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BBQchef33
06-02-2013, 08:22 PM
Picture is a little off, but finish on these were like glass. The pieces down the center were the sides cut from the bone on 3 oversized thighs and fanned down the center. Parsley bed was even, typical putting green with minimal showing.

Please score... thanks..

Garrett
06-02-2013, 08:32 PM
That is some tight chicken!!! 9 all dayum day long.

Slamdunkpro
06-02-2013, 08:42 PM
From the photo the back right and front right thigh look scorched. For me the color isn't appetizing. From the picture I have to go 7.

jmoney7269
06-02-2013, 08:43 PM
From the photo the back right and front right thigh look scorched. For me the color isn't appetizing. From the picture I have to go 7.
Good lord man, that's one of the best looking chicken boxes I have ever seen. I would love to see what you think is a 9 because I just tried to reach through the screen and snatch one up. It's BBQ, and it looks BBQ'd and yumdiddlyscrumptious

ELEVEN! Oh wait y'all only go to 9 so a TEN! Definitely a beatiful box.

landarc
06-02-2013, 08:43 PM
Off-hand, quick glance-9

I assume that there are 6 of the cut pieces and not 5, it sort of looks like 5, which would be bad. I could drop to eight if the color is a little less even than it appears in the image.

landarc
06-02-2013, 08:44 PM
From the photo the back right and front right thigh look scorched. For me the color isn't appetizing. From the picture I have to go 7.
You're a hard man.

Rub'n Wood BBQ
06-02-2013, 08:46 PM
Looks great, but only 4 little ones might be an issue as there is not 6 servings.

Rub'n Wood BBQ
06-02-2013, 08:47 PM
Oops, closer look shows 6. Nevermind, 9.

BBQchef33
06-02-2013, 08:50 PM
From the photo the back right and front right thigh look scorched. For me the color isn't appetizing. From the picture I have to go 7.

absolutely no scorching on there at all.

BBQchef33
06-02-2013, 09:06 PM
Off-hand, quick glance-9

I assume that there are 6 of the cut pieces and not 5, it sort of looks like 5, which would be bad. I could drop to eight if the color is a little less even than it appears in the image.
there are 6. Look close at top.. thats 2 pieces.

Pitmaster T
06-02-2013, 09:11 PM
"Perfection is its own form of marking" Popdaddy, 1978.

Mark Warren
06-02-2013, 09:18 PM
Looks Great to me.
Not gonna judge the Grand PooBah.

Big M1ke
06-02-2013, 09:22 PM
I don't know a lot. But that looks damn good :thumb:

BBQchef33
06-02-2013, 09:22 PM
Looks Great to me.
Not gonna judge the Grand PooBah.

Im a member too! :yo:

Trying to gauge if I'm nuts or the judges were drunk. Honest opinions are helpful to everyone. :thumb:


soooooo.. pick a number... 1-9. 8) any number... eenie meeny mine mo....

Mark Warren
06-02-2013, 09:27 PM
Im a member too! :yo:

Trying to gauge if I'm nuts or the judges were drunk. Honest opinions are helpful to everyone. :thumb:

that case I have never been to a judging of any kind of food competition, so I am totally unqualified to even take a guess. But I will say I can't see anything wrong with them at all.
They look real Damn Tasty to me.

Muzzlebrake
06-02-2013, 09:31 PM
8 from the pic, possibly a 9 in person

Butt Rubb'n BBQ
06-02-2013, 09:44 PM
I give it a 9 as well. I am having a hard time with pieces down the middle. Just not use to seeing that and seems out of place to me. Want a shine on that chicken. Great job.

Bbq Bubba
06-02-2013, 09:51 PM
LOTS of meat. Hardly any parsley. :wink: Beautiful color and symmetry.

9

TheJackal
06-02-2013, 10:02 PM
My guess is that it wasn't 43rd because of appearance. If I showed you a pic of my pork box (if I had one) you'd think 22 was a screw job also. I don't think teams win or lose because of appearance scores. However, taste/tenderness anomalies always concern me. Our first place brisket got a 5 in taste from one judge (no comment card and obviously tossed out). Nice job on your 5th place Pork call.

BBQ Tim
06-02-2013, 10:03 PM
I am having a hard time with pieces down the middle. Just not use to seeing that and seems out of place to me.

