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sdmiller72
04-21-2013, 06:11 PM
Hi all, hope someone can help. I am entering my second IBCA contest and want to know about scoring. I've seen pictures from comps where judges are holding an 'Official Scoring Sheet,' but the resolution was not enough that I could read the text. I've searced the net, but could not find a sheet. Any help. What are the judges instructed to look for? And anyone know where I can find a blank sheet for reference? Any help would be appreciated.

jmoney7269
04-21-2013, 07:14 PM
They are not instructed to look for anything. They are volunteer judges from the crowd and it clearly states in the rules that any team member besides the head cook can judge. So the judging of your turn in is totally subjective. So don't be supprised if you see some teams running in to judge their own product. This is the main reason I don't hardly ever cook IBCA. Also this weekend in my judging I also saw many boxes that had saucing done after slicing, some even had seasoning sprinkled in between the slices. One box had slices 1/2" thick. I asked the promoter everytime if these boxes were legal, and he said to just judge it. Kind of a poor enforcement of the rules IMO.

JS-TX
04-21-2013, 07:14 PM
Try this:

http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz184/js-tx/BBQ/2012-01-28131349.jpg (http://s826.photobucket.com/user/js-tx/media/BBQ/2012-01-28131349.jpg.html)

jmoney7269
04-21-2013, 07:23 PM
The single most piece of helpful advice I can give you, it cook everything fork tender but not falling apart. They are sampling with plastic forks and knives. Don't worry so much about Appearance, it's pretty much all about taste.

Southern Krunk BBQ Societ
04-21-2013, 07:23 PM
Can't necessarily help with all that, but my advice. First, remember they will be using a plastic fork and plastic knife, so you may have to overcook as compared to kcbs. Second, they are told to smell for smoke, but that said, wouldn't over smoke. Although you can't puddle sauce, you best add some dang sauce...hope that helps some and good luck!

RangerJ
04-21-2013, 07:28 PM
They are not instructed to look for anything. They are volunteer judges from the crowd and it clearly states in the rules that any team member besides the head cook can judge. So the judging of your turn in is totally subjective. So don't be supprised if you see some teams running in to judge their own product. This is the main reason I don't hardly ever cook IBCA. Also this weekend in my judging I also saw many boxes that had saucing done after slicing, some even had seasoning sprinkled in between the slices. One box had slices 1/2" thick. I asked the promoter everytime if these boxes were legal, and he said to just judge it. Kind of a poor enforcement of the rules IMO.

The 1/2 inch slices should not have passed whoever was taking the boxes, mine have been sent back on more than one occassion when I over cooked and had to slice them thick.

As for your other two examples, nothing in the rules says you can't sauce after slicing and seasoning is not even mentioned.

JS-TX
04-21-2013, 07:32 PM
Can't necessarily help with all that, but my advice. First, remember they will be using a plastic fork and plastic knife, so you may have to overcook as compared to kcbs. Second, they are told to smell for smoke, but that said, wouldn't over smoke. Although you can't puddle sauce, you best add some dang sauce...hope that helps some and good luck!

You got to be careful, these are from the IBCA website:
Meats may be cooked with sauces and/or other liquids, but once the cooking is complete, sauces and/or liquids may not be added once put into tray. NO PUDDLING IN BOTTOM OF TRAY.

Very grey area here, cause of course cooking is complete, but can you add spices/sauce if it's not in the box yet??

jmoney7269
04-21-2013, 08:20 PM
Can't necessarily help with all that, but my advice. First, remember they will be using a plastic fork and plastic knife, so you may have to overcook as compared to kcbs. Second, they are told to smell for smoke, but that said, wouldn't over smoke. Although you can't puddle sauce, you best add some dang sauce...hope that helps some and good luck!

