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View Full Version : Pork Turn In Box - I'm open to feedback *PRON


sigpi906
05-20-2013, 10:31 AM
This was our first time building garnished boxes for a competition. Thanks to all the brethren who gave me tips and advice on what to do... and more importantly, what NOT to do.

I'm open to any constructive criticism you guys are willing to offer... Always looking to improve.

We got the 3rd place call at the Buzz BQ in Little Rock, AR with this box on Saturday. It's a non-sanctioned event with the rules based mostly on KCBS standards. We won't have score sheets for another week, so I can't post any scores yet.

code3rrt
05-20-2013, 10:33 AM
Congrats!

I'm not a comp guy, so no advice, looks good to me.

KC

Johnny_Crunch
05-20-2013, 10:36 AM
Looks pretty good. I may have had a little less bark showing on the left side. More balance perhaps.

1FUNVET
05-20-2013, 11:08 AM
Looks good to me.

Phubar
05-20-2013, 11:15 AM
Posted a similair thread not too long ago...GTR suggested that I should post it in the Competition section of the Phorum for more Pheedback.

SmokeDiddy
05-20-2013, 11:17 AM
I don't do comps, but the box looks pretty good to me. I suspect that if you were 3rd place, it was probably nitpicking. Then again, I don't do comps so take my comment with a grain of salt.

sigpi906
05-20-2013, 11:19 AM
Yeah, J... I didn't see that until I got back to the tent and looked at the picture. It's amazing what you see in a picture that never seems to reveal itself in real life.

Lake Dogs
05-20-2013, 01:36 PM
I DO comps and am a CBJ in addition to being a fellow competitor. The pic is a little dark (lighting), but:

a) the garnish is getting a bit much, to the point of being distracting. The closer to a putting green you can get, the better. Think of it as "background framing"... Set the meat actually on top of it vs. what appears to almost be "in" it.

b) personally, I LOVE that the meat looks like meat! However, sometimes I'm in a minority where this is concerned. There is allllmost an expectation that it'll have sliced Money Muscle nowadays. Me, you're getting either an 8 or 9 on presentation/appearance, depending on actually how dark the bark is/was. The pic looks very dark, but in actuality it was probably a bit lighter...

Jaskew82
05-20-2013, 01:41 PM
I looked at it for about 10 seconds (rough amount of time a CBJ gets to see a turnin box to judge) and here are my thoughts...

Garnish is not very enticing. I know you aren't supposed to be judged on garnish but I do believe that it effects the overall appearance of the meat. Be careful to make sure all of the parley is the same type of leaf. Also make sure it is all uniform is size, shape and height in the box.

Consider large pieces of meat. I find that pulled or chopped meats cool quickly and thus lose taste. Additionally, larger pieces are easier to shape into a more uniform size which ultimately is more pleasing to the eye.

I would score this box probably at a 7 or 8 overall appearance. Not bad at all. Good work and keep it up.

grantw
05-20-2013, 01:43 PM
wouldn't you want less black on it for a comp? just seems like it should have been shielded from the smoke abit, im sure it tastes deadly its just not as purdy as it could be

grantw
05-20-2013, 01:47 PM
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l608/centorph/porkbox_zps52fcf7d1.jpg
like that?

Jaskew82
05-20-2013, 01:56 PM
Grant, I like that box. Though I don't love the leafy lettuce garnish, but that is just my opinion. The sliced money muscle could be neater but overall, a fantastic box. Probably a 9.

sigpi906
05-20-2013, 03:10 PM
I DO comps and am a CBJ in addition to being a fellow competitor. The pic is a little dark (lighting), but:

a) the garnish is getting a bit much, to the point of being distracting. The closer to a putting green you can get, the better. Think of it as "background framing"... Set the meat actually on top of it vs. what appears to almost be "in" it.

b) personally, I LOVE that the meat looks like meat! However, sometimes I'm in a minority where this is concerned. There is allllmost an expectation that it'll have sliced Money Muscle nowadays. Me, you're getting either an 8 or 9 on presentation/appearance, depending on actually how dark the bark is/was. The pic looks very dark, but in actuality it was probably a bit lighter...

I wanted to cut the money muscle and provide slices, but as it turns out, a competition is not the place to learn how to do that. I'd never done it before and was unprepared for how tender it was. It just fell apart under my knife. Who knew cutting pork that had been cooked to 200* would prove so difficult. I'm going to start working on this.

When you say that you're in a minority in liking that the meat looks like meat... what do you mean? What are people doing that makes it not look like meat?

aawa
05-20-2013, 03:26 PM
I wanted to cut the money muscle and provide slices, but as it turns out, a competition is not the place to learn how to do that. I'd never done it before and was unprepared for how tender it was. It just fell apart under my knife. Who knew cutting pork that had been cooked to 200* would prove so difficult. I'm going to start working on this.

When you say that you're in a minority in liking that the meat looks like meat... what do you mean? What are people doing that makes it not look like meat?

I have seen a couple threads on here with people doing their pulled pork for competition. The pieces were very manicured, same size, etc that when I saw the picture, I thought I was looking at a pile of wet playdoh pieces of meat as opposed to real meat.

Big M1ke
05-20-2013, 03:53 PM
Looks good enough to eat :thumb:

peterz
05-20-2013, 05:41 PM
Hi.
I am KCBS CBJ. Your box looks great.A little too much garnish but then again
its all about the meat and NOT about the garnish =).
Little too heavy bark on left side of your box.
All in all I would say 8.
If that box was in front of me, I would not be able to wait to try some of it.
It looks FANTASTIC.
Hope this helps.

hogzillas
05-20-2013, 05:53 PM
CBJ as well, it looks very good but not perfect a solid 8 IMO on a feeling good day I might give a 9. maybe a bit too saucy hard to really tell if it's just drizzled on some pieces or is slathered on all pieces

You might also want to post in on BBQ Critic.com for some more reviews

Southern Home Boy
05-20-2013, 06:26 PM
As a CBJ, I agree with most of what the others have said:
1. Too much garnish. The parsley looks like it's swallowing the meat. I'm not judging the garnish, per se, but in this case, it does detract from the overall look of the meat.