Agree with stament above, the thighs look awesome!

motoeric
06-02-2013, 10:05 PM
It's always hard to tell with a photo, but I can't see scoring this less than an 8 and a 9 seems very reasonable.

Eric

BBQchef33
06-02-2013, 10:10 PM
I give it a 9 as well. I am having a hard time with pieces down the middle. Just not use to seeing that and seems out of place to me. Want a shine on that chicken. Great job.


I think you may have hit something there. We thought about that yesterday too. We try to be unique and deviate from the normal same ole same ole in presentations... but why would that hurt scores if it looks good. :confused:

WineMaster
06-02-2013, 10:31 PM
I think the score would be higher on just the 6 Monster thighs. The add in (The cut off the side of the thigh) is not one of the identifiable pieces off the bird so I would think it would just confuse them. Plus they are already judging you on the thigh so why give them another piece form the same cut that can bring your score down cause they have to average the two. I would guess they thought it was white meat down the center and you got knocked because they're expectations were not met.
But what do I know.

Alexa RnQ
06-02-2013, 10:31 PM
Was uniqueness the only reason for including the center pieces? If it was thigh meat, what was it really adding to the box, other than the visual? Had you tried this in practice to see how the cut thigh pieces held up in the wait interval before judging?

As far as color goes, I like it. It looks actually cooked, as opposed to some chicken boxes I've seen that are such a light red color that you wonder if the skin is fully cooked/rendered under the red lacquer.

peterz
06-02-2013, 10:40 PM
KCBS CBJ here.
Just looking at the picture-8.
In person maybe-9.
I think the middle pieces are just overkill.
You asked, I geve you my 2c.
Hope this helps.

Smokin J's
06-02-2013, 10:49 PM
New bee checking in here: looks very appetizing to me! I do see inconsistency with the color in the presentation. I also am not happy with the center pieces, they do takeaway a little from the presentation of the thighs.

I do gotta say, I want to try them as they do look like great BBQ!

BBQchef33
06-02-2013, 11:06 PM
im appreciating all the input folks, and the comments about the center pieces are somewhat validating what we were thinking.

I think the score would be higher on just the 6 Monster thighs. The add in (The cut off the side of the thigh) is not one of the identifiable pieces off the bird so I would think it would just confuse them. Plus they are already judging you on the thigh so why give them another piece form the same cut that can bring your score down cause they have to average the two. I would guess they thought it was white meat down the center and you got knocked because they're expectations were not met.
But what do I know.

i think thats what happened.. rookie mistake after 10 years of competing. read on..

Was uniqueness the only reason for including the center pieces? If it was thigh meat, what was it really adding to the box, other than the visual? Had you tried this in practice to see how the cut thigh pieces held up in the wait interval before judging?



We thought about that too.. i was thinking maybe one of those side pieces may have been fatty or nasty and it came to bite us in the butt. If I had to guess, thats what hurt us.

i have used it before successfully, and yes it is for appearance only(fill the box). But IMO, I like those pieces.. its just a small bitesize piece of meat. Similar to putting a 'chunk' in the pork box next to the pulled.

My guess is that it wasn't 43rd because of appearance. If I showed you a pic of my pork box (if I had one) you'd think 22 was a screw job also. I don't think teams win or lose because of appearance scores. However, taste/tenderness anomalies always concern me. Our first place brisket got a 5 in taste from one judge (no comment card and obviously tossed out). Nice job on your 5th place Pork call.

Thats exactly right, and the taste/tenderness was even more bizarre to us.. Ever have one of those contests where you sit there and stare at the scoresheet for hours after? This was ours. :drama::shocked::twitch::frusty: I've been competing long enough to know stuff like this happens.. and you just suck it up and move on, but holy crap this one is baffling.

This presentation got some 6's.. :doh:... thats not gonna kill us.. but i thought that was pretty harsh to start with.. but it gets worse..

then comes T/T/T

i dont think anyone competing would make 'bad tasting' chicken. But texture/tenterness(skin) is the challenge..

Flavor profile was same as Ive been using for 2 years and has done pretty good.... no major deviations... and nothing offensive, so we should not piss off judges in taste. (but we got a 5 :shock: :shock:).

