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woodpelletsmoker
03-30-2013, 05:34 AM
In a standard weber kettle, coal is place in one side, or around wall. There is much excess fresh air bypass coal without being involved in burning. This simply leads to low burning efficiency and waste money on more coal.
Also to prevent grease fire, you can not place food just above the coal. This wastes effective grill size.
http://allchinas.com/weber/firebox1.jpg
http://allchinas.com/weber/firebox2.jpg
Fire basket with Grease prevent Umbrella/Cover
designed for Weber kettle
sitting directly on kettle air inlet
Fresh air pass through coal only
no excess fresh air bypass as original
High burning efficiency
Grease prevent umbrella/cover
no grease fire for safety and healthy
Meat can be put on full area of grill
TYPE I, Dia.10" X Height 12.5"
Ex works $40
Mail cost $40
TYPE II, Dia.8" X Height 10"
Ex works $30
Mail cost $30

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
03-30-2013, 06:04 AM
Hummmmmm. You are trying to fix something that not only is not broken, but is the most popular grill ever designed.

The kettle is primarily a grill, not a smoker. A grill, by definition places very hot coals directly under the meat. Dripping fat and meat juices are exactly what you are looking for. The lid prevents fire from burning up the meat. If you want two heat zones for reverse sear, you just build your fire on one side.

Smoking, however, is another matter. Your idea might have some merit in certain situations. I need to think about it some more.

woodpelletsmoker
03-30-2013, 06:56 AM
For high temperature grilling, you simply set the umbrella aside.
Still the fuel efficiency is higher.

Chairman of China Science Academy once studied in Germany
He redesigned a pressure reduce valve in hydraulics.
the new design is more simple and less pressure lose.
The valve had been living there for 100+ years!
the original valve was already a very simple design.

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
03-30-2013, 07:11 AM
Another thought comes to mind. A grate would be better at the bottom than the plate with small holes, which will easily clog, so the one-touch ash cleaning system can work as intended.

woodpelletsmoker
03-30-2013, 08:17 AM
Another thought comes to mind. A grate would be better at the bottom than the plate with small holes, which will easily clog, so the one-touch ash cleaning system can work as intended.
I will try grate if there is real need for this upgrade.
But If there is a fan, there is no worry about clog

woodpelletsmoker
03-30-2013, 08:19 AM
Next Monday I will post my "PBC", but a fire basket is placed inside a ash box, somewhat like what used in Kamado.

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
03-30-2013, 08:20 AM
I will try grate if there is real need for this upgrade.
But If there is a fan, there is no worry about clog.

I didn't see, nor did you mention a fan?

Even much larger holes, like on a BGE, would be better.

woodpelletsmoker
03-30-2013, 08:23 AM
BBQ controller is encouraged. I want to sell my controller too.
DOG system with fan adapter D for weber @$68 if bought together with fire basket
I drill small holes in purpose, leave space for big holes if buyers want

HeSmellsLikeSmoke
03-30-2013, 10:28 AM
Please disregard all my remarks. It is clear that I have no idea what you are talking about here. The thread title only said " fire basket to upgrade Weber Kettle".

woodpelletsmoker
03-30-2013, 10:53 AM
BBQ controller is optional
Without controller the fire basket works well too.

Just think most do not use any controller on Weber.
But I do sell DOG to some users of Weber

woodpelletsmoker
03-30-2013, 07:23 PM
TYPE II,
Dia.8" X Height 10"
Ex works $30
Mail cost $30

I will give one piece free to my old customer of controller.
The receiver needs to pay shipping cost of $30.

If you have interest, please post picture of your weber kettle and my controller here

woodpelletsmoker
04-01-2013, 05:49 AM
Ceramic pit is heated mainly by radiation. There is less flow of air and in turn meat is more juicy.
In an UDS or Weber, heating is more convention than radiation. More flow of air simply makes meat drier. also the basket or fire grate design makes them draw much more excess fresh air, which makes the convention even stronger.
I know water pan idea.
But my fire basket can draw less air, and less convention, and makes meat less drier.

