as it does to toothpick, and toothpicks are cheaper.... so I just toothpick, and somehow still score in chicken occasionally. I think Mr. Hart nailed the jist of it however!!!

landarc
07-09-2013, 12:15 PM
We meat glued a lobster tail into a filet, then smoked it after gluing bacon around the outside. It did not suck.

Untraceable
07-09-2013, 12:31 PM
mind blown officially Landarc

Kit R
07-09-2013, 12:35 PM
People are always looking for short cuts or magic pixie dust. Knowing how to use your equipment, knowledge of cooking and having flavors that do not offend is the way to winning. For the record.... there are no unicorns or magic pixie dust...

Have you seen Harold and Kumar Escape Fron Guantanamo Bay? If not, you might want to rethink the existence of unicorns.

Also, I have it on good authority that once a certain unnamed team decided to quit riding the unicorn after two years of riding him every week, they took home two first place chicken calls in three weeks. That's what I heard anyway.

G$
07-09-2013, 02:53 PM
Ya, complexity won't catch on. Like those guys down south that used to race stock cars. Pretty soon they started to build "stock" cars with custom frames and fiberglass bodies. People turned their back on it at that point, and that whole NASCAR thing just died out. A shame, and a cautionary tale for BBQ. :becky:

This is a salient point. FTR, I can not tolerate modern NASCAR, although it seems very popular among a large number of people.

Fatback Joe
07-09-2013, 03:07 PM
Also, I have it on good authority that once a certain unnamed team decided to quit riding the unicorn after two years of riding him every week, they took home two first place chicken calls in three weeks. That's what I heard anyway.

I heard they ground the unicorn into pixie dust first and then used that.

Muzzlebrake
07-09-2013, 03:15 PM
I heard they ground the unicorn into pixie dust first and then used that.

Everyone knows meat glue is powdered unicorn horn........

Fatback Joe
07-09-2013, 03:16 PM
Everyone knows meat glue is powdered unicorn horn........

Well..........they do now. :roll:

Jacked UP BBQ
07-09-2013, 03:22 PM
Nothing wrong with meat glue, I don't use it, don't need it for my process, but for some people and different cookers they do. I would not apply it prior to inspection.

CTSmokehouse
07-09-2013, 08:42 PM
Who? :becky:

Jonny BBQ Trigg, Guy molecular cooking Achatz...

Going to Chicago this weekend....

Who knows what I'll learn...

Reservations at Topolobambo (Bayless) and Nightwood (Jason Vincent) winner of Grand Cochon at the F&W Classic in Aspen and Best New Chef in F&W 2013...

Taste of Chicago 2013...

Family time...

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

PS ....molecular cooking is ...!!!

boogiesnap
07-10-2013, 07:01 AM
yup, if you look at the tasting menu at wd-50 in nyc, half the meal uses transglutamase.

Ron_L
07-10-2013, 09:48 AM
For the record.... there are no unicorns or magic pixie dust...

WHAT!!!!

I'm so farking depressed... :tsk:

Ron_L
07-10-2013, 09:49 AM
Jonny BBQ Trigg, Guy molecular cooking Achatz...

Going to Chicago this weekend....

Who knows what I'll learn...

Reservations at Topolobambo (Bayless) and Nightwood (Jason Vincent) winner of Grand Cochon at the F&W Classic in Aspen and Best New Chef in F&W 2013...

Taste of Chicago 2013...

Family time...

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

PS ....molecular cooking is ...!!!

You should add Graham Elliot, Moto and Alinea to that list.

If you have a lot of money :-D

Hawg Father of Seoul
07-10-2013, 11:38 AM
You should add Graham Elliot, Moto and Alinea to that list.

If you have a lot of money :-D

Did any one mention Trotter's? You know for good cuisine.

If I get another foam, plastic roe, or something frozen with nitrogen... I am going to vomit on the bastid that serves it to me. The novelty wore off ten years ago.

Scottie
07-10-2013, 11:55 AM
Charlie Trotter retired and closed his restaurant.

Hawg Father of Seoul
07-10-2013, 12:29 PM
Charlie Trotter retired and closed his restaurant.