Texture/Tenderness was dead on.. the pieces were really big, so stayed super juicy. Skin was nearly scraped transparent and stayed on the meat, you can bite thru multiple times and just have bites missing in the skin. Unlike our last contest where skin was like rawhide, this time we nailed it.

I thought top 10, team mate thought top 3, couple other teams agreed chicken would hit. We are usually strong in chicken. We were really confident that chicken would hit.

So after all this...We got 7s in presentation and a couple 5 and 6s mixed in taste/texture. Holy crap.. a 5!?? Someone bit thru that and said 'this sucks'? This recipe/technique has hit many time. I can handle being spanked.. but that 5 in taste is mind boggling. If i told you the rub i used as a base, more than half would say ' i use that'... :wacko::confused: Sorry, but a 5 says its below average.. wtf... :doh: and the 6 in Texture, had to be from a bad end piece...

This put our chicken 43 out of 46. Ive never been this low in a category without being DQ'ed for getting there late. its just somewhat culture shock.,

(and of course, we did the coulda/woulda in the car ride home... if i remember right, Top 10 chicken(where it usually hits) would have put us 3rd-4th overall... top 5 in chicken, RGC.)

keep the feedback coming.. i appreciate it.. and almost convinced to stop using those center pieces. But i DO like them. :)


@jackle... congrats on your calls too... we were hootin and hollering when you guys were walking up there! Always good to hear it when familar names are called. :clap:

BBQchef33
06-02-2013, 11:14 PM
KCBS CBJ here.
Just looking at the picture-8.
In person maybe-9.
I think the middle pieces are just overkill.
You asked, I geve you my 2c.
Hope this helps.

Curious.... Why would filling the box with meat be overkill? When we use small thighs, i put 9 in the box which just about covers the entire putting green. The 6 here left gaps, so my thought was to fill the box.

Meat Man
06-03-2013, 12:01 AM
Comment cards?

Alexa RnQ
06-03-2013, 12:05 AM
We got 7s in presentation and a couple 5 and 6s mixed in taste/texture. Holy crap.. a 5!?? Someone bit thru that and said 'this sucks'? This recipe/technique has hit many time. I can handle being spanked.. but that 5 in taste is mind boggling. If i told you the rub i used as a base, more than half would say ' i use that'... :wacko::confused: Sorry, but a 5 says its below average.. wtf... :doh: and the 6 in Texture, had to be from a bad end piece...

This put our chicken 43 out of 46. Ive never been this low in a category without being DQ'ed for getting there late. its just somewhat culture shock.
Apparently you got the same two judges in chicken this week that we had last week in brisket. http://www.divaherself.com/freak3.gif

Okay, so a clear message was sent that this presentation was found to be visually disturbing. I'd have given it a solid 8, so if a point was knocked off for the distraction aspect that puts you at the 7.

And the only possible conclusion on the T/T is, as you surmised, that someone objected to the chunks -- it could have had a fat seam in the middle and some delicate flower was appalled to find fatty meats at a BBQ contest, or it could have been gristly, or whatevs.

And yes, one low score gets thrown out. But when it's Judge 2 AND Judge 5, a good product gets screwed to the bottom of the field. It happens. It's a bitter pill, but it happens. We've competed long enough to objectively know when the food product is what it should be. I bet you do, too, given that you have the history of this flavor profile and process. And to see something that you objectively know to be good get dissed without one farking word on a comment card is maddening.

< Insert well-worn platitudes here about not letting one set of scores get in your head too much, blah blah blah. >

I feel your pain on this one.

nucornhusker
06-03-2013, 12:11 AM
If a judge was going to be a real ass, I couldn't see it getting scored any lower than a 7 on appearance.

If that came across my table (pictures rarely make it look as good as in person), I'd give it a 9. Is it perfect, no, nothing ever is. But to me it looks very appealing and I'd want to take a bite of it right away, so that to me says 9. I compete and I'd be proud to turn that in. But I would personally not put in the center pieces.

I'm not sure how you got the scoring you did.

yelonutz
06-03-2013, 12:22 AM
I would give it a 9 in appearance but...I would never put anything in a box that does not add value. If I judge brisket and the slices are great but they include burnt ends that are so-so they loose points. If the center pieces were just thigh meat with no skin, I bet you were judged on boneless, skinless chicken. Unfortunately, your score will be based on the worst item in the box.