Toronto
04-12-2013, 07:53 PM
Please disregard all my remarks. It is clear that I have no idea what you are talking about here. The thread title only said " fire basket to upgrade Weber Kettle".

If I am following him correctly this fire basket will turn a Weber kettle into a smoker that uses the entire top grilling surface, I believe other designs on the market limit the usable surface area of the top grill.


Hi Wang,

I think I see a design flaw, there are 3 blades that are used to sweep burnt charcoal and this would prevent the basket from sitting directly over the air inlets:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/outdoor-living/detailpages/weber/B00004RALW-main.jpg

Without the blades theres no way to control air flow manually.

woodpelletsmoker
04-12-2013, 08:33 PM
I thought the three blasdes were used to remove ash?
Where do you put coal on, the lower grate , or on the blabdes
simply throw blades away

My "fire basket" has been tested on UDS for 10 hours yesterday
It is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not test it on Weber yet as I do not have a Weber.
It shall work as I think!

Toronto
04-12-2013, 09:03 PM
The blades have 2 uses, one is to sweep out the ash and the other is to control airflow to the coals. If you are using it as a grill the coals would go on the lower grate, coals fall through when burnt and the blades sweep it out.

Throwing away the blades would ruin the primary purpose of the kettle and make this less appealing to kettle owners. I think if you made cutout's on the bottom of basket it could sit on top of the blades which is ideal for manual airflow control, the basket would turn with the blades.

http://i47.tinypic.com/avg29x.jpg

woodpelletsmoker
04-13-2013, 03:32 AM
My UDS has approved that my fire basket design is great.
It is BETTER than original kettle blades design.
If you use my fire basket, you do not need to keep original Kettle blades.
I do not think cutout works
But you can set my fire basket on the blades and seal surrounding by clay/mud.

woodpelletsmoker
04-13-2013, 03:35 AM
Once again I am going to give away ONE fire basket to owner of Weber kettle.
The receiver needs to have a weber kettle, and one of my controller.
The receiver needs only to pay shippiong cost of $30

woodpelletsmoker
04-13-2013, 04:20 AM
http://allchinas.com/uds/uds14.jpg
burning result of fire basket on UDS.
Please note that I add 1" lining by ceramic clay/mud.
I fired the charcoal before the mud is dry.

http://allchinas.com/uds/uds15.jpg
Fire basket and ash box. All ash does not fall into the ash box.
Ash box also forms an air pass with fire basket.
This way all fresh air pass through charcoal only.
No excess fresh air by-pass to smoker and lower heat efficiency
Also no excess fresh air by-pass, less convention, and more juicy meat.

I burnt this UDS yesterday.
It kept at 105C or 221F for most time. only occassionally 104C.
It burnt just about 1.5 LBS of charcoal

Next step I will add 1" lining around walls and botton by ceramic clay mud, and will wait 2 weeks for clay mud to dry naturally. Then I will fill the smoker with branch/chip/chunks, and then seal it on top by mud. and make 3 holes on mud seal for ventinlation.
Finally will start fire from bottom. I expect to burn for 1 to 2 days and maximum temp 600-800C or 1100F to 1470F. This will transfer clay to low temperature pottery.
By then I will have my kamado!

Toronto
04-13-2013, 09:50 AM
Being that this thread was titled "fire basket to upgrade WEBER KETTLE" I was speaking specifically for kettle use only and not for your version of the PBC.

If I were to remove the three blades as you suggested there would be 3 air inlets which I would no longer have control over:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/outdoor-living/detailpages/weber/B00004RALW-clean.jpg

If I cannot control air flow I cannot control temps manually. If theres no desire on your part to make this work with the Kettle I would suggest deleting this thread to avoid confusion. I thought your design had functional merit but there was a design flaw with the blades being in the way.

