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View Full Version : Garnish, again, still.


ModelMaker
02-15-2013, 11:33 AM
Help, I'm dancing on the horns of a dilemma..Garnish effecting scoring.
I know as well as anyone the printed rule regarding garnish in appearance scores.
I took my CBJ class in '04 and have helped the Iowa BBQ Society in three other training classes with another this March. It has always been my understanding that garnish while not being actually judged, had some effect on overall presentation via either helping frame the entry or detracting from it due to haphazard placement.
At this years Iowa BBQ Society annual banquet there was a judges seminar that was used to discuss all things judging.
We were using examples from BBQ Critic.com to spur discussions and garnish suggestions from the online judges were a hot topic. There was much discussion on the matter from cooks and judges both regarding my type of garnish thinking vs. no matter what it looks like, ignore it thinking.
Now I like to think I'm as fluent in KCBS rules and procedures as anybody, but now am in flux as to how to handle this. Does garnish effect presentation or not? Should I completely ignore your 30 min. putting green box as well as the 6 leaves of curly leaf lettuce plopped in the bottom of the box? Do you want your expertise to count or does shredded lettuce get the same appreciation?
I intend to get some sort of proclamation from the KCBS Rep (Dave Londeen)doing the class in Des Moines next month and will report back here afterwards.
For now I'd like to get your thoughts, cooks and judges both, on the issue.
Does a crappy garnish have the same or no effect as a groomed garnish in presentation scores?
Like I always say, a BBQ JUDGE SHOULD NEVER STOP LEARNING OR ADJUSTING THEIR PROCESS TO BE THE BEST THEY CAN.
Ed

nmayeux
02-15-2013, 11:40 AM
Although it shouldn't, a messy box (if only the garnish part) will affect a score. I would like to say it would not and would try to judge on the meat alone as directed, but also (as a competitor) know to not put anything in the box that I wouldn't want judged.

Podge
02-15-2013, 12:00 PM
Garnish is the 5th catagory.

bbq.tom
02-15-2013, 01:27 PM
My opinion is that sloppy garnish will detract from the presentation of the meat in the box, thereby reducing the overall appearance. Judges are directed to judge on the appearance of the meat ONLY, but in reality I believe that MOST judges will subconsciously score lower if the garnish is sloppy or otherwise overpowers the appearance of the meat (i.e., thighs snuggled down into the parsley so that only a little bit of the thigh actually shows through - I actually see this fairly often!).

It is a "meat" contest NOT a "garnish" contest, but if you don't do garnish well it will probably effect your appearance score.

Podge
02-15-2013, 01:51 PM
Yup!.. I went to a contest once as a visitor and watched judging. I could tell who the newbies were and who the pros were just by looking at the boxes. I knew then, which would probably taste good, and which might taste like lighter fluid.. Unfair of me, but I wonder who else thinks that way (It's a good thing I don't judge)

DawgPhan
02-15-2013, 01:53 PM
Yup!.. I went to a contest once as a visitor and watched judging. I could tell who the newbies were and who the pros were just by looking at the boxes. I knew then, which would probably taste good, and which might taste like lighter fluid.. Unfair of me, but I wonder who else thinks that way (It's a good thing I don't judge)

we'd all be shaking our fist at another judge with the wrong idea.

Fat Freddy
02-15-2013, 02:00 PM
I wish I would have put names to faces or vice versa at the seminar. We enjoyed discussing all the aspects of judging and what Tracy(my wife) myself, and others thought on things how things are judged and how they are perceived.

The one thing we know for a fact from last years scoring is when she built a nice parsley box our appearance scores were higher at the contests. When I was forced to build boxes, green leaf lettuce, our appearance scores were lower. I dont feel that the lettuce looked sloppy at all but the scores were lower. So I feel while garnish, and the type, should not matter I can guarantee our boxes will be parsley boxes made by Tracy.

mobow
02-15-2013, 02:13 PM
Take a picture and stick it on your wall with a thumb tack. Now take the same picture put it in a nice frame and hang it next to the other picture. Which one looks best. keith

Ron_L
02-15-2013, 02:23 PM
I look at garnish in a way similar to what mobow posted. If you took the exact same meat and put it in a box with a level bed of parsley OR lettuce and then put it in a box with parsley or lettuce thrown in, probably covering some of the meat, the neat box will look better.

