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byerstexas
06-02-2013, 09:54 AM
I saw Tuffy Stone on Barbecue Pitmasters, say that one of the first things he looks for when judging, is a good smoke ring. It's my understanding that because a smoke ring can be artificially induced, consideration of the smoke ring is not allowed in KCBS judging.

I'm wondering if any of you see the popularity of Pitmasters and all the noise that comes out of the judges, as having any impact on the way your turns-ins are judged.

Is it allowed in other judging formats? Or is it just that even though smoke ring consideration is "not allowed" it gets a nod and a wink (and some consideration) anyway, in a below the radar kind of way?

Look forward to hearing y'all's thoughts.

Pappy Q
06-02-2013, 09:59 AM
Nothing they say has any impact on my turn ins

Swamp Donkeyz BBQ
06-02-2013, 10:17 AM
I think people will judge you on your smoke ring even if it's subconsciously. A good smoke ring is pretty.

Podge
06-02-2013, 10:37 AM
I think people will judge you on your smoke ring even if it's subconsciously. A good smoke ring is pretty.

I fully agree!!.. i turned in a brisket in Knoxville with no smoke ring and it just didn't look good.. boring...

Skip
06-02-2013, 11:27 AM
I think the ruling on the smoke ring is that you should not add to your appearance score "because it has an awesome smoke ring" but the overall look can be determined with the smoke ring. I think what they don't want you to do is rate it an 8 and then say, "Oh wait! I am going to give the 9 because thats an awesome smoke ring". Don't let the individual appearance of a smoke ring further inflate your overall perception. Smoke ring can make the meat looks exceptional and therefore is still part of the appearance score but not the whole reason for it.

If that makes no sense I am sorry. Trying to find the best way to explain myself. Don't think I was able.

fnbish
06-02-2013, 12:06 PM
I think people will judge you on your smoke ring even if it's subconsciously. A good smoke ring is pretty.

Very much this :thumb:.

Lake Dogs
06-02-2013, 01:42 PM
Tuffy isn't a judge; competes and owns his restaurants. Plus, they're not judging to any sanctioning body standard. Dont read much into this at all. They're just describing what good lookin' BBQ should look like.

Personally I prefer the brisket smoke ring definition in MBN.

Skip
06-02-2013, 04:32 PM
Tuffy isn't a judge; competes and owns his restaurants. Plus, they're not judging to any sanctioning body standard. Dont read much into this at all. They're just describing what good lookin' BBQ should look like.

Personally I prefer the brisket smoke ring definition in MBN.

Would love to hear it. Can you post a link? Being in the Northeast KCBS and the Brethren have been my influences.

Slamdunkpro
06-02-2013, 04:45 PM
I saw Tuffy Stone on Barbecue Pitmasters, say that one of the first things he looks for when judging, is a good smoke ring. It's my understanding that because a smoke ring can be artificially induced, consideration of the smoke ring is not allowed in KCBS judging.

I'm wondering if any of you see the popularity of Pitmasters and all the noise that comes out of the judges, as having any impact on the way your turns-ins are judged.

Is it allowed in other judging formats? Or is it just that even though smoke ring consideration is "not allowed" it gets a nod and a wink (and some consideration) anyway, in a below the radar kind of way?

Look forward to hearing y'all's thoughts.
I absolutely think Pitmasters has influenced KCBS judging, especially new judges.

Butt Rubb'n BBQ
06-02-2013, 05:10 PM
My next door neighbor judges a lot of KCBS comps and he says he doesn't.

CivilWarBBQ
06-02-2013, 05:53 PM
Interesting topic - not so much the smoke ring question, but the larger issue of how TV shows have affected what we do at competitions.

I recently had a John Q Public inquire as to "what time the judging would be" at an upcoming contest I manage. I believe it was a direct result of this person watching television - they expected to be able to view a public judging display as on BBQ Pitmasters.