Also, you give the option to a Kettle user of having basically half the cooking space(1x 22inch grill) of a UDS for $60, this is in a very good price point to be competitive for what you are offering. There is very little installation for the user if you can find a way for the basket to sit tightly/firmly against the blades. Finally, the user still has a fully functioning grill with the removal of fire basket. To me, that takes this design from good to great.

woodpelletsmoker
04-13-2013, 10:44 AM
I do not have kettel with three blades here in China even though kettle is made in China.
The OEM manufacturers sell to Weber only
If you can give me detailed sizes of kettle and blade, I may find a way.

woodpelletsmoker
04-13-2013, 11:10 AM
http://allchinas.com/uds/webkettlefirebox.jpg
Or I can add a flange on bottom of fire basket,which can sit above the three blades.
The question is height from this "big bottom" to the grill.
I need data of Height and Dia.
I worry whether the height is enough or not

Toronto
04-13-2013, 07:44 PM
Thats a great idea, you can even sit your basket on the lower charcoal grate and just wrap the grate in tin foil to create a flange.

I have my Kettle tucked away in my shed right now but I will get measurements for you(distance from the lower charcoal grate to the higher grill grate) once I break it out for the year. If I had to venture a guess for the distance I would say its about 8-9 inches. The lower charcoal grate is 19 inches in diameter.

A suggestion, could you make the lid of your fire basket upside down? This way it would catch the drippings for easy clean up instead of allowing it to drip all over the kettle.

Toronto
04-13-2013, 07:57 PM
Wrong measurements.

woodpelletsmoker
04-13-2013, 08:32 PM
Thats a great idea, you can even sit your basket on the lower charcoal grate and just wrap the grate in tin foil to create a flange.

I have my Kettle tucked away in my shed right now but I will get measurements for you(distance from the lower charcoal grate to the higher grill grate) once I break it out for the year. If I had to venture a guess for the distance I would say its about 8-9 inches. The lower charcoal grate is 19 inches in diameter.

A suggestion, could you make the lid of your fire basket upside down? This way it would catch the drippings for easy clean up instead of allowing it to drip all over the kettle.

"sit your basket on the lower charcoal grate and just wrap the grate in tin foil to create a flange.", that is really a great idea than making a flange.
If I add metal flange, size and weight will increase and shipping cost will be much higher. Total I expect extra cost $30

Lid Upside down: the grease will still drip to your kettle. I may need to make a pan. But the the pan is just above the fire. if there is grease on the pan, there is still grease fire.

Toronto
04-13-2013, 09:25 PM
Maybe make it a flat surface for the top so people can just buy a disposable pan and use that?

http://disposablekitchen.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/half-size-disposable-aluminum-pans.jpg

Here is a 14.5 inch Smokey Joe grill on top of the blades:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u105/landarc/P3110092.jpg?t=1268365055

As you can see the grill needs to be slightly larger to cover all of the blades and create a seal against the walls of the kettle. This may be a solution if your basket turns out to be too tall to fit with the 19 inch charcoal grate.

jbryanks
04-28-2013, 02:35 PM
You still make ash , firebox and umbrella for UDS, also Ring for hanging meat with skewers and hooks. If so how much ... U.S.

John

landarc
04-28-2013, 03:18 PM
You need a Weber to test it on, it is an intriguing idea. But, you will need to test it in a Weber, as I thing there could be issues. I would prefer not to chuck my OTS (three blades) as it is very useful for shutting the kettle down, and evacuating ash. I would still want that function.

Toronto
04-28-2013, 07:23 PM
You still make ash , firebox and umbrella for UDS, also Ring for hanging meat with skewers and hooks. If so how much ... U.S.

John
One set of fire basket/ash box, air pipe, 6 pcs of 20" skewers, 12 pieces of meat hook
ex-works $159, mailing cost $100.

I think you were looking for this thread, found the info above at the bottom of the first post: http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157696

You need a Weber to test it on, it is an intriguing idea. But, you will need to test it in a Weber, as I thing there could be issues. I would prefer not to chuck my OTS (three blades) as it is very useful for shutting the kettle down, and evacuating ash. I would still want that function.