But, if garnish was eliminated I would be happy with that :-D

OR... I have suggested, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, that each team should be issued four identical squares of astroturf cut to fit the box and they could be recovered after judging, washed and reused. That would give us something to put the meat on to elevate it in the box, but level the playing field for appearance.

Smoke'n Ice
02-15-2013, 04:25 PM
The old adage, people eat with their eyes first is true even in a restaurant. If it looks good, then people are predisposed to believe it taste good. We can affect that by cooking crappy meat but we get the benefit of the doubt at the start.

Big Mike
02-15-2013, 05:42 PM
Garnish does have an affect. I don't think it has to be absolutely perfect, but if it is sloppy, you will notice it in your scores.

The_Kapn
02-15-2013, 05:51 PM
Is there any sanctioning body that uses or allows garnish except KCBS?

TIM

Iso
02-15-2013, 06:06 PM
PNWBA allows the use of garnish.

At the 2012 Washington State Spring BBQ Championship comp I ran it as a no garnish event. The teams were split 50/50 as to the use or no use of garnish based on post-event survey feedback. The 50% that wanted garnish were very vocal about having garnish. More than one comment was made that the lack of garnish negatively impacted the appearance score.

For 2013 we will be allowing garnish.

Slamdunkpro
02-15-2013, 06:20 PM
Is there any sanctioning body that uses or allows garnish except KCBS?

TIM
MABA allows the organizer to choose - garnish or no garnish.


I look at garnish like a frame around a fine oil painting; a matched good looking frame enhances the canvas, a crappy or damaged frame detracts.

Crash
02-15-2013, 06:44 PM
Is there any sanctioning body that uses or allows garnish except KCBS?

TIM

BCS also allows garnish.

http://www.barbequechampionshipseries.org/rules.php

luckyduk
02-15-2013, 07:20 PM
As a cook I hate garnish....at least finding good parsley anyways. With that said I did a contest with no garnish allowed....absolutely hated it, the meat didn't lay in the boxes as well and didn't look as appetizing to me.
I will always vote for garnish as much as I hate it

ModelMaker
02-15-2013, 07:36 PM
MABA allows the organizer to choose - garnish or no garnish.


I look at garnish like a frame around a fine oil painting; a matched good looking frame enhances the canvas, a crappy or damaged frame detracts.

This is exactly how I feel, however according to KCBS rule you cannot judge garnish.......
What's a guy sposed to do?
Ed

Iso
02-15-2013, 07:43 PM
As a cook I hate garnish. It is one more expense & it is time consuming. With arthritis in the hands it is painful to arrange in the boxes.

As a former PNWBA CBJ I didn't care for garnish either. It stuck to the meat and I like to taste meat not parsley. What some cooks didn't understand is that parsley is an aromatic. When it heats up it lets out its oils onto the meat. "Meat tastes like parsley".

TomB
02-16-2013, 03:32 AM
Agree with many of the thoughts above. Anytime you add another element, whether to be judged or not, it ends up being judged. That's the reason for ties and jewelry. For example, if you go to a job interview impeccably dressed but with old worn-out sneakers, you will be judged by your sneakers.

Crash
02-16-2013, 04:13 AM
This may be a whole new topic, but there is a seasoned judge in the SW that has verbally stated that he scores higher for an un-garnished box. In all honesty, it kinda ticked me off.

IMO, if you score up for no greens in the box, you're doing a disservice to the competition cooks. I guess it's a good thing that a majority of KCBS cooks lay down a bed of greens before putting their meat in the box.