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rookiedad
01-16-2006, 12:02 AM
i read that meat can be trimmed before arriving at a contest. can i also make sauces and marinades and mix rubs before i get to the contest? is there anything else that could or should be done before arrival. thanks.
phil

Jeff_in_KC
01-16-2006, 08:29 AM
I'd be carefuil about doing anything to your meat before arrival. I THINK you'd be OK but a few folks last year impressed upon me that to avoid any question at all, meat inspectors like to see the meat still in cryovac or other original store packaging.

Anyone with more experience, is this correct?

spicewine
01-16-2006, 08:57 AM
It is perfectly acceptible to trim your meat prior to contest. The rules state that NO seasonings be applied to the meat prior to check in. As for rubs, marinades ect. , you can do what you want with these as long as you don't put them on the meat. I always get my rubs and concoctions together prior to contest.

The_Kapn
01-16-2006, 09:30 AM
To the best of my knowledge, Jay is totally correct.

I guess my question is why?
Prep only takes an hour or so and there seems to be plenty of time.
Of that time, only a few minutes is "trimming" and that is mostly the spares. The rest of the time is injecting, rubbing, etc and you still have to do that after inspection anyway.

If it is in "factory" packaging--"no questions" and meat inspection becomes a formality. We like it that way.

We premix our spices (except Chad's glaze/sauce) also.
Mainly because it is much easier to transport that way.
Also avoids the problem of "forgetting" one or more ingredients--Old Ziemer's MOD :redface:

TIM

kcquer
01-16-2006, 09:49 AM
If it is in "factory" packaging--"no questions" and meat inspection becomes a formality.

Isn't meat inspection really a joke anyway? Sure they check to see if you have one of each that's still in its "original condition" but no one ever checks to see if that is what you actually cook and turn in.
To think that pre-seasoned meats aren't making it to the judges table is laughable. Don't get me wrong, this is something I would never do, I wouldn't want to win that way, but it has to be going on.

BrooklynQ
01-16-2006, 10:07 AM
KC no disrespect intended, and I'm usually the cycnical one in the group and the believer of conspiracy theories, but why do you think it has to be going on?

rookiedad
01-16-2006, 10:12 AM
is there any measures set up to prevent this?
phil

kcquer
01-16-2006, 10:29 AM
why do you think it has to be going on?

Simply because there are NO measures to prevent it, and some people will do anything to win.

spicewine
01-16-2006, 10:31 AM
Tim: As far as pre-prep, I like to get my seasonings on the meat ASAP after the meat is checked in. If you can get that rub on the meat 30 to 60 min. earlier than if you took the time to trim ect., why not??

Besides, it gives you more time to relax and have another Beer---I mean coffee :wink:

BrooklynQ
01-16-2006, 10:32 AM
I'd be surprised if it was to any large extent. Most of the competitors do this with a sense of pride and I think winning by breaking the rules would diminish that pride.

spicewine
01-16-2006, 10:38 AM
Scott: There are always going to be people who " Cheat ". My only hope is that there are enough of us that feel as I do. If you cheat you don't really feel like you have won anything. I have seen some questionable activity as I'm sure most of us who compete regularly have also. If they get caught they risk being banned from competition for a minimum of two years. I only hope that there still is an honor system among the true competetors out there.

Spice

Smoker
01-16-2006, 12:01 PM
I'd be surprised if it was to any large extent. Most of the competitors do this with a sense of pride and I think winning by breaking the rules would diminish that pride.


Rob,

While I do agree with you, the prize money is getting up there and so are the costs of competing. That being said......

rookiedad
01-16-2006, 12:46 PM
Rob,

While I do agree with you, the prize money is getting up there and so are the costs of competing. That being said......


i was just going to say that, money changes everything. while i also believe that the majority of competitors in any event(not only bbq) are on the up and up, without a system in place to prevent such action, there will always be the shadow of a doubt.
phil

BrooklynQ
01-16-2006, 12:49 PM
Well - lets get some answers from some more of the big boys who been on the circuit for years. Jim? Doc? KCpellet?

BBQchef33
01-16-2006, 01:52 PM
The circuit has some of the best people I have ever met, and competitions are based on the honor system...I like to think that 99.9% of us are honorable men/women with integrity. I for one, would hate to win knowing it wasn't on a level playing field and within the rules. I think most competitors feel that way, and if someone doesnt, he has to sleep at night and look in the mirror the next day.

This was discussed to some extent mixed in with this thread...(recreational cooking/pre-rubbing meat)

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13110



Heres Rods responses:
I apologize if this has already been answered correctly, as I didn't read this entire thread. You are absolutely allowed to bring preseasoned meat and/or cooked meat to a contest. Your contest meat is separate. The inspector will only ask to see your competition meat. The organizers, reps, meat inspectors know that folks have parties on Friday night.