NUTZ

BBQchef33
06-03-2013, 12:40 AM
Comment cards?


nope.. none. :frusty:

Lake Dogs
06-03-2013, 06:10 AM
9, to me it looks like chicken; BBQ'd chicken.

gettinbasted
06-03-2013, 06:50 AM
It looks good to me. I'm guessing those little pieces killed you. Remember, kcbs judges punish anything different. I would give the box an 8, possibly a 9 in person. A small nitpick would be to wipe the sauce marks off the sides of your box from where the thighs touched going in.

timzcardz
06-03-2013, 07:21 AM
But IMO, I like those pieces.. its just a small bitesize piece of meat. Similar to putting a 'chunk' in the pork box next to the pulled.



The age old competition question comes to mind; are you cooking for yourself or cooking for the judges?

I honestly don't know what I would rate the box, but it probably wouldn't be a 9, because upon first look I found myself saying WTF are those?

boogiesnap
06-03-2013, 07:35 AM
nine all day long. perfect balance of caramelized bits and sheen. as said before it looks BBQ'ed.

personally, i think the thigh "chunks" are pretty clever. i really enjoy the taste and texture of well cooked bbq skin. what i suspect MAY have happened was the skin came all off of the chunks when bitten and got scored down for it. again, for me, i think it'd be delicious.

virginia lawyer
06-03-2013, 07:57 AM
Sometimes you just get unlucky with which table your box goes to. In my last 6 competitions, my chicken has come in 2/27, 4/32, 6/106, 5/60, 33/56 and 2/25. I cook it the same way every time, same seasonings, same raw product, etc., yet the judges in Middletown just hated it for some reason I cannot determine (no comment cards, of course). :rant::rant:

I think your box looks really tasty, but am also thrown off a bit by the pieces down the middle. Would stick to just the thighs next time.

deguerre
06-03-2013, 08:12 AM
9, to me it looks like chicken; BBQ'd chicken.

Who are you and what did you do with Hance?!?





I don't rate by numbers as I'm not qualified to but...the middle pieces are distracting to me. Oh, and...FOCUS!

mobow
06-03-2013, 08:15 AM
I would give this a 8 from the picture and probably a 9 in person. As for the center pieces I am not sure I would do that. When I get that box to judge it makes me have to think what was the cook trying to do here and in this case I think making the judge think is not a good thing. Since it is the same cut of meat with the same flavor profile it just runs the risk of throwing in possible negative factors with no positive factor that I can think of in regards to taste and tenderness. And once you make a judge have to think about your product I think you risk the score going down more that you will see it go up. Keith

TheJackal
06-03-2013, 08:21 AM
nope.. none. :frusty:

It drives me absolutely crazy when you get a 5 or below with no comment card. I can only remember receiving 2 comment cards in 6 years and the last one we got was about 4 years ago. We have received 3s, 4s, and 5s without any comment cards.

If I was an organizer, could I have influence over the use of comment cards at my comp? Could I tell the rep and table captains to not accept a 5 or below without a comment card? Do you think this would affect scoring? (Meaning if a judge was on the fence between a 5 and 6 he gives it a 6 so he doesn't have to fill out a card). Probably a discussion for another thread. Didn't mean to hijack this one.

BTW, Eric (RGC Fire & Spice) said he met judge 6 in Levittown. After the comp a judge was walking around and Eric was chatting with him. He asked how the food was and the response was 'terrible'. Eric thought he was kidding but turns out he was dead serious. 24 entries from teams I know cook some damn good food and he said not a single one was any good. :wacko:

ModelMaker
06-03-2013, 09:07 AM
Well Poobah I personally enjoy something different. My first thoughts were "what the hell are them things" I would not score down for them but my mind is already busy thinking about them.
Color of the meat is great, full box is great. Your garnish is legal so my consideration of it ends there. Your low T/T scores are what they are, individual judges, individual tastes. I would suspect the center pieces were the problem. It looks like you know how to cook thighs.
Might I suggest replacing the leftover thigh meat with perhaps wing flats? That piece of chicken is easily identifyable and instead of wondering what it is you may automaticlly start a Pavlavian response from us wing lovers.
Oh by the way, I think I could give that a 9.
Ed

peterz
06-03-2013, 09:19 AM
Curious.... Why would filling the box with meat be overkill? When we use small thighs, i put 9 in the box which just about covers the entire putting green. The 6 here left gaps, so my thought was to fill the box.


Well, to me its just TOO much stuff in there that does not need
to be there and its making the box too crowded. Also if you think
that your thighs are good then why put more meet in it to
possibly mess up your score.
I would NOT down score because of extra (good) meat but Im
very sure that some others may feel diff. about it.
Anyways, all in all great box and great job.

Slamdunkpro
06-03-2013, 09:32 AM
Apparently you got the same two judges in chicken this week that we had last week in brisket. http://www.divaherself.com/freak3.gif
They must travel as a pair, cause we must of had the same two at our pork table in Salisbury (95th with 5's and 4's . No comment cards - ouch!):shocked:

Hawg Father of Seoul
06-03-2013, 09:42 AM
The chicken looks good, but how was the fish sticks in the middle?

ckelly
06-03-2013, 10:11 AM
God bless the PNWBA! Comment cards are mandatory for all boxes unless special circumstances dictate otherwise.

BTW. Box looks AWESOME. Who gives a crap about the "intent" or "purpose" of the chunks in the middle .. think back to your CBJ training .. DOES THIS BOX MAKE YOU WANT TO EAT IT? YES???! THATS A 9!!!

Goddahavit
06-03-2013, 10:17 AM
It drives me absolutely crazy when you get a 5 or below with no comment card. I can only remember receiving 2 comment cards in 6 years and the last one we got was about 4 years ago. We have received 3s, 4s, and 5s without any comment cards.

If I was an organizer, could I have influence over the use of comment cards at my comp? Could I tell the rep and table captains to not accept a 5 or below without a comment card? Do you think this would affect scoring? (Meaning if a judge was on the fence between a 5 and 6 he gives it a 6 so he doesn't have to fill out a card). Probably a discussion for another thread. Didn't mean to hijack this one.

BTW, Eric (RGC Fire & Spice) said he met judge 6 in Levittown. After the comp a judge was walking around and Eric was chatting with him. He asked how the food was and the response was 'terrible'. Eric thought he was kidding but turns out he was dead serious. 24 entries from teams I know cook some damn good food and he said not a single one was any good. :wacko:


Greg you beat me to it, id probably be 8-7 perhaps 9 in person,

Phil I really like the sound of the thigh trimins, that is some of my favorite bites, i think its a good idea(in theory). Doesn't sound like you got rewarded for thinking outside the box,

If i didnt hear it myself i would have thought the judge 6 was kidding, but he said over a few times nothing good at all. so 24 teams probably got bit@h slapped by 1 judge you can hope he didn't influence anyone else at the table or that can kill a team or teams.

I just have to wonder why he comes out at all?

exhorns
06-03-2013, 10:20 AM
Hey Phil, I feel your pain. We scored 44th in chicken. We don't know what happened either. I know our thighs were not all uniform, but not terrible either. We got killed by 2 of the judges. We had 7's and 8's mostly but the ones who were not as kind gave us 5's and 6's. WHAT??? We tested a piece (not suitable to turn in) prior to putting in the box and skin was bite through and flavor was as usual. No changes in our method either. Were we on the same table? It sure seems like it. Matt

exhorns
06-03-2013, 10:27 AM
If i didnt hear it myself i would have thought the judge 6 was kidding, but he said over a few times nothing good at all. so 24 teams probably got bit@h slapped by 1 judge you can hope he didn't influence anyone else at the table or that can kill a team or teams.

I just have to wonder why he comes out at all?[/QUOTE]

I think I heard someone talking about him. He's like that at all contests. Not cool.

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
06-03-2013, 10:32 AM
If i didnt hear it myself i would have thought the judge 6 was kidding, but he said over a few times nothing good at all. so 24 teams probably got bit@h slapped by 1 judge you can hope he didn't influence anyone else at the table or that can kill a team or teams.

I just have to wonder why he comes out at all?

I spoke with a judge at this contest who flat out didn't know the rules, nice person but scary as heck thinking that they didn't know what was allowed in a chicken box. really scary.

Goddahavit
06-03-2013, 10:34 AM
I spoke with a judge at this contest who flat out didn't know the rules, nice person but scary as heck thinking that they didn't know what was allowed in a chicken box. really scary.

wow, all i can say is wow...:doh:

Sawdustguy
06-03-2013, 10:56 AM
I give it a 9!!! Unfortunately my opinion don't count for Jack Chit.

kwas68
06-03-2013, 12:10 PM
9. Beautiful.
I didn't know what the pieces in the center were, but I wanted to try them.

CBQ
06-03-2013, 01:02 PM
Maybe the judges were allergic to chicken, so just made up a score without tasting it?
(You might think I'm making that up, but happened in recent NEBS grilling event. :shock:)

Bigmista
06-03-2013, 01:24 PM
5.

No reason. You just need your balls busted every now and then.

Seriously, that is a good looking box. 9 easy.

Jacked UP BBQ
06-03-2013, 01:27 PM
I would give it a 5 in PA, 8-9 anywhere else

Slamdunkpro
06-03-2013, 01:48 PM
Good lord man, that's one of the best looking chicken boxes I have ever seen. I would love to see what you think is a 9 because I just tried to reach through the screen and snatch one up. It's BBQ, and it looks BBQ'd and yumdiddlyscrumptious

ELEVEN! Oh wait y'all only go to 9 so a TEN! Definitely a beatiful box.

You're a hard man.



This presentation got some 6's..

We got 7s in presentation

Looks like 7 was the average from the judges on site. Remember a 7 is not a bad score. It also indicates that 9's were outside the range of average for appearance on this box so please report to your local KCBS judge's camp for "re-education":twisted: in accordance with the new KCBS judge tracking software.:wink:

landarc
06-03-2013, 02:06 PM
I think the average of 7 is wrong. I will lower my score to eight, if you see the brown spots as scorching, but, that chicken looks delicious to me, it has an enticing appearance.

Porcine Perfection
06-03-2013, 02:19 PM
I think you may have hit something there. We thought about that yesterday too. We try to be unique and deviate from the normal same ole same ole in presentations... but why would that hurt scores if it looks good. :confused:

Because people aren't comfortable with things out of the ordinary. Sad but true.

I would give this an eight. Of course if this site worked with Tap-a-talk it would get a nine. :grin:

Smokin' Gnome BBQ
06-03-2013, 02:31 PM
I would give it a 5 in PA, 8-9 anywhere else

^^^^that would be funny if it was soooo true..

bbq.tom
06-03-2013, 02:46 PM
9 - Looks great to me! I like getting something additional in the box besides the usual.

TheJackal
06-03-2013, 03:02 PM
I would give it a 5 in PA, 8-9 anywhere else

lol. That one made me laugh!

TheJackal
06-03-2013, 03:03 PM
Greg you beat me to it...

Didn't want to put words in your mouth since I didn't hear it myself first hand but thought it was relevant to the discussion. Thanks for chiming in.

CMALANGA
06-03-2013, 03:29 PM
Ahhh...the age old question. Don't worry Phil we were at the same table as you. I know our appearence wasn't the best because our uniformity was a bit off, but the chicken was bite through and the flavor was spot on. We ended up i nthe basement with you. You also have no idea what the box looked like when it was opened. Did those extra pieces fall over because the table captain mishandled the box? We'll never know. I see 6 beautiful pieces of chicken, glossy, uniform, and I don't mess up spices with charring. You know you know how to cook the bird. Chalk it up to the judges being overheated in the tent.

MilitantSquatter
06-03-2013, 07:02 PM
Great looking box but I can see the pieces down the middle being more of a distraction which take away from the main 6 pcs.

Did those pieces have skin on them too ? They look a little lighter in color than the full thighs but could just be lighting..


That said, I can't see that being anything less than a 7 in appearance. Probably 8, Possibly 9.

BBQchef33
06-03-2013, 07:23 PM
Great looking box but I can see the pieces down the middle being more of a distraction which take away from the main 6 pcs.

Did those pieces have skin on them too ? They look a little lighter in color than the full thighs but could just be lighting..


That said, I can't see that being anything less than a 7 in appearance. Probably 8, Possibly 9.


They had skin on them.. but the skin was scraped to translucent.. They were simply a full thigh, with the sides cut off the bone.