Noooooooo

landarc
07-10-2013, 12:47 PM
His former executive chef and the executive chef of Bar Charlie are now in San Francisco. And they are putting out great food. In fact, I am eating Hiroo's cooking tonight, he was the Exec Chef at Bar Charlie.

Tack
07-10-2013, 03:06 PM
Well this subject is in the hands of the rules committee. When I get their answer I'll post it here!!

Q-Dat
07-10-2013, 07:36 PM
Well this subject is in the hands of the rules committee. When I get their answer I'll post it here!!

Well I'll take that to mean that it wasn't a cut and dry simple answer for them either. Looks like you temporarily stumped em! Nice work!

CarolinaQue
07-10-2013, 07:56 PM
With the question of legality aside, I thought that the window for it being used was relatively small? As in, you should start cooking shortly after it's applied?

dmprantz
07-10-2013, 08:02 PM
With the question of legality aside, I thought that the window for it being used was relatively small? As in, you should start cooking shortly after it's applied?

It's the opposite. It takes many hours for the bond to take effect. The window of application is relatively small. I honestly don't know why there is any question still. I am not aware of any transglutaminase preparation which does not include some combination of salt, sugar, MSG, or phosphates. All of those are considered seasoning.

dmp

sdbbq1234
07-10-2013, 08:24 PM
Have you seen Harold and Kumar Escape Fron Guantanamo Bay? If not, you might want to rethink the existence of unicorns.

Also, I have it on good authority that once a certain unnamed team decided to quit riding the unicorn after two years of riding him every week, they took home two first place chicken calls in three weeks. That's what I heard anyway.

Hhmmmmm. I am not sure, but I think I saw someone a couple of weeks ago with a HUGE wooden rooster on their hood for an ornament. As a matter of fact, I think they were right next to us at the Hogging Up comp in Winchester.

And, I could swear I saw a empty case of Elmer's Wood Glue in their trash pile.....

But then again, I could be mistaken.......................

I forget, I forget, I forgot!

:tongue:

wallace

Q-Dat
07-10-2013, 10:13 PM
It's the opposite. It takes many hours for the bond to take effect. The window of application is relatively small. I honestly don't know why there is any question still. I am not aware of any transglutaminase preparation which does not include some combination of salt, sugar, MSG, or phosphates. All of those are considered seasoning.

dmp

These folks are pretty reputable. Here they just sprinkle it on and wrap it up until its ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lOJaEXo3qY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

But like I said I've never used it so all I have is hearsay.

CBQ
07-10-2013, 10:43 PM
Where does one get the said "meat glue"???

Amazon, just like everything else. Order small portions, once you expose it to air it starts to degrade, and is useless after 2 hours. It's shelf stable for 2 years before it's opened though.

Muzzlebrake
07-10-2013, 10:45 PM
You should add Graham Elliot, Moto and Alinea to that list.

If you have a lot of money :-D

'F that , too high brow for me. Whats wrong with Al's Italian Beef, Hot Doug's and Vienna Beef? I'm still mad Scottie was trying to keep me away from Kuma's Korner!

CTSmokehouse
07-10-2013, 10:56 PM
You should add Graham Elliot, Moto and Alinea to that list.

If you have a lot of money :-D

Been to Alinea...

This is a family visit and not enough notice or time for the others...maybe next visit....will be going to Taste of Chicago... and enjoying family time...and perhaps a Chicago Vienna Red Hot(first had outside the Tower of London...don't ask..) or Maxwell Street Polish sausage with grilled onions....what exactly are sport peppers ? (pickled serrano's)and where can I get some (had them at Mustards Last Stand Chicago style last visit in Evanston)...and the poppy seed buns...?

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff

BTW...meat glue in the Vienna Red hots!

CBQ
07-10-2013, 11:14 PM
I am not aware of any transglutaminase preparation which does not include some combination of salt, sugar, MSG, or phosphates. All of those are considered seasoning.

Moo Gloo TI - Ingredients: Transglutaminase, Maltodextrin

No salt, no MSG, no phosphates. Maltodextrin is related to glucose, but is pretty much flavor neutral as used in meat glue.