While we're on the topic though, let's be honest, if somebody wants to cheat, they can. There are always going to be ways to cheat. If it means that much to people, so be it. After all, they are the ones that have to live with themselves. There are too many good, honest people at barbecue contests to think that cheating is wide spread. I have met so many great folks cooking. Cheating or not, you still have to cook the stuff.

Go out and have a good time. Be friendly to the folks that pass by and be courteous to your neighbors. That's really what it's all about, isn't it?



As for the cheating comments, if I thought I saw someone cheating, I'd ask them about what I saw. If I knew for sure a team was cheating, I'd go find a rep or contest organizer. Although I don't make it a point to look for cheaters at contest, in the 80 or so contests I've cooked, I've never seen anyone doing anything that looked to be against the rules . . . .well, unless you count the guy that was seasoning his meat with his shirt off this past weekend. I don't really think he meant to break the rules, besides others seeing him that way was punishment enough . . . .LOL


So, bottom line.. i doubt it, dont believe it. There may someone out there that thought about some form of cheating, but once they hit the circuit, and see the integrity of the competitors i cant believe it would be done. This is about being the best, and beating the best, and most important, havng fun.. . Why go there if your going to cheat.?

kcquer
01-16-2006, 02:05 PM
OK, so I'm the naive one. There's never been a pro athlete use steroids, never been a nascar too low to the ground or with and oversize fuel tank, never been a dirt track car in the under $3k division with a $10,000 roller cam engine, or a soapbox derby car with a magnet in the nose, or a 15 yr old pitcher in a 10 and under baseball league or a corked bat or misuse of ventilation fans in Minnesota. All just figments of my imagination.

Grow up, pre seasoned or injected meat goes in the box at every contest.

tommykendall
01-16-2006, 02:11 PM
Grow up, pre seasoned or injected meat goes in the box at every contest.

I believe it. I've seen some of Phil's butts with tumor looking things inside of them.

BBQchef33
01-16-2006, 02:12 PM
not denying it.. it maybe so..... maybe likely, and i may be in denial, but hopefully.....

1- They don't win, and realize it was no advantage, or
2 - They win and their conscious stops them from doing it again.

and.. also.. in most cases, theres no single person team, and the TEAM has to be in on the cheat.. not just one person.. I know that my teammates would stomp a mud hole in my a$$, or at least lay a guilt trip on me the size of Pittsburg if i tried to cheat and brought in something pre-done.

Jeff_in_KC
01-16-2006, 02:46 PM
OK, so I'm the naive one. There's never been a pro athlete use steroids, never been a nascar too low to the ground or with and oversize fuel tank, never been a dirt track car in the under $3k division with a $10,000 roller cam engine, or a soapbox derby car with a magnet in the nose, or a 15 yr old pitcher in a 10 and under baseball league or a corked bat or misuse of ventilation fans in Minnesota. All just figments of my imagination.

Grow up, pre seasoned or injected meat goes in the box at every contest.

Yeah, but Scott, professional athletes by and large aren't some of the nicest folks you'd ever wanna meet! :smile: Does it happen? Yeah, I'm sure it does occasionally. Does it happen EVERY contest? I doubt it. Just guessing but I'd say maybe 2 or 3 out of ten.

homebbq
01-16-2006, 03:19 PM
Well, I just completed my 70th contest, so I have done a few... If I have time before I go to a contest, I prep (trim) my ribs and chicken in advance.. Most of the time I do not have this luxury, but its great when I do.

Now on to if there are those that pre-season or inject... I am sure there are (but I have never seen it).. Are they winning the contests? I doubt it...

I've heard comments about a couple of well known cooks that win alot, and I don't believe the comments... Besides, there is plenty of time to get flavor into the meat without having to resort to those tactics..

kcquer
01-16-2006, 03:23 PM
. Besides, there is plenty of time to get flavor into the meat without having to resort to those tactics..

Then why is preseasoned meat against the rules?

homebbq
01-16-2006, 03:26 PM
Then why is preseasoned meat against the rules?

Good question... I personally wouldn't care if they did.

Let me clarify my answers a little here... I am not meaning to seem smug about it...

First, many if not most don't understand enough about the ingredients that they use, to know how they will effect the meat after very long marinate times.. For most ingredients that are used in BBQ, it's not a good idea...

