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gapabral
04-14-2013, 09:21 PM
Have a contest coming up next week so have been practicing ribs alot. Have tried ribs from costco, restaurant depot and a local butcher. Every time I have used ribs from the local butcher(twice), I am getting shiners after I remove from the foil. Coincidence? The local butcher is getting the ribs from a local farmer which I like. He also cuts the ribs st. louis style for me. There does not appear to be shiners when I purchase the ribs. I would like to get the ribs from the butcher but obviously cannot have the shiner issue.

I am cooking the spares at 275 for 2 hours and then foiling for one hour at 275.

Any thoughts to why this may be occurring?

thank you

jmoney7269
04-14-2013, 09:26 PM
Are you putting the meat in the foil meat side down? If not that might be the problem. Also foiling in general your gonna have that. I would Reccomend you try butcher paper instead of foil, it actually lets the meat breathe instead of boiling it like foil. Good luck at your next comp. feel free to pm me

Ron_L
04-14-2013, 09:37 PM
If there are no visible shiners on the raw ribs, but they are there after cooking then are you trimming them or anything that will cause the shiners?

If I start with raw ribs with no shiners I've never had any created during cooking, and I do foil comp ribs.

Can the butcher leave a little more meat on the ribs for you? that may help.

Junebug
04-14-2013, 09:44 PM
More than likely the butcher is cutting the ribs too thin to start with. As the ribs render out during the cook, the bones become exposed.

jmoney7269
04-14-2013, 09:45 PM
Look at these racks. They were foiled and we did not start with shiners. Also I blame removing the membrane. I didn't anymore once I figured this out. Leaving the membrane on also creates a juicier rib. I'm sure there will be lots who disagree that a good comp rib has to have the membrane removed, but I have never heard of this as a mandatory prerequisite step in the prep
I was sick when I saw that. We had to get all our ribs from 2 racks, 18 ribs in one box.
http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac174/justinmargist/8fac6951.jpg

Ron_L
04-14-2013, 09:49 PM
This may just be semantics, but to me a shiner is the bone showing through on the meat side of the ribs, not the bone popping out on the back like that. I've seen that once in a while but that's not what I call a shiner.

yakdung
04-14-2013, 09:51 PM
Look at these racks. They were foiled and we did not start with shiners. Also I blame removing the membrane. I didn't anymore once I figured this out. Leaving the membrane on also creates a juicier rib. I'm sure there will be lots who disagree that a good comp rib has to have the membrane removed, but I have never heard of this as a mandatory prerequisite step in the prep
I was sick when I saw that. We had to get all our ribs from 2 racks, 18 ribs in one box.
http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac174/justinmargist/8fac6951.jpg

J$, A couple of questions if you please. What knife are you in the photo a Russell maybe? Williams Rib Tickler any good? Also, a famous BBQ joint in Houston never removes the membrane from their ribs. Thanks!

gapabral
04-14-2013, 09:54 PM
The shiners I am referring to are on the bone side. I think you might be correct with cutting them too thin and not leaving enough meat on the bone side. Is it possible for them to leave more meat on the bone side.

I have heard that other competitors use this same butcher and have had great success.

sure appreciate your reponses.

jmoney7269
04-14-2013, 10:00 PM
J$, A couple of questions if you please. What knife are you in the photo a Russell maybe? Williams Rib Tickler any good? Also, a famous BBQ joint in Houston never removes the membrane from their ribs. Thanks!

That is a 12" dexter we use for ribs, we use a victorinox for brisket. I really want that MABA wustof grand brisker slicer, im just not responsible enough with that expensive of a knife. Williams rib tickler is good but plowboys yardbird, Reo, lantana of tx, or Harley's are superior.

Junebug
04-14-2013, 10:09 PM
The shiners I am referring to are on the bone side. I think you might be correct with cutting them too thin and not leaving enough meat on the bone side. Is it possible for them to leave more meat on the bone side.

I have heard that other competitors use this same butcher and have had great success.

sure appreciate your reponses.

I would definitely ask the butcher about it. It was either a mistake on the butcher's part or they did it on purpose to end up with a thicker pork belly.