Lake Dogs
06-02-2013, 07:38 PM
Would love to hear it. Can you post a link? Being in the Northeast KCBS and the Brethren have been my influences.

Skip, sorry, was my pitiful attempt at humor.

MBN is pork only; MBN being ribs, whole shoulder, and whole hog...

BMerrill
06-02-2013, 08:13 PM
BBQ Pitmasters is a cooking game show.
Sure the contestants have some relationship to cooking BBQ, many on the KCBS BBQ circuit and some have been resturarant owners. The judges are well know professional BBQ competitors and restaurant owners. Judging does resemble and the viewer may believe that this is how BBQ contest are judged. Sure there are some similarities with the show and actual judging and how BBQ is prepared on the circuit, but the show is entertainment not educational programming.

Muzzlebrake
06-02-2013, 09:41 PM
Smoke ring is not only not to be taken in consideration when judging and is explicitly stated so at 10:08 mark of the audio instructions judges are required to listen to before each contest.

That being said I received comment cards that said I needed to improve my smoke ring.

peterz
06-02-2013, 10:49 PM
Its a TV show ..................
My day job is motion picture ( TV ) and my off time is BBQ and KCBS CBJ.
Those two worlds are a world a part.
Just my 2c

Dragline
06-03-2013, 06:58 AM
I'm with Pappy.

Pelkster
06-03-2013, 09:48 AM
I think that the show has had some influence on the current state of competition BBQ. This is both good and bad. While it promotes the sport of Q, it also sets some unrealistic expectations with the public. The show doesn't show all of the work that goes into making great Q, and I've actually had JQ Public come by while I was prepping some brisket and say "Well that's not what they did on TV." Overall, the exposure has been great and the more people get involved the better off we'll be.

The one thing I take away from the show is the variety of turn in boxes. I see what they are doing and the wheels start turning about what I would do if it were my turn in. I've already got some ideas about how I might change some of my entries. Of course I don't want to duplicate what I see on TV because the judges will probably notice that and say to themselves "I just saw this box on TV" and that alone might hurt my appearance scores.

I'd be interested in seeing a scoring sheet from the show. The "winner-take-all" finale they re-aired this weekend stated that each box was rated from 1-13, and a perfect score was a 78. I wonder what criteria they were using?

Just my thoughts for the day!

Sawdustguy
06-03-2013, 11:04 AM
Like a previous poster said, Tuffy Stone probably has never judged a KCBS contest and his comments are his own opinion. It is unfortunate that some of the viewers may judge KCBS contests and take his word as Gospel.

Slamdunkpro
06-03-2013, 11:41 AM
BBQ Pitmasters is a cooking game show.
Sure the contestants have some relationship to cooking BBQ, many on the KCBS BBQ circuit and some have been resturarant owners. The judges are well know professional BBQ competitors and restaurant owners. Judging does resemble and the viewer may believe that this is how BBQ contest are judged. Sure there are some similarities with the show and actual judging and how BBQ is prepared on the circuit, but the show is entertainment not educational programming.

Its a TV show ..................
My day job is motion picture ( TV ) and my off time is BBQ and KCBS CBJ.
Those two worlds are a world a part.
Just my 2c

Not really, at least to new judges. Think about how much influence CBJ instructor comments like:


If a box has nothing but chopped brisket it's probably because the cook over cooked it
Brisket slices should be about the thickness of a #2 pencil, if they are thinner the cook is trying to hide that they undercooked the brisket. If they are thicker, they overcooked it.
Cooks "Hollywood" cut ribs when they overcook them

have on how new judges score (and yes I've hear all these and more in CBJ classes). Now you have Pitmaster judges saying things like "the first thing I look for is a nice smoke ring" or "I expect to see burnt ends in the box" going out to a huge audience of judges that have little to no experience in the tent. The two may be world's apart to those of us who have some experience and can separate the TV show from a comp but I suspect it has more influence that we might care to think.