Why does KCBS (or any of the sanctioning bodies for that matter) have that rule? Does it pose an unfair advantage? not necessarily.. Same thing can be said about the cooking media, and especially about the rules about frying and boiling...

jminion
01-16-2006, 08:30 PM
Kevin
I have to agree, it's like these guys with motorhomes have cook Q in there they are turning in. So when was the best Q you've turned in cooked days before and reheated.

Solidkick
01-16-2006, 09:11 PM
Kevin
I have to agree, it's like these guys with motorhomes have cook Q in there they are turning in. So when was the best Q you've turned in cooked days before and reheated.

It does get a little suspicious when you walk over and touch a fire box that's cold, then that team scores in the top 10 in brisket.......at the AR Invitational.....was you with me to experience that, KC?

And Jim makes a good point....though we do cook everything onsite, we do send the product inside the motorhome to have the presentation made up.....I guess we could be acused of turning in something that wasn't cooked that day.....but at least our firebox is hot.....:biggrin:

Jeff_in_KC
01-16-2006, 09:39 PM
Come to think of it, at 2am last year, I felt a cold firebox at one contest... and that team placed high in at least two categories... hmmm. Actually I guess it was closer to 1am and I am pretty sure they did a flat.

smokincracker
01-16-2006, 09:40 PM
Saw a backyard team crisp up chicken skin with a torch once.

I've never felt good about anything I didn't earn my-self honest.
I thought everyone felt the same way? Right

jminion
01-16-2006, 10:45 PM
I know teams that don't start cooking until 3 to 4am and cook hot and fast. When they dial it in they finish quite high. I doesn't mean they are pre cooking meat in this case. I watch a team show up at the Royal, setup and go off to party. We cooked all night in a rain storm, they showed up about 4am start there pits and prep'd meat, brisket went on about 5am, they finished very well. They didn't cheat but what they did worked with the judges.

chad
01-17-2006, 06:16 AM
Tim and I don't light off until 3 a.m. or so...our target is the butts and brisket in the heat at 4 a.m. We cook packers.

We show up with all our meat in cryovac or supermarket packaging...we've also tried to show up at our last few events just as early as they'd let us in the gates so we were ready bright and early for the inspector....plenty of time to trim, season, marinade, etc.

CharlieBeasley
01-17-2006, 06:35 AM
Sorry I have only watched one small contest, but if the people I met at Key largo, Jimmy, Chad, Tim, "DrBBQ Himself Ray", and many others I just spoke to are representative of the BBQ contest, I got the feeling that if one of them caught someone cheating they would get the rep then if it was proved the Team was cheating have the BBQ version of a blanket party! I think the term I remember was "perceptions" are not accepted lightly! For those who cheat may they suffer knowing they are the little people that even with the kings hat will still be last place in their own minds!

homebbq
01-17-2006, 06:38 AM
I know teams that don't start cooking until 3 to 4am and cook hot and fast. When they dial it in they finish quite high.

When I first started competing and was using the Lang 84, I didn't light my fire until 3am.. But, one contest I over slept, and didn't get the cooker lit until 5am... Man I was sweating it that day, luckily it was an FBA event and I had an extra 1/2 hour for each turn-in... I still ended up 3rd overall that day, but I decided at that point I would rather start earlier and hold things, and reduce the risk.. From then on, I started about 1am, and meat in the cooker by 2am. The Lang cooked quick and I could do that, but there is no way I could do it with the FEC100's. With these I try to have meat in the cooker by 12:30am..

Anyway, I think the rules are there as much for guidelines, an aid for those that are new or don't cook that often, as they are to keep someone from cheating. Despite what some may think, the judges know what good bbq is, and they will score accordingly..

Like I said earlier, I personaly don't care if someone tries to pre-season, or pre-inject. Odds are, that person will not do well anyway. I just make sure I do my job...

lunchlady
01-17-2006, 07:01 AM
I've never felt good about anything I didn't earn my-self honest. I thought everyone felt the same way? Right? exactly!IMO, pre-trimming meat is fine, although inspectors do like cryovac. I think any inspector worth their salt is going to know if that particular meat has been pre-seasoned, marinated, or not. Whether or not said meat is actually put in the turn in box, now that is a huge accusation. Honestly folks, and I may be in the naive New England bunch, but...I have NEVER known, or even heard of anyone turning in something they didn't prepare TOTALLY on site. The integrity of your team (and your trophies) is all you have. If people think you cheat, everyone WILL know it. Eventually, all secrets get out, and then, I would even go so far as to say that WE (your peers) would make you PAY, DEARLY. two words .... Raffael Palmeiro ...poor bastardmichelle

homebbq
01-17-2006, 07:12 AM
Hey Michelle, say hi for me to the rest of the lunchmeat folks... Enjoyed meeting your team in Douglas...

lunchlady
01-17-2006, 09:19 AM
Hi Kevin, it was a pleasure. See ya out there....

kcpellethead
01-17-2006, 10:08 AM
This thread is very interesting. There are always going to be folks who think the winners are cheating. It's just part of anything competitive. I've cooked against many of the best teams in the country, and I'm here to tell you that they do not cheat. Plain and simple. These folks are true competitors, and to them, cheating would diminish their success.