Good advise, but depending where he is cooking at, and depending on his cooking style, your last tip might not be so advisable. In our area, the last 3 comps I have competed and 2 that I have judged, the 1st place rib was just a dry rib cooked with a really flavorful mop, not sweet

jmoney7269
04-21-2013, 08:27 PM
You got to be careful, these are from the IBCA website:
Meats may be cooked with sauces and/or other liquids, but once the cooking is complete, sauces and/or liquids may not be added once put into tray. NO PUDDLING IN BOTTOM OF TRAY.

Very grey area here, cause of course cooking is complete, but can you add spices/sauce if it's not in the box yet??

Good catch. I guess technically your right. It's all about how you dissect words. Definitely a gray area.

@rangerJ
Your right too upon looking carefully looking At the rules. My perception was wrong. Not that I'm gonna change any of my comp methods at this point.

sdmiller72
04-21-2013, 08:38 PM
Thanks for your help. I was curious after the first IBCA comp and no scoring sheets to review.

sdmiller72
04-21-2013, 08:46 PM
Meats may be cooked with sauces and/or other liquids, but once the cooking is complete, sauces and/or liquids may not be added once put into tray. NO PUDDLING IN BOTTOM OF TRAY.

Very grey area here, cause of course cooking is complete, but can you add spices/sauce if it's not in the box yet??

If I had to go lawyer on the rule, I would interpret the rule to mean 'don't sauce the meat after you place it in the box.' Otherwise,why qualify the rule with "once put in the tray?"

ZILLA
04-25-2013, 10:48 PM
Can't necessarily help with all that, but my advice. First, remember they will be using a plastic fork and plastic knife, so you may have to overcook as compared to kcbs. Second, they are told to smell for smoke, but that said, wouldn't over smoke. Although you can't puddle sauce, you best add some dang sauce...hope that helps some and good luck!

IBCA judges do not instruct the tasting judges to smell for smoke but for pleasing aroma. That must be one judge taking matters into his own hands, it happens.

The sauce rule is just as it states. Do not add sauce after the meat is in the box, no pooling in the bottom of the box. I think that is very clear.

ZILLA
04-25-2013, 11:02 PM
Thanks for your help. I was curious after the first IBCA comp and no scoring sheets to review.

The IBCA scoring system is not designed to give the cooker any feedback. If you saw the score sheet it wouldn't tell you anything because of the double blind system. You wouldn't know what scores were yours.

In addition, without specific, direct feedback from a judge you couldn't tell why the scored you low.

Did they score you low because they don't like a dark appearance and another because they don't like a shiny sauced look? Or perhaps one judge likes a firm brisket and yours was too tender or vice versa.

So you can see why the score sheets won't help. Besides every judges score is subjective anyway.

Working the judging area is the only real way to learn. Scores and cookers opinions don't tell you what you need to know to improve. Judging a few contests a year will.

Best regards,

Darwin "Zilla" Hoel

IBCA Judging official
Pit Boss IBCA South Texas Pit

JS-TX
04-26-2013, 12:48 PM
The IBCA scoring system is not designed to give the cooker any feedback. If you saw the score sheet it wouldn't tell you anything because of the double blind system. You wouldn't know what scores were yours.

In addition, without specific, direct feedback from a judge you couldn't tell why the scored you low.

Did they score you low because they don't like a dark appearance and another because they don't like a shiny sauced look? Or perhaps one judge likes a firm brisket and yours was too tender or vice versa.

So you can see why the score sheets won't help. Besides every judges score is subjective anyway.

Working the judging area is the only real way to learn. Scores and cookers opinions don't tell you what you need to know to improve. Judging a few contests a year will.

Best regards,

Darwin "Zilla" Hoel

IBCA Judging official
Pit Boss IBCA South Texas Pit

Zilla is right, you can learn a lot of whats winning or doing well in a particular comp. The "winning flavor" from comp to comp can vary but if you help judge a few you get an idea of what's scoring well in general. I'm still learning but I think the few bbq comps I helped judged has helped me.

Zilla, thanks for the clarifcation on the rules :becky:

sdmiller72
04-26-2013, 08:39 PM
Thanks for the info.