2. That said, the meat looks awesome. As a cook, I always try to get those thumb-sized chunks. Money muscle might have helped, but only if it was really well done. I think you made the right choice by keeping it out if it didn't slice well.

From me, a solid 8. Get the meat unburied from the garnish and it goes to 9.

Lake Dogs
05-20-2013, 06:38 PM
I wanted to cut the money muscle and provide slices, but as it turns out, a competition is not the place to learn how to do that. I'd never done it before and was unprepared for how tender it was. It just fell apart under my knife. Who knew cutting pork that had been cooked to 200* would prove so difficult. I'm going to start working on this.

When you say that you're in a minority in liking that the meat looks like meat... what do you mean? What are people doing that makes it not look like meat?

aawa explained it pretty good, and sorry to be confusing in my writing. I think you can over-sculpt it so that it no longer looks like meat, and worse, could bring in imagery of something really nasty. For example, some chicken entries look like christmas balls; no longer looking like something edible. I've seen 2 entries, I swear, you couldnt tell that they weren't baked potatoes... Some money muscle entries are sliced and cooked in such a way that they look like dog feces. I've seen other pork entries that look like cat food. Again, imagery that doesn't say "Hey, just just gotta eat this" to me... Others, apparently they dont see the images, or they really want to eat dog ****. I dont know...

Yours, to me, looked liked pulled pork that I wanted to eat. Was a little dark on the bark, but otherwise very nice.

What I was saying about the MM; some have come to expect it, like burnt ends in brisket. They shouldn't, but they do... However, from me, I'd say that 30% of the MM's are undercooked and a tad tough or overly fatty, another 30% are overcooked and mushy. In these cases they take away from the other pork (and have in my scoring). But, when it's done just right, and presented so that it doesnt look like a turd, it helps.

CBQ
05-20-2013, 07:00 PM
Grant's box had the pinkish red of the smoke ring on the pork, which was missing from the OP's box. My first reaction to the OP's box was "where is the pink?"

Yes, judge's aren't supposed to judge smoke ring, but color could also come from sauce. The OP's box was a little monochromatic for me.

jmoney7269
05-20-2013, 09:41 PM
Both plate look good. The OP looks like some something I would wanna put on a sandwich and get my fat kid on with, the other looks like something to be eaten as finger food. Each judged on their own merit of taste and tenderness. Shame on those who would even consider judging down due to garnish not being perfect. It's there for contrast and nothing else. BUT...... As long as kcbs allows people to put salad in meat competitions, they are gonna get judged on it. This is a prime example of why garnish should not be allowed. Let the meat do the talkin to my taste buds and that's it! Building perfect putting green boxes for hrs is stupid! That's time taken away from cooking great BBQ!

sigpi906
05-20-2013, 09:47 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. It's hard to read the negative comments sometimes, but I know its all in helping people get better at what they like to do. I really thought the garnish looked better in person, but I also know that in the heat of the moment with a few beers in you, the picture is the honest rendition of what you really turned in. I can see all the flaws you guys point out.

With regard to the smoke ring... I'm not sure what happened there. I smoked it on a UDS with pecan mixed into the coal basket at differing depths and plenty on the top of the basket to hit the meat early with smoke. I couldn't believe that it didn't have any pink in it. Is it possible I could cook out the color by getting too hot? I've never heard of that, but this is probably the hottest I've ever cooked a butt.

Butt Rubb'n BBQ
05-20-2013, 10:15 PM
First box needs some work. Looks a little dry and where is the MM. Need some different shapes or patterns. Congrats on your first comp. Grants box is a better example. See how the meats glistens and has different patterns.

Lake Dogs
05-21-2013, 08:39 AM
... Shame on those who would even consider judging down due to garnish not being perfect. It's there for contrast and nothing else. ...

I for one wasnt scoring based on the garnish, but you're right, especially when it actually gets in the way of the meat, there's almost no way to not factor it in... I merely was recommending that if he cleans it up a little, sets the meat on top vs. "in" it that it'll frame the meat better and give a cleaner presentation.

deguerre
05-21-2013, 08:45 AM
The only problem I'm having is a lack of balance, visually. But this is BBQ, not an art critique.:grin: Does the presentation make me hungry for some? HELL yeah. That's the point of appearance, yes?

Lake Dogs
05-21-2013, 08:51 AM
That's the point of appearance, yes?

Yes. It's not nor never has been about making a sculpture. It's BBQ, to be judged on whether it makes you want to dive in and hit it. If it's saying (to you) "you must eat me right now", then that's a 9 (in KCBS land). That's all there is to it.

deguerre
05-21-2013, 08:55 AM
Yep. That bark gave me an OMG experience. I do love my bark.

Full Draw BBQ
05-21-2013, 09:18 AM
the difference between first and third could be ONE 9 vs an 8.........so I would say 3rd place is awesome!!!!!!! Congrats!!!

Jacked UP BBQ
05-21-2013, 01:30 PM
For the original box posted. I like the idea where you were headed with the box. For competition purposes, more sauce, smooth out the chucks a little so there are no strands laying around. Wrap your meat earlier to lighten up the bark. Once you set the pork in the box, push down the parsley so it is even around the pork. oh did I mention more sauce!

Bentley
05-21-2013, 04:33 PM
Judge what's in the box, not what you think should be in the box.

First box needs some work. Looks a little dry and where is the MM.