I decided to take one for the team and took up Wang on his offer to send this for $30. Ill see if I can make something out of tinfoil to make a flange for the basket.

woodpelletsmoker
04-28-2013, 07:42 PM
You still make ash , firebox and umbrella for UDS, also Ring for hanging meat with skewers and hooks. If so how much ... U.S.
John
ash , firebox and umbrella for UDS, 12 pieces of hooks, US$200, free mail.
No ring, no skewer.
You can use two bars like in PBC

woodpelletsmoker
04-28-2013, 07:43 PM
You need a Weber to test it on, it is an intriguing idea. But, you will need to test it in a Weber, as I thing there could be issues. I would prefer not to chuck my OTS (three blades) as it is very useful for shutting the kettle down, and evacuating ash. I would still want that function.
Even though Weber is made in China, I can not buy in China

Toronto
05-16-2013, 04:22 PM
So I got the fire basket in the mail yesterday and my first impression is it is a lot smaller than I thought. I plan to do some ribs on Sunday but I did have some time to play with it a bit. First thing I did was remove the ash sweeper which wasnt hard at all, just wiggled the handle loose and it all came apart. The base of the fire basket is not big enough to cover all three air inlets so I used aluminum tape to seal up two of them and placed the fire basket over the third hole.

http://i40.tinypic.com/bld2x.jpg

Next I made a really crude valve out of tin foil(imagine a T-ball stand), here is the valve shut:

http://i43.tinypic.com/2wggmqv.jpg

Here is the valve open:

http://i41.tinypic.com/10pojz8.jpg

Here is the fire basket installed with the top grill on:

http://i42.tinypic.com/6y17cw.jpg

Ill report back after Sunday with my thoughts on the wGrill as well.

Toronto
05-20-2013, 09:22 AM
So I used the fire basket and the wGrill yesterday and here are my thoughts.

1. The base diameter on the fire basket should be increased to cover all three air inlets.

2. You should probably use a grill for the bottom piece instead of a solid metal sheet with holes drilled in it, the holes got clogged very easily.

3. You should put some kind of heat proof handle on it so its easy to pick up and adjust or clean when its still hot.

So here is how the cook went. I started the day by filling up the charcoal basket and using the blow torch to get 5-6 piece of charcoal lit. The temp got to 200F with the valve in the open position and it just stalled there for the first two hours, I attribute this to the ashes clogging the air holes in the basket. By the third hour the temp had dropped to 180F and I decided to go in and have a look. I removed the meat grill and lifted the lid on the fire basket, sure enough all holes were clogged with ashes. I went and got some oven mitts and picked up the fire basket and poured the contents into my charcoal chimney. The fire basket was extremely hot and the oven mitts only helped a little, having a heat proof handle on the basket would have been great here. Once the basket was emptied and the clogs cleared I put it back over the air inlet, poured back the already lit charcoal I had in my chimney and then placed fresh charcoal over the top to fill it up, replaced the meat grill and closed the lid. I also removed the tin foil valve at this point as it was blocking too much and not allowing air to flow in. With one air inlet completely open the kettle hovered around 250F naturally, I continued the cook for another 3 hours and the ribs were done. The fire basket was much more efficient when the lit coals are on the bottom of the basket instead of the top of it. The tiny holes might have been ok had I used my Dog controller since it would 'force' air through, the only issue I see with this is that hot drippings would go down into the fan since the air inlet is also acts as a drainage point. At this point the fire basket I would say has potential but will need a few revisions before I could recommend it as a solid product.

The wGrill I had issues with, I could not connect to it with an iPhone, Samsung Galaxy S4 or my Acer laptop. I could see wGrill from my laptop but every time i tried to connect it said failed to connect, I made sure to check off "display characters" to ensure I was using the right password= 1234567890123. I could not see the wGrill from the two smartphones that I had available to me during my cook, it simply would not show up even when I refresh the search. Also the inlet for input 1 broke off and fell inside of the unit, I was only able to use input 2 because of this. I used the unit manually by checking the display every half hour.

woodpelletsmoker
05-20-2013, 10:32 AM
1.Indeed I made 2 sizes, you got the smaller one. But I am not sure the bigger one is good or not. I need an exact size of basket

2.This is the very first trial. I drill small holes on botton in purpose. You can drill the holes bigger, say 10 mm to 15 mm.