I think, however, the spirit of the KCBS rules is that you don't alter the food in any way other than trimming prior to inspection, and I suspect the rules committee will find it illegal to apply earlier.

Scottie
07-11-2013, 07:59 AM
Hot dogs are served here with poppy buns. Sport peppers are at any hot dog send as well. Like a pickled Serrano. Depends on where you are staying for a dog or beef.

Q-Dat
07-11-2013, 08:18 AM
If someone wanted to bone out and tie up a pork butt with butcher twine wouldn't that be legal? I don't see meat glue as being any different than butcher twine.

G$
07-11-2013, 10:44 AM
I don't see meat glue as being any different than butcher twine.

It is fascinating how different opinions can be.

Q-Dat
07-11-2013, 01:31 PM
It is fascinating how different opinions can be.

Ok so maybe its a little more extreme than using butcher twine, but as far as functionality aren't they kinda the same?

BMerrill
07-11-2013, 01:46 PM
Glue pork collars together to make 5 pounds.

G$
07-11-2013, 02:01 PM
Ok so maybe its a little more extreme than using butcher twine, but as far as functionality aren't they kinda the same?

Lotsa arguments that they are not the same. Like... for example, do you eat butcher's twine?

Q-Dat
07-11-2013, 02:32 PM
Lotsa arguments that they are not the same. Like... for example, do you eat butcher's twine?

Good point. No I do not, but butcher twine doesny flavor the meat, and neither does meat glue.

Now what if someone created a butcher twine that melts away during cooking. Should that be legal?

dmprantz
07-11-2013, 02:50 PM
These folks are pretty reputable. Here they just sprinkle it on and wrap it up until its ready.

I've discussed this product with reps from the company that produces it. From what they have told me, it oxidizes in air and becomes useless in time. Less than an hour. That is why it is shipped in vacume sealed packages with oxygen absorbers. I was also told that it takes on the order of hours for the bond to take full effect. I forget the exact number but can look it up.

Moo Gloo TI - Ingredients: Transglutaminase, Maltodextrin

Maltodextrin is sugar. Some varieties have a very low sweetness, but that does not change its nutritive properties (calories) nor its hygroscopic properties as a hemuctant (i.e. making food retain water). While it may not add much in the way of flavour, it is something that I would consider a seasoning, and could be a useful ingredient in a brine or injection. Just my opinion as to why this is a no-brainer.

dmp

dmprantz
07-11-2013, 03:52 PM
Now what if someone created a butcher twine that melts away during cooking. Should that be legal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caul_fat

Ron_L
07-11-2013, 03:56 PM
'F that , too high brow for me. Whats wrong with Al's Italian Beef, Hot Doug's and Vienna Beef? I'm still mad Scottie was trying to keep me away from Kuma's Korner!

Nothing is wrong with them! Those are my kind of place :-D

I was just making some suggestions based on the places that CT was visiting.

G$
07-11-2013, 04:03 PM
Good point. No I do not, but butcher twine doesny flavor the meat, and neither does meat glue.

Now what if someone created a butcher twine that melts away during cooking. Should that be legal?


QDat, I am not going to continue argue the point, because this is the kind of stuff I just don't sweat over in my life anymore, but I hope you don't think just things that flavor the meat are prohibited prior to meat inspection. Does water flavor the meat?

And I am certainly not going to speculate on melting meat twine.

Q-Dat
07-11-2013, 05:47 PM
QDat, I am not going to continue argue the point, because this is the kind of stuff I just don't sweat over in my life anymore, but I hope you don't think just things that flavor the meat are prohibited prior to meat inspection. Does water flavor the meat?

And I am certainly not going to speculate on melting meat twine.

Hey my apologies. I had no idea that you saw this as anything less than an intelligent conversation between two grown adults.

CTSmokehouse
07-11-2013, 08:11 PM
Hot dogs are served here with poppy buns. Sport peppers are at any hot dog send as well. Like a pickled Serrano. Depends on where you are staying for a dog or beef.

I'd like to buy some sport peppers and poppy seed buns to bring back to CT. Where is a good source, brand?

Thanks,

Yours in BBQ,

Cliff