Sorry, I misread. I thought we were talking about the meat side, not the membrane side. We had a problem with a couple racks of ribs this weekend where the butcher cut them too thin on the meat side. The ribs looked fine until they came out of the foil and we had developed shiners on the meat side. Sorry for the confusion.

CBQ
04-14-2013, 10:09 PM
Also, a famous BBQ joint in Houston never removes the membrane from their ribs. Thanks!

In my experience, most restaurants leave the membrane on, but i think it's just because they can't be bothered to remove it. The papery taste is a distraction.

Q-Dat
04-14-2013, 10:09 PM
Look at these racks. They were foiled and we did not start with shiners. Also I blame removing the membrane. I didn't anymore once I figured this out. Leaving the membrane on also creates a juicier rib. I'm sure there will be lots who disagree that a good comp rib has to have the membrane removed, but I have never heard of this as a mandatory prerequisite step in the prep
I was sick when I saw that. We had to get all our ribs from 2 racks, 18 ribs in one box.
http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac174/justinmargist/8fac6951.jpg

J$ are you sure you didn't remove both membranes? Theres a thocker top membrane and then a really thin one underneath. I always leave the bottom layer and never have that problem with the bones.

Q-Dat
04-14-2013, 10:12 PM
The shiners I am referring to are on the bone side. I think you might be correct with cutting them too thin and not leaving enough meat on the bone side. Is it possible for them to leave more meat on the bone side.

I have heard that other competitors use this same butcher and have had great success.

sure appreciate your reponses.


There actually is no meat on the bone side. Ony the membrane.

jmoney7269
04-14-2013, 10:16 PM
J$ are you sure you didn't remove both membranes? Theres a thocker top membrane and then a really thin one underneath. I always leave the bottom layer and never have that problem with the bones.

Only the thin one. We cook alot hotter than you (300-325) so if left in the foil longer than 45 min it happens alot.

Q-Dat
04-14-2013, 10:40 PM
Only the thin one. We cook alot hotter than you (300-325) so if left in the foil longer than 45 min it happens alot.

Ah ok that's actually the temp range I cook ribs at as well, but I don't foil ribs anymore and haven't for a while. And when I did foil I was cooking 225-250

CivilWarBBQ
04-14-2013, 11:45 PM
Every time a rib with a membrane has hit a table I was on the judges marked it down for tenderness. I would not leave them if I were you - figure out where your problem is in the cooking process and fix that instead.

One idea I can share - I've seen this happen when you get too hot in the foil boats and begin steaming the ribs instead of braising them. If this is the case, it helps to not seal the boats completely. Leave four inches or so of unsealed seam at the top center of the packet to allow the steam to escape.

jmoney7269
04-14-2013, 11:57 PM
I like the results from a Hott and fast cook to a low and slow. That's why we always cook 3 slabs because we know we gonna screw some up. Hott and fast is a way way way less forgiving cook style than low and slow.

JS-TX
04-15-2013, 09:44 AM
My rib method is similar to the OP. I will sometimes get shiners on the bottom of the ribs closer to the edge. It does help to have thicker ribs. I just pick the best ribs from the middle of the 4 racks I cook.

columbia1
04-15-2013, 09:55 AM
Normally when I see my ribs pop like that it is a sure sign I slightly over-cooked them and they will be mushy.

hogzgonewild
04-15-2013, 11:41 AM
Gowan (CivilWarBBQ) is spot on. The ribs bones will pop out of the back any time you leave them in the foil for too long or too hot.

I've had that problem quite a bit when I overcook my ribs. This is why I start checking mine about 15 minutes earlier than the projected time of unwrapping.

Nothing worse than going through 6 racks of ribs trying to find 1 or 2 from each one to make a complete box!

gapabral
04-15-2013, 01:40 PM
Would it be helpful or possible to cook the ribs with the membrane on and then after they have cooked, go ahead and remove the membrane after foiling?

Thinking is that with the membrane on while cooking it may hold the bone in place better?