3. Power Draft will work good with basket. To prevent hot ash falling to fan, you can use my fan+corrugated pipe system

4.I may need to add a handle on basket.

5.wGrill can talk directly to a smart phone, or a computer. I have tested a few pieces myself.
There may be bug on Adhoc or Infra. which must be solved in next version

Toronto
05-20-2013, 11:04 AM
Ill make you a drawing with measurements for an improved design for the basket when I get some time to put some effort into it. I will try enlarging the holes myself to improve air flow as well. I think once you work out all the little issues this fire basket will be a really good product.

Pyle's BBQ
05-20-2013, 05:39 PM
After reading the trial, IMO I would put the "V" in the bottom of the firebox where the vent flanges are. If you want to sell to most Weber users, they will not want to disassemble anything to use it. I am not sure how your wGrill attaches to the firebox, but I think making this easy to install will be one of the biggest selling points.

Toronto
05-20-2013, 06:11 PM
I expressed concerns about the resistance to taking the blades out to Wang earlier in the thread, I think the final version will find some way for it to work with the blades in.

The wGrill has nothing to do with the fire basket, Wang just happened to send both things to me at the same time which is why I lumped them together.

woodpelletsmoker
05-20-2013, 07:04 PM
Thanks all.
V cut buttom will work, but will increase manufacturing cost.
I am thinking to make full Kettle with my basket and power draft.
It will be a big project because that most people do not trust my design.
Indeed my UDS or PBC design with ash box and fire basket works great.
I am using it a couple of times for my self.
But none shows interest in my UDS or fire basket.
UDS is so popular, I guess that most do not think there is any free room to play with.
My big puzzle must be name of "made in China"

gaspipe1
05-21-2013, 10:45 AM
If you are able to work the kinks out I think you may be onto something.. I know a few that would be interested in turning a kettle into a smoker with the ability to utilize the entire 22" grate.

woodpelletsmoker
05-21-2013, 06:11 PM
If you are able to work the kinks out I think you may be onto something.. I know a few that would be interested in turning a kettle into a smoker with the ability to utilize the entire 22" grate.
Just give me the size of diameter and height of firebox.
I will use grate on bottom than drill holes.
I am sure you can easily upgrade a kettle.

Toronto
05-27-2013, 06:07 PM
So I had some time today and got the measurements for you. I used a piece of cardboard to make a template then measured it:

http://i41.tinypic.com/4r6qnl.jpg

So this is my design:

Its basically the same design except larger to cover all the inlets and also three triangle shape cutouts so the basket will "ride" the three blades, this will allow the blades to act a valve. I suggest using a grill instead of a sheet for the bottom but if you must use a sheet then use large holes. For the lid, I have decided I want to use a inexpensive clay saucer that will just sit on top of the basket.

Normal view without clay saucer lid:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2j0gx9j.png

Transparent view without clay saucer lid:

http://i41.tinypic.com/8ximx5.png

Measurements:

http://i42.tinypic.com/31691f9.png

Toronto
05-28-2013, 09:41 AM
I was thinking the top should probably be inverted so theres more airflow:

http://i40.tinypic.com/hwczma.png

Toronto
05-28-2013, 10:28 AM
With a clay saucer lid:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2vjevkk.png

woodpelletsmoker
05-28-2013, 07:55 PM
Indeed I was thinking water pan. But worrying that it will collect grease and may be cause grease fire

Toronto
05-29-2013, 09:58 AM
Maybe ill put the clay saucer on upside down so it doesnt collect any drippings that can cause a grease fire. I figure this will also bring down cost since a lid would not be necessary from your end, purchasing one locally would be more cost effective and they are readily available.