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BrewerDJ
04-08-2013, 02:09 PM
We just competed in our 2nd contest, Williepallooza, and in the cooks meeting they told us they were changing the scoring weighting system. Giving more weight to tenderness and less to taste. They said it was because so many people are using the same sauces and rubs that everything is tasting similar and this would give more weight to the cooking process and how well the cooks prepared they're meats. Is everyone really using the same stuff? I thought most people would be making their own sauces and rubs. Or are there really just a few rubs and sauces that most people are using? What are these magic sauces and rubs that are winning all the medals? We have been working for the last couple of years on our sauces and rubs. Last year we took a 7th in Pork and this year a 8th in Brisket. Are we wasting time with trying to make our own? I'd at least like to try some of these winning rubs & sauces and see how they compare.

Thanks for any input or leads to the spice blends.

Podge
04-08-2013, 02:29 PM
This is the first I've heard of the weight of the tenderness scores being debated/changed...

gmag
04-08-2013, 02:33 PM
I just took the CBJ class this past weekend and they said nothing about the change. The only thing that they said FOR SURE that was changing was not referring to pork as the butt (Boston butt, or any variation therof) anymore and calling it the shoulder instead.

PalmettoSmoke
04-08-2013, 02:56 PM
I use my own sauce for pork (butt, shoulder, whatever you want to call it). For ribs, brisket, and chicken, I use commercially available sauces (I may doctor them a little). As far as rubs go, I buy them most of the time.

The_Kapn
04-08-2013, 03:00 PM
Who was the sanctioning body??

TIM

BrewerDJ
04-08-2013, 04:09 PM
Williepallooza uses the BBQ Brethren Bill of Rights. Which allows the contest organizer to modify almost any part of the rules at their discretion. I had no problem with the modified scoring but I am interested in the idea that most people are using the same rubs and sauces.

MikeJ65
04-08-2013, 04:44 PM
The secret is out. Everyone is using Smokin' Guns Hot and Blue's Hog Original.

Seriously, there are dozens of commercial rubs and sauces that will be used by Grand Champion winners this year. Go out and buy 8-10 rubs, a half dozen sauces, and brisket and pork injections from one of the sites that caters to competitive BBQ. Do comparative testing with your cooking method and continue to develop your recipes.

I'm not saying to never do you own thing, just that you can get 80% of the way there with 20% of the effort by starting with commercial seasonings.

rooftop bbq
04-08-2013, 05:21 PM
using commerical sauces will help you be more consistant. It's hard to make your own sauces and rubs and have them turn out the same each time.

The_Kapn
04-08-2013, 05:26 PM
Williepallooza uses the BBQ Brethren Bill of Rights. Which allows the contest organizer to modify almost any part of the rules at their discretion. I had no problem with the modified scoring but I am interested in the idea that most people are using the same rubs and sauces.

I asked the question, pretty much knowing the answer, so that folks would not freak out and think KCBS had changed the rules 8).

As to it's value, I will leave that to others.

TIM

Southern Home Boy
04-08-2013, 06:11 PM
Don't think I've ever used a commercial sauce or rub in a competition.

roksmith
04-09-2013, 06:00 AM
We did our first couple of contests with our own stuff and didn't score so well. Switched to commercial stuff and our scores improved. (I'm sure some of it was learning to cook better)
We developed our own rub last year and are finally going to our own sauce again this year.
I think it helped trying several commercial products over a few years to see what sort of things the judges liked. Hopefully scores keep getting better this year with the B&C sauce and rub.

PalmettoSmoke
04-09-2013, 06:57 AM
Another thing that I highly recommend: Take the judges class for whichever sanctioning body you are competing in. This will give you great insight in to what they are judging. Our scores went up tremendously after we took the class and judged a couple of contests.

MarleyMan
04-09-2013, 10:15 AM
We make our own rub and buy commercial sauce. Great to have you guys next door again! Hopefully I will come out and compete next year instead of just visiting.

WOOOOOO! :thumb:

(Todd from Ohio)

Muzzlebrake
04-09-2013, 01:46 PM
commercial sauces and rubs have the advantage when it comes to giving you the same product day in and day out. There are no magical combinations, there are plenty that work together and others that don't.

I'm a big fan of the Simply Marvelous/Smoke On Wheels/Blues Hog combo, others will tell you different combos.

As far as the rule change, I'm not sure about the Brethren rules but I think KCBS made a slight change to the weighting of the appearance score to help avoid ties. I hadn't heard about any rule change because the turn ins were tasting too similar.

MarleyMan
04-09-2013, 02:11 PM
FYI all, Williepalooza is not a KCBS comp so it does not follow the same rules/guidelines.

This is a MABA sanctioned contest as far as I know.

Basted moral support guy
04-09-2013, 02:45 PM
The secret is out. Everyone is using Smokin' Guns Hot and Blue's Hog Original.


Well...NOW the secret's out. I guess we'll just have to go back to Lowry's and Heinz 57. :-P

PalmettoSmoke
04-09-2013, 02:45 PM
Well...NOW the secret's out. I guess we'll just have to go back to Lowry's and Heinz 57. :-P

A1 is obviously the winning sauce!

Pete's Endless Summer BBQ
04-09-2013, 02:49 PM
commercial sauces and rubs have the advantage when it comes to giving you the same product day in and day out. There are no magical combinations, there are plenty that work together and others that don't.

I'm a big fan of the Simply Marvelous/Smoke On Wheels/Blues Hog combo, others will tell you different combos.

As far as the rule change, I'm not sure about the Brethren rules but I think KCBS made a slight change to the weighting of the appearance score to help avoid ties. I hadn't heard about any rule change because the turn ins were tasting too similar.

If it is fact that "Turn In's" are all really tasting that much the same, in experienced folks opinion, when you compete then are you trying to taste the same and win on how well you cook your meat, or do you think you should go outside the box with flavor in addition to cooking meat well. I have a line of bbq sauces I sell at farmers markets and also make the same for my catering- we often are trying to blend and come up with new flavors and would love to give them a whirl in the next couple contests we do. With that said I think I do a very good job with the cooking of the meat so don't want to get scored down for perhaps tasting different

Pete's Endless Summer BBQ
04-09-2013, 02:53 PM
commercial sauces and rubs have the advantage when it comes to giving you the same product day in and day out. There are no magical combinations, there are plenty that work together and others that don't.

I'm a big fan of the Simply Marvelous/Smoke On Wheels/Blues Hog combo, others will tell you different combos.

As far as the rule change, I'm not sure about the Brethren rules but I think KCBS made a slight change to the weighting of the appearance score to help avoid ties. I hadn't heard about any rule change because the turn ins were tasting too similar.

perhaps jerk chicken, huli huli chicken or something other then standard

CBQ
04-09-2013, 04:23 PM
They said it was because so many people are using the same sauces and rubs that everything is tasting similar and this would give more weight to the cooking process and how well the cooks prepared they're meats.

So it's less important how it tastes? How you cook it affects the flavor profile. I spent last month working on my chicken, and in several tests we cooked the same ingredients in different ways. Same rub, same sauce.
If I gave you these to try, and didn't tell you they had the same ingredients, you would never ever think that. Since the BBQ Brethren rules allow it, I guess it's "legal" for the organizers to change the scoring, but I don't think it's right.

Are we wasting time with trying to make our own? I'd at least like to try some of these winning rubs & sauces and see how they compare.

Some very good teams make their own. Others buy everything. I would suggest taking a competition class to see what other team use and how they use it. Also, check out the Kansas City BBQ Store (http://www.thekansascitybbqstore.com/). Almost everything they sell is competition grade.

MikeJ65
04-09-2013, 08:49 PM
As far as the rule change, I'm not sure about the Brethren rules but I think KCBS made a slight change to the weighting of the appearance score to help avoid ties. I hadn't heard about any rule change because the turn ins were tasting too similar.

Actually, the KCBS scoring change has not been implemented. It will be rolled out whenever KCBScore is ready. It really doesn't change anything, just gives very slightly higher weight to taste so that ties that would have been broken by the higher taste scores are no longer ties (taste wins by a couple .001ths).

All of my sauces are commercial based (usually mixed or doctored), but I do make several of my own rubs and marinades.

Saw Bones
04-10-2013, 07:24 AM
We use a doctored version of a commercial sauce after using our own. It's very difficult to develop your own sauce and not have it taste like ketchup was used. Our scores improved with the use of commercial products.

QTEX
04-10-2013, 10:09 AM
Saw the sauce wont taste like ketchup if u dont use any. Have a couple of teams using my homemade sauce with good results as am I. Still like to buy and blend stuff too though, work great when you dont have time to make your own.

roksmith
04-10-2013, 11:42 AM
You can use ketchup and still not taste it if it's not your main ingredient :-)

tugbone
04-10-2013, 12:28 PM
We make are own stuff and do ok with it if we cook it right. Timing is the key and flavor profile were you are competing helps also.

spicewine
04-10-2013, 12:43 PM
Guess what we use..........:wink:

Eggspert
04-10-2013, 04:47 PM
I think as competition BBQ cooks we over think things a little. I don't think it matters what sauce or rub you use. As long as it tastes good and is balanced. If you use a great rub, but use too much and it dries the meat out and is too spicy, well then judges are not going to like it. Yes flavor profile is important, but not as important as being a good cook and making well rounded, balanced food. If it tastes good, is cooked well, and looks good you will do well. . . with or without Blues Hog. Teams that win are great cooks, they don't have some secret ingredient or evil potion they put on their Q. When they win, usually it's because they cooked better then everyone else. If you want to win more, cook better! Just my 2 cents!

Eggspert