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View Full Version : Just the flat according to Dr. BBQ?


jasonjax
07-01-2013, 12:34 PM
Hey folks,

I was re-reading one of my first ever BBQ books , Big Time BBQ by Ray Lampe (2005). He mentioned in one part of the book that many teams cook only the flat for competitions.

Is this still true today? It seems that burnt ends are almost ubiquitous from what I gather. My competition experience is pretty limited, having only competed 4 or 5 times as a BY guy or non KCBS sanctioned events so I may be completely off, but I also know things change in the BBQ world over ~8 years.

I was just curious is this is still true today.

Thanks!

chad
07-01-2013, 12:54 PM
Most cook packers...a lot pay for "prime" or wagyu...so, no I wouldn't compete with just a flat.

Hawg Father of Seoul
07-01-2013, 01:13 PM
A lot should just cook a flat. Burnt ends need to be banging to get in the box. Try some of your neighbor's burnt ends at the next comp you go to. 50/50 shot at be good, not banging.

INmitch
07-01-2013, 01:29 PM
I get whole packers shipped in. I cook only the flat in comps.


Buy the way I grind the best danm hamburger around.:clap2:

didisea
07-01-2013, 01:32 PM
A lot of it depends on the available meat supply in your area. If I can find a really large, thick flat, I will cook that. It just depends on a whole host of variables. But many people will separate a whole packer before cooking, so essentially, you are cooking a flat. One thing I have learned is there is basically no wrong way, and I have seen winning teams do it all differently. Find what works for you.

Smitty250
07-01-2013, 01:50 PM
I usually cook packers for comps. This past comp when I went to look for briskets I found a nice packer and a 9.65 lb thick flat. I bought both and cooked both in the comp...I ended up just turning in the flat I bought - took 10th out of 70!

Podge
07-01-2013, 01:56 PM
back in the day when he wrote that, it seemed there's a lot more people back then that just cooked the flats and not whole packers.

(meeeeeemoooorriiiiiieeeeeessssssss..... like the corners of my miiiiiinnndd........ ok, I'm a bad singer)

jasonjax
07-01-2013, 02:25 PM
So it sounds like plenty of folks still do cook just the flat or at the very least separate the point from the flat and then cook them separately.

I like the comments on the burnt ends though.

So how many of you turn in burnt ends regularly versus just sliced?

gmag
07-01-2013, 02:37 PM
If the burnt ends arent good enough to go in the box, they will definitely be good enough to still find their way into my belly!

rookiedad
07-01-2013, 03:26 PM
lets not call them burnt ends anymore! burnt ends are the BURNT ENDS of the flat. competition burnt ends are, and should be called carmelized deckle cubes. that is what they are! i think they are the thighs of the brisket catagory. if you turned in real burnt ends i wonder what the result would be.

CBQ
07-01-2013, 04:06 PM
if you turned in real burnt ends i wonder what the result would be.

Would do better with CBJs vs rookie judges that might not know what it is.

I think most cook packers now. Since Dr. BBQ is also a Brethren maybe he will answer.

rookiedad
07-01-2013, 08:04 PM
Would do better with CBJs vs rookie judges that might not know what it is.

I think most cook packers now. Since Dr. BBQ is also a Brethren maybe he will answer.

with this i was referring to the tenderness issue. if bark ain't tender and is sometimes scored down, burnt crispy ends surely ain't tender and would probably fair just as well even though they are authentic to bbq.

Stark-O-Rama
07-01-2013, 09:50 PM
lets not call them burnt ends anymore! burnt ends are the BURNT ENDS of the flat. competition burnt ends are, and should be called carmelized deckle cubes. that is what they are! i think they are the thighs of the brisket catagory. if you turned in real burnt ends i wonder what the result would be.

+ 1 :clap2:

wmaes47
07-01-2013, 10:40 PM
I don't understand why more teams don't concentrate on the point, cooked to perfection has a flavor that knock the socks out of flats...

- Taste better
- Has all of the flavor with the marbling
- Stays moist
- Has the better bark

I have turned I cubed point only and did very well without any flat in the box...
Turned in the box as a chaos theory, not lined up all in a row...

I believe point, cooked properly, will win a contest for the ones who perfect cooking the point properly...

Crash
07-02-2013, 12:26 AM
I've been a convert to the high heat, flat only camp over the last 2 years. I was somewhat skeptical at first, but our results have been amazing. In 4 comps out here we've managed 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st. Doubt I'll be going back to whole packers any time soon.

Like INmitch, I buy the whole packers and turn the point into burger.

dwfisk
07-02-2013, 06:10 AM
I get whole packers shipped in. I cook only the flat in comps.


Buy the way I grind the best danm hamburger around.:clap2:

I've been a convert to the high heat, flat only camp over the last 2 years. I was somewhat skeptical at first, but our results have been amazing. In 4 comps out here we've managed 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st. Doubt I'll be going back to whole packers any time soon.

Like INmitch, I buy the whole packers and turn the point into burger.

Really? :doh: I'm also a convert to H&F brisket and cook whole 12#-15# packers. IMHO brisket point, when done right, is the best beef you can get out of a smoker, period! I don't doubt it would make great burgers but given the choice of a good burger or brisket point fresh out of the cooker, I'll go with the brisket point every time! Just my $0.02.

jmoney7269
07-02-2013, 07:00 AM
i also agree that brisket point when done right @300+ is the best part of the brisket. when we do comps that dont want consectutive slices, we turn in the flat and point and let the judge decide what they want. we have cooked a flat to the point of shredding, so we had to turn in the point, and we won. chit happens and luck prevails sometimes.

Dragline
07-02-2013, 07:34 AM
back in the day when he wrote that, it seemed there's a lot more people back then that just cooked the flats and not whole packers.

(meeeeeemoooorriiiiiieeeeeessssssss..... like the corners of my miiiiiinnndd........ ok, I'm a bad singer)

Thank God you realized that Podge

INmitch
07-02-2013, 09:03 AM
Really? :doh: I'm also a convert to H&F brisket and cook whole 12#-15# packers. IMHO brisket point, when done right, is the best beef you can get out of a smoker, period! I don't doubt it would make great burgers but given the choice of a good burger or brisket point fresh out of the cooker, I'll go with the brisket point every time! Just my $0.02.
Two years ago when I quit putting in burnt ends in the box my scores went way up and I was a lot more consistent. As far as cooking the point at home........not at my house. I can't stand to eat brisket. I don't even taste it at comps. My wife tells me which one to put in the box.

AbleAcresBBQ
07-02-2013, 12:28 PM
Two years ago when I quit putting in burnt ends in the box my scores went way up and I was a lot more consistent. As far as cooking the point at home........not at my house. I can't stand to eat brisket. I don't even taste it at comps. My wife tells me which one to put in the box.

If your wife can't make it to a contest just send a few slices our way and we'll pick for you!

Smoke&HoneyBBQ
07-02-2013, 01:02 PM
Two years ago when I quit putting in burnt ends in the box my scores went way up and I was a lot more consistent. As far as cooking the point at home........not at my house. I can't stand to eat brisket. I don't even taste it at comps. My wife tells me which one to put in the box.

I took your advice and skipped burnt ends last week. Night and day improvement in score. Definitely not doing them again....well still doing them for handing out and snacking but seriously doubt they will ever go into a box.

Smoke&HoneyBBQ
07-02-2013, 01:27 PM
Two years ago when I quit putting in burnt ends in the box my scores went way up and I was a lot more consistent. As far as cooking the point at home........not at my house. I can't stand to eat brisket. I don't even taste it at comps. My wife tells me which one to put in the box.

I took your advice and skipped burnt ends last week. Night and day improvement in score. Definitely not doing them again....well still doing them for handing out and snacking but seriously doubt they will ever go into a box.

Slamdunkpro
07-02-2013, 01:34 PM
lets not call them burnt ends anymore! burnt ends are the BURNT ENDS of the flat. competition burnt ends are, and should be called carmelized point cubes. that is what they are! i think they are the thighs of the brisket catagory. if you turned in real burnt ends i wonder what the result would be.
<nit mode>
Fixed your post. Deckle is found on the underside of the flat. There is no deckle on a #120 packer.
</nit mode>
:wink:

deguerre
07-02-2013, 01:49 PM
<nit mode>
Fixed your post. Deckle is found on the underside of the flat. There is no deckle on a #120 packer.:wink:
</nit mode>

<nit mode>
Got Hats?
</nit mode>

:wink:

Crash
07-02-2013, 02:22 PM
Really? :doh: I'm also a convert to H&F brisket and cook whole 12#-15# packers. IMHO brisket point, when done right, is the best beef you can get out of a smoker, period! I don't doubt it would make great burgers but given the choice of a good burger or brisket point fresh out of the cooker, I'll go with the brisket point every time! Just my $0.02.

Really!!

Roll with what works for you. I'll happily do the same.

drbbq
07-02-2013, 08:49 PM
That was the case when I wrote that in 2004 but I do believe it has changed.

LTG
07-02-2013, 09:53 PM
I don't understand why more teams don't concentrate on the point, cooked to perfection has a flavor that knock the socks out of flats...

- Taste better
- Has all of the flavor with the marbling
- Stays moist
- Has the better bark

I have turned I cubed point only and did very well without any flat in the box...
Turned in the box as a chaos theory, not lined up all in a row...

I believe point, cooked properly, will win a contest for the ones who perfect cooking the point properly...
:clap2: I agree whole heartily.

jasonjax
07-03-2013, 07:45 AM
That was the case when I wrote that in 2004 but I do believe it has changed.


That's what I figured. Thanks for responding, and it is still a great book imo.

Pappy Q
07-03-2013, 09:01 AM
In my worthless opinion, the point burnt ends are amazing when done right. However, I don't believe the "average" KCBS judge understands what they are or appreciates them. Thus, if slices are good I don't include burnt ends. If slices are off and the burnt ends are absolutely perfect, they might go in the box.