There is potential for cheating in any activity. However, to just assume it is there says something about the person making the statement. If I thought I was entering an event where I knew there was cheating going on . . .well, I'd not enter. If I see someone cheating, I'm going to do something about it.

As many of you have already stated, it's perfectly acceptable to trim and wash your meat before you arrive at the contest site. Someone asked what the advantage to this would be. For me, it's important because I usually don't arrive at a contest until around 12:00PM or even later. I want my big cuts seasoned and refrigerated by 2:00PM. Having done this prep work the night before allows me to pull up, prep my meat with minimal set-up and get it put away. Then I can set up camp. Many times I'm by myself until early evening. So, I don't have to find water and trim my meat before I can get it seasoned any put away. I have yet to have any meat inspector question why my meat is not in it's original package.

Go out and have fun folks. That's what it's really all about.

homebbq
01-17-2006, 12:06 PM
I agree with you Rod, I hear it a lot... And there is no way I would think any competitor that competes frequently would begin to risk doing something like that...

For me, as I said I like to do ribs and chicken in advance (when I can). Since I normally arrive before 10am, I usually have no problem getting my larger cuts marinating (coincidently my target is by 2:00pm as well).. The advantage on ribs is to be able to select the best slabs to take with me, rather than live with the surprises out of the cryovac. With chicken, just by how much trimming I do on chicken, the time it saves me at a contest is very worthwhile, especially since I am also usually by myself until evening..

scottyd
01-17-2006, 03:12 PM
I always have had plenty of time, I try to arrive early on fridays by 9am or so. I do like to wash my chicken and trim it before hand. I think all in all we are all honest enough to not warrent cheating. what thrill would it be the win by cheating anyway!

kcquer
01-17-2006, 03:20 PM
If you want to believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny and no one cheats at Q contests feel free. I like to think that women don't poop, doesn't make it so.

Sawdustguy
01-17-2006, 04:01 PM
KCQuer,

I also see no advantage in seasoning ahead of time. My team has only cooked in one event. We were there at 7:00AM Saturday when they start letting teams in. We were set up in an hour and our meat was inspected at 8:30AM. Immediately after having the meat inspected we were trimming and seasoning the meat. We finished that by 9:30AM and the meat went back into the ice chests. The pork and brisket went on the smoker at about 9:30PM giving it 12 hours in the ice chest with the seasonings. There is really no reason to do this ahead of time and there is no advantage to it. I don't see what the big deal is? Most of those who cheat, cheat for a reason and usually that reason is that they can't BBQ worth a damn under normal circumstances. These guys normally don't win and if they do win, it's a fluke. The good teams don't need to cheat. They are great without breaking the rules.

Paola Greg
01-17-2006, 05:11 PM
Cheating: At the Royal this past year, my first, a couple of young blond cuties came by to inspect my meat Friday afternoon. I think they were new to the job. Well, I opened my cooler that had the chicken and ribs in it, they said "great, looks good, thanks" gave me the Ok'd sticker,and started to walk away. I said " wait a minute, you have to look at the brisket and pork too, they are in the other cooler". They said, Oh, OK and inspected them, and went on their way.
Then later the next evening came the awards ceremony, and damn, right before they called the winning team in brisket to the stage they called us up and gave us a big fat check, and a ribbon that'll last forever and that we are proud of.
So, you cheaters go ahead and cheat, you that accuse folks of cheating just give it a try and see how you do, don't matter to me, and watch the winners win.

BrooklynQ
01-17-2006, 06:06 PM
If you want to believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny and no one cheats at Q contests feel free. I like to think that women don't poop, doesn't make it so.

KC - What's behind all this? Who's been cheating you? Didn't your daddy love you enough? Momma? Lay down on the couch and talk to Dr. Rob.

Jeff_in_KC
01-17-2006, 11:09 PM
I would be shocked to hear any proof that cheating is a conmmon occurance in BBQ contests. Are they lax in checking meat? Yeah, definitely so but I'm guessing most people in this hobby are pretty honest folks... at least the one's I've met seem to be. I'd be pretty damned mad if I found out a person I knew was cheating. That's after I got over the initial shock of it.

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