Might be that I should quit thinking :-P

thank you guys

Eggspert
04-15-2013, 04:40 PM
Looking at the picture of the ribs poking out the back, I am wondering if you are removing the second membrane off the back of the ribs. There is a thin membrane, then a layer of fat, then a thicker white membrane that should stay on. It appears to me you are getting under that thicker white membrane.

We occasionally have a rib push through on the very end of the rack, but I have never seen anything like your photo before. Good luck solving the problem!

Eggspert

RangerJ
04-16-2013, 11:07 AM
To the OP...

I've never had foil cause a shiner that I did not know was already going to be there. It's typically something I find when I purchase the Sam's package of 3 slabs and can't look at all the ribs.

gapabral
04-16-2013, 03:33 PM
CivilWarBBQ- If I was to leave 4 inches unsealed at the top, how would that affect the time in foil. Right now, I am doing 1 hour at 275.

If I started checking at 45 minutes, would that be too soon?

how long do you leave in foil and at what temp?

thank you

Outnumbered
04-16-2013, 07:43 PM
More than likely the butcher is cutting the ribs too thin to start with. As the ribs render out during the cook, the bones become exposed.

It's like you've had experience with this or something... :becky:

gacman
04-16-2013, 10:21 PM
Looking at the picture of the ribs poking out the back, I am wondering if you are removing the second membrane off the back of the ribs. There is a thin membrane, then a layer of fat, then a thicker white membrane that should stay on. It appears to me you are getting under that thicker white membrane.

We occasionally have a rib push through on the very end of the rack, but I have never seen anything like your photo before. Good luck solving the problem!

Eggspert

X2

It looks to me like you are removing both membranes.

CivilWarBBQ
04-16-2013, 11:02 PM
CivilWarBBQ- If I was to leave 4 inches unsealed at the top, how would that affect the time in foil. Right now, I am doing 1 hour at 275.

If I started checking at 45 minutes, would that be too soon?

how long do you leave in foil and at what temp?

thank you

One possibility is that your butcher is pulling the membranes for you - that often is done when cutting down to St. Louis. Then you get them and think you need to pull more, but you are actually stripping them completely...

You don't need to leave the boats wide open, just leave enough gap in the foil for any steam to escape. It shouldn't affect your timetable, but from the looks of that pic you may be overcooking anyway. Assuming you are foiling meat side down and your sugars are not scorching in the foil, I would start with your existing time and work down from there as needed. One of the keys to adjusting a recipe is to only change one thing at a time, otherwise you can't be sure which factor did what.

Good luck!

BMinahan
04-17-2013, 05:21 AM
You are either removing both membranes or over cooking them.

manbearpig
04-17-2013, 08:09 PM
You should double check with your butcher that he didn't pull the first membrane off already. gtm

Southern Home Boy
04-18-2013, 01:05 PM
J$ are you sure you didn't remove both membranes? Theres a thocker top membrane and then a really thin one underneath. I always leave the bottom layer and never have that problem with the bones.

^^^What he said.

take the thick top layer off but leave the inner layer. UNLESS you want to make McRib sandwiches. In that case, foil them a little longer and then pull the; bones completely out. Put the full slab inside a nice crispy crusted italian loaf, slather in sauce and top with chopped onions and dills.

All_grilla_no_filla
04-22-2013, 05:27 PM
...there may be several issues that have caused your result. I do think that you've probably removed the inner membrane as well. Also, are you cooking with steam in your cooker? If so, try not foiling. It will lead to a better quality product, and I think you'll have solved your problem. It looks like you may be cooking pretty warm, and your ribs are just steaming to mush in your foil. I'd bet the meat is also somewhat mushy and lacks texture as well, perhaps?

My competition ribs turn out great, and when I stopped foiling and just added some cooking time my scores improved dramatically, and my end product along with it. Try to just leave 'em in the cooker (225-230 max), with adequate humidity in the environment, and just cook them about 6-1/2-7 hours or so total. I'll usually start spritzing after 2-3 hours (by sight, I know when I want to start), and do it once every 30-45 minutes during the cook. With 45 minutes to go I glaze, and then I do it two more times, in 15-minute increments. They come out great every time.

Hope you're able to get it all where you like it in short order :first: