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View Full Version : TOY or COY: The New KCBS System...


hogzgonewild
02-12-2013, 11:19 AM
Guys,

This past weekend in Brasstown, we all had a lot of time to hang out and talk BBQ. One thing that came up, was that the KCBS is in the process of creating a system to track teams based on head cooks, and not teams.

Most of us agreed that either way, there are potential problems that could arise, but we also agreed that tracking via Team name is the better option.

Here is a sample scenario that I thought of. I, JT, head up my team called Hogz Gone Wild and K.B. heads up his team called Right On 'Que. This year we have decided to cook some contests together under the Superior Smokers banner. With the new point system, we would have to decide who's Cook number the points would be earned under, and those points that we earned under Superior Smokers would count towards the TOY points for either Right on Que or Hogz Gone Wild, since it's the Cook's #, not the team #.

The other scenario is, where does the board draw the line on who that cook is for that team. If someone shows up for 20 minutes on Friday, and shows up to pick up the awards on Saturday (not that anyone does that :-D)....is it fair that the points are awarded under his head cook number?

Since their are a lot of Board Members who hang out on here, I thought I would get the conversation started. What do you all think?

dmprantz
02-12-2013, 01:51 PM
This was brought up on here once before, a little over a year ago. Long story short, the way I remember it, most people in this forum felt that a team ID just plain old made sense. KCBS's IT consultant agreed as well, but the BOD just didn't want to implement it. I spoke to the BOD during a meeting urging them to listen to their IT professionals when it came to IT issues, but I don't think any of them paid much attention to me, and the pressed on with their "A team is a cook" mentality. Since then it's pretty much been business as usual. I don't think you'll find much discussion on it by members of the board here, but maybe if you communicate directly with the board, you'll get more feedback.

dmp

CivilWarBBQ
02-12-2013, 04:22 PM
Jonathan:

Here's how it works in practice: Currently, the only contests that require the person listed as head cook to actually be at the event is the SAMs Club series. Our team is a case in point, as we listed Johnny as head cook for every event in 2012 even though health issues and business kept him out of the majority of contests we entered. Nobody checks on this - all the organizers care is that somebody acts as rep for the team.

You can list anyone you like as head cook, since KCBS goes by the team name only. The only time the concept of head cook comes into play is when two teams have the same name and KCBS needs to tell who's who. If the spelling of your team name is not identical on all your score sheets, you may have to call the KCBS office and request that they combine the different listings. (This happens to us all the time because our team name is more characters than the ancient MS-DOS based scoring software will accept.)

I defer to Candy and the other BoD members on what the true rules and policies are, but this is how things work out there on the circuit, and I doubt you'll see any change until the long-awaited and little-seen new scoring software finally appears.

Hope that helps!

-Gowan

djqualls
02-13-2013, 10:12 AM
Use a team I'd with multiple cooks acting as head in various contests and let them win TOY money, now lets sit back and watch the legal proceedings fly to determined who gets what of the 10 contests that made up the TOY win..... I agree with KCBS a head cook is the team owner. Everyone else is just members as far as this is concerned. All contests should be like Sam's rules as well on this. In my opinion.

Brew-B-Q
02-13-2013, 11:57 AM
I agree that it should be based on a head cook. Otherwise, a group of teams from various regions could "team up" to make a run at TOY.

CivilWarBBQ
02-13-2013, 03:29 PM
I agree that it should be based on a head cook. Otherwise, a group of teams from various regions could "team up" to make a run at TOY.

It is true that the "head cook" is theoretically the person tracked by KCBS, but unless there is some rule put in place that demands the presence of this person at an event and a system to verify said rule, a consortium such as you describe is entirely possible today.

Slamdunkpro
02-13-2013, 04:39 PM
At MABA we've always tied the team name to the head cook. This year we've assigned each team a unique team # to avoid spelling errors . We still tie the team name to the head cook for administrative reasons.

hogzgonewild
02-14-2013, 07:25 AM
It is true that the "head cook" is theoretically the person tracked by KCBS, but unless there is some rule put in place that demands the presence of this person at an event and a system to verify said rule, a consortium such as you describe is entirely possible today.

From the way I understood it, this was the case. A team couldn't cook under that Head Cook's number if he was not present. Thus, if Johnny couldn't make it, your points wouldn't go toward that #, it would have to go to another number.

DawgPhan
02-14-2013, 07:40 AM
Ah...a solution in search of a problem. Tracking it by team name is fine and honestly makes the most sense. Lots of teams out there competing with multiple team members who might not all be at the contest that weekend.

I also love all the "slippery slope" arguments that have yet to materialize even though we have actually been on the slope for years. NO super regional team shooting for KCBS TOY. No lawsuit, that I am aware off, over how the TOY prize money should be split.

Limiting it to a head cook is an unnecessary limitation that does nothing to improve the current state of the TOY award.

TheJackal
02-14-2013, 08:25 AM
KCBS is a membership organization. If all they care about is the head cook, as a team member, what incentive is there for me to join KCBS?

Kit R
02-14-2013, 10:27 AM
At MABA we've always tied the team name to the head cook. This year we've assigned each team a unique team # to avoid spelling errors . We still tie the team name to the head cook for administrative reasons.

So what MABA team is #666?

Alexa RnQ
02-14-2013, 10:39 AM
If past performance is indeed an accurate predictor of future results, absolutely nothing will be done until the anticipated superteam is actually formed and takes ToY. Then all hell will break loose, complete with forum flamefests, scrambling and finger-pointing.

DawgPhan
02-14-2013, 11:02 AM
and even if a super team won the TOY, would that be such a bad thing? who cares if a single cook wins it or a team of 5 cooks wins it. It still is your 10 best against my 10 best.

Coz
02-14-2013, 04:39 PM
So what MABA team is #666?


I would like that one :biggrin1:

CivilWarBBQ
02-14-2013, 05:14 PM
From the way I understood it, this was the case. A team couldn't cook under that Head Cook's number if he was not present. Thus, if Johnny couldn't make it, your points wouldn't go toward that #, it would have to go to another number.

As I said previously, that's not the case in KCBS today. Doesn't really matter to us as we don't do 30 shows a season, so we have zero shot at TOTY, but there is nothing to stop a team from having an absentee head cook at present.

boogiesnap
02-14-2013, 05:21 PM
and even if a super team won the TOY, would that be such a bad thing? who cares if a single cook wins it or a team of 5 cooks wins it. It still is your 10 best against my 10 best.

i've got no dog in this fight, but i'd say beacuse a super team of 5 cooks can cook like 150 contests in a season. you really think your 10 best out of however many will beat their 10 best out of 150? prolly not.

Alexa RnQ
02-14-2013, 05:47 PM
i've got no dog in this fight, but i'd say beacuse a super team of 5 cooks can cook like 150 contests in a season. you really think your 10 best out of however many will beat their 10 best out of 150? prolly not.
It would not be 10 best out of 150. A team name can only compete in one contest on one day, so you'd have the weekends of the calendar year plus whatever shows have their turn-in day on Sunday or any other weekday (i.e. around July 4th). I suppose with creative scheduling between regions, the number of weekends that have one show with results on Saturday plus one other contest with results on Sunday could be maximized.

While many teams hit 28+ shows per year, farming out dates among superteam members and regions would significantly reduce the wear and tear. It's hard to estimate how much of a factor burnout is until you've done a 28-show season a time or three.

Ford
02-14-2013, 05:48 PM
i've got no dog in this fight, but i'd say beacuse a super team of 5 cooks can cook like 150 contests in a season. you really think your 10 best out of however many will beat their 10 best out of 150? prolly not.

Team can only cook 1 contest on any given day. Ask Myron who gave back a gc.

DawgPhan
02-14-2013, 05:49 PM
i've got no dog in this fight, but i'd say beacuse a super team of 5 cooks can cook like 150 contests in a season. you really think your 10 best out of however many will beat their 10 best out of 150? prolly not.


I dont think that would be the case. A super team would still be only able to cook once per weekend. Maybe twice if there was a sat/sun event on some weekends. I really dont think that they are going to get to 150.

Of course if it was so easy to put together a super team and win TOY, I must wonder why someone hasnt done it yet. Isnt there pretty good prize money for winning TOY?

And even if the super team won 10 grands at 50 team contests in 1 year and won TOY, would that be the worst thing that ever happened?

Brew-B-Q
02-14-2013, 05:55 PM
I would love to see a group of teams take a run at it. Would be fun to watch, especially all of the complaining that would take place if such a team actually did well.

Since the teams have nothing to lose by cooking as frequently as possible, I think that if organized properly it could work. Now if they were to use a more logical approach and average scores from all contests a team cooks, they would be less likely to be competitive. But, KCBS only counts the top 10 for some reason.

I'm not trying to take anything away from past TOY winners - just don't like the dropping of contests.

dmprantz
02-14-2013, 06:13 PM
Team can only cook 1 contest on any given day. Ask Myron who gave back a gc.

I was thinking about that same thing. It wasn't an issue that he was not present for the one where he didn't win GC, at least not publicaly.

dmp

boogiesnap
02-14-2013, 09:11 PM
I dont think that would be the case. A super team would still be only able to cook once per weekend. Maybe twice if there was a sat/sun event on some weekends. I really dont think that they are going to get to 150.

Of course if it was so easy to put together a super team and win TOY, I must wonder why someone hasnt done it yet. Isnt there pretty good prize money for winning TOY?

And even if the super team won 10 grands at 50 team contests in 1 year and won TOY, would that be the worst thing that ever happened?

i don't think it would be a bad thing at all. i think a monopoly in theory is the fear.

boogiesnap
02-14-2013, 09:20 PM
Team can only cook 1 contest on any given day. Ask Myron who gave back a gc.

yeahhh, i gotta stop drinking so much while posting so i can both follow the train of thought AND remember the rules.

alexa, reminds me of when i asked why noone cooks beef ribs at KCBS.....