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mobow
06-25-2013, 08:23 PM
I am looking to produce a front heat to my turn ins. I am using cayeenee for my main heat source which I think gives a great back heat to my meat but I need something that will register quicker for the judges. Any thoughts on a heat source that will register on the taste buds almost immediattley. Keith

Big_John_BBQ
06-25-2013, 08:40 PM
Are you using the cayenne in your rub or sauce? I have always found that front heat is best achieved in the sauce. Try spicing your sauce up and see if it helps.

sweetheatbbq
06-26-2013, 07:29 AM
jalapeno powder is a good upfront heat for rubs. I like to mix in some death dust from Oakridge for front and back heat.

Lake Dogs
06-26-2013, 08:27 AM
Ahhh! A good question the competition chili cooks deal with frequently. :grin:

Chipotle powder, jalepeno powder, and/or serrano powder helps here. Black and white pepper help a little too.

Careful with the serrano powder, it's very hot.


Check penderey's or mild bills; either or both should carry them.

Found them all at spicesinc.com Also, I use a little ancho for that middle heat and seems to help "blend" the heats...

Q-Dat
06-26-2013, 04:50 PM
Ok this is a serious question. I'm not dogging anyone's beliefs here, and hopefully this is on topic enough not to be a hijack.

Doesn't ALL heat from ALL chili peppers come from Capsaicin? Therefore wouldn't the areas of the mouth be affected the same just in varying degrees?

Q-Dat
06-27-2013, 11:26 PM
Ok this is a serious question. I'm not dogging anyone's beliefs here, and hopefully this is on topic enough not to be a hijack.

Doesn't ALL heat from ALL chili peppers come from Capsaicin? Therefore wouldn't the areas of the mouth be affected the same just in varying degrees?



Oops! Sorry folks! It was not my intention to bring the thread to a screeching halt!

CBQ
06-28-2013, 01:03 AM
Ok this is a serious question. I'm not dogging anyone's beliefs here, and hopefully this is on topic enough not to be a hijack.

Doesn't ALL heat from ALL chili peppers come from Capsaicin? Therefore wouldn't the areas of the mouth be affected the same just in varying degrees?

I googled "front heat back heat" and got...this thread. Not helpful. While the source of heat may be the same, the delivery isn't. Consider chipotle vs cayenne. They aren't the same, the chipotle will hit you first, other things being equal.

Stark-O-Rama
06-28-2013, 01:30 AM
This is a great topic.

Here's an article quote from the NY Times -

“Although there are subtle regional differences in sensitivity to different compounds over the lingual surface, the oft-quoted concept of a ‘tongue map’ defining distinct zones for sweet, bitter, salty and sour has largely been discredited,” according to a review article in The Journal of Cell Biology in August 2010."

So - If anyone thinks they KNOW - eh, you probably don't, and it's still just one of the mysteries of the human body. I'm ok with that. I love that BBQ is still mysterious. I love it, and that's enough for me to continue to be enthralled, and seduced by it.

mobow
06-28-2013, 08:57 AM
Thanx for the replys. My biggest reason for asking is that when I judge I have learned to take my bite and then give it a minute to allow the full effect of any heat to kick in. Many judges are quicker to give the score and I hear comments "the heat came on late for sample 2. I would of scored it a littel higher if the heat had come on quicker" When I cook the heat of my recipe has a tendecny to creep up on you. I am looking for ways for the heat to register on the taste buds quicker. I am going to add a little more spice to my sauce and am going to up the black pepper a bit and see what I think. Keith

TooSaucedToPork
06-28-2013, 09:08 AM
Sriracha, chili oil, chili extracts, pepper powders.

We got good front end from sriracha, chili oil and white pepper mixed.

TooSaucedToPork
06-28-2013, 09:18 AM
Or slip a few drops of resiniferatoxin in there and burn the tongues out of their mouth ;-)

CarolinaQue
06-28-2013, 09:26 AM
Thanx for the replys. My biggest reason for asking is that when I judge I have learned to take my bite and then give it a minute to allow the full effect of any heat to kick in. Many judges are quicker to give the score and I hear comments "the heat came on late for sample 2. I would of scored it a littel higher if the heat had come on quicker" When I cook the heat of my recipe has a tendecny to creep up on you. I am looking for ways for the heat to register on the taste buds quicker. I am going to add a little more spice to my sauce and am going to up the black pepper a bit and see what I think. Keith

I have always found that my rubs tend to be a back heat approach, and that front heat is usually delivered through vinegar in the sauce. I think that it has to do with the vinegar kind of coating the mouth versus the rub that just hits the tongue.

Regarding different peppers used for heat, I use chipotle powder and not cayenne because I find cayenne to be to aggressive and to "up front" for my tastes. I agree with the ancho for the bridge and white pepper along with black pepper.

bbq.tom
06-28-2013, 10:14 AM
Just a suggestion from a judge, take it easy on the heat!!! If it burns my mouth it won't score high. If it is still on my palate when I write down my score (which is AFTER I take a bite of cracker and a sip of water) then the score will be adversely affected.

Just saying.

CarolinaQue
06-28-2013, 10:16 AM
Just a suggestion from a judge, take it easy on the heat!!! If it burns my mouth it won't score high. If it is still on my palate when I write down my score (which is AFTER I take a bite of cracker and a sip of water) then the score will be adversely affected.

Just saying.


I agree. The heat should fade fast and shouldn't over power on it's way through!!!

mobow
06-28-2013, 10:22 AM
Just a suggestion from a judge, take it easy on the heat!!! If it burns my mouth it won't score high. If it is still on my palate when I write down my score (which is AFTER I take a bite of cracker and a sip of water) then the score will be adversely affected.

Just saying.
I agree with you totally. That is why I am looking for a spice that will register quicker. I like my current heat level but it takes it too long to show up in the bite. By time it does some judges will have already written their score down and I think if the heat gets there a little quicker my score will go up a little. Keith

CarolinaQue
06-28-2013, 10:47 AM
I agree with you totally. That is why I am looking for a spice that will register quicker. I like my current heat level but it takes it too long to show up in the bite. By time it does some judges will have already written their score down and I think if the heat gets there a little quicker my score will go up a little. Keith


What are you using as your heat source currently?

Lake Dogs
06-28-2013, 11:16 AM
^^^ I think he said he's using cayenne.

Q-Dat, I wish I knew the science. Its actually not like me to not geek out on something like this. I do know from testing, there are peppers that you feel/sense the heat right off, and others that you dont. Some hit fast and stay, some hit fast back off. Same with late hitters, but most of them tend to stay with you.

Mobow: Like they said (and you agreed), bbq needs a nice balance, not "hot" like you can get away with in some chili's...

At touch of smoked serrano, a touch of chipotle (which is smoked red jalepeno), and possibly back off the cayenne a little. Ancho is fairly mild and is more that middle heat that tends to "blend" and/or tie them in together. A little white pepper, a little black pepper, you'll have rub that has just a little heat all the way through and offset the sweet.

CBQ
06-28-2013, 11:33 AM
This is a great topic.

Here's an article quote from the NY Times -

“Although there are subtle regional differences in sensitivity to different compounds over the lingual surface, the oft-quoted concept of a ‘tongue map’ defining distinct zones for sweet, bitter, salty and sour has largely been discredited,” according to a review article in The Journal of Cell Biology in August 2010."

So - If anyone thinks they KNOW - eh, you probably don't

Well, in this case, we aren't really talking about a location on the tongue, but rather that some peppers seem to announce themselves right away (front heat) when you take a bite, and others seem to kick in over time (back heat)

Qbert60
06-28-2013, 12:24 PM
I used a rub from Willinghams called hot stuff. Pure hot. Just a light sprinkle was burning my mouth. Used it in comp this weekend. Got 12th. Ribs were a little tough though, but it shows to me the judges like spice.

mobow
06-28-2013, 01:17 PM
I used a rub from Willinghams called hot stuff. Pure hot. Just a light sprinkle was burning my mouth. Used it in comp this weekend. Got 12th. Ribs were a little tough though, but it shows to me the judges like spice.
Yeah that would scare me. I am not looking to burn the mouth. I want a slight heat that comes on fast and then fades away. I might try that for my own home eating though cuz I like a little fire every so often. Keith

JS-TX
06-28-2013, 05:49 PM
I think there are a lot of factors involved here. 1st one being not everyone feels the heat at the front or back in the same way. 2nd one is that what other ingredients are in your sauce/glaze? If it's heavy in one ingredient or another (vinegar or sugar) that can change how the heat is perceived too because they are going to taste those ingredients as well. I think a good approach is to have a balanced sauce, sweetness balanced by the vinegar/tang and a mix of peppers to hit all the taste buds, but of course not too much as to offend the judges. I like to use equal parts of chipolte and cayenne powder to round out the heat level. Jalapeno powder is good too. It may take a little experimenting but you'll get it.

kcmike
06-28-2013, 06:14 PM
I always thought "front heat" was what happens when you're eating HDD wings and forget to wash your hands BEFORE you go to take a leak...

And then I thought "back heat" was what you get about 8 hours AFTER eating those HDD wings...

Maybe I got it wrong? :loco:

Lake Dogs
06-28-2013, 08:15 PM
Noooo, you're right!

Stark-O-Rama
06-28-2013, 08:35 PM
Well, in this case, we aren't really talking about a location on the tongue, but rather that some peppers seem to announce themselves right away (front heat) when you take a bite, and others seem to kick in over time (back heat)

Ahhhh......understood :loco:

In that case, I think that the vinegar content has something to do with it. It seems like if I have less vinegar in the sauce, the heat seems to come quickly. With more vinegar my mouth gets hit by that first, then the heat sneaks up. I'll have to do further testing though - oh no, I guess I have to eat even more BBQ :-D

CarolinaQue
06-29-2013, 08:52 AM
Yeah that would scare me. I am not looking to burn the mouth. I want a slight heat that comes on fast and then fades away. I might try that for my own home eating though cuz I like a little fire every so often. Keith


Then I would drop the cayenne and use chipotle powder and some white and black pepper.

jmoney7269
06-29-2013, 05:24 PM
Finely ground black or white pepper. It comes quick and leaves quick. Black pepper is awesome. Coarse is what you see and fine is what you taste. Add some to your brine or marinade and you will be good. Practice practice practice.